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Warp-Master makes health revives and Sparks of Life work together

21 replies [Last post]
Mon, 08/12/2013 - 07:22
Warp-Master's picture
Warp-Master

All right, let's recap what people around here seem to think of the new revive system:

What Vanguards seem to think:
Vanguards hated having to waste their health on PUGers who would just die over and over again. They like the new revive system because it lets them use Sparks (which they never use, because they almost never die) to revive people instead of energy.

What noobs seem to think:
Noobs can't hold on to Sparks, because they tend to die more than once per depth on Advanced. They don't like the new system because they have to use valuable Sparks (instead of "free" mist) to revive, nobody (outside of the occasional, generous Vanguard) wants to revive them because they don't want to waste their Sparks, and the reduced payout for Normal doesn't make it viable as anything but a tutorial.

What soloists seem to think:
Soloists can get one free revive per depth where they couldn't before, so they stand to benefit from the new system. They like the existence of Sparks because they can revive themselves without mist.

What partiers seem to think:
Partiers hate having to use rare Sparks to revive their fellow members when they've got stacks of health, and stacks of pills to replenish that health. They also hate having to leave party members behind, denying them a good chunk of their own loot due to a lack of Sparks (or saving them for their own use) when before they could just revive them with health, pop a Health Capsule, and keep on rolling.

What Doctorspacebar thinks:
Three Rings' stated reason for the removal of health revives (diluted party health leading to repeated one-shots) is invalid because in nearly all cases the reduced health doesn't mean anything (if you're not at full health you're going to get one-shotted anyway) while the increased DPS of having more players on the battlefield does.

Wot I think:
I think that health revives were a critical part of the teamwork-related aspect of the game, and that Doctorspacebar is right. I've also inferred that Emergency Revive is intended to replace health revives. I'm well aware that mist is never coming back, and the existence of Sparks is therefore necessary.

Now, to reconcile all this:

BRING HEALTH REVIVES BACK. They never should have been taken out. To remove their one exploitable aspect the lost heat should either be returned to the knight who lost it or lost entirely. This leaves the issue of what to do with Emergency Revive. We can't just leave it the way it is now, as that would make revives far too cheap. However, removing them completely means that soloists lose their benefit of one free revive per depth. The obvious solution is to only give the player an Emergency Revive when playing solo; "playing solo" would be defined in a similar way to the system preventing warping directly to Basil for recipes, where the solo player would be given an emergency revive after spending an entire depth without party members. To prevent people from joining and immediately leaving to deny people revives, a timer could be employed so that only players interested in actually helping will be considered for the purposes of finding whether a player was "playing solo". Sparks would still be present, and work the same as they do now, directly replacing the role of energy revives. The drop rate of Sparks may or may not need to be dropped; I leave this to the discretion of Three Rings. Additional tweaks may be required to prevent noobs from being able to waltz through Elite, but I think that the increased difficulty of Elite itself will prevent that sort of thing from becoming too much of an issue.

What Vanguards get from this:
Vanguards can still revive PUGers with Sparks they don't need, so they aren't affected by this.

What noobs get from this:
Noobs can help each other to pull themselves through a difficult level with health revives when they couldn't before, but will still be dying tons (and bleeding energy to avoid wiping) if they try to do a Shadow Lair or a string of Elite levels. They also have the option to use a Spark when needed.

What partiers get from this:
They don't have to feel bad about "wasting" a Spark on someone else or else leaving a party member behind so they miss out on a big chunk of loot. They also have the option of strategically using Sparks when they need the offensive buff of an Energy Blast.

What soloists get from this:
For soloists, this effectively changes nothing.

So, that's it. Health revives have no reason to not be present.

Mon, 08/12/2013 - 07:30
#1
Remove-The-Forge's picture
Remove-The-Forge
A request to remove one thing

A request to remove one thing from July 30th patch without any reason to object?
This is how you request.

+1

Mon, 08/12/2013 - 09:03
#2
Warp-Master's picture
Warp-Master
I think this thread's been

I think this thread's been jinxed....

Anyway, a friend of mine suggested having Health Capsules be used to revive, with the revived player gaining either half or all the health the capsule provides. Thoughts?

Mon, 08/12/2013 - 09:15
#3
Thunder-The-Bright's picture
Thunder-The-Bright
erm, nope.

