The following numbers assume the user has maximum bomb charge time reduction (+6), the bomb is H1, and the user is on D29.

Deconstructor line ends at 4* with 151 DPH against neutral targets and 196 against constructs, to which it has a +3 damage bonus against (+21% damage). The family bonus is fairly insubstantial as it is when compared to Nitronome which does 203 under all circumstances; then again HDecon is only a 4*, but the following values assume there is a 5* version to create damage values for:

To scale its neutral damage rate against enemies which it does not have a buff against, let the damage value for 5* Deconstructor ("Obliterator", "Heavier Deconstructor", etc.) be 180 where Nitronome is 203, and the end ratio is based on damage inflicted on a construct to make it more useful against its specialty:

Family bonus at +3:

180(1.21) = 218; 1.07 times Nitronome

Woop de derp, it does a total of 15 more damage against its specialty enemy.

Family bonus at +4:

180(1.28) = 230.4; 1.13 times Nitronome

Hurr. This is still wimpy.

Family bonus at +5:

180(1.35) = 243.05; 1.19 times Nitronome

Not quite, though the damage buff may seem overpowered at this point keep in mind this is supposed to be the next best thing to an elemental standard mechanic bomb against constructs.

Family bonus at +6:

180(1.42) = 255.6; 1.25 times Nitronome

Its base damage is almost 90% of Nitronome and after adding the family bonus comes out with 125% of it; where it lacks against normal enemies it more than makes up for in its specialty, encouraging users to spend to craft this line.

Weapon rebalancing will have math, lots and lots of math; so much math that mathematicians will drool from their nostrils and cry tears of joy through their ears.

For the links I poot a few of whatever was in my "these are well developed and/or helpful" bookmark folder. I will add "Purging the Darkness" to the index.

That derp thread is somewhat entertaining; I smiled a little. "Luguiru has emotions? What sorcery be this?" Hurr.

The unlinked stuff in the index under content for this thread I have notes for and will post later.

My promises have caught up to me.

Something is missing here. There is no math. New bombs need math to prove they are balanced against existing bombs. With pure pierce and inconsistent area of effect within the radius, I need to know how much of that blast area is covered by damaging spikes to properly balance it. I will add it to the list to work on later.

The index will be updated to have several balancing articles. I am not particularly eager to address offense versus defense if it has been difficult to notice, though I will probably get to it eventually; there are only so many things to balance. Unless, of course, a sudden influx of new equipment occurs and I am distracted by running off to craft them. While I am here I may as well post a reference for statuses:

Probability to afflict: Slight Fair Moderate Good
Degree: Weak Minor Moderate Strong
Value (#) 1 2 3 4

May 9, 2012

A sword and/or bomb with the ability to "sterilize" the target, preventing them from inflicting a status (gun is not involved due to balance). "Sterile" status prevents the afflicted from inflicting any status for its duration but does not affect existing afflictions (the knight is already on fire, sterilizing does not cure them because they are already on fire and the afflicted enemy became sterilized after inflicting the fire). The weapon will have fairly low normal damage to balance the status affliction ability, namely it will not pass 3* to keep its radius small. This concept was originally intended for the Cautery line from Brandish, but the cahrge is substantial enough to be overpowered against other Brandish users in Lockdown and dominate Alchemer/Vaporizer users with the series of explosions created by the Brandish charge attack, though a Vaporizer mechanic would grant greater support ability to bombers; the alpha design for this weapon will end as a 3* Vaporizer and may only be obtained through a T3 boss which shall be designed later in this thread. Planning ahead? What does that mean? Keep in mind with the current gate system in the Arcade only four (or five, though this does not last very long) gates each with a different boss than the others. This maintains access to all bosses at all times while offering a variety of player created stratums. The boss is T3 but the bomb will stop at 3* to prevent substantial abuse with the 5* standard radius of other Vaporizers. "Derp, I have the anti-status bomb. Herp, spam it everywhere Brandish/Alchemer/Vaporizer users on the other team are." No. None of that silliness. It will share the same damage values as its 3* Vaporizer counterparts but in normal damage, not that the damage matters except for maybe one or two enemies; Vaporizer blast damage is only dealt to a single space radius around the epicenter. Due to lack of information for the damage values of the 3* Vaporizers I shall use the apparent bar values of three and one third bars at H1 and four and one fourth bars at H10. Vaporizers are used for the status anyway, the tiny blast radius rarely matters for the average bomber. "Sterilization" does not prevent allies from being inflicted by attacks which afflict before the target became sterilized, meaning if a turret fires a projectile before becoming sterile the bullet still has the ability to inflict a status.

