Spiral Knights - So... a GM said we arent looking on the right place for Radiants.

So... a GM said we arent looking on the right place for Radiants.

47 replies [Last post]

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 19:54

Sweet-Hope

As most of the members of Spiral Knights Community know, there always a thread about complaining about radiants and stuff like that, this isnt an exception in spanish forums (but they lack of activity and interesting threads anyway) so as you can expect we got our own radiant thread complain in spanish forums.

But this thread ask about where we get Radiant Crystal, as the thread develop, many users posted where to find a bit of radiants. Everyone posted where to find radiants, a bunch of time have passed on such thread until GM Clotho appear in thread and said:

"You can Get Radiants, its probably that you arent looking on the right places" (http://forums.spiralknights.com/es/node/91446#comment-869098)

In the thread people said the places to find radiants:
-Arcade Depth 28 (sometimes 27) on Elite Mode
-Shadow Lairs Elite Mode
-OCH T3 Elite Mode last depth

Even 2 times those places were mentioned by people in that thread. then again GM Clotho said:

"As i said, you arent looking on the right places. You must look for them near at the core" probably she mean near at core depths (http://forums.spiralknights.com/es/node/91446#comment-870375)

Then i wonder: then what its Arcade Depth 28, Shadow Lairs, OCH T3? isnt supposed those depths are near to the core?. Also there was a user who claimed he got Radiants on Rank Mission 6-2, and some people said that they got radiants in The Rotten Metropolis mission, but a friend mine said that apperently that was a bug and only happend in Monday.

So my question for you guys:

For you: What are those levels that are near of the core?
Did you guys got radiants on earlier dephts the monday?

I honestly have my doubts about the radiant drops on earlier depths, but also i dont play like i used to do before. so i would like your answers about that matter.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 20:14

Poomph

I didn't hear anything about radiants on an earlier depth. I really don't know what to make of this, but I guess we're not looking hard enough or Clotho is trolling because I haven't found a single radiant outside of depth 28, and I do Cradle And All runs everyday.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 20:23

Draycos

"You can get Radiants, it's just that you can only get them at extremely specific places that take a huge amount of time to get to or farm."

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 20:23

Vesperaldus

Well, I recently (I think it

Well, I recently (I think it was last week) got an Eternal Orb of Alchemy on a Royal Jelly run. I'm not sure how relevant that is since its an Orb and not Fire Crystals... but I still thought that was pretty odd.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 21:11

Shamanalah

my 2 cents

I just.... I... near the core... what? (I spent a whole 5 minutes at D29) and I couldn't help but notice a pad on the far end with an arsenal station next to and it has a top-down view (kinda like RT). Is this new? I haven't paid much attention to the core before you mentionned it...

I also found 9 Radants in the D28 but that's irrelevant... but that bugs me... -_- I'm sitting AFK in the core if you have any idea... I'm currently holding a hypothesis of the core opening during one hour in the whole week (or day?). IDK I'm just fetching things out of my.... head... anyway I can't figure out what he meant...

Already checked D8 and D18...Well, I recently (I think it was last week) got an Eternal Orb of Alchemy on a Royal Jelly run it happens more often then Elite sadly...

A friend of mine thinks there is a new boss coming with gunner update... I hope so -_-

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 21:31

Poomph

The pad's been there, along with the bird's eye vies since like, forever. I just recently noticed the arsenal station though.

"I'm currently holding a hypothesis of the core opening during one hour in the whole week (or day?)."

Dude, you've been playing too much Pokemon X/Y.

And that new boss your friend thinks of might be the tortodrone.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 23:05

Autofire

You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

A little birdie tells me that you get 10 times as many Radiants if you buy them off the depot when you are standing at the Core of the Arcade. (Not of the Vanaduke missions.)

Or, you could also try talking to the NPCs enough times. They might get bored and just give you Crystals. Who knows?

OOORRR Clotho is a troll in GM's clothes.