1 engame players think what you think they think (oh god) only when the dead player in question dies in stupid ways (going reckessly to attack, go into hazards...) for 2 times n one floor. which means, he does it on propouse. that's only for the second part.

Vanguards hated having to waste their health on PUGers who would just die over and over again.

% of revives I have refused to do for this reason: about 1%. no, really, at that point, you stopped reviving becuase you knew he/she would die again. those are few. Vanguards loved health sharing, becuase 90% of vanguards don't do random parties. reviving friends and having benefits for it was amazing.

2 it's not only noobs that are with no sparks. all the people who saw themselves flooded with SoLs used them becuase they seemed to never stop coming. in fact they are, but the rate is a bit low. so they remain without SoLs. they realize the importance of sparks when they don't have them. it's a common case I suppose. the ones who already do know the value of sparks are either trolls or just can't stop doing stupid things. but that is back to point 1. normal payout is still high. sure, rarities drop less, but enemies are weak and elevators are free. that's high profit.

3 I can agree with the solists part. as much as they were trained by the old system not to die, one free revive per level is enough for them.

4 for partiers, it's the same things as vanguards. if one keeps dying for stupid reasons, you don't revive him anymore. it's commone sense since you are 4*. also, again, if they join random parties, they don't give a () about the other's loot.

5 old system: if you don't revive a party member, you choose not to give your health to someone, in exchange of more DPS. why do you do that? because you know that DPS would not increase, and so your trade would be a scam. new system: same, but you now trade sparks, which: a) drop a lot, so they are technically cheap, b) if you don't have sparks cost a lot. if you revive you have a lot of sparks, but you do only if DPS is actually increased. if you don't have sparks, well, you don't revive.

6
I've also inferred that Emergency Revive is intended to replace health revives. I'm well aware that mist is never coming back, and the existence of Sparks is therefore necessary.

I don't understand this. elevator cost is replaced with the forge, and the cost of revives has just been changed to give to more people the possiblilty to revive many times, even if they still cost quite a bit, so the expense remains. it's just a note, it has nothing to do with the suggestions.

7
To remove their one exploitable aspect the lost heat should either be returned to the knight who lost it or lost entirely.

erm, one? where's alt dragging? as much as "Alt draggers are doing nothing NEARLY as illegal or immoral as real world item traders.", is still a way to speed up the profit curve over the learning curve. which is bad.

ERs to solists will make partying way more difficult. with what you have written, vanguards will be likely to solo more, leaving parties to noobs/unexperienced players that will die more, and so health sharing will be useless. health sharing works if there is one with lots of health and that dies not-so-often. but with that systme, those ones that die no so often will solo due to ER.

8
Vanguards can still revive PUGers with Sparks they don't need, so they aren't affected by this.

Vanguards hated having to waste their health on PUGers who would just die over and over again.

with health sharing revives, you preferred much much more to give people health instead of energy. it's still true. besides, if they hated using health to revive PUG that died, how can you say that they will revive them with sparks? ok we are vanguards, but if one has not sparks, it must suck a lot. also, he has already died twice in a floor with the current system, while it has diluited health and died many times with health sharing.

9 Noobs can help each other to pull themselves through a difficult level
help each other

noobs= no sparks= no help. "I have only 4 sparks, revive me!" "but I have 3" "what do we do now?" and that's because they die a lot. see point 7.

10
They don't have to feel bad about "wasting" a Spark on someone else or else leaving a party member behind so they miss out on a big chunk of loot.

see final part of point 4.

11 Health revives have no reason to not be present.
alt draggers and noobs agree with you. problem?

current system rewards you if you die less and punishes you if you die more. that's a good thing. that's a very good thing. health sharing revive punished everyone if only one team member was doing wrong, becuase it leeched health from everybody until they decided to stop, which was at the 5-6th revive. and then no loot sharing cares about the activity you have in the party. if you don't revive, eventually you get no loot. and so you would more like to start over, which will get you some experience, which will help you die less.
I know my resoning is flawed, so counter me.

EDIT: for health capsule revive, same. also, you get a way to share pills, which is what OOO has cutted with the instanced loot. so, no.

Mon, 08/12/2013 - 10:47
#4
Warp-Master's picture
Warp-Master
@Thunder-The-Bright

I'm finding it a bit hard to counter you because your lack of formatting and grammar makes your post rather difficult to read. I'll try, though.