The model for the bombs, since a sword would be either underpowered or impractical with the same restrictions set on the bomb and would give more power to the already overused weapon type, follows the Vaporizer: 2* is a sphere with a ring around it, 3* is a cylinder with a ring around it. The existing Vaporizers have three colors, two on the sphere/cylinder and one for the band, as well as a small circle on the ring which shares one of the inner object colors. Instead of having this design for the center, "Sterilizing Vaporizer" and "Sterilizing Vaporizer Mk II" (I know, very creative; hurr) will have a completely white inner shape and the below symbol on the center of the top and assumably bottom (it is assumed the inner shape is the same on both the top and bottom). The ring will be gray, the shape solid white, and the below symbol vibrant red (think firetrucks/ambulances).

Ø

May 18, 2012

I forgot to give this thing damage rates. Seeing as the only 3* Vaporizer mechanic damage values recorded are here, I shall have to base the damage for this off of it:

The following assumes the user is on D14 with maximum charge (+6), no damage buffs, and is using the weapon against a neutral target.

Fiery Vaporizer Mk II:
N(eutral):
57
B(last)R(adius) = 1
C(harge)T(ime) = 3

Sterilizing Vaporizer Mk II:
N:
x
BR = 1
CT = 3

The status on Sterilizer is fairly powerful against status reliant targets; it may lack the offensive abilities of Voltaic or Agni lines, it has utility in supportive tactics. Due to the mechanic for Vaporizer bombs the blast damage is rarely relevant, but to some it is their bread and butter; for those I balance the blast damage on this weapon. Its status sterilizing ability offers users substantial power over Lockdown users who rely on status lines (Brandish, Alchemer, Vaporizer) as strategic advantages, but sterilizing them would cripple this relationship; in order to balance against this its damage shall be 80% of the existing Vaporizer values but retain normal damage where the others have element:

57 (0.8) = 45.6 ~ 46

Keep in mind this blast damage is uncommonly relied upon but is required for this bomb mechanic to function. The Sterilizer shall retain the same basic mechanic as other Vaporizers in terms of radius, duration, and status rate (4/1, good chance of minor) while the blast damage serves as a necessity to the mechanic. It needs to be there even if no one cares.

Before beginning, yes, I know Trojans exist; this is mostly different. Since we have derps and Iops here I will briefly describe Trojans:

Trojans are part of the fiend family. Approximately 180 degrees of their front side is under a permanent shield effect which cannot be removed, disabled, or transferred. The only way to damage them is by their back where a crystal is exposed. Yes, this comes from an enemy in the Legend of Zelda series. No, I do not remember which. Trojans have two attacks: a heavy smash somewhat similar to Troika series charge and a dash in a linear path which pushes knights with it; the dash is often followed by the smash, leaving its back exposed for several seconds. The Trojan AI mechanic often favors attacking knights who stay within the area of their smash or are in their linear path to dash.

The living statues will follow a somewhat similar mechanic, following and chasing knights to kill them; the common goal of most enemies (Menders, Silkwings); unlike Trojans, its defensive mechanic will be completely different. Unlike its rush-to-kill tactic cousin, the living statues will only stalk knights who are facing away from them and resume complete invulnerability when faced. "But Luguiru, how would we kill them them?" It only follows this pattern for ten seconds of stalking, after which it resorts to a twenty second blitzkrieg period during which it chases knights to inflict a similar attack to trojans, also dealing shadow damage; no, it is not a fiend, it deals shadow but is neutral to all damage. Regardless of its vulnerability phase it will always take 10% less damage from everything but shares the same normal movement speed as Trojans while stalking (not the dash speed, when it is not aggressed and scurries around; it looks silly). The model will somewhat resemble the existing statues used to hold down pressure pads but approximately double the size with limbs and a Gran Faust; this shall be part of a T3 special series of floors encountered only in the Clockworks, similar to the Toxilargo before missions came out; the community will be encouraged to actively maintain the stratums rather than dump all the random crystals they have accumulated. To troll the community, the living statue will only be in T3 gremlin stratums. As an abomination of the Underworld summoned by the gremlins to destroy intruding knights but feared by the vulnerable gremlins; gremlins flee when a living statue approaches to keep a safe distance. Back to the model; hopefully, eventually, I will be able to create images.

