Spiral Knights - Smoke Bomb

Smoke Bomb

32 replies [Last post]

Fri, 06/07/2013 - 11:19

Infernoburner

An idea mainly suited for PvP bombers. Let me say it fast:

A Smoke Bomb is a bomb that does not do damage at all, but instead blocks or blurs enemy players view in it's range for a couple of seconds.
If you didn't clearly get it, here's Klipik's explanation:

-you place the bomb.
-the enemy cannot see anything within the radius of the bomb, themselves or your teammates.
-if you enter the radius, nothing happens to you.
-if the enemy enters the radius, their whole screen becomes blurry and somewhat shadowed.
-in PvE, enemies in the cloud willl either attack in random directions or do not attack at all.
-also in PvE, if you are in the cloud enemies will not aggro on you.

But what about PvE?
I have thought 2 options, either leave it out of there at all by putting this tag over the item:
NOTE: This item can only be used in King Krogmo's Coliseum/PvP/Lockdown.
Or they could walk in the bomb haze and do random attacks in random directions. Monsters with shields can ignore it if shielding correctly, tho.

Because of what it does and how OP it can be mixed with the mist bombs, it has these downsides:

-Recipes must be bought at Sullivan, for double recipe prices.
-Walking speed is comparable to Irontech, Graviton, etc.
-The 2* has 1* bomb range, 3* has a 2* range, 4* a 3* range, and the 5* a 4* range.
-It's lasting time is 1* sec for the 2*, 2 for the 3*, and so on. (Debatable)
-The crafting recipes ALL use 5* mats, and only 5* mats. (Debatable too)

Okay so, how would the bomb and the explosion look?

Explosion: Brown dirt fills the air, making everything blurred/invisible (debatable) for the target. The player and his teammates can clearly see everything, though. As it explodes you hear a hissing sound.

Bomb: A flying-saucer like bomb with holes on the sides. As you upgrade, more holes pop up. It's dark blue and gray.

*Update* Names and Descriptions
2*: Smoke Bomb - A bomb capable of blinding the enemies with smoke coming out of it. Smoke vision visors for you and your team are included!
3*: Blinding Smoke Bomb - A Smoke Bomb upgraded to block the enemies' vision even more.
4*: Coal Smoke Bomb - A knight demonstrating this bomb to Feron randomly dissappeared and was never seen again. Yet that smoke cloud keeps popping up there, hmm...
5*: Snipe Kong Bomb* - Strangers are peaceful, but when it comes to this bomb they run into the battle like wild.

*Special about this bomb is, instead of smoke a big fat spinning floating snipe spawns and covers view of the enemies. The bomb is visible to the user and friendlies as a small snipe on the ground, that farts and leaves behind a brown haze/smoke on the ground similar to haze bombs. After farting it detonates and dissappears, and on high graphics flies away.

Okay, maybe that was too silly and hard to make.

Alternative for the 5*: Cloud Bomb - A bomb that makes the enemies' bodies feel good in soft, white clouds. However, their eyes feel awful. The haze and explosion for this bomb is white now.

Feedback, please!

Fri, 06/07/2013 - 11:34

Diamondshreddie

I quite like this.

I personally can see potential in this idea, though I think you have overthought balance here. The whole point of a bomb that did practically no damage but obscured vision / deterred aggro would be the ability to get it out fast.

In my opinion, the visibility should be almost unseeable, unless you were to stack 2 bombs together. The charge time should be of a nitro, fuse time should be that of an irontech, and the lasting time should expire as soon as you are able to place a third bomb with max CTR. As for radius, I do not believe that it should be that small, but in some aspect i agree, and so I propose this: The bomb radius should be standard of haze bombs, but will fade around the edge, starting from where the previous star-level bomb radius would reach.

I like this suggestion for a few reasons;

1. It is well thought out, and plausible.

2. It adds a new type of utility to the arsenal of Spiral Knights

3. It adds a new classification of bomb for us party supporters, and that I like.

Fri, 06/07/2013 - 11:57

Little-Juances

But is it possible to block your enemy but not your team? And if they won't see it, how'd you know it's active?

Fri, 06/07/2013 - 12:08

Zeddy

It could simply have the same effect in PvE as in PvP: Make your enemies lose sight of you if you are inside of it. For the sake of not making it overpowered, you will only be invisible if you were inside of the bomb's radius at the time of detonation. Hitting an enemy or walking outside of the bomb's radius would make you visible again.

@Little-Juances
It could just look like a regular haze bomb for friendlies, not obscuring players.

Fri, 06/07/2013 - 13:19

Coelydragon

Unless you have multiple people spamming (not likely) a recon's invisibility should be good enough considering that such bomb would not be allowed to last long.

Now, I've read Fehzor's thread on the brick-breaking bomb and i believe we can combine these. I'm thinking of a small 2* bomb with 2/3 the charge time of Nitronome. Weak normal and/or shadow damage upon detonation but it releases 3 "radiation" waves (black pulsing ripple effect) that stuns (which reduces accuracy) and possibly de-aggros nearby enemies (blindness?) while also breaking blocks, bushes, etc. For a 3* version the last "radiation wave can linger around for a few seconds. In PvP it should boost recons' cloaks and break enemies' cloaks.

