Spiral Knights - It's sad that people have accepted the stupidity of the radiant crystal removal.

It's sad that people have accepted the stupidity of the radiant crystal removal.

33 replies [Last post]

Wed, 02/12/2014 - 20:20

Rangerwillx

It removed the possibility to heat 5* items without paying over 6,000 energy (or 3,000 if you magically have a super group to run shadow lairs for several hours a day). It's stupid and absurd that they have done this, and it is sad that we have gotten used to this.
I have several 5* items which are unheated, as I'm sure many of you guys do.

Obviously at this point there is not much we can do, but that doesn't change the fact that I think it's an amazingly poor decision by OOO. I believe all conspiracy of "they're letting us get 4* crystals for the new gunner stuff" has gone now that they have delayed it for over 3 months. At least they had the guts to not say "sorry, now we're looking for a march release" and actually say that they have no idea how long it will take. I haven't been playing SK for a couple months (besides the occasional log-in to say hi to guildies), and at this point due to the lack of being able to craft and enjoy new 5* items.

TL;DR (wtf this is not long)

Why have people accepted the fact that radiants are gone? It's game-breaking for me, I might actually be playing SK regularly if I could play with my new 5* items.

Obviously this will be labled as another stupid radiant thread, but the threads aren't stupid if they're right, even if they are in vain.

/rant

Wed, 02/12/2014 - 20:28

Dibsville

I see this going down one of four ways:

1. Gunner/Tortodrone update will come out, and they'll fix the Radiant drought

2. Gunner update will come out, they won't fix the drought, and people will continue going along as they did before

3. Tortodrone will come out and be the new source of Radiants, drought won't get fixed elsewhere

4. Gunner update and Tortodrone update come out, the drought isn't fixed, and a huge majority of the population quits because OOO's obviously isn't paying attention to us

I'm leaning towards 3 or 4.

Wed, 02/12/2014 - 20:49

Seiran

Waiting for the second coming of Arcade

I'm going for 5:

5. Arcade redux is completed and Radiants/other material drops are finally balanced.

Here's how I see it:
- Removal of Energy gates and introduction of new Forge System.
- Radiant Fire Crystals were originally way too common, so they needed to tone them down.
- With the press to tone down RFC drops, they decided to push down the drop rates as a paywall to see if people would be willing to adapt and pay money in order to finish leveling their items. At the very least, while this might not convince more players to pay more, it might just push the personality types of 'whales' (people who spend a lot money multiple times) to pay for their gear.

I've seen people say that it was a way of delaying endgame, but keep in mind that you can complete all the missions after owning all 5* gear, regardless of level. People can be satisfied with having completed the missions and be done with the game.

Arcade Redux is likely going to be a huge game-changer. Pun intended.

From here:
After introducing missions, the Arcade has become a place of redundancy. It has also suffered from the recent sprite update, relying on mineral leftovers from the community.
Over several patches, we intend to transform the Arcade into the place it has always aspired to be:
- A sandbox-type experience where unexpected things can happen
- A place where players can farm materials and items in between missions
- A feature that gives players some degree of control over the experience

I bolded the part relevant to this thread, but I honestly think the rest of it is way more important.
I find it unnerving that people think the gunner update is more important than this.

Wed, 02/12/2014 - 20:48

Usevnsevnsixfivfor

What's a top secret disk?

Simply because we don't spam as many Radiant threads like we used to, that doesn't mean we aren't concerned about the Radiant droprates being smaller than an ant. The reason why I left SK (I should be selling stuff en masse to get a few TF2 keys) was because of the SK team failing to 1) fix Radiant drops, 2) no gunner update or arcade redux II dates for a while, and 3) the SK team not doing anything about the Moonstone and Valestone minerals. I understand the team is small and that programming can be stressful, but no permanent game-changing content for six months (disregard barriers and Winterfest and Halloween and removal of gates, and 20$ 5* item heating) is a terrible thing.