"Your description is too short for anyone to understand, make it more detailed."

Say there are two knights, Alpha and Beta. They arrive on a sixth stratum gremlin floor. "But I hate T3 gremlins! Whine, whine." This can be an alternative to the same old boring gremlin-construct floors. I can design a special floor layout later, but to refer to an enemy which does not exist and has no content for it would make no sense; basically, there will be a lot of pressure plates involved. In certain pocket areas of the floor where treasure boxes normally hide, one of these suckers is sitting there deactivated. As soon as a knight approaches it (comes within a four space radius) the living statue activates, following the stalk and drop mechanic to follow the knight back to the rest of their team. When it follows for ten seconds consecutively, it switches to an aggressive mechanic beginning with the same dash-smash mechanic as Trojans have, but it only uses this when the blitzkrieg mode begins until a knight dies or twenty seconds of not being damaged. "What happens if there are two knights, does it know which to follow?" It will follow whatever is closest to it in a radial path and prioritize knights near its front face over behind. Attacking it in the back has no advantage over the front, but it has no attack which hits all around it as Trojans do. It can still turn around if it is only being attacked by something behind or another knight is not within range of its smashing attack. Back to the original scenario. Alpha goes to a pocket area and comes within activation range of the living statue, triggering a purple flash from its eye and the hunt begins. Beta is clearing an area on the main path while Alpha is looting, the statue not moving because Alpha is facing it. As soon as Alpha turns away to join Beta, the living statue arises and begins to follow. Alpha uses WASD+Mouse to move, giving them the ability to turn around and face it while still moving away; it stops. "Then why would we want to fight it?" It drops a material needed to make/upgrade Corroding Rust Remnants, a bomb described in this thread. The material is not obtainable through any other means and is a fairly rare drop, meaning it will be a fairly rare weapon which forces users to not only work together to create this stratum but also to collect these materials. The living statue itself is an entirely optional enemy to battle since it only spawns in pocket areas and not battlement areas (party button rooms), though it has fairly high health and defense to give users a challenge in contrast to the crowds of tiny enemies dispatched in only a few hits. Alpha rejoins Beta in a cleared open room ahead, forgetting to keep his face to the living statue to keep it still; it has been following for ten seconds at this point and has begun its blitzkrieg stage. The living statue will resort to its invulnerability phase if a knight is not within six spaces for six consecutive seconds and remain in this state for at least ten seconds; after which if a knight comes within range it will resume normal behavior. Again, this enemy will only spawn at pocket areas where extra treasure boxes may be found in a floor which I have yet to design with many pressure pads and statues involved. Yes, I will create the layout later; the floor shall consist of gremlins, occasional Gun Puppies, and the living statues.

As for what to name these living statues, I have come up with the following:
Golem
Titan
Behemoth

"Oh, no, my greatest fear!"

Stop that silliness.

I will sketch sillier representations for the models for arachnaphobics to have some peace. "You care about us?" No, but it beats having derpbillion threads to change the model immediately after release; may as well get it right the first time. Before beginning on the boss or floor layouts, we shall first review the new enemies.

Yes, each of these are designed for a single status. Yes, they will have different models and not be recolored variants of each other. Yes, they each have different advantages and disadvantages. Yes, the enemies have different defenses and resistances. Yes, I have given a basic idea for each of them in a previous thread. Yes, someone tried to steal it but had no original content to expand and it made them look like an idiot. Stop asking so many questions so we can continue. Unless stated otherwise the bite attack status rate has a good chance of inflicting moderate (4/3), the webs have a moderate chance of inflicting minor (3/2), and the swipes have a fair chance of inflicting weak (2/1):

The fire variant will have quick attacks in rapid succession, meaning its attacks will be the most rapid of the four; its bite has a good chance to inflict strong fire though its average movement speed allows knights the opportunity to evade a flaming death. Its superheated legs have a fair chance to inflict moderate fire, but is able to chain three consecutive swipes. It fires webs directly at knights, which inflicts fire upon contact; the web covers a radius of two and lasts ten seconds. Its web only lasts ten seconds and it may have only one web out at a time. Upon contact with a freeze web, fire spiders become frozen during which will not be able to inflict fire until freed. This spider deals element damage and is susceptible to shadow.