Tue, 02/04/2014 - 23:47

Chromosver

What Draycos said.

tldr: Players aren't farming KoA, Shadow Lairs and OCH enough so everyone get off your lazy behinds and start grinding!

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 00:47

Jendar-Nox

...

Most probably, GM just haven't noticed people talking about Shadow Lairs. (These levels are the closest to the core, as far as I know, and they are said to give a lot of Radiants.)

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 05:44

Whimsicality

Guys... Guys... What if Clotho was hinting at... gasp...

THE CORE OPENING?

If only. If only.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 06:04

#10

Klipik-Forum

Closer to the core ≠ in the core.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 07:12

#11

Thunder-The-Bright

gods ain't gonna help you, son.

they added an ARSENAL STATION IN THE CORE DEPTH?
oh lord. here we go. the end is near. this was the behind the scenes change.
EDIT: now I gotta run to d29 and do an experiment.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 07:32

#12

Aplauses

The arsenal station is always there around 2 years ago.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 07:47

#13

Thunder-The-Bright

gods ain't gonna help you, son.

really? never noticed.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 08:56

#14

Jendar-Nox

...

Actually, it really was there when I first reached the Core in August. It can vaguely be seen in the background of this memory photo of me and Vaelyn:

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/578998261459168492/7D7BECEC6598CC742...

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 10:30

#15

Paintool

I can tell you this

http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz212/MisterHinotori/2012-12-28_00019...

It's been there way longer, since before the UI update.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 11:35

#16

Raunwynn

You get enough crowns on a

You get enough crowns on a run to trade for 100 energy.
In 5 or 6 runs you get enough to trade for 700 energy, which = 50 radiants.
It's not the worst situation.
When elevators cost 10 energy, there were times that I couldn't play the game because I was broke.
I had to wait around for mist or vendor stuff just to get into a level.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 12:31

#17

Klipik-Forum

"In 5 or 6 runs you get

"In 5 or 6 runs you get enough to trade for 700 energy, which = 50 radiants."
So 12 runs for one level of one weapon? No thanks. I could find enough eternals to make another weapon in that many runs.

"When elevators cost 10 energy, there were times that I couldn't play the game because I was broke."
If you paid attention to what you wanted to do that day, this never should have happened to anyone after their first week or two of playing. Mist and the CE market were easy enough to manage, even when CE prices went up close to 9k.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 12:36

#18

Fehzor

@Raunwynn

GOOD JOB BUDDY :D
YOU ARE VERY FRIENDLY AND CAN MANAGE YOUR MONEY ANY WAY YOU WANT TO.
I REALLY CAN'T ARGUE WITH ANYTHING.
PLEASE DON'T HURT ME.

@Topic

It doesn't matter what the GMs say. If we've done every level and there is no viable source of radiants to be found on any of the levels, then there is no viable source of radiants to be found on any of the levels. If they're hinting at something, then we'll find it but I really don't think they are...

They were probably just responding to the OP anyway.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 12:42

#19

Vesperaldus

What's that Fehzor?

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 16:31

#20

Skepticraven

@Raunwynn

Lets bring that math a bit more precise.
Lancer Knightz shows the king of ashes has a per-depth payout of 2541 on elite (2226 classic).
Forging a 5* item from lvl 1-10 costs 453 fire crystals.
Supply depot cost of radiants is 700 energy per 50 fire crystals, or 14 per crystal.
Current price of energy is about 7k/100 or 70crn per energy.
Rate of radiant drops from boxes is 12.5% chance (half radiant, half shining) from the final 12 boxes in KoA (Average 4.5 radiants per run, valued at 4410 crns or 882 per depth)

Now for the fun maths.
Current cost of crafting and heating one 5* item: 453*14*70= 443,940 crowns.
- This assumes you will get 3 or more eternal orbs as drops within the farming time for radiants.
- This is 175 KoA depths, or 35 full runs to heat WITHOUT radiant drops.
- This is 64 KoA depths, or 13 full runs to heat with average radiant drops.
- This assumes you never get a "double levelup" or a "forge prize box".
Past cost of crafting and heating one 5* item: 800 energy + depth cost = 56,000 crowns + 700 per depth.
- This assumes heating is free (again, you need to pay for depths, but lets assume you craft+heat more than 1 item).
- This is 37 KoA depths, or 8 full runs.
- This assumes no mist was used at all.