Fri, 06/07/2013 - 17:47

Hexzyle

In PvP it should boost recons' cloaks and break enemies' cloaks.

Not break, but make enemy cloaks do that holographic thing that you see when you cloak yourself.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 00:02

Infernoburner

Derpuraptor strikes back

Some responses!

Diamondshreddie:
In my opinion, the visibility should be almost unseeable, unless you were to stack 2 bombs together. The charge time should be of a nitro, fuse time should be that of an irontech, and the lasting time should expire as soon as you are able to place a third bomb with max CTR
Hmm, good point and good stats. If you ask me those stats are okay. Not sure about everyone else tough, so for the readers, what do you think about this?

L-Juances:
But is it possible to block your enemy but not your team?
Yes, you can block their view inside the bomb. The friendlies don't see anything that would blind them.

And if they won't see it, how'd you know it's active?
Heh, you always find those little little points people forget about. I think a brown haze (Identical to the Haze Bombs) would be enough.

Zeddy:
It could simply have the same effect in PvE as in PvP
You know that would be if-I'm-correct exactly as sleep, except without healing? I'd rather have the monsters do random actions in random directions, then.

Coelydragon:
Now, I've read Fehzor's thread on the brick-breaking bomb and i believe we can combine these. I'm thinking of a small 2* bomb with 2/3 the charge time of Nitronome. Weak normal and/or shadow damage upon detonation but it releases 3 "radiation" waves (black pulsing ripple effect) that stuns (which reduces accuracy) and possibly de-aggros nearby enemies (blindness?) while also breaking blocks, bushes, etc. For a 3* version the last "radiation wave can linger around for a few seconds. In PvP it should boost recons' cloaks and break enemies' cloaks

I think that's destroying the whole point of my bomb, tough. If that idea was to be accepted by OOO, I'd rather have shock on it than stun, it just seems more fitting to these "radiation waves".

Hex reffering to coely's post:
In PvP it should boost recons' cloaks and break enemies' cloaks.

Not break, but make enemy cloaks do that holographic thing that you see when you cloak yourself.
I agree on that point.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 01:08

Klipik-Forum

So let me get this straight

As of now: the bomb is placed and creates a smoke cloud, and when enemies enter the smoke cloud they cannot see inside the cloud.

I think that's what you said.

I think it should be:

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 04:20

Zeddy

@Infernoburner

"You know that would be if-I'm-correct exactly as sleep, except without healing? I'd rather have the monsters do random actions in random directions, then."

Effectively much the same, but some enemies will move about at random and try to find you again. Try losing aggro from an enemy using the dash, you'll see.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 05:48

Infernoburner

Derpuraptor strikes back

@Klipik
Actually, I wanted it to work the way you described it.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 07:48

#10

Klipik-Forum

oh.

+1 then :D

Mon, 06/10/2013 - 12:49

#11

Infernoburner

Derpuraptor strikes back

Dat update.

Mon, 06/10/2013 - 14:45

#12

Coelydragon

Umm...

Great idea but I doubt it'll happen seeing as OOO doesn't want bombers to be anything but bombers. They changed the old RSS because it was like a gun and they're rejecting a lot of similar ideas because they don't want bombers to become engineers. The tesla bomb idea I'm near 100% sure will not go because that's basically building a tripwire, not a bomb. And the ideas of mortars? Bombers as engineers again. It's not going to work though it's an interesting idea.

Mon, 06/10/2013 - 15:19

#13

Klipik-Forum

@Coely

Mortars you say? :D

I think smoke bombs fit nicely into the category of "bombs", or at least as well as the Mist lines do.

Mon, 06/10/2013 - 15:29

#14

Coelydragon

@Klipik

I saw a different thread that said the same thing as your link. Building mortars and aiming where it'll fire.

The mist bombs classify because they leave a chemical cloud that induces a status. Like a smoke bomb you might say. However, adding this bomb introduces a new concept that's not a status: confusion. The fact that it de-aggroes or at least takes away their accuracy is basically giving Stagger Storm a buff of de-aggravation. Think of it in comparison to Mad Bomber vs Chaos. It just makes one obsolete. Stun reduces accuracy, Swagg-- I mean Stagger Storm, and reduced accuracy with a chance to de-aggro, smoke bomb, is like Bomb CTR Med and Universal CTR Med. The only way this will work is to add the status confusion and set it apart from stun, much like shock is different from fire.

Mon, 06/10/2013 - 17:10

#15

Klipik-Forum

I don't think "confusion" fits well into the SK style - it is to some extent a game about precision, and taking away the control of your character harshly goes against that. "blindness" works much better, in the sense of obscurity rather than total blindness. That's essentially what this is, after all - a haze bomb that inflicts a new status, blindness.

