Test Feedback: Weapon Adjustments Round 1

Also, while we're giving the cutter line some love, I'll echo a suggestion I've seen bouncing around in various media channels:

Change the Fang of Vog into the Elemental 5* Cutter.

Let's be honest, the existing Fang of Vog is a dead meme weapon with no real use, and it has been forever. It's a worse brandish which lights you on fire, for funny points.

However, modifying the Fang of Vog to fill the "elemental cutter" niche would instantly pull it out of direct competition with the brandish line, and give players a fun new sidegrade option for battling the many constructs and undead wandering the world. It would complete the specialized damage trifecta, giving cutter lovers all three options to choose from (shadow/pierce/elemental). It even has the right model already.

This would take a touch more work than adjusting some numbers, but honestly it's a change I would wholeheartedly support. I think it'd be fun to have!

Fang of Vog needs to remain his own line of Weapon, Not a Calibur(althought is clasified as one is different on behaviour), not a Cutter, not a troika, not a sealed, not a Flourish, Not a Brandish, not a Rockethammer, not a Spur...
Fang of Vog must be the Fang of Vog of the Fang of vog line. It's very own thing, if needs a buff well lets buff it. but it's own identity. Not another colour(damage type) of something else.

Fang of Vog is already a watered down version of nothing (worse Combuster, slower three-step attack with a significantly worse charge attack).

It would benefit a lot from a retrofit.

@Spark-Of-Kill

You are misusing the phrase "I and many others..." to give your personal (singular) opinion false authority, which is a bit dishonest and deceptive. Keep that in mind.

The WHB and DVS changes are excellent, and long overdue to buff the otherwise useless but very unique cutter lines. The attack speed and pattern are enough of a differentiator vs. other shadow swords, regardless of damage parity. Well done.

@Retrofit +1 on the FoV suggestion, elemental fire cutter would be excellent. It could keep the same Leviathan style charge attack which would solve Jcyrano's complaints about uniqueness.

@Retrofit: I'm using FoV in fiend arenas vs greavers (the bats). You can just stand in the center and charge and they come to you. Then you release charge and they all die at once. However, if it would be changed, this can also be done with many other spin swords that don't inflict stun, just it may take two or three charge attacks without the extra fire etc.. On my alt, I use Cold Iron Vanquisher for that and it works, too. (Stun is a problem, as always, because stunned Greavers don't come back to you at the same speed. So you either get hit from the unstunned ones before all are close or your spin just hits the unstunned ones and the stunned ones then arrive to hit you. Tested with Sweet Dreams aka Pillow, which inflicts stun, unfortunately.)

@Retrofit
You're so off course I don't even know where to begin.

Yes, DVS is currently one of the worst weapons in the game. The main reason for this is it's inability to stagger monsters despite being such a close range weapon. This was thoroughly explained in the video you yourself linked. The singular best change in this patch is the flinching mechanics on both the Cutter charge attack and the third swing of the basic attack chain. I literally said this in my first feedback reply if you decide to go and actually read it.

Normal damage is an "inferior" damage type compared to the others, this much is true. However, simply switching weapons off of normal damage does not resolve anything (yes it's split dmg which is the better scenario, but that's besides the point). This change more or less sweeps the problem under the rug.

Even then, you completely missed the point of that first reply. The change to DVS damage removes weapon variety by getting rid of the only normal/poison weapon in the game, and in return, giving us yet another shadow/poison. This sword fills no niche that isn't already occupied by an existing weapon. (Yes it does technically add variety in the sense of giving us a new shadow damage sword, which is needed. But like I said, the best of both worlds would be to have DVS on normal damage, and a new cutter like that covers shadow damage)

Also, "fun" is subjective. Some players enjoy having well rounded weapons that work well against all monster families without having to pay attention to resistances. This is literally the point of normal damage.

@Thats-Rough-Buddy
I can personally attest to at least 5 different people (all with their own playstyles and experiences with the weapon), not including myself, and not including every other player in the game who also shares the same opinion about DVS. (Some of whom have commented on this very forum thread) So "I and many others" is actually an accurate and honest statement. Quit whining just because you disagree with my opinion.

Fang of Vog currently does not need any changes. It's one of the most unique weapons in the game and the self inflicted fire is a strong part of its personality. (I mean a dmg buff on regular attacks would be nice I suppose, but in my opinion brandishes should instead be brought down a few pegs)

If you want a fire cutter, ask for a new cutter type. Just like I said about DVS, such a change would reduce weapon variety by switching a sword which already has a strong identity of its own to: "elemental variant of existing weapon type". It's just a bad suggestion.

Maybe actually test the weapons, instead of immediately getting defensive and personal over a small pile of abstract text hypotheticals. Yet another long-winded emotional screed doesn't add anything of value to the discussion.

Having actually used both the new DVS and the new WHB in full/near full parties in the preview server now, these things are insanely fun. I feel like I'm running around with chainsaw swords. DVS holds its own very well now in slime and gremlin levels, miles better than it ever did as a normal dud weapon. WHB is frankly the new best-in-slot sword for fiends/beasts with these numbers, it absolutely shreds and devours anything with any pierce weakness.

I almost hate to say this, but while these new cutters are super fun to use, I do worry that they might actually be slightly overtuned with these numbers. Just slightly, not by a lot. A single WHB kinda just eats everything in front of it in fiend/beast levels, even in a full party. I do love how the new cutters feel to play, and honestly I'm OK with them displacing older long-standing meta weapons (we could use a shakeup to the meta), but even then, they might be leaning on the OP side right now.

The thought of changing back Dread Venom Striker to normal damage just makes zero sense to me. Normal damage has just been the meme for years because of how bad it is since it excels at nothing. In Spark-Of-Kill's ranking videos, he talks about how a normal damage that is mediocre everywhere is just worse than having a weapon that excels something.

Just because the Dread Venom Striker isn't quite up to pace with the Acheron and Obsidian Edge doesn't mean that we have to cut the idea of having another shadow sword, as the options are limited right now, with brandishes and the Gran Faust being the only options. I think the more popular opinion is to nerf Acheron's light attack damage down to be in line with Combuster/Voltedge/Glacius/Obsidian Edge since those swords don't cause statuses on their light attacks either. It would be really fun to have an agile shadow sword to play around with, and people seem to report that it has decent use cases such as against menders and giant lichen colonies.

Yes, this is the only normal/poison weapon in the game, but almost nobody picks normal damage over a special damage type anyway, so the Dread Venom Striker would just sink into irrelevance because it doesn't excel anywhere. 95% of the time, people are using the weapons that dish out the most damage, and only using weapons that deal less damage just to mix it up a little bit. With a shadow Dread Venom Striker, it can both mix it up and put out a ton of damage.

People suggest making another cutter that does shadow damage instead, maybe with a sleep status or something which I think would be really cool, but I don't think it is very likely that Grey Havens will make this sword. I think we have a better chance at at a shadow cutter by just making the Dread Venom Striker shadow than if we just hope that Grey Havens will make a sword that a few people requested.