We went from 8 KoA runs to 13 KoA runs to make one piece of fully heated 5* equipment.

Lets say the energy market was a bit less forgiving and was instead at 90 crns per energy.
Current situation is: 70 KoA depths, or 14 full runs.
Past situation was: 42 KoA depths, or 9 full runs.

Someone might ask "what would the energy price have to be for the old system to be equivalent to the new system...?"
Well that would be roughly double the current price - close to 15,000 crns per 100 energy.

Realistically, we are at about 50% increased farming for 5* items, and A WHOLE TON LESS farming for new players and lower equipment.
I accept the tradeoff. I agree with OOO that this was a good strategy. Most of the community does not (because they saw the radiant drop heaven before it was patched to be close to what it was before).

There are a lot of variables to this equation, and we do not know what we have in store in planned updates. This mod post may be hints of a new update coming that could provide a faster way of harvesting radiants.
Or it could just be referring to the first post in the thread, and mean nothing for hints.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 17:25

#21

Mayaura

@ Skepticraven

First, let me say "thank you for taking the time to do that."

Secondly, I'm bad at math.

But that looks wrong.

what I see is we now need to do 100 Vana runs to get enough radiants to heat one 5* gear to level 10. (Or maybe about 50 runs to earn the crowns to buy that amount of radiants.)

Or we can pay 450k crowns, for something that used to be free.

As a trade-off, we might get free orbs, saving us maybe 100k from 2* to 5* crafting.

Lastly, I, and probably a lot of other players, don't like doing vana runs over and over or farming or doing anything in a game that smells like work. Even relatively wealthy players like myself balk at heating anything beyond, say, level 5, mainly because what ever additional strength gets added to your gear in those last 5 levels of heat isn't worth the roughly 300,000 crowns it would cost.

Sorry if I've completely misunderstood the math or something, but I hope I've explained how it feels intuitively.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 17:44

#22

Skepticraven

@Mawashimono

That "saving" on free orbs is hidden by "saving" on elevator costs.
Using the 8 runs, thats an added 400 energy just on elevator costs alone using the most profitable method at the time... for one 5* item.

Anyone that already has their usual weapons fully heated has little incentive to cash in loads of crowns just to heat some things. (I know I don't)
Anyone that ever used an elevator pass has reason to be very upset because there is no equivalent replacement yet.
Anyone that is a new player has a gigantic reason to be happier because now all depths can be farmed and not just a few that surpassed the cost of elevators.

The game got much more F2P friendly up until 5*, where it got approximately 50% slower.
P2Pers lost a significant time advantage over F2Pers. I'm an F2Per, which is why I support it. The forge, from my perspective, was a very heavy P2P nerf. Anyone that disagrees with me needs to look over the math [Energy spent for crafting 1 5* Previous: 1200, Current: ~5500].

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 17:49

#23

Dibsville

@Skepticraven

Yeah, okay.

Now, let's break that down as to why I myself disagree with absolutely everything you just said.

First of all: Vanaduke is boring as hell to me, and I almost refuse to run it because I'd rather play the game that I love instead of doing the same exact f***ing thing all day. Many people also feel this way, so your argument is already flawed.

Secondly, we don't get profit from this method. In the old days, we could use the profit we got from FSC for alchemy. While, yes, we can get Orbs from FSC as well to make up for it, this is limited to Eternal Orbs only. In the old days, we could use the Crowns for whatever we wanted; be it for alchemy or other things. Now the only thing we get out of it are the Eternal Orbs.

