Reworking Sleep+ T3 Boss Stratum Idea
Sun, 01/27/2013 - 23:08
Now, now, Before you start nagging and screaming at me, hear me out. Basically, people have been begging for sleep to return since it was removed. Well, thread is basically to discuss on the best ways to rework sleep, and a new t3 boss stratum to go along with it.
Now, I have two ideas on how to rework it. Also, please note that In both ways, healing is completely removed.
Method 1. The Sleepwalking Theory.
~Here it goes. When sleep is inflicted to an enemy, it has a 50% chance to sleep, and be immobilized, and a 50% chance to sleepwalk. When sleepwalking, the enemy's walking speed is reduced, and the enemy walks and attacks and random directions, as if it has no idea what it is doing, or sleepwalking. However, the downside to this would be whether it is implementable. It would pose a serious challenge for balancing in ld. However, I think it could be done if the player, when sleepwalking, has its visibility reduced severely, perhaps have the player go to a cut screen or such while sleepwalking, and so, the player would not be able to see what it is doing, or where it is going, and so, it does not know what it is really doing, and the cut scene promptly goes away after either the character dies, or after 10 or so seconds (bad with numbers).
Method 2. The Yawn Theory
~If you have ever played the pokemon games, you may know of a move known as "Yawn". What this move does, is uses the attack, lets the opponent attack, use an item, etc, and then it falls asleep after its move. Well, with this method, when inflicted with sleep, the enemy would go through 10 seconds of "drowsiness", where movement speed and attack speed are slowed, and charge time is increased. Then, after the 10 seconds is up, the enemy promptly falls asleep and is completely immobilized for 5 or so seconds, and wakes up after. This method would be much easier to implement, however, especially for ld. This method would allow the player to fend off any attackers and get to a safe area before falling asleep.
Now, for the main attraction, the T3 boss stratum. It will be sleep themed. And thus I give you: The Shrine of Slumber.
Description ( for possible mission version): "Spiral HQ has recently discovered a long lost piece of the clockworks. Dubbed the "Shrine of Slumber", the section of clockworks consists of a wide expanse of strange ruins. Scientists have discovered that the Shrine of Slumber had become stuck in its orbit far from haven perhaps hundreds of years ago, but has suddenly and strangely been jarred from its former resting place. Spiral HQ wants you to go investigate the what lies in these ancient ruins."
Enemies
~Slumber
-Sleep inflicting slumber, bluish in appearance. Normal lumber attacks, but inflicts sleep instead of stun.
~Slooms & Sloombargos
-I think these are self explanatory for the most part. Basic lichen attacks, but inflicts sleep. Slooms join together to form giant Sloombargos.
~Mist Puppy
-Of the red rover variety, except blue, and fires out clouds of gas that inflict sleep and a small amount of damage.
Levels.
~Shrine of Slumber: Lazy Days
The entrance to the Shrine of Slumber, basically bluish colored stone walls with various glyphs carved into the walls here and there. Layout is much like that of an aurora isles, except with many more traps. Mostly slooms and mist puppies appear here, with a room at the end containing mist puppies, slooms, and slumbers.
~Shrine of Slumber: Nap Time
Second floor, larger complex than floor 1. Several arena like rooms that all contain keys to the end room which contains a myriad of traps and mist puppies, slooms, and more slumbers.
~Shrine of Slumber: Not-so-early Birds
Third floor, crawling with slooms and mist puppies. New trap, throws sleep inflicting pillows at the player when triggered. Player must complete severall arena rooms to rescue several Gremlin clockwork workers who fell asleep while working in the Shrine. Each will present a key when rescued to open up the gates leading to a trap infested hallway to the elevator.
~Shrine of Slumber: Beddy-Bye Time
A gauntlet type floor, several arena rooms right after another, with sloombargos in the last room. A myriad of treasure boxes at the end.
~Shrine of Slumber: Rude Awakening
The player enters a large room that has a large, mossy hill in the center. The blue stone walls are now glowing with bright blue runes. The player steps on the party button, and there is a cut scene of the hill in the center lifting up and turning out to be a giant, blue tortomega covered in moss and vines. The Sleepy Tortomega bellows " Who has awaken me from my sweet, sweet slumber?" And thus the fight begins.
~Boss: Sleepy Tortomega
-Stage 1: Old sleepy staggers around the room, swatting at players when they get close, and occasionally shooting out rockets that track the player, like rocket puppies, which can inflict sleep. Slooms spawn around him. All his attacks deal heavy normal and elemental damage. He is weak to normal damage.