We need new content, not constant weapon reskins or costumes, although some are nice, but for the past FOREVER, we just get knicknacks and recolors. Ooh look, Polar stuff. Ooh look, Thunder stuff. Ooh look, Hallow items again. Ooh look, Furniture boxes. Ooh look, we can disguise as Trojans without spending 150k every month. Ooh look, Steam items. Ooh loo- OMG WHERE ARE THE UPDATES???

See the problem? We need something NEW, something FRESH, like allowing our suggestions to be implemented by popular vote, instead of OOO's current model: mass mobbing. They do seem similar, but popular vote is on a few threads, meanwhile mass mobbing is threads everywhere. There have been no disagreements to raising droprates, lowering prices, changing the useless Heat Amps, or adding a new dookickey that allows either optional or cheaper heating. That is what we need, not pictures of Tortodrones.

I hope that the forum mods reading this are agreeing with me and are kissing their computers. But seerusly, I'm gonna be unbinding and selling my ASI brandishes if the Guntastrophe isn't super spectacular, or fixes Radiants. G'bye for tonight.

Wed, 02/12/2014 - 20:49

Pandafishie

I do have to agree with Dibsville.

But also:
Well you know, there's going to be a new boss eventually. I know people hate waiting, but I've learned that I'm extremely tolerate of waiting...
I'm pretty sure that that will for sure that those missions will get us the Radiants back. Until then, I'm fine doing SLs with friends for fun and for Radiants.

Wed, 02/12/2014 - 21:12

Rangerwillx

@Usevnsevnsixfivfor

Every radiant thread I see nowadays is replied with "who cares" and sarcastic posts, etc. Obviously not everyone doesn't care, but the fact that anyone is able to accept it is beyond my comprehension.

Wed, 02/12/2014 - 23:16

Skepticraven

@Anti-Danger

From an F2Per perspective, it is not as different as it was before the update.
From a P2Per perspective, it is horrible.

As an F2Per that did some math, I don't care and actually think the situation for me is relatively fair. If I were a P2Per that used elevator passes or bought energy, I would have a completely different story.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 01:07

Gabrihel

You can complain only if you find another idea

You can complain only if you find another idea to make OOO profit... right now they can profit from energy buying for the forge of 5* gears.. Now that you can find orbs to craft things and elevators are free there are no more reasons to buy energy but for heating 5*... so if you can suggest another serious and well planned way to make them profit removing this radiant drought, without removing the free elevator feature (which is worth the drought for me) then you can complain...

Personally I can accept it so long as it comes with a free elevator... More runs for me is much better than slower heating.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 01:20

Aurorra

It's because all the people

It's because all the people that do care have quit until they fix it, like me.

There's lots of ways they can make the game profitable. Hell, they're owned by Sega, just copy what they're doing with Phantasy Star Online 2.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 01:23

Tempas

@gabrihel Even though orbs

@gabrihel
Even though orbs can be found for free people do still buy them out of laziness. People also unbind weapons, buy weapons from the depot etc. That puts money into the game. It'd be much wiser to add things like DLC's since these would actually give content for money instant of depriving people of an essential element of the game. Honestly new players can't begin to compete with maxed out level gear which many of the veterans possess. Any who that's my rant for now.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 05:03

#10

Avenger-Of-Troy

I disagree.

the fact that anyone is able to accept it is beyond my comprehension.
It really isn't that bad... now we can focus on getting new gear, rather than increasing the power of our current gear...
First people were complaining bout shinies, so they gave us more shinies, and took our rads T.T
It removed the possibility to heat 5* items without paying over 6,000 energy (or 3,000 if you magically have a super group to run shadow lairs for several hours a day)
Uhh... no, you can take your time.... (You just need about 4 shadow lairs (UFSC) to get it...)(4.5vanas per key (saying it's 450e to join) *4 keys is only 1.8kce... or 18 vanas...)