We're kind of going on a tangent, but I would also mention that balancing anything around Acheron is a fool's errand, because Acheron is severely overpowered, and has been for years, by virtue of having heavy sword damage numbers on a medium weapon. I'm not sure how that sword has escaped the nerfbat for so many years, but it's not a good benchmark for comparing other gear. A more reasonable damage comparison would be something like the Obsidian Edge (which actually has appropriate damage numbers for a brandish line).

Acheron frankly needs to go on the chopping block at some point, it's been a performance outlier for a long time for no particularly good reason (to the point where it even outperforms elemental brandishes versus constructs, which are supposed to be specifically weak to elemental). I would just give it Obsidian Edge's stats (lower damage, inflicts poison), to bring it in line with the rest of the brandish series. Obby edge would still be special by virtue of being a cool event reskin.

I think GH should add a flag to knights that limits them to equipping proto gear and everyone in this thread, who suggested nerfing something, should have that flag enabled permanently 😉

It would be interesting, thematically it makes sense, although I'd definitely like it as a separate weapon; you could give the current FoV a new identity that also thematically makes sense (basically new model new name but also connected to general Almirian theme, maybe could be the spear they use or something as an example) and the old one could be used as the aforementioned elemental cutter

Likewise if we want a pure normal damage cutter I am more in favor of making it a brand new weapon that does pure normal, more than what the current DVS deals. DVS being normal/shd thematically makes sense, likewise with how WHB is normal/piercing

On another note I do agree they might be just a little bit overtuned on basic attack? One of my main concerns really is WHB vs Flourish line primarily, Flourishes in general could maybe use a small buff to be more in line with it and perhaps cutter line in general could have its damage ramp up higher the more you commit on swings? (basically lower the damage a bit of current first couple swings but buff the last swings a bit)
Would make the cutter line more of a high risk/high reward weapon and Flourish would retain it's spot in being a sidegrade to WHB as a more consistent and safer option

I do agree as well that DVS/WHB charge attack could use a small tune up as well in form of slightly more range thats more visually correct, feels like the swings that should connect aren't connecting

Also, yes, agreed, nerf Acheron, buff Gran Faust more. I would argue that the entire sealed sword line needs to do more on basic attacks. You could maybe give Acheron chance of curse on charge and make it more in line with Obsidian Edge

Diskguns
-I'm indifferent on the changes, I'm fine with mixers/orbits keeping what they have now and not having the same features as mandolin does, but also if you do apply the changes I'd be ok with it too. However the first option doesn't affect anyone while the other could upset those who grinded/spent a lot of time and money to get those guns.

Troikas
- I'm liking the buffs to them and I could see myself using it in certain levels. I do think they feel a little underwhelming still, but I'm not sure giving it even more damage is the play as that would make it way too strong. One big issue i have is the knockback on the charge and had a suggestion of instead of the charge knocking enemies away it would suction them into the spot of the slam. If the charge can't one shot the mob it should allow for follow ups instead of us having to chase around the enemies that got sent to Narnia.

Cutters
- Very good, almost too good. I'm a big fan of seeing cutters get split damage and having shadow and piercing variants for them as normal only just doesn't feel great. They excel at single target which I think is their intended roles and still retain the risk factors of combo-ing into mobs. Honestly, they do feel a bit overtuned in damage (they are shredding everything) and i could see them getting a very slight nerf to their damage. If it's possible, I'd also like to see the lunge forward from the normal attacks have a shorter distance.

Overall good changes so far, excited to see more balancing for swords and other weapons. WHB seems to be the best pierce sword now by far and I'm curious to see if flourish receives any buffs/changes, especially with how big the gap between it and WHB is now.

DVS tends to outdamage Acheron

This seems counterintuitive as DVS has poison status, and is a light(er) weapon. I'd expect it to be "restricted" by the two features, yet the DVS does more damage than a medium-style weapon that deals no status, Acheron. If Acheron is getting buffed too, then great. But atm the DVS doesn't seem to scale/balance when comparing the two. It is a well deserved buff for the striker line, as I rarely ever use light swords due to their competition (acheron, in most situations basically)

Similarly, wild hunting blade tends to outdamage flourish. I'm assuming this is due to the normal damage split. Albeit it feels like the inherent damage bonus against beasts would lower the WHB damage. I expected the Flourish to do more damage since it doesn't have the Damage bonus. An even better comparison would be a light piercing sword with inherent status. The Fearless Rigadoon is the perfect example, yet the damage gap is much greater here. If Flourish line is getting a buff similar to the striker line then it balances out. Anyways, I like being able to use the WHB to strike down greavers, it was a bit of a chore to take out any enemy pre-update (both WHB and DVS) the damage numbers were too low, so staggering/flinching mobs was difficult so I'd pick other weapons, namely the mixmaster since develites don't hop around.

I'm gonna miss being able to shoot devilites and mechaknights without having them jump around or put their shields up.

As for the conversation of gran faust and acheron, I'd like to point out the gran faust and divine avenger should have matching damage numbers if they are changed later on. DA has no status effect, and GH has a balanced approach, it can deal curse status to enemies AND self (Like the fang of vog). Also, there's a reason ppl bring it up, its right in the middle of the light and heavy swords, gran faust and dread venom striker. The acheron should feel balanced between the two swords. Yet it does the same damage as the GF, while having a medium-sword speed (for lack of a better phrasing)

To summarize, the buffs are great, it makes the striker line usable, where it wasn't before. It now contends against some really good swords. Initially I had the idea of "this is too much" but after testing I'd argue "lets buff more swords" and balance the current system. As previously stated, the lighter swords were very niche weapons in my arsenal. I finally like taking out the striker-line delving in the clockworks :)

Hello, apparently this is a brand new account in terms of the forums. Hey hi hello. You've likely seen me on various discords and the subreddit as Blitz342. Anyway, I'm gonna dig into this because I have a strange passion for game balance and an advocate for options.

Here are my thoughts, going down the list of changes.

• Mixmaster, Celestial Orbitgun: Modernized disk bullets.
Having never owned an Orbitgun or a Mixer, I have no say in this.

• Troika, Kamarin, Grintovec: Swing speed and damage increased.
• Khorovod, Sudaruska, Jalovec, and Triglav: Slight increase to speed.
It appears that Sudaruska and Triglav (and presumably the 4*s as well) received a damage bonus just like the Troika and the 3* versions. This was observed by comparing them to the unchanged reskins, the slime crushers. Was this intentional? It is certainly a welcome change and allows them to do more damage against neutral targets than the Sealed Sword lines, which imo is a good standard for normal damage. Doing slightly better against neutral targets than their specialized counterparts. Good changes overall.