1 engame players think what you think they think (oh god) only when the dead player in question dies in stupid ways (going reckessly to attack, go into hazards...) for 2 times n one floor. which means, he does it on propouse. that's only for the second part.

Vanguards hated having to waste their health on PUGers who would just die over and over again.

% of revives I have refused to do for this reason: about 1%. no, really, at that point, you stopped reviving becuase you knew he/she would die again. those are few. Vanguards loved health sharing, becuase 90% of vanguards don't do random parties. reviving friends and having benefits for it was amazing.

Doesn't this just prove my point? Health sharing lets you help your friends more, helping your friends is good, therefore health sharing is good. Also, I thought it was self-evident that you should stop reviving people who die in obviously stupid/intentional ways; my "what Vanguards think" was made with the assumption of a Vanguard running a PUG for fun and ending up with people who are less experienced (and therefore dying more often) than they are, but not to the point of dying for stupid reasons.

it's not only noobs that are with no sparks. all the people who saw themselves flooded with SoLs used them becuase they seemed to never stop coming. in fact they are, but the rate is a bit low. so they remain without SoLs. they realize the importance of sparks when they don't have them. it's a common case I suppose. the ones who already do know the value of sparks are either trolls or just can't stop doing stupid things. but that is back to point 1. normal payout is still high. sure, rarities drop less, but enemies are weak and elevators are free. that's high profit.

The no spark bit seems beyond me at the moment; will update when I figure out what the heck you're talking about here. Normal mode is neutered for advancement because of the reduced Rarity payout. How do you craft things? Rarities. How do you level your weapons? Rarities. It's really only high profit if you're looking for crowns and minerals.

3 I can agree with the solists part. as much as they were trained by the old system not to die, one free revive per level is enough for them.

4 for partiers, it's the same things as vanguards. if one keeps dying for stupid reasons, you don't revive him anymore. it's commone sense since you are 4*. also, again, if they join random parties, they don't give a () about the other's loot.

5 old system: if you don't revive a party member, you choose not to give your health to someone, in exchange of more DPS. why do you do that? because you know that DPS would not increase, and so your trade would be a scam. new system: same, but you now trade sparks, which: a) drop a lot, so they are technically cheap, b) if you don't have sparks cost a lot. if you revive you have a lot of sparks, but you do only if DPS is actually increased. if you don't have sparks, well, you don't revive.

The soloist thing wasn't about being trained to not die so much as making soloing have a greater margin for error so more people can be comfortable soloing if they need or want to, but whatever.

The party thing was written because, well, sometimes you get attached to your PUG. Also, remember the whole helping your friends thing.

@5: What are you talking about? First you say that Sparks have a low drop rate, then you say that Sparks drop a lot. And again with the fixation on party members being a liability. Not everyone's like that, you know; on average, more knights == more damage. Why else would monster HP increase with party size?

I don't understand this. elevator cost is replaced with the forge, and the cost of revives has just been changed to give to more people the possiblilty to revive many times, even if they still cost quite a bit, so the expense remains. it's just a note, it has nothing to do with the suggestions.

http://warriorfitness.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/confused.jpg

7
To remove their one exploitable aspect the lost heat should either be returned to the knight who lost it or lost entirely.

erm, one? where's alt dragging? as much as "Alt draggers are doing nothing NEARLY as illegal or immoral as real world item traders.", is still a way to speed up the profit curve over the learning curve. which is bad.

ERs to solists will make partying way more difficult. with what you have written, vanguards will be likely to solo more, leaving parties to noobs/unexperienced players that will die more, and so health sharing will be useless. health sharing works if there is one with lots of health and that dies not-so-often. but with that systme, those ones that die no so often will solo due to ER.

You're forgetting about all the other anti-altdragging changes, like instancing loot and removing vial sharing. And the fact that Three Rings' rationale had nothing to do with altdragging. And that free elevators make altdragging rather less attractive.

ERs to "solists" will be the same as ERs now. Vanguards will still want to party for fun and due to the mineral bonus. Health sharing works when there are people who want to work together as a team to explore the Clockworks. You know, like the press kit says.

with health sharing revives, you preferred much much more to give people health instead of energy. it's still true. besides, if they hated using health to revive PUG that died, how can you say that they will revive them with sparks? ok we are vanguards, but if one has not sparks, it must suck a lot. also, he has already died twice in a floor with the current system, while it has diluited health and died many times with health sharing.