I could go on to say how much insanely longer this method really is than the old method, but you already covered it. And I honestly can't believe those values, not in the slightest. Average does not mean every run, and as most people have noted, they get below average on almost every run.

Yes, the game is now new-people-friendly, but what about new Vanguards? They just get stuck with crappy weapons, and it'll take them significantly longer to get to where most of the "advanced" Vanguards are now than it took them.

So please, you and all the maxed out Vanguards can continue to run FSC and tell us it's the best way, while every other average person can continue crying because we can't heat our damn equipment.

And don't even get started on the "Free Elevators" thing. It costs more IRL money to heat our stuff now than it did before when we could just buy an Elevator Pass. At least back then we could heat our stuff else-where instead of just FSC and Shadow Lairs, the latter of which an average person won't be able to run on Elite.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 18:03

#24

Shamanalah

my 2 cents

SL are the best way to farm Radiant and they haven't touch that yet. So I bet it's there (i have a friend with 14k Shinning and about 9k Radiant...)

But let me put it this way: Back then you were farming to get money to fancy yourself with accessories and whatnot. Now you are farming to finish your gear and when you are done you need more gear so you never really save for yourself and if you do you are punished.

I personally have stopped playng SK so I don't give a **** where it's going. What drove me away of SK is how HARD I have to work for something that was GIVEN before. OOO can never manage to hit the right spot of decent drop... it's just amazing at how bad they are.

Oh so I have to do a SL (45 minutes rushing Snarbo and 1 hour + for each) to get Radiants? I have to commit myself to a 2 hours grind for a single session of radiant hunt? hahahahaha yeah right... not gonna happen soon

"the game shifted from what it is" and I've shifted to better game. Even with the gunner update... most problem won't be fix. Acheron will still be OP, Chaos will still be OP, DA/Antigua charge will still fail when back against a wall, the arcade is missing key feature, I am hoarding useless minerals.

And also like Dibs mentionned. It's nice to go in a SL with 5* stuff lvl 1 to heat it... you should try it sometimes...

Edit: You talk about the F2P section, care to do the maths for a P2P guy? Who paid 6$ a month to get free elevator, craft using mist and can heat anything in a matter of hours? P2P have no options to heat their gear quickly like before... There is a huge chunk of P2P leaving the game because you get no advantage from being P2P in SK... other than being Pretty 2 Play...

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 18:04

#25

Autofire

You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

Hmmhmm...

Wait, so...

Konami code time?

Realistically speaking, OOO, please clarify! We seem to be stumped and arguments are starting! I really really want to get a 5* ice Troika and a BAB and 5* Catalyzer and Volcanic Plate Mail and a Heavenly Iron Helm. Right now I feel like an idiot if I tried to craft any of that, and I even have plenty of Eternal Alchemy Orbs!

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 18:07

#26

Poomph

"I am hoarding useless materials"

Feel free to give me those materials anytime.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 18:15

#27

Skepticraven

@Shamanalah

You talk about the F2P section, care to do the maths for a P2P guy?

Therein lies the major complaint. The energy to better arsenal tradeoff is at minimum 7x worse off [with the math above]. There is no equivalent to an elevator pass. Boxes shifted from "free with purchase" to "buy from supply depot" for a bit. They are listening. Those shifted back to free with purchases. All P2Pers need to do now is to come up with a fair equivalent for the elevator pass. If someone wants to make a thread and talk about how they are losing out - I can assist with the math there [and trying to not derail this thread more].

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 18:16

#28

Dibsville

"I really really want to get a ... 5* Catalyzer ... Right now I feel like an idiot if I tried to craft any of that, and I even have plenty of Eternal Alchemy Orbs!"

My Level 1 Biohazard that I only ever use because it goes 'pewpew' that I've never actually used in a real situation ever agrees.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 18:59

#29

Sandwich-Potato

Dibs. Dat reply stuff with Poomph.