• Gran Faust: Reduced charge time.
On one hand, it's a good change that the abnormally long charge time for Gran Faust was brought in line with its DA counterpart. It never really made sense why it was so long.
On the other hand, it still inflicts self-curse, and unless you're running armor/sprite perk/trinkets with curse resistance, there is no reason to use the charge attack. The opportunity cost of equipping curse resistant equipment is too great to justify bringing it just to use the Gran Faust's charge attack.

• Cutter, Striker: Damage increased.
• Hunting Blade, Wild Hunting Blade: Added piercing damage.
From what I've seen, wild hunting blade has become an absolute monster, especially in solo play. Having the first normal/pierce split damage weapon in the game is neat. The problem is that it now outclasses Flourishes in damage in just about every scenario. Perhaps if the ratio of normal:piercing damage was adjusted, reallocating some of that damage to normal damage? Or maybe only the phantom wolvers dealt piercing (pure? split? Not sure how the math would work out)?

Another issue is that the dmg bonus vs. Beasts will often be minimized to low or completely negated due to the use of BK/Chaos (which shouldn't have their buffs adjusted, but that's an issue for another day). In general, I believe monster-specific buffs should apply beyond the standard +6 (Maximum!) effect cap.

• Vile Striker, Dread Venom Striker: Added shadow damage.
*The phantom/minor swings still have less range than the regular swings*
I'm conflicted because I both love this change because of how it can rival Acheron in terms of single-target damage when using the main combo, but also mourn the loss of the only normal damage poison sword, as Spark-of-Kill said. It's now yet another shadow poison weapon. It has more total damage from its combo against neutral targets than Acheron, but it takes longer to get that combo out. One problem is that Acheron needs to be reigned in, as it still has Gran Faust damage values despite it being a faster 3-hit combo sword.

While the DVS change does not put another weapon type into the corner, as WHB does to Flourishes, the loss of a normal damage poison sword is sad to see.

Proposals for additional misc. tweaks to the weapons changed in this round of adjustments:
-Sudaruska, Triglav: Let the rocks deal some damage again, like they used to when Khorovod was the final sword in the troika line. If that's too much damage, then perhaps give them the ability to stun/freeze, respectively. The goal being to make them more than simply cosmetic/noise.

- DVS's range should be raised to equal WHB's
- The entire cutter line of swords still suffer from vulnerability. I suggest giving the 3rd, 4th, and 5th main swings increasingly higher stagger/flinch capability. To reward committing to a whole combo. Perhaps decrease the delay before the final swing of the charge attack as well.

I look forward to further rounds of rebalancing, and hope for the opportunity to have discussions with the GH team about said adjustments. Keep it up, everyone :)

Yea charging speed was increased but I never liked it. I think giving the charge attack's initial sword swing a bit more range would make it better, like Troika line 1st swing range.

I like most if not all the changes made here. Wild Hunting Blade feels incredible to use now. Suda damage is a little harder to gauge since the difference is smaller but I hear it's good.

Dread Venom Striker seems pretty divisive here. I personally like how it feels a lot now. I like having another weapon that actually deals somewhat reliable status on normal hits unlike other status weapons which tuck their status away behind their charge attacks. I do, however, agree with the notion that a normal variant of this deserved to exist.

I would be disappointed if we completely lost this new weapon though. I know it'd be kinda redundant, but maybe give us an alternative that keeps normal damage, or revert DVS and then give a shadow poison alternative or something? It's a weird issue to resolve to be honest. I really like the new DVS, but it'd be nice to have a good normal status weapon but it'd also be weird for cutter to branch into both a shadow poison AND normal poison weapon, wouldn't it? If we had to pick one, I'd honestly prefer shadow poison though. Feels great blending slimes and gremlins with this thing.

Edit: Moments after writing this I remembered turbillion existed. Turbillion always felt similar to cutters in a way, so maybe we give Turbillion a new poison line and then it's like the old DVS never left but instead got better while retaining its normal damage? Or shock, or freeze. Put any status on that while keeping it normal and I think we'd have a decent normal status niche filled again.

I missed the discussion about FoV and given it's my favorite weapon I do want to chime in.

I like the way FoV functions right now. Slower calibur swings but extra range feels nice. The charge attack is strong. The weapon's power, however, is still to low to compete with contemporaries mainly due to the sacrifice of both attack speed and damage for extra range and fire really don't balance out. The thing does less damage on hit than a brandish and the fire on normals, though it has a decent proc chance, rarely does enough damage to make up for the lower base damage. You'd have to actively wait and let the monster take fire damage instead of just hitting it more for it to ever make up for it and that's assuming it even procced to begin with.

The charge attack is very strong, but I don't think that the enormous amount of fire damage you risk taking is really worth it. Safely running this thing for the charge attack requires you either only use it when you have a remedy capsule ready or dedicate all your armor and trinkets to resisting fire. The self damage gets BRUTAL and for what? A charge that's just arguably as strong as a brandish charge? Brandish doesn't punish me for its charge and is generally stronger and way more spammable.

If I saw FoV changed, I'd like its base damage to at LEAST match brandish swings and for the charge attack to either deal a lot more damage or become less punishing.

The changes to the weapons have been amazing, and I'm glad that after over a decade, weapons that were long left behind are finally being revitalised. Off the bat, both Troikas and Strikers have been made way more rewarding for their riskier use, while the flinching being added to Dread Venom Striker has also ailed prior issues with the weapon. These changes are a step in the right direction, with a few more tweaks before perfection. Mixmaster and Orbitgun seeing tweaks, fingers crossed to bring them in line before a large drop is also a sight for sore eyes, we're polishing out the stains on the game!

That said, reading the replies to this had me feeling a way. I have a lot of words for many of you (don't worry I'm not going to bite, but please reconsider where you stand after reading my chime-ins.)

Also, I have too much to say so I have to split this across multiple posts.

@Zosu

> Don't touch Mixmaster and Celestial Orbitgun. People will quit for good.

> I've been playing every day for like 9 years. I cannot stress this enough, Mandolin projectiles are a downgrade to Mixy/Orbit. Do not touch them.

These weapons have been problematic for over a decade, these changes were long overdue. There are a handful of bugs that were to be squashed around these guns, and if this brings them closer to being more readily available for all players, these changes are for the better. Also, Mandolin is quite respectable, even strong which is good. I'm not sure why you think so lowly of the weapon. I've seen in the past you have it out for Grey Havens amending the lack of enemy reaction to the bullets but this was evidently a mistake from day 1. They need to properly balance the guns (mostly just fix the existing issues like enemies not reacting) before distributing them to the wider playerbase. There shouldn't be paid variants that are different from free variants.

@Top-Platinum

> Just a reminder about the Acheron, currently dealing more damage than it should with normal swings. It should be the same as all the other Brandish swords.

Acheron does more damage because it lacks a status, compared to its elemental counterparts. It originally did do the same damage but if my memory serves, this was increased to match Gran Faust after the release of Obsidian Edge. This is generally the rule for weapon families with different variants with statuses. E.g. Plague Needle does less damage than Blitz Needle due to it having poison, and against neutral targets, Supernova does more damage than the other three variants of pulsar.