Unlike its hasteful relative, freeze spiders have slow attacks buit deal more damage per hit. They still ahve the same movement as fire spiders but slower attack speed. Its bite has a slightly larger area of effect due to its jaw size, which also has a good chance to inflict strong freeze. It has larger forelegs but still has slower attacks; the swipes also have a larger range but are notably slower than the fire variant. these swipes have a fair chance to inflict moderate freeze and only swings twice per combo. This variant also fires webs but only does so on slow or immobile knights to freeze them; the webs have the same surface area, ten second duration and single web rules as fire. Unlike its impatient fire relative the freeze spider attempts to go around the knight by taking alternative paths to kite or goes to their back if multiple spiders are fighting a single knight. Similar to fire, freeze spiders are only affected by webs of their opposite status; fire webs cause freeze spiders to be lit aflame and flee from battle. This spider deals normal damage and is neutral to all damage.

Similar to all enemies most annoying with shock, shock spiders will have the greatest mobility speed; unlike the fire and freezwe variants, shock is able to place two webs at once which last fifteen seconds each. Its bite has the same average range and rates as freeze. Unlike the other variants, the swipe attack for the shock spider does no damage; instead it pushes the target five cells away. This attack alone does nothing more than annoy the team, but the spider would have already placed shock webs to afflict targets. Its fanges are thickly spiked, piercing through armor and discharging electricity directly into its victims. Its attack speed is between the freeze and fire variantswith the damage per hit of fire (not including fire status damage). Alone it places a web between itself and the target, then attempts to kite to push the knight into the web. These spiders deal pierce damage but are weak to element. When affected by a poison web, shock spiders randomly scatter around the area for ten seconds; during which making contact has a fair chance to inflict weak poison. The webs last longer, each spider can have two webs at once, and their only direct attack is their bite; a tactical foe to be reckoned with.

Of the four, poison has the weakest status; however, the poison spider is potentially the most dangerous. While the others, in especial contrast to freeze, the poison variant is approximately half the size of the others. It also spawns in twos where others would normally spawn a single enemy. There is no diversity branching from the poison variant but there are more enemies to be aware of. They do not have the speed of shock, nor attack speed of fire, nor crushing blows of freeze, but it has larger webs. The others only have a radius of two spaces from the epicenter, but poison ones have a radius of three; keep in mind two spawn where a single of the others would, meaning double thw webs with 150% more coverage. The webs also last ten seconds but the effective rates are increased from the basic 3/2 to 4/2. Poison alone is not too significant of a threat, but the swarms of poison spiders rushing towards a lone knight envenomed is an event to behold. Their bite and swipe follows the same damage rate of fire (without the status, and per hit) but lacks in attack size; the spider is smaller, therefore their bites and swipes cover a smaller range. This does not stop them from going with their flaming brethren to rush the team. Upon entering a shock web, poison spiders polarize and stick together forming large clumps of spasming beings. Poison spiders deal shadow damage but are weak to pierce.

Yes, there will be equipment sets designed after each of the four. Yes, I know what I want to set the stats at. Yes, I will make art for it. No, it will not be available immediately. Yes, I will also make art for the enemies. Yes, spawns will be scattered; this is no "fire only" floor; the spawns will not necessarily be random but normally some of each type will be present in every battlement. Yes, I will design floor layouts and spawn patterns. Yes, it will be with the enemy and equipment art in terms of layout. No, I will not draw exactly what every pixel of the floors will look like; that would make it too easy for Three Rings to add their own touches.