U srs bro.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 19:11

#30

Fehzor

Hey Skepticraven, I have a question that requires math.

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/96923

No worries about derailment.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 19:23

#31

Shamanalah

my 2 cents

Feel free to give me those materials anytime.

Funny enough I had to sell some materials that were bound to me that I had no use (Grinchlins mats and sprite food) and got a whoping 2,250 cr! Instead of helping someone I got close to nothing.

Do you need a specific material?

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 19:52

#32

Blazzberry

I have no mouth and I need to scream

Now I feel terrible having level 10 stuff.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 20:56

#33

Poomph

Well,

I've actually been crafting cutters like hell, hoping for one with gremlin low/med or construct low/med, but now I'm running low on monster bones, think you could send me some?

Thu, 02/06/2014 - 04:58

#34

Akuryo

o....o)

@Poomph & Dibs

"U.N. Owen Was Her" ... f*** yes

@Thread

Clotho

*no offense intended* but as stated by the players/forummers above, there clearly is no simple way to acquire them radiants

i could be wrong about Clotho tho if she is hinting at something ...

Thu, 02/06/2014 - 05:59

#35

Jendar-Nox

...

Oh, by the way, I happened to remember that in my search for some hidden way to get Radiants, I even bought the Radiant Crystal Pin from Brinks and tried wearing it in Tier 3 runs. Unfortunately, it didn't come up to my expectations and haven't magically turned Shinings into Radiants.

Thu, 02/06/2014 - 06:42

#36

Trats-Romra

Heat became more optional (to newbies)

I already noticed that to newbies is more hard to heat too. Before, heat was something like a prize for playing, easy to get, that makes you stronger. Now, heat becomed something so optional. My cousins hardly can heat some 3* gear to level 10, while I can do it easily. And they pratically never heated your 0* and 1* gear. They heated some 2* gear, but not too much.
I'm talking about newbies, not T3 guys.

I think it's sad. Heat was something more cool before. A great thing.

I already think on some sort of insta-heat. Something like 0,3% to automatically level up your gear. But I don't know if it could be a good idea.

Thu, 02/06/2014 - 07:54

#37

Raunwynn

@Skepticraven

That's pretty impressive!
We should consider sellable materials as well.
I often make as much at the AH afterward as I did from picking up coins.

Thu, 02/06/2014 - 08:34

#38

Eric-Rokai

They could change heat amplifier

As heat is easy to get, they could change or add a new item to the supply depot, something that raises chances of high level crystals or even double every crystal you pick, that way if you get 4-9 crystals at the end of FSC you would get 8-18, and I think that's a lot better than what we have right now.

Thu, 02/06/2014 - 08:49

#39

Autofire

You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

@Dibsville

I had to stare at your post to make sense of it for some reason. xD

Anyway, a BAB without heat is far worse than a 3* Blast Bomb.

The Armor/Helmets though, I may just go on ahead with making those.

Thu, 02/06/2014 - 09:10

#40

Momofuku

I would not mind a P2P "Elevator Pass"-esque item that gave me enhanced Rarity drops (orbs, radiant fire crystals) across T3 depths for 30 days. It would be very similar to the advantage that the Elevator Pass used to give, which is basically paying money to cut down on the amount of farming required.

As it stands, it's one thing to pay for convenience of items in Supply Depot (ie. weapons, gear) but it's another to drastically overcharge (ie. fire crystals) for something that used to be free and easily obtained.

Thu, 02/06/2014 - 12:36

#41

Oroseira

May I take your order, sir?

Actually, they're telling us to look in the Supply Depot.

Thu, 02/06/2014 - 12:39

#42

Seiran

More importantly:

@Dibs/Poomph
Did you achieve?
Is the Vana boss fight more excite?

Thu, 02/06/2014 - 13:18

#43

Omoikami

Dun drop dat...