@Spark-Of-Kill

> Personally I thought [Troikas] were "fine" before.

Troika line was extremely overshadowed by pretty much every non normal damage sword. They are too risky to use and the damage they output was not significant enough to pick up over other options. They absolutely needed the buff. The damage output now makes them worth considering.

> I and many others would prefer Dread Venom Striker to remain a pure normal damage weapon.

I would like to see a poll to really gauge how large this group of "many" are, as the cutter line has does see very much play from players who have reached a certain level of experience. This is because the line is greatly held back by being normal damage, gutting its usability. It would be nice to have more poison options outside of shadow damage, I will concede, but I've only seen a few loud voices on this matter, and besides, the damage loss against fiends and undead is well worth the trade off because now it blends the other family types (there is a damage gain even on neutral enemies), and you can just use Wild Hunting Blade if you *really* want a cutter into fiends.

> Please revert the changes made to the projectile speed on Divine Avenger and Gran Faust.

This should happen, the projectiles need to carry the enemies to do damage.

@Holy-Nightmare

I have to say that I believe the normal dmg-poison niche is really overstated. I've seen a few times people manufacture scenarios like the following:

> Both slimes and gremlins tend to bunch and clump up leading to situations where single target focused damage isn't that useful...

What does this have to do with the damage type or poison? The issue in this scenario would be weapon choice, this just makes it more effective in specific scenarios to give it value. And if you REALLY wanted to use poison, near every other poison weapon is a better fit for AoE scenarios. Not to mention that there are only really two families available for shadow sword (Brandish/Sealed). Another option would be appreciated more than the potential-man that is normal/poison DVS.

@Picothea

> If you stand in opposition to these [mixmaster/orbitgun] changes, you’re asking for the game to be stagnant in its quality.

I don't think there's a better way to put it. Eloquently done. Some items in this game have acquisitions so poor it actually negatively affects the quality of this game. Items with unique mechanics and stats being put behind lootboxes only to be made even scarce due to lack of redistribution is incredibly bad, and if we are looking to rebalance the game, this is the first thing that should be solved. Somnambulist Totem should be the next to be looked at.

@Fangel

> That being said, Dread Venom Striker is definitely the worst shadow sword in the game, competing with very strong swords like Gran Faust and Acheron.

DVS is absolutely shredding with its basic attacks at the moment. It might not be crazy to say it's the worst shadow sword, but when you effectively have 3 options (post change), the 3rd option being the worst isn't so bad. And again, it's not so far behind like the competition if you consider it to be. Definitely way better than its previous position in the game's meta.

> The swing from a Sudaruska dealt comparable damage to a Gran Faust in a brief lockdown test my partner and I tried

I'm not really sure why you would be doing tests in lockdown and sacrifice performance in the main game. The last time we had the game's weapons change around lockdown we lost damage on Polaris, and attack range on Flourishes, with the latter being felt to this day. I'm very against lockdown being used to dictate the shape of the balancing. Lockdown has a host of its own problems that should be ironed out first before making these sorts of moves.

Didn't address it before but being able to shield cancel the striker charge attacks would be a welcome change.

@Mergu-Md

> A way to satisfy current mixmaster / orbitgun owners is to mark the existing items as "(Legacy)"

This would not be a healthy change for the game when it's slowly being phased out of the game. Please don't suggest this thoughtlessly.

@Amnimonus

> Dread venom striker is good, maybe too good, it does more damage per hit on the regular attacks than the Acheron even before poison status.

Acheron is really strong and brandishes were designed to be a middle ground of bombs and swords. Dread Venom Striker is primarily a single target mower. It's okay for the weapon to have a lot of damage in its basic attacks.

I agree with your assessment regarding damage calculation in the game as a whle, though flourishes were already on the weaker side (Acheron outdamaging them~ whoops!) I don't have much of a solution but it would be nice to see something to address it, your ideas would be a nice starting point.

@Retrofit

Thank you, thank you, thank you! I said this earlier in this post but it really is true, DVS just does not work at the moment. The shadow changes opens up so much more for it.

I'm split on the elemental Cutter Fang of Vog for some emotional reasons I don't even understand. The game designer brain in me knows its for the better but some other part of me doesn't want it to change, maybe I'm closer to the normal DVS agenda maintainers than I realise. But yeah, would probably be for the greater good to just change it to a cutter.

@Spark-Of-Kill

> The main reason for this is it's inability to stagger monsters despite being such a close range weapon.

Inability to flinch is a large part of why the DVS didn't work, but even if you changed nothing else, the weapon would still underperform because it wouldn't be able to hit enemy flinching/staggering thresholds due to its low damage. The split damage scaling helps alleviate this issue.

> The change to DVS damage removes weapon variety by getting rid of the only normal/poison weapon in the game, and in return, giving us yet another shadow/poison.

As for the weapon variety issue, weapon variety is fake and shallow if the weapons supposedly adding variety do not perform to a level that players are willing to use. Dread Venom Striker was way below the performance threshold for most players, and as I stated way earlier in this post, this is unfortunately the case.
I can appreciate that you and five others use the weapon, however there are hundreds more that don't even look at it, and it's not because it's a sleeper hit.
I won't reiterate on the gameplay issues I see on insisting on using DVS for poison. It has something like a 5% chance to poison on normal attacks, it's not even reliable at doing this thing that supposedly makes it worth picking up. Venom Veiler. Also, reminder that there are effectively TWO shadow swords in the game. Acheron, its echo fighter, Obsidian Edge, and Grand Faust. The variety from having the shadow DVS far outweighs this poison/normal damage niche.

@Retrofit

You are right about Acheron being a balance nightmare, but due to the way damage of weapons tend to work as I covered earlier on in this post, it has to do more damage than its elemental counterparts to make up for its lack of status. I'm not really sure what the solution would be.

@Looney-Dragon

> DVS tends to outdamage Acheron

I believe this to be okay for basic attacks. Acheron still has a vastly superior charge attack to DVS which makes them more balanced respective to each other.

> Similarly, wild hunting blade tends to outdamage flourish.

I touched on this earlier, I'm not sure what the course of action is here. I wouldn't want to gut WHB from its tentatively nice spot. Maybe if they do a pass on Flourishes going forward to try solving this dilemma.

question mark

i love the changes to Wild Hunting Blade and Dread Venom Striker. cant wait to try them on live game

FoV normal attacks are functionally fine as they are. You don't need to completely replace the way it attacks to make the weapon good. Having extra range makes it handle crowds of enemies with its normal attacks better as you can more consistently hit 2 or 3 enemies at once. The problem it faces is purely that the damage it trades for fire isn't remotely worth it and the charge attack's self fire is too punishing for what it offers. I genuinely don't understand how just removing this unique offshoot of a calibur would actually be a reasonable change. Just because it has the model of a striker? Just make a different elemental striker, don't completely remove an entire weapon. How about a shock striker? That'd be pretty useful for that style of weapon, imo. I would be extremely sad if they actually replaced FoV with another cutter.