Assuming accumulative defense is 13 (H1) bars and the user is equipping both parts for the total buffs:

Fire:
6.5 bars element, 6.5 bars pierce, 5 bars fire, 2 bars shock & poison, -5 bars freeze, +2 gun and sword speed

Freeze:
7 bars normal, 3 bars shadow, 3 bars pierce, 5 bars freeze, 2 bars shock & poison, -5 bars fire, +4 damage (universal)

Shock:
8 bars pierce, 5 bars normal, 5 bars shock, 2 bars fire & freeze, -5 bars poison, +2 bomb charge, +2 gun speed

Poison:
6 bars shadow, 3.5 bars normal, 3.5 bars element, 5 bars poison, 2 bars fire & freeze, -5 bars shock, +2 damage (universal), +2 gun charge

Will there be weapons and/or shields available from this as well? Maybe; the current equipment will be available at 3* from a boss to be designed later and the recipes at Basil to upgrade. Yes, I am trying to get the community re interested in the Clockworks without beating missions/existing boss rewards to death. No, I am not doing this for personal gain; though I am amongst the Vanaduke spamming junkies. Actually, I could incorporate CRR into this as another reward. Why am I referring to a boss which does not have any content for it yet? I already have a general idea of what it will be and will begin notes for it later; be content with what I have so far for this. These are just the basic enemies.

Yes, the four can harm each other from opposing webs. No, there will be no conrtrol over them preventing "accidental" web firing upon the opposite one because you happen to be near it. Use this to your advantage. Before ending these final notes let it be known that the crippling response to webs is not the same as being afflicted with the status. Using a fire status weapon will not cause a freeze spider to run away as a fire web would, but it still burns from the status. Also, spiders cannot be afflicted with their own respective statuses but are neutral to all other statuses. Unlike the equipment, the spiders do not have an enormous weakness to their opposite status. All four are resistant to the damage they deal except freeze, which is neutral to everything. Further detail of individual behaviors will be expanded later.

Troika and spai-uh-durs (this is not the actual name, it is how I pronounce them while being derp) notes are now up. Tomorrow will have Ionized Salt and the Vanquisher-Leviathan-Fang of Vog balancing.

The following assumes the user has max charge (+6), no damage buffs, the weapons are H1, and the maxed charge time for Ionized Salt is four seconds (Radiant Sun is two with max charge).

N = Neutral to
W = Weak to
R = Resistant to

Salt:
Construct: 40
Slime: 46
Gremlin/Undead:151
Beast/Fiends: 239
Good chance of moderate shock (4/3)

Sun:
Slime/Grelin: 107
Beast/Construct: 179
Undead: 230
Fiend: 273

Salt:
151 damage / 4 seconds = 37.75DPS (N/N)
40 damage / 4 seconds = 10 DPS (N/R)
239 damage / 4 seconds = 59.75 DPS (N/W)

Sun:
179 damage / 2 seconds = 89.5 DPS (W/R)
107 damage / 2 seconds = 53.5 DPS (N/R)
273 damage / 2 seconds = 136.5 DPS (N/W+3)

The jelly bonus on Salt is barely worth mentioning, seeing as its pierce damage lowers the rate significantly; if the charge time of four at max charge is true, it is worse than Big Angry without previously given balancing. Considering Radiant Sun beats Ionized Salt in minimum, maximum and average damage values the only way to fix it without changing one of the split damages to another damage type would be to reduce the charge for Ionized Salt and increase overall damage by approximately 5%. A damage increase would make it similar to Big Angry, although its primary use is supposed to be a neutral version of Radiant Sun in most scenarios. To remedy this, the damage should be changed to pure normal with the jelly bonus and shock status removed, then balanced to have only decent damage in comparison to Radiant Sun without equalizing:

(107 + 174 + 230 + 273) / 4 = 784 / 4 = 196
(107 + 174 + 230) / 4 = 174
(196 + 174) / 2 = 185

With 185 damage per shard (normal only) the Ionized Salt would become the neutral alternative to Radiant Sun, though its damage is still fairly high; lower by 10%:

185 (0.9) = 156.5 ~ 157 per shard

With 157 per shard, the same charge mechanic as Radiant Sun and removal of its split sharing with pierce and shock status this weapon maintains its intended versatility; however, as a normal damage weapon it still has overpowering versatility. With a -6 construct penalty it retains relative proximity with the original mechanic while maintaining utility in general combat. To maintain pierce-normal split damage and keeping enutrality against jellies in spite of their resistance would require approximately +12 jelly bonus, though the maximum is +6; therefore to keep split damage and neutrality to jellies at the same time would be impossible under current mechanics. Damage rates may also be improved by increasing charge time alone from four seconds to two as Radiant Sun has under the same circumstances.