-Stage 2: Sleepy goes inside his massive shell and spins around the room, while a couple of sections of his shell are open to attacks and will be glowing blue eyes.
-Stage 3: Sleepy comes out of his shell. Stage 3 is much like stage 1, except Sleepy now fires large rockets that bomb down from the air, like mortafire rockets, and can inflict sleep. More slooms spawn.
-Stage 4: Basically stage 2, except Sleepy fires blue sleep particles as he is spinning around the room.
-Stage 5: Sleepy puts up one last fight, summoning slumbers, and now spams rockets from his cannons and from above, and swats players harder when they are near him.
Once Sleepy is defeated, he falls to the ground, and crumbles.
~Rewards
Token: Shell Scrap: " The piece of the shell of Sleepy the Tortomega. I shines with a brilliant blue."
-45 Shell Scraps: Ruhezeit 5* (Sleep Time in German), looks like suda/triglav/the thunder except pulsates with a bright blue light
-split normal/elemental, low speed, good chance of moderate sleep on second swing and charge
-2 swinger, charge: like that of a troika charge, but creates a large blue glowing rune on the ground
-"One hit with this blade and any monster will be out cold, if not totally obliterated. Just lugging this thing around makes the most alert of knights want to just fall asleep."
Well, there you have it. As you can see, it could use some help in the details department, and I'm not good with reward ideas. If you have any critiques, ideas, or general suggestions for it, feel free to let me know, because Vog knows this idea isn't perfect, but with your help it could be. As for reworking sleep, feel free to suggest ideas for that or discuss it as well. Thanks! :3
~Magnicth
Mon, 01/28/2013 - 07:30
#2
+1
+1
Mon, 01/28/2013 - 07:43
#3
Forced movement is far more interesting and fair than complete immobility. How about delayed activation, forced (but direction is adjustable) movement, no shielding/attacking/etc, with the status being removed prematurely in either phase if non-Sleep damage is taken? A blend.
It's more of an 'exhaustion' or 'confusion' status this way, but it could work.
Mon, 01/28/2013 - 07:55
#4
for confusion status i would
for confusion status i would see that every directional keys are changed with another (diferent every time the status affect)(up = down , down = left , left = right , right = up) and the mouse aim is the oposite than the direction you aim , you are alowed to fire and shield tho, and if your quick enough you might be able to understand what key do what before the status end and bein able to kill something
could also speak of a strip status who make your items drop on the floor like the gunner gremlin , you have to pick them back up to get them back or wait till the end of the status (bug prevention in case something fall in a unreachable area)
Mon, 01/28/2013 - 14:57
#5
Thanks for the support guys!
@Quakeman & Draycos: I quite like the idea of forced movement, with the ability to change directions, but not being able to attack or shielding or using vials (other than remedy perhaps). I also quite like the idea of the confusion status, though, once again, it might be a tad hard to implement. I don't think the strip status is quite like what the statuses in the game are. Poison, fire, stun, shock, freeze, curse, (and sleep) are all afflictions of sorts. While its a very interesting idea, I'm not sure if it would fit as a status per say. Confusion, however, could very well be afflicted like that, and i can see it being afflicted by mostly the same things that inflict stun.
~Magnicth
Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:50
#6
well sleep was removed for 2
well sleep was removed for 2 reason at the very beginign ,
1: player unable to do anything wich is not the point
2: player abusing of sleep to heal themself while another player shieldbump the jelly
i wouldnt mind that sleep bein forcing you to go in a direction and unalow you to use anything till you hit something or the status end or an teamate wake you up like ice that force movement (whitout any control over it) , i dont liek the idea of still shielding or bein able to decide what direction. it would be like car sleeping .. the only thing you know is the crash .. or maybe you wont ever know ... anything else
Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:35
#7
@Quakeman: I see. I'm rather
@Quakeman: I see. I'm rather in favor of the one direction forced movement. But I think while walking in the direction, I think there should still be a reduced movement speed, to go with a sort of drowsiness effect.
Any ideas or critiques for the boss stratum?
~Magnicth
Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:57
#8
not realy for or against ..
not realy for or against .. and i have no opinion to debate why :I
Mon, 01/28/2013 - 19:41
#9
Vote Sleepy Tortomega 2013!