Played a bit more of the test server. Yeah I really like the changes with the DVS and WHB. I still kinda wish DVS was changed to piercing because I just want more options to fight against fiends. I still do think that another cutter line should be introduced that focuses on elemental or normal damage with some sort of status effect like freeze or fire.

After playing with the Gran Faust for a bit with divine set, I do think that the amount of time you get self-cursed should be toned down a bit. I'm still not too sure about the change because it's great that GF charges up quicker but it's still a high risk weapon to use the charge attack. Maybe make it so self-curse doesn't affect the Gran Faust itself or removing the self-curse entirely.

Regarding FoV since it has been brought up so much. FoV should probably get a visual redesign if a lot of people confuse it with the cutter line. FoV is a unique weapon type on how it functions and should probably get it's own weapon design.

Overall, I find the changes to be great but it just made me want a cutter line that focuses on defeating fiends.

If there is a weapon adjustment round 2 I would like to see Turbillion be normal and elemental with shock. Thanks!

There's obviously going to be further rounds of weapon adjustments. We don't need to discuss FoV or Turb yet. Since we are, IMO the only change FoV needs is to be able to apply strong fire with it's standard attacks. Currently only the charge applies strong fire.

Anyone who thinks that people will quit the game if orbit/mixers projectiles are fixed to not be an exploit that bypasses how enemies are supposed to behave when they get shot at, is clearly playing the game for their own reason.
If your only reason to play Spiral Knights is that you enjoy broken weapon interactions that let you cheese certain types of enemies, I don't know what to tell you.

This thread was created to get feedback on the current round of balance changes. Let's try to not dilute the pool of actual feedback by talking about other weapons or making requests for future balance change tests. Fill this thread with well-thought feedback (hopefully AFTER actually trying the weapons) so that balance changes are done right.

All of us know that there's more to discuss, and the time for that will come. Let's be patient and take the balance changes one step at a time.

I feel like people are confusing matters regarding Fang of Vog.

It visually looks like a cutter but it is a completely different weapon. It has never behaved like a cutter-line sword.

NAs are like a normal sword (brandish/calibur), CA is akin to calibur-line but with more hits and way better damage, and lastly it can self-inflict a status effect.

Imo the best way forward for FoV (if it gets visually updated) would be to change its appearance to something else entirely and give the current FoV visual to a new cutter-line for consistency purposes. That new Fire Cutter (whatever it would be called) could be an Elemental + Fire status version of WHB/DVS, giving us 1 of each dmg type for the quick weapons.

Changing how a weapon functions has nothing to do with it becoming more readily available for all players. GH can just put it in depot for 3500E and it's available alright. Doing this with Mixy/orbit will not break the game. It will actually make it more fun for a while, maybe forever. These guns are around for like 10 years and they did not break anything. They are part of the experience. You guys are so delusional.

Picking a weapon that's good for a task is part of the game. For Vana you bring Blitz if you have it and for devilites you bring Mixy if you have it. What you don't bring is Mandolin. That's because it's a trash gun. And now, instead of making the best weapon for the task more available, some of you weirdos want to cripple it to make sure there is no best weapon any more. Do you want to nerf Blitz too maybe? It makes Vana clearly too easy, following your naïve logic. Maybe remove poison and curse from the game, because that makes the Jelly King too easy? Oh and let's remove bombs from the game, because they make compounds too easy.

If the goal is, to make my teammates spark as much as possible, because they can't hit the devilites while I shoot and the devilites hit them instead, then you're right on track.

@Megalianae

Thank you for having good opinions, listen to this guy, especially on his take about the DVS. However, you are wrong about the Acheron. The charge attack has a good amount of damage because it doesn't deal status effects like the other brandishes. On the other hand, the light attacks are too high because no brandish has light attacks that deal statuses but the Acheron's light attacks deal more anyway.

Regarding the issues with the Gran Faust, I think the self-curse should be removed. That way the Gran Faust will benefit with being able to do curse to enemies as the Divine Avenger cannot, but the Gran Faust only has one projectile in its charge rather than three, which I think is a good trade-off.

People say the WHB is way too strong in comparison to the flourishes now, but I think it is a flourish issue, not a WHB issue. The flourishes' damages should get damage buffs and maybe increased reach because really the primary reason they have been considered good is because they were the only sword to deal piercing.

> Picking a weapon that's good for a task is part of the game. For Vana you bring Blitz if you have it and for devilites you bring Mixy if you have it. What you don't bring is Mandolin. That's because it's a trash gun. And now, instead of making the best weapon for the task more available, some of you weirdos want to cripple it to make sure there is no best weapon any more.

That isn't the weapon being good at a task, that's a bug. Devilites and mecha knights are supposed to react to bullets, them not reacting to the orbit and mixer needed to be fixed. My friend and I both use the mandolin on devilites, I did a few games last night with him and he used the mandolin exclusively against several levels with them. They'd dodge on disc, and get hit by all of the others he fired, there's nothing wrong with it. You just have to actually think when shooting at them now, that's all that changed. It really isn't that hard, and it isn't the end of the world that they're getting brought in line with the rest of the game.

Making devilites dodge is a way of manipulating enemy behavior, by making them dodge you prevent them from attacking briefly and for a short while they stop dodging. This is a way to help your teammates and allow them to use the opening to deal damage. Maybe if you had taken the time to think about more dynamic ways to interact with enemies and your teammates rather than thinking the gun needs to ignore enemy design norms or it's "garbage" and insulting people, you'd have realized this.

It is rather unpleasant to be called "delusional" and to have this discussion clogged with constant bad-faith arguments and the comment which mocks us and calls to ban us from using anything but proto gear. What nonsense.
Is there a way to complain to staff about another player on the forums? I think Zosu is being rather toxic.

Thread after thread, even in a bug report of mine, I have grown tired of seeing this user's comments insisting the Mandolin is not a "real" discgun, and that it is a "garbage" weapon unworthy of endgame content.
It is an incredible weapon. But even if we have to be strictly objective, to claim the Mandolin is bad comes off as a bad joke, and it has overstayed its welcome.

The Mixmaster and Orbitgun are in a bracket of overpowered performance that separates them from the rest of the game. It's not a matter of bringing the best tool for the job, which they would still be with their fixed bullets, it is a matter of making players engage with the game as intended. Nobody is asking to nerf the Blitz Needle, the Magnus line, bombs, whatever strawman comparison you make because those weapons have tangible tradeoffs and reward the player for adapting to different mechanics.

The discguns which have existed for so many years are not free of issues. Just because something hasn't been changed in years doesn't mean it's perfect. Otherwise this weapon adjustment test WOULD NOT BE HAPPENING, for ANY of these weapons. I hope we will soon hear the end of these bad arguments when the changes go live.