Also, I think you forget the fact that you could do multiple levels of heating in one depth, and this is without the heat-share 'trick', which made heating so easy (aka 1-2 FSC runs per 5* item). Typically, I could make and fully heat a 2-5* item in a few hours, before the update.

With the forge update, I also got my hands on the radiants that were available immediately after. Unfortunately I spent all em them (~4k) on making and heating random stuff :P Now I have about 10 5* items which I'll never use, since they aren't fully heated. The especially irritating thing is the charge time bonus on weapons, which only gets to 'med' once heat is maxed. D:

For a F2P knight, its a mission to get to t3 clearance, but that hasn't really changed. But for new Vanguard Knights, its hell getting all their gear (minimum of like 4-5 pieces of 5* equips (I believe thats like 2-3k radiants) to max heat level).

I also don't see the point of OOO making/keeping heat amps... If those things boost Crystal drop rates, I'd be happy, but what is the point of trying to heat something, but not being able to Forge it, due to lack of radiants.

Thu, 02/06/2014 - 16:39

#44

Poomph

Well the dialogue attracted more attention then the actual pic.

Haven't tried it yet, gonna try today. Hopefully SK won't implode into a black vortex on me.

Edit: It worked, and it was amazing. Just amazing. I think I'm gonna keep it like that, works much better than the actual boss theme.

Thu, 02/06/2014 - 17:21

#45

Rhagnarock

my 2 cents

@Poomph

This is Sham (from work) and I'll have to check. I used to craft a lot of wolver sets so Monster Bone should be low... But IDK how much I have, will send you a mail in-game about it.

@topic

Clotho meant we had to crack SK and find the codes to get near the core... They probly have a room somewhere hidden behind walls with 1000 treasure boxes somewhere... XD

Thu, 02/06/2014 - 17:37

#46

Poomph

Nah man, they definitely just got this one golden box in a secret room. In this box, contains infinite monies. The GMs want to poke us with little hints so we find and open the box. Here's the problem though: With infinite monies, haven will overflow with crowns, and everyone will die. If that doesn't kill them, I'm sure the lag will cause Earth to turn into a black vortex.

Thu, 02/06/2014 - 18:17

#47

Crashburnboom

I'm what you might call a "'new' vanguard"

I'm a relatively new vanguard and have faced the same struggles as you guys, while just barely getting to vanguard before the drought.
My two main areas of troubles were getting the;
4* Equipment Stuff (Via RJP, if only I knew about elite mode then :( )
5* Equipment Stuff (Via The Rotting Metro, still go there today :D )

Also, I liked getting crystals from earlier on so I could save them for heating my gear later.

Now, I have;
- A Strike Needle 10 (+ Recipe)
- A Skolver Cap 4
- A Master Blaster 9
- A Acheron 1
- A Shivermist Buster 4
- A Venom Striker thingy 4* whose name escapes atm 1
- Ageist? 4
My better stuff is
- My beloved Divine Avenger 10 (Bonus dmg vs beast: high, undead: low), managed to lvl it up to 10 before the drought
- Vog Cub Coat 5
That's it. I can't get lvl up any of my other things now as a result of the drought.

I refuse to level some of these weapons up as they are comparable worse than the lvl 1 versions of 5*.
Also, don't forget that this "drought" also affects OTHER crystals! For a while, I was unable to get Shinings at the Rotting Metro. I have a feeling that the crystal dropdown has/will effect newbs.

@Supply Depot;
NEVER BUY ANYTHING FROM THE SUPPLY DEPOT. PERIOD. I did a bunch of handwritten calculations on it (and am to lazy to write them down atm :P) and Buying an item there exceeds the cost of making it yourself exponentially (the rate of growth grows!). Even on "sales". I would only recommend buying stuff like orbs, weapon slots, item slots, reset stars, etc.

Search

So... a GM said we arent looking on the right place for Radiants.