@Quakeman: Awww. Well, the devs SAID they were going to bring back the tortodrones, and the wiki SAYS that sleep will return, so why not make the return of both big by incorporating them together to create a T3 boss stratum, which would be new content. And as I'm sure most would agree with me, this game really needs some new content. I mean, I know I didn't flesh the idea out the best way possible, but it could become really nice end game content if OOO did it right. And besides, who honestly DOESN'T want tortodrones and sleep back?
Vote for Sleepy the Tortomega 2013!
~Magnicth
Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:10
#10
they said it would be back
they said it would be back ... valve also said half life 3 will be made ...
Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:14
#11
Nice ideas :)
+1
Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:18
#12
Normally when a thread has a whole boss and everything that goes with it I would review everything but the train is coming to the station with its chocolate passengers. If you know what I mean.
Anyway, sleep. Again. For the derpbillionth time. What the li-
What? Something about fixing sleep?
"When sleep is inflicted to an enemy, it has a 50% chance to sleep, and be immobilized, and a 50% chance to sleepwalk. When sleepwalking, the enemy's walking speed is reduced, and the enemy walks and attacks and random directions, as if it has no idea what it is doing, or sleepwalking."
Immobility and healing were the two problems with it, the latter being the bigger problem. I see healing is out of the picture, probably tied to a rock at the bottom of a river somewhere, but immobility is still there. Get out of here. No one likes you. Freeze already does that. Hold your solids, before you try to hang yourself, sleep; sleepwalking. I like that. I said to stop trying to kill yourself. Give me that pistol. Now sit down.
Sleepwalking is clever. It does something unique, not controls dependent (like switching motion directions to be opposite), and does something a lot more intelligent than "herp derp damage". We already have fire doing that. My only problem with it is what happens when you start walking into an impassible object like a wall. Would you turn to a random direction and keep sleepwalking or would you keep trying to walk through it until sleep wears off? Would you ricochet like Alchemer boolits should but do not because lazy programming where the angle you hit the wall at has a direct affect on which direction you would be going? Would you completely stop walking if you run into a wall and sit there until it wears off? The yawning version of sleep has two parts as opposed to the single effects of all the other statuses and immediately has the problem of duration. Statuses do not have the exact same durations all the time. If you look at a weapon that can inflict a status it tells you the rate. For example, Agni. Good chance of minor fire. "Good" is the probability while "minor" is the duration and severity (for fire, shock, and maybe freeze thaw and curse, severity increases damage from the status; for poison it increases defense loss for the afflicted). The two parts could be broken so the first takes up the first half or two thirds of the total duration while the second lasts for the rest of the duration. Lockdown is not the balancing point in this game. Equipment imbalances in that minigame come from being imbalanced in the Clockworks and becomes significantly more noticeable when used against players who have reason to be upset when overpowered weapons are used against them or they are using underpowered weapons.
If Tortomega is like Tortodrone we already have a problem. Giant robot turtles. Passive giant robot turtles. All we need are a few of them as teenagers and to mutate them then everything is complete. Old references aside this boss seems too direct. It fights like enemies we already have. I could start writing up something along with some equipment token rewards but there are other things I should be doing. Like sleeping. And not staying up all night from insomnia. The last time I fell asleep before midnight was almost a week ago. Maybe I should get this giant robot turtle to slap me in the face and that would make me sleepy somehow.
Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:41
#13
alchemer ricochet only goes
alchemer ricochet only goes to the left .. FIX THIS AND GIVE RANDOM BOUNCE
Mon, 01/28/2013 - 21:05
#14
Onward! To the Shrine of Slumber!!!
@Quakeman: Oh ye of little faith....I don't blame you...
@Luguiru: I was actually hoping you would stop by this thread, I appreciate and respect your views and opinions very much.
"My only problem with it is what happens when you start walking into an impassible object like a wall."
-Now that I think about it, this is a very good question. I think the best solution to something like this is to have the player act like an alchemer bullet, ricocheting off the wall/impassible object and continuing at a different direction depending on the angle at which the player hits the wall, like you said.
As for the tortomega, I wasn't quite sure what attacks a tortodrone or tortomega would use exactly, so I can get why it seems like other enemies. After doing some searching, I managed to find this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnIgFnz6Y1U . It showcases a large number of tortodrones in superbrawl, and shows their attacks. I imagine the Sleepy Tortomega as a much larger, stronger, and bluer version of this. What I find intriguing is the attack in which it uses its cannons to fire a large number of blue shards onto the ground from above. It is similar to the mortafires or the twins rockets, yet there are far more of them, and are quite different. I think, if reworked and changing its attacks a bit to perhaps have a larger reach (because as you can see in the video, old tortodrone has a very limited range of his normal attack), it could work. Also, making it weak to only normal will usher in more use of the normal damage weapons, giving them a better use once again.