Divine Avenger got fixed, because it had a bug. Mixy and Orbit intentionally behave like this, though.

Zosu, you know this how? Do you have insider information from Three Rings claiming these 2 specific guns, for some reason, should not follow the logic of any other guns in the game? Do you believe there's some kind of plot where Grey Havens is betraying the goals of Three Rings?

For what reason would it be a bug that the Blitz Needle's charge attack has 15 bullets? According to the wiki, so do all of the 5-star autoguns. Stop throwing in random misleading information because you are upset.

Really loving the buffs to the Cutter lines getting turned into Hunting Blade Piercing and Venom Shadow damage as that sword line was the most fun to use for me but the normal damage left them stuck as meme weapons. (Haha please give us an Elemental Striker sword with shock effect named “Lighting Striker” next please Grey Havens?). Cutter line could maybe use a boost to the speed its charge attacks come out at? Its so long that using it is almost asking to get hit even against incredibly slow enemies like Trojans and Lumbers.

Gran Faust getting its charge attack time sped up is well overdue. The chance to curse yourself seems like enough of a downside especially when the meta armors all have negative curse resist, making the charge attack mostly unusable unless you run a loadout specifically to counter the curse.

Troika line getting sped up is also awesome. It probably won’t make them meta, but I’m hoping it makes them close enough to a sword version of the Iron Buster that remains a crazy weapon through raw damage.

Looking forward to seeing forgotten Elemental swords like Fang of Vog and Divine Avenger get a little love in this world of Brandish supremacy, as well as potential armor reworks in the future to see some really bad armors like Plate Mail to get… anything.

@Zosu

Saying that mixers are not broken is just a false statement. Most notably the charge attacks going through walls causing issues and breaking certain arenas, causing headaches for players and Game Masters.
I'm also not sure why you are insistent on enemies not reacting to bullets being intended, they've made Mandolin which is largely similar in function cause enemies to react. At this point the writing is on the wall - this was never intended.

Saying that it's part of the experience is not a compelling argument either, this just allows for complacency and lack of change, for example, the invisible bush that was present in the Ice Queen Shadow Lair was an issue for a decade, with your reasoning, it should have never been fixed last year.

You've also falsely equivocated intended game mechanics (poison/curse vs. Jelly King) with something unintended (unreactable mixer bullets). There's no real reason for Mixmaster and Orbitgun to be exempt from the universal game mechanic of... enemies reacting to projectiles.

@Mr-Poop-Poop

You know, after all these years I kind of just never considered the possibility of changing the damage scaling of the basic attacks and leaving the charge as is. Such a simple solution in front of me the whole time... But if it can be implemented, then yes, it should be done; Acheron damage tables of basic attacks to match Obsidian Edge/Elemental counterparts while the charge attack can retain its current higher damage.

I think the theming of the Faust line is cool but it just doesn't work in execution (this is also true of current Fang of Vog). These weapons start behind other weapons because you have to build defensive stats to utilise them properly. The self curse/fire is funny but hurts their usability significantly - at the very least reduce their self status to minor so building immunity (+4.5 status res) would be a step in the right direction if it was really wished to keep the self inflict for whatever reason.

WAHHHHHHHHHHHHH DDONT TOUCH MY MIXY WAHHHHHHHH 🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺. I EVEN CREATED MY OWN CUTE LITTLE NICKNAME FOR MY $1000 WEAPON CAUSE IM SO ATTACHED TO IT EVEN THOUGH I COULD SHORTEN IT TO "MIXER" LIKE EVERY OTHER NORMAL PERSON. 🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺. WAHHHHHHHHHHHH.

shut UP bro. GH please nerf this weapon into the ground or just delete it entirely, its owners are so irritating.

Is it possible to switch to a survey style feedback, the discussion system is great and all but we don't seem to have adequate moderation to keep the discussion on track.

Either way server appears to be updating soon wonder whats going to be changed.

oops

I agree with MOST of these changes, and I generally think that these are GOOD for the game, however:

The choice to swap out Dread Venom Striker's damage type has been a huge mixed bag for me. Normal Damage has had a negative reputation for a long time, for sure, but I DO NOT think that eliminating Normal Damage weapons 1 by 1 is what is going to fix the damage type.
My main problem isn't even the fact that Dread Venom at long last is getting buffed. My issue lies with the fact that the sword is essentially being REPLACED with no fallback options. Good luck ever trying to use it in King of Ashes again if you were a fan of that.
I think that simply RAISING the level of base damage would've sufficed, the damage swap was unnecessary.

While I'm on it, I might as well mention my concerns regarding the majority of Normal Damage weapons, which extends to other weapons that only use a single damage type.
It has been known for a while now that single-type weapons are at a severe disadvantage compared to split damage weapons, due to weird scaling shenanigans.
What I'd like to see in the future, and what I think would be the most correct solution, is if we were to give every pure-damage-type weapon a split damage type consisting of the same damage type in each category.
Where I'm going with this, is that Dread Venom Striker would've been a MUCH LESS divisive weapon if it was still pure Normal, while internally dealing some sort of "normal/normal split" damage type.
Similar change should be applied to all existing weapons of 1 damage type that currently get scrutiny or underperform: most notably Amputator and all Flourishes.

Regarding Gran Faust: the charge time in my opinion was always the LEAST of people's concerns, considering how often people use the charged attack to begin with.
In my opinion, it will be hard, if not impossible, to make Gran Faust a balanced weapon, without also addressing, or fixing, or outright reworking its hallmark mechanic, the Curse status.
For now though, I think that the least this weapon could do, is be guaranteed to inflict Curse on the immediate first hit, in the rare case that an enemy survives the full charge chain without catching on Curse; it won't redeem the weapon entirely, but it'll at least make the high risk attack slightly more worth using.

Also, regarding the Fang of Vog discourse: leave that weapon alone, there's nothing wrong with it. In fact I'd argue it's currently one of the most balanced weapon types in the game. Seriously the damage level is absurd.

In today's Spiral Knights, normal damage is unfortunately antiquated in design for the most part. 14 years ago it had some value as Arcade didn't have equipment stations, but most places in the game now allow you to swap weapons at the beginning of the depth. The game should instead encourage building wide arsenals.
It's difficult for normal damage to exist in the way it does and be healthy, this is because normal weapons have to be really strong to be relevant, which has the consequence of reducing meaningful variety. This can be seen with Mandolin for example, a strong weapon that can basically be taken everywhere. On the flip side, the less good options are mediocre and never see play.
I think reducing the number of normal damage weapons is the correct move here. Normal weapons are already pretty bloated, there's a lot of them and most of them do not provide meaningful value to accounts, some argue that they exist for newer players but I think giving newer players items with what's effectively an expiry date is worse for them than letting them specialize and begin building an expanded arsenal sooner. And this is before I even get to some normal weapons that are flat out terrible and/or completely replaced (Cold Iron Vanquisher/Amputator/Grand Tortofist / Valiance), not to mention the restrictiveness of crafting early on.