9 Noobs can help each other to pull themselves through a difficult level
help each other

noobs= no sparks= no help. "I have only 4 sparks, revive me!" "but I have 3" "what do we do now?" and that's because they die a lot. see point 7.

It honestly sounds like you're agreeing with me here. Right now, "noobs= no sparks= no help." With health sharing, they can pick each other up off the floor with health even if they have no Sparks. Also, what I'm after here is that everyone will have the option of reviving with Sparks or health. If you have Sparks to spare, you can revive people with Sparks and reap the rewards of full health per rev plus Energy Blasts. If you don't have Sparks to spare, you can revive people with health and keep the party going.

current system rewards you if you die less and punishes you if you die more. that's a good thing. that's a very good thing. health sharing revive punished everyone if only one team member was doing wrong, becuase it leeched health from everybody until they decided to stop, which was at the 5-6th revive. and then no loot sharing cares about the activity you have in the party. if you don't revive, eventually you get no loot. and so you would more like to start over, which will get you some experience, which will help you die less.

This "people didn't stop reviving idiots until it's too late" bit seems weird with the "Vanguards don't revive idiots" thing you have going on with the rest of your post. Also, even with health sharing you would still be rewarded for dying less by having Sparks that you can use for Energy Blasts and full-health revs to get your party out of tough spots.

In short, get dunked, son. Also, using proper English makes it easier for others to parse your arguments.

Mon, 08/12/2013 - 12:21
#5
Thunder-The-Bright's picture
Thunder-The-Bright

sorry, not native english speaker, as much as I have studied it quite a bit and don't find any grammal errors ect myself, I know I'm not perfect. but, erm, lack of formatting? with all the points and punctuation? I do pragraphs when I do a logical step that needs explanation, I don't (well, didn't) think they were.
anyway.

1
"Health sharing lets you help your friends more, helping your friends is good, therefore health sharing is good."

where is this point in your original post. it's good, I know it's good and I won't try to counter it. but saying this and saying that vanguards hate sharing health with others that die often it's not the same.

"my "what Vanguards think" was made with the assumption of a Vanguard running a PUG for fun and ending up with people who are less experienced (and therefore dying more often) than they are, but not to the point of dying for stupid reasons."

yes, many players dont die enough times and for reason stupid enough to make someone quit reviving them, but you specifically said "over and over again" so I made the assumption that you were talking about the guys that end up with no SoLs or that aren't revived.

2
The no spark bit seems beyond me at the moment

explanation incoming then.
on revives, up to now, I have seen only 2 types of players: the ones who have sparks and the ones who don't. the ones who have sparks revive. the ones who don't don't, and ask for revives. the ones who have no sparks are either noobs that are not good at playing the game (or stubbornly play on difficulties they can't handle) or they have passed the situation I described. i.e., some may have acted recklessly thinking "who cares, I have 30 SoLs", ending up with no sparks.

Normal mode is neutered for advancement because of the reduced Rarity payout.

normal mode is still a viable source of SoLs until you are unexperienced, they drop less but you die less. same for loot, you trade enemies health with a slower advancement speed. when you are ready, you go on advanced, where you may die more, but get more SoLs in return, and more loot too so your advancement can be faster. but faster doesn't mean "you can't advance propely in normal difficulty".

4 point 1 again. and point 2 too.

6 I know I don't make sense and I given up to try due to lack of sense of trying to make sense. yeah, just right now.

7
"You're forgetting about all the other anti-altdragging changes, like instancing loot and removing vial sharing. And the fact that Three Rings' rationale had nothing to do with altdragging. And that free elevators make altdragging rather less attractive."

instancing loot just make them take longer, doesn't make it more difficult.
alts don't need pills and vitapods. yes, pills could be stored in the alt, and that was not so great.
official reasons are 80% crap. that's why nobody stops there.

9
maybe I had to do one ore step.
noobs= more deaths= no sparks = no help. if they die more, you don't revive them ect. also point 1 again.

"Also, what I'm after here is that everyone will have the option of reviving with Sparks or health."

citing myself: "with health sharing revives, you preferred much much more to give people health instead of energy. it's still true."