Thanks for the insight Luguiru, I appreciate it. And also, I'm sure ol' Sleepy wouldn't mind putting you to sleep at all. :3
~Magnicth
Mon, 01/28/2013 - 22:14
#15
id say that the player keel
id say that the player keel walking on the wall .. i mean walls is better than spike traps .. also that if you have a little angle in your directiona nd ou hit .. lets sy a crate .. you will just walks and slowly move to the right or left depending of the angle and get into what await you behind the crate
Mon, 01/28/2013 - 22:30
#16
Another thing for sleep before I go back to hiding in your closet. Actually, a couple things. If sleep sticks to the sleepwalking effect and none of the yawn-drowsy-drop stuff.
Being inflicted with shock will wake you up when you spasm. Freeze, fire, poison, stun, and curse do not affect being afflicted with sleep.
Sleepwalking lasts as long as the status. If you are attacked with a direct attack it cuts time off the duration (being hit with more damage takes more duration time away) but indirect attacks will not (statuses except shock, glyphs/bombs excluding Blast, Barrage, and Blast-esque lines, the initial detonation for all shard bombs, the initial detonation for Vaporizers if it hits the sleepwalking target, the initial detonation for Seerus bombs; basically anything that directly damages but excluding after effects). Since all guns and swords have direct attacks neither will have a sleep inflicting weapon but that does not necessarily mean a sleep bomb has to be a Vaporizer. Maybe a small one. Kind of like this, a great support utility but not anywhere near the best for offense. Spike traps count as direct attacks. Status grates only count as direct attacks if they inflict damage but not including damage from the status it may inflict. The status is its own thing. Stand over the grates in the training hall to see what I mean, particularly the freeze and poison ones.
If I feel awake enough tomorrow I can start on that sleep boss. I already have an idea for something that makes sense and has no "herp derp it punches you in the face and you go to sleep" shenanigans. Or rockets of happy sleepy time. Happy dead time.
Tue, 01/29/2013 - 15:12
#17
Vote Sleepy Tortomega 2013!
@Luguiru: Hmm...... I completely agree Luguiru. Makes sense and is quite balanced. I do quite like the idea of that sterilization bomb. Its unlike any other, and could be quite useful in certain stages. (*cough* C42 *cough*) But I get what you mean, direct damage should shorten the length of the affliction, as if what's going on is waking you up.
@Quakeman: Hm.... thats what I originally figured what it would do, but then it seemed a bit too derpy for a status.... It could work either way though, I suppose.
~Magnicth
Wed, 01/30/2013 - 18:31
#18
About sleepwalking...
How will we prevent our precious little drowsy knights from walking right into traps?
Wed, 01/30/2013 - 19:20
#19
Proceeding the explosion...
When you mentioned that sleep can make you sleepwalk and they have reduced speed, that is more likely stun
Wed, 01/30/2013 - 19:29
#20
maybe remedy would be the
maybe remedy would be the only thing usable when sleeping
Thu, 01/31/2013 - 14:54
#21
@Shadow-Fawful: That is
@Shadow-Fawful: That is precisely one of the main dangers of sleepwalking. All the better to try to keep from being inflicted with sleep.
@Benightz: See, stun is a much different status. While stun has it's moments of ohmygoshicantmove, while sleepwalking will be more like "Oh, I'm walking slowly and can't change directions, attack, shield, or use vials." Plus, sleep would last a bit longer, but direct damage will reduce its duration.
@Quakeman: Eh, not quite sure in that one. It could be plausible though.
~Magnicth
Fri, 02/01/2013 - 06:47
#22
why not when sleepwalking
why not when sleepwalking your controlls get messed up :) so you still have "some" controll over your knight ;) (up becomes left, down becomes up...)
would make a funny and or/anoying status :D (anoyingly fun haha)
Fri, 02/01/2013 - 07:27
#23
that would be confusion more
that would be confusion more than sleep walking
@ sleepwaling theory
force the enemy / player to walk straight forward ... say goodbye to your precious health and hello to every spike and bomb traps :3