Changing some of the existing normal weapons to a different type can add variety in having more mechanical options to deal with different monster families. I keep harping on about how there is only really one piercing sword and two shadow swords but it really is a sore spot.

Hi, I wanted to mention my feedback. Overall, great changes!

Dread Venom Striker and Wild Hunting Blade

THE GOOD:
- Feels great and viable!
- The Shadow/Piercing damage being added to these weapons feel good. I do, however, wish to see Poison attached to a different damage type in the future!
- The charge having no knockback is awesome.

THE "MAYBE CHANGE":
- The charges of these weapons need to be faster and deal more damage OR be changed to where you aren't standing in place for it. The weapon is fast and is supposed to have high mobility, and the charge feels counterintuitive to that right now.
- The Dread Venom Striker poison proc could use a slight buff. Its mainly best for enemies that resist Shadow damage, but the poison feels like it won't proc until the enemy is dead.

Gran Faust

THE GOOD:
- Charge time is nice. It matches the Divine Avenger's now.

THE "MAYBE CHANGE":
- The Curse Self Inflict has to be changed in some type of way. It can be removed, able to be IMMUNE to, OR Curse just needs to be revamped in general because most people don't like how it works anyways lol
- The Status/Info window for the Gran Faust is incorrect. The speed is way lower than what it shows and doesn't match Divine Avenger's. Which, Status/Info windows should probably get a revamp

Triglav and Sudaruska

THE GOOD:
- Amazing damage buff. I fully believe Normal-Only Weapons should deal more damage to neutral enemies than the weapons that have Split Damage but the Split Damage weapons will always be better when fighting enemies weak to the non-Normal Damage. And with Split Damage receiving the Damage Bonus to both damages, it feels right for One Damage Type weapons to get damage buffs.
- The charge feels better with the damage increase.
- The speed isn't something I noticed too much of but im not against it!

THE "MAYBE CHANGE":
- They feel good to use, and I wouldn't mind the small speed buff to just be an even larger damage buff but that's not a big deal

Diskguns

The bullets were not intended to do what they did. Thank you for fixing them. That's all I care to say about them.

Other Stuff

I mentioned Heating Levels in a comment before. When upgrading a 4* Level 10 Weapon into a 5* Level 1 weapon, you lose out on damage. This damage isn't comparable until about 5* Level 7. Which is a huge jump. I would love to hear something from GH about this because its very disheartening to "downgrade" a weapon when you worked hard to upgrade it, especially for newer players. I know the forge update helped level up weapons, but you still have to take the time to heat those weapons.

That's all I have got to say, but thank you so much for bringing these changes to the Preview Server to let players like myself speak our opinions on them. Everyone here loves the game and just want better for it, and I hope the same goes for the Grey Havens team!

**Post Note**

This post is directed toward the developers and is intended to communicate my feedback on the current changes. It is not an invitation to debate, and I will not try to defend these opinions further in the replies.

I've considered these points carefully and stand by the feedback as presented. I will not be responding to comments after posting this, including attempts to argue against or challenge individual points. Others are free to discuss the feedback among themselves, but I won't be participating in that discussion.

My observations are primarily based on Elite solo play with the full BK set, so some conclusions may differ in multiplayer or with other equipment setups. I'm intentionally focusing on the changes in this current round; I'll look at the remaining weapons separately as they come.

**Diskguns**

**Preserving Weapon Functionality**

I'm generally in favor of leaving Mixmasters and Orbitguns as they are. I don't think they need to have the same functionality as the Mandolin, and preserving their current functionality seems like the safer approach.

**Investment and Player Expectations**

I wouldn't object to changes if there's a specific balance or design goal behind them, but changing the functionality of weapons people have already invested significant time or resources into could be frustrating. Unless there's a clear gameplay benefit, I'd prefer to leave them as they are. Even if they were not originally intended to work like this.

**Troikas**

**Buffs and Damage**

I'm enjoying the buffs and can see myself using them in certain levels, although they still feel somewhat underwhelming. I'm not convinced that more damage is necessarily the answer, since that could push them too far in the other direction.

**Charge Attack Knockback**

My biggest concern is the charge attack's knockback. I'd prefer it to pull enemies toward the impact point rather than launch them away. That would make the charge more useful as a setup tool, allowing follow-up attacks if it doesn't kill the target, instead of forcing the player to chase enemies across the room.

I think this would improve their effectiveness without simply adding more raw damage.

**Gran Faust / Divine Avenger**

**Charge Time & Divine Avenger Comparison**

The Gran Faust charge-time reduction is a good change and brings it closer to Divine Avenger. With Max CTR and Max ASI, I'm seeing roughly 3 seconds per charge on Preview versus 4 seconds on Live, which makes its unique Curse application much more consistent.

I use Divine Avenger frequently on Live, and its spread-shot charge gives it excellent crowd control and herding. Gran Faust now feels more comparable as the offensive alternative—a large blade that inflicts Curse—which I like.

**The Self-Curse & Build Investment**

However, I don't think the charge-time reduction addresses GF's main problem: the reward still doesn't justify the self-Curse.

I don't think the self-Curse should be removed either; the Bargain theme is one of the weapon's coolest features. The issue is that the drawback currently requires a substantial build investment without providing enough additional power in return.

Even a heavily Curse-resistant build can still get Cursed, while the alternatives can spend their equipment and perks entirely on offense. GF therefore spends much of its build compensating for its drawback just to reach a performance level that other weapons can achieve without that cost.

Curse-resistant enemies also resist GF's Shadow damage and are immune to its Curse, making that investment feel even less rewarding.

**Reward the Risk**

I'd rather see GF become strong enough to justify accepting the Curse than have the Curse weakened enough to be completely negated. The reduced charge time is a good step, but it still feels less like a "Deal with the Devil" and more like a scam.

**Projectile Speed**

As Spark pointed out, I'd also recommend reverting the projectile speed changes on both Divine Avenger and Gran Faust. The faster projectiles can pass through enemies too quickly and actually register fewer hits, reducing their damage. I like the shorter lingering time, but I'd prefer the previous projectile speed so the charge attacks can consistently register their intended hits.

**Cutters / Dread Venom Striker / Wild Hunting Blade**

**Cutter Specialization**

Overall, I really like the Cutter changes. The split damage and Shadow/Piercing variants give the line more meaningful specialization, and their strong single-target damage fits what I assume is their intended role. They also retain the risk of committing to their combos against groups, which I like.

**Cutter Damage**

That said, their current damage feels slightly overtuned, so I'd favor a small reduction rather than a major nerf. I'd also like to see the forward movement on their normal attacks reduced for better positioning control.

**Dread Venom Striker's Identity**

Separately, I don't think Dread Venom Striker should lose its Normal/Poison identity. Even if it wasn't always optimal, having a Normal-damage option in the Cutter line has some value, and DVS is uniquely positioned as the only Normal/Poison weapon. We already have plenty of Shadow/Poison options.