"This "people didn't stop reviving idiots until it's too late" bit seems weird with the "Vanguards don't revive idiots" thing you have going on with the rest of your post."

unless you have an idiot radar or something like that, you take a while to realize. and in the meanwhile things happen.

I know I sound drunk (as much I have never been drunk), but a shower or a bucket of water in my head doesn't work. they tried both at once and it didn't work either.

Mon, 08/12/2013 - 12:50
#6
Klipik-Forum's picture
Klipik-Forum

I think when enemies stop dropping crowns after you've been dead for a minute or so, you know OOO isn't going to go back on ANY change that discourages alt dragging, this included.

Mon, 08/12/2013 - 12:51
#7
Warp-Master's picture
Warp-Master
All right, I'm going to put

All right, I'm going to put forward the two most compelling arguments for adding back health revives:

SPIRAL KNIGHTS IS ABOUT TEAMWORK. HEALTH SHARING IS A TEAMWORK FEATURE.
SPIRAL KNIGHTS WAS FINE WITH HEALTH REVIVES. DO NOT FIX WHAT IS NOT BROKEN.

That is all.

Mon, 08/12/2013 - 13:53
#8
Niichi's picture
Niichi
~

I don't really think team work has been removed or reduced by switching from health revives to SoL/Emergency revives. Instead the burden of help has shifted from players still alive and active to the player currently on the floor.

This is a significant thing I've noticed, where players are now back into the action much faster than before because now far fewer people are sitting there waiting for another player to find an opportunity to go revive them. This means KOed players are encouraged to help the party succeed more and I honestly see that as a good thing.

Tue, 08/13/2013 - 06:41
#9
Warp-Master's picture
Warp-Master
@Niichi

Is that in endgame? If what Thunder-The-Bright says is right, people who aren't endgame (well, more people who don't die often) are more likely to beg for a rev, not get one, and then ragequit than actually be able to get back into the action. Enough of that is liable to convince a player who would otherwise keep playing and buy energy that the community has an every-man-for-himself attitude and go play something else, like Kingdom of Loathing. Health revives can fill that gap. You know, now that I think of it, health revives and Sparks can form a two-tiered revive system.

If you have lots of Sparks and don't need lots of Sparks, you can use Sparks to revive dudes and enjoy the benefits of Energy Blasts.

If you don't have lots of Sparks, you can use health to revive dudes, and at least get to carry on.

This system would reward players who die less and punish players who die more (through the opportunity cost of not being able to use Energy Blasts) without antagonizing players who die more by forcing them to restart their runs.

Tue, 08/13/2013 - 09:22
#10
Shamanalah's picture
Shamanalah
my 2 cents

HP revives didn't encourage teamwork.

It encourages the badass to do the work (me) and rez the noobs afterwards.

SO many times I have done an arena on my own then rezed the others saying "sorry but I would've lost too many HP"

I am glad that they brought this system so that nooblets won't get dragged and gather all loot while dying constantly.

IT ENCOURAGES TEAMWORK!!!!

Why? You die you rez yourself right? Well death is more significant. People don't want to die as often as before, so they may plan their FSC and JK better than just ramboing the crap out of it.

Warp, just stop assuming.

STHAP

Most vanguard are happy with the new update, hp rez was so broken, it made anything challenge free.

At least now I have a challenge and death means something not just "hey come rez me after you done there, I'll go grab a drink while you do"

It just doesn't. Plus I don't have to drag alts anymore to heat up faster. Broken mechanics left out with new system.

The new rez system is awesome, you just need to play better and to stock on SoL, I have 150. I feel pretty much invincible and rez most party member, but stop after 5.

To this day I have used 4 spark of life on myself, 1 on SL, 2 on vana and 1 on RT (afking).

This system would reward players who die less and punish players who die more

FINALLY!!!!

Before the system would reward player who dies often and punish players who doesn't die. Don't die? Don't get hit at all? 100% hp? go use all of it on dead teamates, 1% HP left, you get hit ONCE, the whole party dies.

Warp.... the new system is fine, just get better.

Period

Tue, 08/13/2013 - 11:17
#11
Niichi's picture
Niichi
~

@Warp-Master

It's Tier 3 playing with people of varying degrees of skill. I haven't really done any lower tier playthroughs yet since the update. Perhaps I've been lucky in avoiding the revive beggars, but my own experience from the current revive system has been entirely positive. It's generating a welcoming environment where players don't find their allies waiting on the floor whenever they get KOed.