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 06:12

#11

Arelic

still tl;dr

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 07:11

#12

Akuryo

o....o)

let what may come. i too dont like this drought but id like to just relieve myself of such worry and see what OOO has planned for us for the next big, game changing update.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 07:41

#13

Paweu

"There's lots of ways they

"There's lots of ways they can make the game profitable. Hell, they're owned by Sega, just copy what they're doing with Phantasy Star Online 2."

To everyone who doesn't know how SEGA runs PSO2: to put items on sale in the "auction house" you need to pay one of two subscriptions, first one is the basic that gives only access to the "auction house" and the second one which has some other benefits. Those other benefits are: item trading (yes, you need a subscription to trade items, it requires both players to have the subscription), being able to enter full lobbies if there is premium space open (think of it as Haven instances in Spiral Knights terms with party finding locked to only players who are in the same Haven as you, so unlike in Spiral Knights, if the lobby has players playing the quest you want to play but there is no space, well, tough luck, you aren't playing). The game is unfriedly for solo players as spawns size depends on the amount of players on the map, enemies aren't scaled at all with party size, the game as a whole is an unbalanced mess which SEGA is unable to fix so they just give random damage boosts ranging from 20% to 100% to classes. Not to mention that to be able to equip some of the better you need the better subscription which lets you turn super rare weapons into super rare passes which let you buy super rare weapons from the "auction house" and honestly, that is pretty much the only reliable way to get the super rare weapons you actually want. The drop rates of those super rare weapons are really bad, i'd say around 0,001%. This is by no means a joke. Not to mention, there are some super super rare weapons which require something akin to tokens from Spiral Knights. The difference? You need around 13500 for one such weapon and daily you can get 5-20 tokens.

So before someone recommends to SEGA actually take over and do a PSO2 on SK, hit yourself in your head at least 10 times, with a spiked club.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 08:11

#14

Klipik-Forum

You know every major update when OOO doesn't fix major problems and all the "I Quit!" threads show up? I don't think very many people actually quit from those. I don't think this will be any different if they don't do anything.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 09:38

#15

Sonosuke

#Sonosuks

I find it a good thing that people are accepting this. Now we hear less complaints about "FIX RADIANTS HURDUR KTHXBAI" and more actual suggestions like bosses and enemies and stuff.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 09:47

#16

Jenron

teehee

FICKS RAIDIENTS HURRDURR MURRDURR KTHXBAI

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 10:48

#17

Chromosver

I'm so funny I should be a forum clown or something..

Oh yeah, and what's the alternative to accepting the stupidity of the radiant crystal removal? Ranting here and complaining to your friends in-game to no avail?

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:26

#18

Shamanalah

my 2 cents

Here's a graph of Steam deception about recent update

The spikes are from gunner update and halloween... And if you can't understand the graph, you can also see that this is the least amount of people Steam ever recorded on SK...

I wonder why...

Edit: Click on the 48 hours timelaps too! it tells a wonderful story ^ ^

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:40

#19

Thunder-The-Bright

gods ain't gonna help you, son.

best thing is, we got a +141% that we never lost.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 14:54

#20

Shamanalah

my 2 cents

@ Thunder yup we lost em... OOO gain 141% population over 1 month... from 900 to 2,100 and lost 40% the next month, puttin them at 1,300... then 18.5%... 1,000 player... then another 17.1%... putting them below the update to begin with at 881.

IDK but if I was a dev and looking at those stats, I would've done like Nick and moved to another game...

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 15:56

#21

Aurorra

"Those other benefits are:

"Those other benefits are: item trading (yes, you need a subscription to trade items, it requires both players to have the subscription)"

You realize in the current Spiral Knights game you have to pay the same amount to trade a single 5* as you do in PSO2 to trade any amount of items for an entire month right? Also, it's possible to get 3 day auction house passes for free at a rate of about one a month or more depending on how much you play or how lucky you are.