**Alternative Shadow Cutter**

I'd personally prefer DVS to remain Normal/Poison and have a new Cutter added to the crafting line to fill the Shadow role rather than converting DVS.

**Wild Hunting Blade Charge Time**

For Wild Hunting Blade, I'd also recommend reducing its base charge time. Previously, its slower charge made sense as part of the tradeoff for having flinch capability over DVS. Now that both Cutter lines can flinch with their charge attacks, WHB no longer has a corresponding advantage for its slower charge.

I'd keep the flinching and bring WHB's charge speed closer to DVS. This would preserve the new functionality while removing what now feels like an unnecessary disadvantage.

The recent update fixed regular shot damage for orbitgun, but
mixmaster charge attack is dealing the same damage as regular shots.

link
https://youtu.be/ZVKRwVUpOAY

Gran Faust charge buff is nice, but the regular swings still do as much damage as the acheron. I think it’s regular attack damage should be boosted past acheron’s, it is a slow sword after all.

@Megalianae
"In today's Spiral Knights, normal damage is unfortunately antiquated in design for the most part. 14 years ago it had some value as Arcade didn't have equipment stations, but most places in the game now allow you to swap weapons at the beginning of the depth. The game should instead encourage building wide arsenals."

Absolutely this. This game is riddled with relics of a bygone era that were never changed to really fit what SK wound up turning into before dying, and pure normal weapons are one of those relics. Like you said, normal only works on weapons that are already really strong. Iron Slug is another good example imo. Sudaruska also struggled with the double whammy of being a heavy weapon AND pure normal damage and its only saving grace really wound up being its decent charge attack (which is now significantly better yay!). The only real options here would be to phase out most normal damage weapons barring those few who are strong enough to warrant it, or remove arsenal stations through most of the arcade.

I don't think the argument of "Normal Poison was a unique combo" or "Too many shadow/poison weapons" are reason enough to revert the DVS change and as far as I can tell, these are basically the only arguments I'm seeing here. Yes, it was the only normal/poison weapon in the game. Yes, DVS is now like our 4th or 5th shadow/poison weapon. But really, there was no chance DVS was ever going to actually be good as a normal/poison weapon without massively overtuning other aspects of the weapon. If our real problem is just having too many shadow/poison weapons, then how about an elemental/poison weapon? Frankly, I think it'd be worse since the fast shadow attacks really maul priority targets like menders or grenadiers, but at least it'd actually function unlike a normal/poison cutter. You could actually consider bringing it to FSC! (I wouldn't, but I might use it for LoA)

Please turn on SLs I tried to access them on the test server but they are disbaled. I would like to try the cutters and troikas in SL and see how they preform

I would love to see these people who think Dread Venom Striker should be reverted to pure normal damage sporting it frequently in their loadout Why? Because they never would.

Exactly what @Fallen-Feces had said, being the only normal/poison weapon and there being a lot of shadow/poison weapons is not a good reason to change the DVS to an irrelevant damage type in the game today. These are the only reasons that people seem to mention, and there is practically nobody saying anything like "I wish there were more normal damage weapons in the game so that I could be mediocre everywhere so that I don't excel anywhere." I don't see anyone complaining that almost every fire and shock weapon does elemental damage. But if there is another shadow/poison weapon, might as well not even play the game anymore because a whole whopping five weapons with shadow/poison has made the game stale and unexciting.

So if we end up with a normal damage DVS, do not be shocked when nobody is using it. People are saying it doesn't quite hold up to the Acheron and Obsidian Edge, so now imagine how much worse it can when it cannot even be somewhat effective at its job. It would again end up being another weapon that has no place in anyone's loadout if they are trying to effectively kill enemies which people do the majority of the time. So do not make this weapon do only normal damage if these people who want it wouldn't hardly ever use it.

There is the idea of making the DVS elemental/poison instead, but there are already all the elemental brandishes, the Divine Avenger, the Warmaster Rocket Hammer, and the Fang of Vog that deal elemental damage, while theres only two families of swords with shadow options. I also just don't feel like the DVS really feels like an elemental weapon. It kind of has an eerie vibe to it that I think shadow does a lot better matching.

And then there is also the idea being thrown around of just making another line of cutters that does shadow so Dread Venom Striker can be normal damage, but what are the actual chances that Grey Havens would actually make this new weapon instead of changing the DVS back to normal damage and then never releasing the new weapon? And even if we would get the new weapon, the DVS would still maintain the issue of it being an irrelevant weapon due to normal damage.

for gran faust i would just remove curse immunity, only the duration changes based on their resistance. same as it is with knights.
i would also reduce fang of vog charge time (and sealed sword too if it isnt also being buffed).

@Top-Platinum
Acheron does more damage than other brandishes because it doesn't inflict status.
(justice for amputator)

@Darklordskull
there is practically no difference between triglav and sudaruska, EV vs graviton is by far the bigger issue.

The new Cutters feel amazing to use.
They both feel good as a primary and sidearm. Having a fast sword that can just erase problematic enemies through single target DPS quickly works very well.

However, as amazing as they are. I do feel the damage curve may be over tuned a little bit. As soon as you get extra sources of damage like from armor or pick up buffs, the DPS shoots through the roof. Something seems off with the damage curve basically.

Knock back does a bit too much on normal swings, I find myself missing some swings in the normal attack combo due to enemies escaping from knock back. I feel this should be bumped down a little bit.

The specialized damage, I really hope it stays. It helps the Cutter line of swords feel like it has much stronger legs to stand on instead of being a niche weapon for a few loadouts as a side arm only. I sold my Vile Striker awhile ago, and now I really want to get it back with the damage change.
If it must to satisfy the need for the early adopters, I would rather a new Cutter be made for pure normal damage rather than bringing back Dread Venom Striker and Wild Hunting Blade back to normal.

Wild Hunting Blade now feels exactly how it always should have been. Very nice changes.
For Dread Venom Striker though I agree with others that shadow/normal inevitably makes it compete with other shadow swords and ultimately lose its unique aspect of a poison allrounder, which is its current biggest strength.

Troika line buffs are highly appreciated and feel good so far.

For Gran Faust now, as others have pointed out, some more significant changes need to be made to make it worth wielding. As it stands, Acheron would still be the better shadow sword in almost all cases. Quicker charge speed is great, and I love the idea of self-curse and wouldn't want to miss it - I think chance of self-curse could be a bit lower though, while also chance of inflicting curse being higher (for charge and base attacks) would make the bargain of picking this weapon in the first place a better deal overall.
Perhaps also a change to the charge projectile. While a fast flying projectile feels swift and energetic, it's not particularly useful. Especially compared to Divine Avenger's three projectiles, this single bullet feels a bit underwhelming. Now, it doesn't need to copy DA, but maybe the single projectile could be bigger in size while also moving slower? That would feel threatening.

All in all I highly appreciate the effort of new balance changes. Thanks a lot!