Crystal line bomb mechanic can either snipe distant targets or have multiple shards hit a single target. Increasing its blast radius or shard size would mean further damage reduction. Increasing speed would also decrease damage, but fairly slightly. The shock is already fairly powerful. Adding movement speed while charging would neuter its damage. Doubling its current jelly family bonus would mean even more damage reduction. Do we want it to be a neutral/versatile alternative to Radiant Sun or more area coverage?

If I had power in Three Rings I would end up suspending spam/alternate accounts from the forum and edit out horrible posts around here such as "you are stupid and everything I do is perfect and everything you do is stupid because you are stupid", which is close to context which has occurred in the past. Users should be allowed to give competent suggestions, not spam or harass others because they soiled their diaper. I assume most of the admins are aware of these users but allow the community to deal with them or enjoy watching us eat each other. I suspect the latter.

I have notes for Volcanic Pepperbox, Magnus lines, Rigadoon and Flamberge. Winmillion is in progress. They should be up by tomorrow.

It is poorly executed.

The following assumes the user has no charge, damage, or family resist/vulnerability bonuses on depth 29.

___________________________________________________________________
B = Basic attack
C = Charge attack
B(#) = Accumulative damage from the basic attack after factoring the (#) bullets
C(#) = Accumulative damage from the charge attack after factoring the (#) bullets
___________________________________________________________________

V.Pepper:

B(1): 46
B(6): 276
C(1): 79
C(15): 1185
Slight chance of moderate fire (1/3), normal, charge pushes enemies away, two clip

Blitz:

B(1): 62
B(6): 372
C(1): 121
C(15): 1815
Pierce, two clip

Valiance:

B: 98
C: 236
Normal, charge explodes, three clip

Autogun linesa re designed for rapid fire on a thin cone area of effect with six bullets fired on the basica ttacks in a two clip combo and a waving flurry on charge which fires fifteen bullets. Plague and Blitz lines deal pierce Pepperbox line deals normal with a 1/3 (slight chance of moderate) rate of inflicting fire. Comparing the damage between Blitz and Volcanic Pepperbox, the basic attack of Blitz is 1.3 times that of the Pepperbox and the charge of Blitz is 1.53 times that of the Pepperbox. However, the Pepperbox is more versatile due to its fire and normal damage; but does this counter the significant lack of damage? As it stands under neutral circumstances regarding the fire on Pepperbox, the step child deals about three fourths the damage on the normal attack and two thirds the damage on the charge compared to Blitz. Keep in mind the potential scenarios in play here: six families, each with five status variations (poison, fire, shock, freeze, neutral), meaning thirty potential scenarios. Of these, Blitz is neutral or extra effective against all but ten (jelly and construct variations) while Pepperbox loses its fire against six (fire themed enemies of all families). Due to the rate of fire, the base changes would be around -10% then -7% for normal damage instead of specialization:

Basic(1):
62(0.83) = 51.46 ~ 51
Charge(1):
121(0.83) = 100.43 ~ 100

This is still fairly powerful, lower it by accumulative 20% instead:

Basic(1):
62(0.8) = 46.6 ~ 47
Charge(1):
121(0.8) = 96.8 ~ 97

Compare to current values:
B(1): 46
C(1): 79

The base attack would be barely increased, but the charge raises significantly. What would happen if Pepperbox was raised by 20% from its current values:

B(1): 46(1.2) = 55.2 ~ 55
C(1): 79(1.2) = 94.8 ~ 95

Average these with previous values:

B(1):
(55 + 47) / 2 = 51
C(1)
(100 + 95) / 2 = 97.5 ~ 98

Now to factor in the rapid fire potential:

B:
51(6) = 306
C:
98(15) = 1470

Now to check if it still balances against the previous values:

B:
306(1.2) ≥ 372
367.2 ≥ 372

C:
1470(1.2) ≥ 1815
1764 ≥ 1815

Proportionately the charge is slightly more useful for these values on Pepperbox, but its charge retains the knockback to keep burning enemies at bay while inflicting damage; this may push the target(s) out of range but while cornering excels at keeping a melee target pinned. Due to the time required to prepare the charge attack it can not be abused to permanently keep a target pinned unless two users are alternating the charge, in which case teamwork is being applied. Does this mean the community would learn how to pin a single target and abuse this mechanic? Will switching to Geico save you more on car insurance?