"being able to enter full lobbies if there is premium space open"

I don't think I've ever seen a Haven actually filled to capacity, even when the game was more popular. I also don't think the Clockworks and Haven are linked in the same way as PSO2's lobbies so it's not like you can be locked out of joining a party even if a popular Haven was full. Not to mention Spiral Knights doesn't even have the same limited availability missions that are the cause behind the lobbies becoming full.

Anyways, you didn't even touch on the main source of revenue Sega gets with PSO2, and that is the AC Scratch. Basically it's the same as the Prize Boxes that are occasionally available to buy with CE, only they cost less, have a larger selection of costumes and accessories to pull from, aren't simple palette swaps of existing gear(though there are a few palette swaps of popular items) and come out on regular intervals every two to three weeks. Basically it's as if Three Rings came out with a prize box the quality of both the Stormy Box from last summer and the Obsidian Box from the fall, and tossed in some recolored Rose Regalia for good measure. And did that every two to three weeks. And priced them at 700 energy.
Here's a link showing the latest http://bumped.org/psublog/pso2-jp-ac-scratch-dragons-altar/

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 15:54

#22

Seiran

Shamanalah:
> Here's a graph of Steam deception about recent update

>The spikes are from gunner update and halloween... And if you can't understand the graph, you can also see that this is the least amount of people Steam ever recorded on SK...

Ok, so I thought linking this was cute and all, and I really wanted to give you a chance but... stop right there.

Apocrea happened on October 23, yes, and it was an interesting event so player #'s spiked.
Before that, the next biggest spike was the November 14 2012 (and its following weekend) guild hall update.
But the biggest spike was not the gunner update but July 30: the release of battle sprites.. Gunner update announcement didn't do anything, because well, it was an announcement and that was it. There are periodic spikes for weekends, but the next interesting non-weekend spike was December 11.

>Edit: Click on the 48 hours timelaps too! it tells a wonderful story ^ ^

...what? People log on during the night and log off during the day? (North America)

>IDK but if I was a dev and looking at those stats, I would've done like Nick and moved to another game...

No, if you were a dev and your paycheck depended on it, you would be pushing to see what kind of new features would bring players into the game. Interesting content brings people into the game.

If you were tired of the game industry and its BS, then you'd quit.

You, you're just a gamer.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 15:37

#23

Dibsville

I still haven't accepted it

And my opinions won't change.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 16:58

#24

Sandwich-Potato

I'm pretty sure that a dedicated person who has devoted years to cultivating a community centered on a game, and probably helped cultivate similar communities in other games by the same companies wouldn't randomly quit just because there's less people.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 19:19

#25

Jeraxis

(Oh how fragile complainers are.)

I have not accepted the change. I just don't . . . . . how do you say. . . . . Spam "BRING RADIANTS BACK! BRING RADIANTS BACK!" every 10 seconds. Besides, despite Making them SL and D27+ was probably (term used loosely on purpose) a bad call, in the end WHOSE CALL WAS IT?.
Three Rings Control Spiral Knights, not us. I DISAGREE with the choice, but even without reason, I have to RESPECT it.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 20:51

#26

Shamanalah

my 2 cents

But the biggest spike was not the gunner update but July 30: the release of battle sprites.

I meant energy update. My bad... but how is it cute? Obviously it doesn't take into account Kongregate or SK... Steam player peaked at 4k for the BS update... While it peak at 1.7k on regular basis... There are 1k at the end of the graph can't you see? It's at it lowest... for Steam side...

It's also funny to see the influx of people during SD Flash Sale... you can't even see it unless you know it (one year after GH update)

If you can't read a graph and find it cute that I link one it is not really my problem... You can see any graph any way you want it too... and yeah it's funny to see the timezone shift of people... I wonder if you could see it in-game via Haven... like the population shifting from Haven 1-8 to 8-15 to 25 to IDK... XD

Again, you can make out a lot with graphs... or say they are cute and move on...