Tue, 08/13/2013 - 11:21
#12
Onekone's picture
Onekone
Why not have 30-second timer

Why not have 30-second timer on dead knight, and if teammate revives you in that period, you get full health and if he's not - you're forced to use 1up?

Tue, 08/13/2013 - 12:07
#13
Waffleconecake's picture
Waffleconecake
@onekone

one that is an OK idea, but I feel it should be can ONLY rev them selves. This is to keep people from being forced to rev. Someone might want to just wait for the next floor to be reached instead of spending it like if they die at the end due to fire and have almost all the loot,

Tue, 08/13/2013 - 14:19
#14
Warp-Master's picture
Warp-Master
@Onekone

Hey, a balanced suggestion that incorporates an anti-altdragging measure, nice. Except for the full health bit; I'm seeing visions of people sticking to each other like glue and becoming effectively invincible facerollers. A better way would to just put the timer on the old pay-half-health-to-give-half-health system.

Tue, 08/13/2013 - 14:25
#15
Remove-The-Forge's picture
Remove-The-Forge
@Everyone What I'd like to

@Everyone

What I'd like to see in the game is the ability to put a SoL in the forge, which then permanently breaks the forge for you and you don't have to use fire crystals to level weapons. (However, don't tell the noobs that they can do this, because this will make OOO lose all their money ;_;)

Tue, 08/13/2013 - 14:58
#16
Thunder-The-Bright's picture
Thunder-The-Bright

cirno, as someone who doesn't like you, and that you should not trust at all:
quit spamming or a mod will ban you, I tell you because I would like you to reason before posting.
please GM don't alert me for backsit, pleeeeease.

Tue, 08/13/2013 - 15:02
#17
Remove-The-Forge's picture
Remove-The-Forge
GM = Grand

GM = Grand Moaner.

***BACKSITTER ALERT!!!***

Tue, 08/13/2013 - 15:02
#18
Blitzsonic's picture
Blitzsonic
I would support this if we

I would support this if we could have the emergency revive + health revives

Tue, 08/13/2013 - 15:12
#19
Warp-Master's picture
Warp-Master
@Blitzsonic

But then when the ER gives you full health you can do more health revives. Multiply that by 4 and death becomes nonexistent. Remember that the ER was intended to replace health revives; add health revives back and the ER has no reason to exist outside of soloing.

Tue, 08/13/2013 - 17:15
#20
Waffleconecake's picture
Waffleconecake
The most I'll be willing to

The most I'll be willing to give in the style of "health revs" is the ability to use your emergency rev on someone else.

Tue, 08/13/2013 - 19:12
#21
Tahno's picture
Tahno
Suggestion

Remove free emergency revives and:

Make emergency revives available for purchase from Basil at the beginning of each mission for around 2000 cr each. The more emergency revives you get, the more emergency revive icons you get, and you can only get as many emergency revives as there are depths in the mission, or until the next "break" (clockwork terminals, moorcraft manor, or emberlight) if you are running arcade. If you pass through a depth without using up a health revive you keep the # of revives. Emergency revives would give off a nerfed stun blast and knock back compared to energy revives, and wouldn't give you the damage bonus or invincibility. You would revive at 50% health. If you made it through without using a emergency revive, you would be compensated 1000 cr. These revives would be bought supposedly at hard missions, such as your first jelly king run, or a danger mission.

Instead of purchasing from Basil we could have them made from a new alchemy machine, that takes in 1 spark of life, and returns 2 emergency revives. These manufactured revives would go under the "usables" section and would be able to be activated wherever there is a arsenal chest. These revives would if unused, expire at the end of the depth while healing up 50% of your hp, up to the cap.

In order to drive profits for OOO, they could implement a way to get 1 free ER per level, as we have now. This would be given instead of the elevator pass from purchases and could be bought from the supply depot as a usable for 1000 ce (or just energy).

Vanguards have the option not to "waste" their health or not.
N00bs have the sharing health revive system.
Soloists can buy "extra revives" as insurance to lag or a disconnection.
Parties have normal revives.
Warp-Master is fine cause health sharing revives are back.
I didn't read anything about Dr.Spacebar

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