Callahan/Iron Slug
N:
B: 131
C: 296
No strafing, Callahan has a 4/3 (good chance to inflict moderate) rate of stun and pierce damage, Iron Slug deals normal damage, both have a two clip.
Hail Driver
N:
B: 88
C: 213
Element damage, bouncing bullets, two clip, 4/3 (good chance to inflict moderate) rate of freeze, two clip.

Valiance
N:
B: 98
C: 236
Normal damage, three clip, large bullets, charge explodes.

Magnus lines Callahan and Iron Slug have the same damage values but Callahan is pierce and Iron Slug is normal. Assuming the above guns have the same charge time rates of other guns (five seconds standard), more damage is supposed to be balanced against less mobility for the user. Antigua line has significant mobility and quick fire but deals the least damage per bullet against a neutral target. Autogun lines have the highest damage if all bullets hit the same targets but the rapid fire prevents the user from moving at all while firing during the normal and charge attacks. Magnus lines on the other hand are two clip, no strafe guns with average sized bullets designed to deal the most damage per hit, similar to how Big Angry works amongst bombs. Statistically, Autogun (Blitz) lines deal the most damage to a single target but Alchemers are more favorable for the tactical gunner against multiple enemies, utilizing the bouncing bullets to increase damage output using the same amount of time. Imagine a crowd of ten Slags fairly well crowded together. With a Blitz the user can mow down a couple with their charge, but the Alchemer charge will be playing pinball with their (golf) balls and inflicting a status if it is a Magma/Storm/Hail. Does this mean Blitz is useless against multiple enemies? No, stop twisting my words to try to use them against me. Personally, Autoguns are not my style; I need mobility regardless of which weapon I use. As for Magnus lines, Callahan seems to be designed for a quick shot sidearm while revolving but lacks in primary use. What is revolving? Any decent gunner should know this, but I will not explain weapon tactics unless asked to do so in a thread pertaining to the subject. The same goes for anything irrelevant to this thread, such as elephants. Assuming the previously identified guns are being used as primary firearms and valuesa re based on a neutral target:

B:
Valiance: 131 / 98 = 1.33...
Hail: 131 / 88 = 1.602
C:
Valiance: 296 / 236 = ~1.21
Hail: 296 / 213 = ~1.39

Magnus lines are supposed to deal significantly more damage against a single target. Keep in mind primary gunners competent in all gun mechanics is somewhat rare; not as rare as a bomber under the same circumstances due to tactical complexity, but to the average knight guns are simply sidearms or support damage for primarily sword using knights. Does this mean swords are the easiest weapon to figure out? No, but the community regards them as such; my claim to their simplicity is as valid as that of anyone else but the community regards them as such already. "What should we do about Magnus?" Changing its mechanic is out of the question, but a damage increase is definitely in order; not a significantly overpowering buff, perhaps around 20% to start:

B:
131 (1.2) = 157.2 ~ 157
C:
296 (1.2) = 353.2 ~ 353

Damage per clip-wise, this is approximately the same as Valiance; the charge potentially does les due to the area of effect compared to that of Valiance but Magnus is supposed to shine against single targets by nailing them with a solid bullet of sit-down-and-die. It may not have the raw damage of Autogun lines or the utility of Alchemers, but with this damage buff Magnus will make its way to every gunner seeking versatility in combat without relying on a primary sword user to dispatch lone weak enemies.

The index is for threads willing to put in the effort. If anyone wants threads to be added request so in this thread with the link so I may do so; it will be read over before being added because I do not trust everyone with their silly links.

I have notes for the second rebalance on Ionized Salt, axe mechanic, mace mechanic and have been working on flail recently. Halberd/Pike and polearm/quarterstaff have been removed because they would be too unbalanced.