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 03:27

#27

Root-Beer-Float

No?

I haven't accepted it. I have played this game since the beta/preview event. I simply don't do anything but login and attempt to sell the rest of my inventory.

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 03:54

#28

Seiran

"Cute" is unrelated to the quality or relevance of the graph. I'm not discarding it by any means, gamer. I forgot to mention it too, but the shard bomb update and the previous 'weapon update' (the one that increased gun+bomb damage) barely pushed up anything (HAH @ everyone who thinks gunner update's gonna push players).

Gaming population going down over time is normal if nothing interesting happens. It's only expected since they haven't released any updates that people care about for a while.

In fact, if anything, looking at the graph and putting it in context of the announcements and feature updates shows what kind of features players would come back for.

It's too bad it can't view 2011's numbers. I was really interested in seeing what kind of effect the boss additions had on the game.

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 09:34

#29

Paweu

@Aurorra

You clearly haven't even played PSO2 because if you did, you wouldn't suggest something as silly as boxes for 700 energy: you are only guaranteed a costume out of the scratch if you pay 500 yen (around 5USD), for 200 yen (around 2USD) you get only a chance at them, you will more likely get some worthless item, in terms of SK, let's say something as useless as a heat amp (talking about meseta boost) which is as useless and works only for 30 minutes.

Also, about the OOO boxes; SEGA is hundreds of people, OOO is maybe a dozen so it only makes sense stuff is lower quality and at snail pace. The budget? Does it even need mentioning? The game setting and art doesn't also allow for more detailed stuff than what the base is because they would stand out like turds on a walk. About PSO2, it's amazing it is making SEGA money, the game is pretty much trashed across the web called and called クソゲー. SEGA is basically the japanese EA/Zynga. Guess paedophilia in wet bathtowels sells.

Another thing worth mentioning is that if the the boxes were so cheap, the market would be saturated and for players rarity also means a lot when it comes to vanity. It also means less crowns per dollar spent, if they buy them to convert. Potential buyers? No such thing.

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 19:02

#30

Aurorra

@Paweu

Now you're just reaching.

1) You realize 700 CE is 2 USD right?
2) Those non-costume non-accessory items you can get can be more valuable than some of the less popular costumes and accessories, and at the very least their value is backed up just on virtue of being an item from the AC Scratch. That meseta boost you so deride used properly can you as much as a costume.
3) The big ticket items are the accessories, so no one's playing the more expensive scratch that only contains costumes.

You can continue pursuing your vendetta against PSO2 if you'd like, but the facts are Sega's business model allows for that game to have regular content updates with none of it locked behind pay walls, you can't say the same about Spiral Knights.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 16:23

#31

Autofire

You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

I agree with Jeraxis.

Why have people accepted the fact that radiants are gone? It's game-breaking for me, I might actually be playing SK regularly if I could play with my new 5* items.

I haven't accepted it, but there is nothing to do. What am I supposed to do to say that I don't accept it? Pull out the pitchforks? Whine on the forums all the time? Those aren't very civilized (or mature!) actions.

I'm mainly just sorta not playing the game as much. That's my response. I have plenty of 5* items which I want to build and am ready to build, but I'm holding off until this is fixed.

EDIT: Shamanalah, remember that not everyone plays SK on Steam. I don't (most of the time).

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 19:32

#32

Hexzyle

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/89228792/radiantcomplaint.png

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 23:39

#33

Neoretro

I'm thinking they can't NOT see all these posts, what with them decorating the forums like spots on a dalmation... which was then drip-painted by Jackson Pollock!

Poor analogies aside, I figure there are enough disgruntled ramblings to go on with while I sit around playing Metroid Prime and eating Cheetos until I'm fat and orange enough to be Garfield.

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It's sad that people have accepted the stupidity of the radiant crystal removal.