mario is nintendo, not sega.

EDIT: yo dude below me, ever heard of a joke thread?

I think Zeddy finally snapped.

Please stop the hate! :(
The economy isn't doing very well and I want to keep my jobs.

Question is, which is the better model? No aiming, so people can focus on the checks and balances, or aiming, so people can't?

They clash a lot when you have the option to switch between them.

In that case, because the 2D (I'm calling it 2D and not 3D because you can't really move up and down) aspect is so limited it might as well not exist. I don't know much about the fighting game community, but wouldn't there theoretically be no difference between a sidestep and a temporary phase shift button? Mechanically, it would do the same thing, you would be unhittable for a second or however long, in one because you moved to the side and in the other because you became a ghost. Then it goes back to normal. Right?

I'm still trying to remember when the suggestion forum was changed to the gremlin chatter forum.

Nah, it happened because everyone who cared realized that nobody with creative control looks at this forum.

And I'm ignoring the suggestion part and discussing the point. He's saying that AT in LD doesn't necessarily make it impossible for it to be competitive, because there are other competitive games that use AT and no one complains about it. And to that I say: Why is Counter-Strike only played competitively on PC, and not console? (Hint: console counter-strike has aim correction/assist)

That's because Counter Strike is entirely based around those aiming mechanics; it's not just about who gets the jump on who or who's using what weapon. That isn't to say that console CS doesn't have skillful elements either.

Wait, did you mean me??

Yes, yes, because skill is not the only factor in choosing what game to play. Of course. But to play competitively? Much more important. If I had the choice of which game to play competitively, and I was to start over from scratch (whatever skill I had in both games being erased) I would play CS.*

And you also brought up LoL, I'm assuming the AT you're talking about being the normal attacks. That slips under the radar because whether or not your auto attacks hit is not usually a pivotal element of any game, and there are lots of more important things to worry about. Abilities, wards, last hits, the rest of your team and the enemy team, your lane, etc. And the more important/powerful abilities are usually either skill shots, AoE character-centric bursts, or abilities you have to click on a target.

LD does not have enough else going on for AT to become a convenience rather than a crutch. Anyone can beat anyone with any weapon if they land their hits and their opponent doesn't, and a lot rides on getting those kills. Perhaps not as much as in a TDM, but if your team's dead the whole time you can't exactly win, now can you?

LD in its current state would not make for a good competitive game. It has good concepts, but gear is too imbalanced and the effectiveness of AT is too high, which makes the skill cap too low.

*Actually, I would play Starcraft II, but that wasn't a choice :)

"There are combos."
This matters why?

"There is blocking."
Only if you choose Guardian. And let's face it, most don't.

"There are dodge-moves."
Given that they're only once every 8 or so seconds, they don't play much of a factor that often.

"You can cancel out of attacks."
Sometimes, only if you have monster ASI or are very lucky. Or have insane timing.

"There is barely any ammo-management, if any."
of course there is some (each combo/clip). But yes, not that much.

"Some games should not have auto-aim because it bypasses central mechanics of the game, as in the case of Counter-Strike. Other games should have constant auto-aiming because the action is much more about feinting, dodging and timing, as in the case of Virtua Fighter.
I propose that SK is closer to the latter than the former."

I disagree. Maybe the central central mechanic in LD is capturing points, but a close second is the 1-on-1 combat. Wether you can mindgame your opponent in some way or not is important too, yes, but more important is actually hitting and killing them. Having permanent AT not only makes it unnecessarily more difficult to miss on purpose, but it significantly decreases the skill involved in a 1v1 sword fight because it takes less skill to land hits and makes it virtually impossible to dodge a hit that's close to you that you could have dodged without AT with some quick thinking, recognition and action. It would also make hitstuns much harder to break out of, since there's a much lower chance of the opponent missing and breaking the hitstun themselves.

And SCII's auto targeting in most cases falls into the vein of LoL's "you could aim by yourself, but it's not the focus" and takes it a step further. If you had to manually target every single unit you wanted to fire at, the insane level of micromanagment required would necessitate 10 SCII geniuses' brains implanted into flying jellyfish with prehensile tentacles using a keyboard with several thousand keys to perform the same level of control that the current top-level players can accomplish with *merely* over three freaking hundred actions per minute.

There's a major point you missed: alchemers. See, the skill shot there requires no AT and "skill". What I suggest is to auto-enable AT for regular attacks and remove it for charges. This does nothing for bombers but for, say, brandishes, I can no longer lag spike and somehow do a split second point perfect charge unleash on a slime. Higher risk, same reward. I'm also comparing regular attacks to auto attacks in LoL because people don't really use them all that much. Except guns. And what does it do to guns? Nerf alchemers.

AT is ok in Virtua Fighter but not SK because: The effect of rotation is much greater in SK than VF.(do they call it that?)

In VF, sure, there may be gimmicks like map obstacles, but SK takes that to a whole different level because you can turn 180 degrees almost instantly thanks to the camera angle. VF is a fighting game, which is a genre that evolved from the 1-D days of Street Fighter II where the only way position played a factor was how far away to the left or right your opponent was. With the indroduction of the depth dimension came things like dodging to the side and whatnot, but because the genre originated as a 1D genre that is the main core of all games in the genre and the second dimension is minor in comparison.
In SK, because it is a top-down-ish camera angle with mouse-controlled(optional) rotation, the game was developed and balanced around the fact that there are two prevalent dimensions for the player to move in and control.
If you took the second dimension out of fighting games, it would have a much smaller impact than if you took SK and made it essentially into a fighting game. If you've played against AT brandish users while you're using a toothpick, you know the toothpick's extra swing radius is nullified by the aim correction unless you're fighting multiple enemies at once. Same goes for GF/Acheron since the buff. And with guns, while AT isn't as effective (since bullets don't curve), it still has an effect of the same nature especially if you use fast bullets.

"why does everyone go with swords? It just makes it so bloody easy for me to waltz into a match with my 500ms ping and troll people with hazes! Why doesn't anyone else do this??? It's like, the ticket to winning lockdown!"

For the same reason I try not to spawn camp: you win, but it's boring.

I'm talking about the game in its current state of balance and metagame, where virtually no one cares about actually winning as much as having fun beating up the other team. In that situation, AT has a much larger effect than what you're describing. But if you're going to use that logic, then why is aim correction frowned upon in CS if you can use tactics to overcome superior aiming?

Stop spamming about removing auto-target, you can take it down yourselves in options. Just a good search.

Stop spamming about removing auto-target, you can take it down yourselves in options. Just a good search.

Did you read none of the thread?