Mon, 06/10/2013 - 22:06

#16

Hexzyle

I think that if someone is in a smoke cloud in PvE, they just lose all threat.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 09:50

#17

Coelydragon

I do believe you're wrong...

Blast bombs are for dps pure and simple. Shard Bombs are for specific-type dps and advanced techniques (which I have yet to master). Electron and Graviton are good for damage too, though they do have the extra sucking mechanism before the blast. Haze bombs deal decent damage, though not enough to seriously use for dps, but the haze they make seems based off of smoke/tear gas bombs. They inflict a status as a side-effect. However, they only deal statuses (stati?). Your bomb is not dealing a real status. It is used to create a sort of non-physical defense shield for players to escape to.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 18:05

#18

Klipik-Forum

@Inferno

It was because they didn't like how people were using Shard Bombs to OHKO monsters by placing it directly underneath them, instead of for range and area of effect like they were supposed to. So they added "invincitinks" and made it impossible to OHKO enemies with the new bomb.

And Blindness is a status if we make it a status.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 20:40

#19

Coelydragon

Good, but...

Blindness could offend someone. Got another name?

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 05:15

#20

Infernoburner

Derpuraptor strikes back

We could re-do sleep to make them fight, walk, etc. randomly while sleeping as a sign of nightmares or something?

Fri, 06/14/2013 - 18:55

#21

Hexzyle

@Coelydragon

How could it offend someone if they can't read it?

Fri, 06/14/2013 - 20:16

#22

Klipik-Forum

@Hex

People have friends.

Sat, 06/15/2013 - 09:20

#23

Dendios

@Coelydragon:

Sightlessness sounds better?

Sat, 06/15/2013 - 11:27

#24

Skyguarder

What type is the bomb? Is it a shadow bomb? Also, this bomb will "confuse" players, right?

Sat, 06/15/2013 - 13:08

#25

Coelydragon

@xxdragneel
Same difference really. Besides, all of the statuses (stati?) are short. Fire. Freeze. Shock. Curse. Sightlessness?

@Infernoburner
Creating an entirely new status will be complicated. You'll need to make a gun and sword or two, along with armors that resist it. Then there's the addition of monsters that inflict it. Oh, and vials. In short, this bomb would be best off utilizing an effect rather than a status. SK is built so there is only one true effect: knockback. So repetitive knockback could effectively de-aggro a monster. However, there is an unintended effect that exists that can be utilised on a weapon to create your confusion effect. It's (don't laugh) lag. A high enough animation will ultimately mess up players in PVP causing them to move around and attack randomly. Of course this is a somewhat viable straategy if you get Polaris spammers and one person to directly attack the now-lagging-horribly player. But that's another topic.

Sat, 06/15/2013 - 13:47

#26

Klipik-Forum

"Blind"

or maybe, "smoke" or "dark"?

@Sky: I don't think it does any damage. And yes.

Sun, 06/16/2013 - 03:49

#27

Infernoburner

Derpuraptor strikes back

There's no real need for any status here, really - look at Nitronome's explosion. It would be about the same, except the user and their party could have it semi-transparent or visible as a mist bomb. @Sky It doesn't do damage at all, so I guess it's normal.

Sun, 06/16/2013 - 06:08

#28

The-Mighty-Potato

I don't see how this can work.

What about devilites? You can't see where they're going to chuck? You might walk into their staple or chair.

What about Giant Lichens? They place their spikes almost everywhere around them.

Howcome you can see but monsters can't? Players might get annoyed that it's harder to see.

Im sorry but iI can't see how this would be any use, and I don't know why you would want to spend CR and CE upgrading it when it literally does nothing. Also wastes a weapons slot.

-1

Sun, 06/16/2013 - 15:05

#29

Klipik-Forum

@TMP, that's the whole point ¬.¬

Half the situations you described would only occur if an enemy induces blindness on you. Which, so far has not been addressed, but it would still be ok. Do you complain about not being able to move while frozen? No. Then you wouldn't complain about not being able to see while blinded.

@Inferno - it is necessary to have a status, because the entire screen of the player becomes blurry/clouded, not just the bombed part.

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 03:16

#30

Infernoburner

Derpuraptor strikes back

Oh damned confusement. I didn't notice the blurry part. Well, I wanted it to be Nitronome Style tbh, but I guess the idea you made could be okay too.

How about we have a boss, that's a huge squid in a huge pool. His primary attacks are slapping people with it's tentacles and spitting blindness-causing ink on player/player's screen? During this second attack a bunch of the tentacles would be on the edges of the pool, and if enough damage is dealt, a tentacle dies off and cannot be used. He has, I don't know, 4 of them?

Or how about a blindness causing Chromalisk?

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 07:21

#31

The-Mighty-Potato

*cough

*cough cough*

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?um=1&client=safari&sa=N&rls=en&hl=en&biw=...

Sorry, I had something in my throat.

If anyone knows where that's from, kudos to you ;D

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 09:09

#32

Infernoburner

Derpuraptor strikes back

Yup, I got inspired (stole everything without permission) by the Bloopers. And that one is from Super Mario Sunshine.

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