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Costume Armour in Lockdown

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Mié, 01/02/2013 - 03:23
Imagen de Kingparat
Kingparat

Hello Spiral Knights Forums!

My name is Kingparat, and I have a small suggestion to make. I've noticed that you cannot wear costume armour during Lockdown, which I'm slightly annoyed about. You see, costume armour is a HUGE part of spiral knights, I mean, who doesn't like it? Now I know that while wearing costume armour, other players won't know what you have underneath, which can effect damage due to armour stats. However this could be solved in quite a few different ways. Here are 3 to name a few:

#1 Allowing players to see what armour other players have underneath by moving their mouse over the selected knight. (displayed in a small box stating, for example, Player is carrying cobalt helm, and wolver coat).

#2 Reminding players if they are attacking another player with the wrong kind of weapon. (e.g player attacks player-two with a flourish while player-two has piercing protection... Text appears above knight, use different weapon!)

#3 Removing armour protection all together! Each class has a certain amount of health. (e.g Striker - 10 HP, Reacon - 20 HP, Defender - 30 HP)

Please consider my suggestion as it is an important aspect of the game. Thanks for you're time!

Kingparat :D

Mié, 01/02/2013 - 03:45
#1
Imagen de Zaffy-Laffy
Zaffy-Laffy
Zaffy is Laffy

No to costume armor.

PvP is just like PvE

In PvE, you can see what monster type, so you use the correct weapon
In PvP, you should be able to see the enemy armor, so you use the correct weapon.

You will be pretty angry if a zombie comes cloaked in a gremlin costume, wouldn't you.

#1, it is kinda tedious to move your mouse over a knight, especially if they keep moving

#2, Will be very angry if you couldn't deal the most damage in your first strike, wouldn't you

#3, Everyone will shift to the highest damaging weapon all together, no strategic use of other type of weapons, wouldn't there?

Mié, 01/02/2013 - 04:27
#2
Imagen de Kingparat
Kingparat
Costume Armour in Lockdown

I can see where you're coming from Zaffy, and you are most certainly right about #1 and #2. However, There is quite a big flaw in your criticism of #3:

The final suggestion I made, (#3) about removing armour protection all together, you said would make everyone shift to the highest damage weapon altogether. Ahem, if you haven't noticed that's already happened. Almost everyone uses divine avengers, gran fausts, rocket hammers, and final flourishes as their main weapon. What's the worst that could happen? More people start using the less popular weapons like the supernova and the iron slug again? I mean come on, that's actually a good thing!

Also, people wouldn't necessarily resort to high damage weapons. What I meant was that shadow, elemental, piercing and normal damage would all be equal, rather then having specialties against different armour types. All this means is that it doesn't matter what damage type your weapon is, it does the same to every kind of armour!

I know that most people prefer lockdown without costumes, but hey, what I'm saying here could really improve the game!

Mié, 01/02/2013 - 04:56
#3
Imagen de Dendios
Dendios
@Zaffy-Laffy : Why not ? We

@Zaffy-Laffy :

Why not ? We are only having cosmetics currently, so where is the problem is using them in PvP ? Keep reading down and you will see how we can counter the problem you said.

******************

@OP :

I made a thread about this before but I didn't finish it. Anyways, #2 and #3 is silly so NO for them. But for #1, you have to change it to :

How can you know the armor of the enemy ?

There will be a box near the CE Bar at the bottom right corner. It will be like this pattern when you open it :

1."Players Name":Armor - Helm - Weapon - Trinket ( UVs will be shown like in the wiki, a small icon in front of the gear )
2."Players Name":Armor - Helm - Weapon - Trinket ( UVs will be shown like in the wiki, a small icon in front of the gear )
3."Players Name":Armor - Helm - Weapon - Trinket ( UVs will be shown like in the wiki, a small icon in front of the gear )
4."Players Name":Armor - Helm - Weapon - Trinket ( UVs will be shown like in the wiki, a small icon in front of the gear )

Pfftt...That would take alot of space, wouldn't ?

Note if we make it a Toggle Box. If you want to see what does the enemy wear, open the box then close it again. Easy & Simple !

Is that very important to have currently ?

Till the "New-Content" is presented, I guess there is no problem to have something like that, looking that we are only having cosmetics and accessories currently, so why can't we use these cosmetics in PvP ?

****************

Mié, 01/02/2013 - 06:26
#4
Imagen de Breaker-Xd
Breaker-Xd
Absolutely not.

-1 to both OP and Xxdragneel.

Seeing the opponent is important. A text box won't suffice if you spot a striker dashing in at 60mph. You need to react IMMEDIATELY, and looking down at a text box would both distract and hinder you.

Text is a definite no. Regarding flourish on piercing protection: everyone does that regardless of the defense. The text box would be useless and annoying.

Set health would make the game not Lockdown. If you want classes with health, suggest a new minigame. Don't try to break our existing and beloved Lockdown.

-1 from the T2 Lockdown Fiend

Mié, 01/02/2013 - 05:30
#5
Imagen de Hexzyle
Hexzyle
-1

Seems like an aweful lot of reading stupid diagrams and cross referencing people's costumes to their data in the text box and memorizing everyone's equipment when they can just change it in a flash, JUST so that people can wear costumes in lockdown.

Stop with this nonsense.

Mié, 01/02/2013 - 05:43
#6
Imagen de Juances
Juances

#2 gets distorted with mixed sets along UVs. A simple text won't adapt to the situation.
#3 Makes defensive armors even more useless and over-overpowers sets with bonuses (skolver)

The most logical is #1, but is kinda complicated and troublesome to read mid-batle.

How about icons over players heads? Dots that change in size according to amount of defense.
If he has normal and shadow defense, 2 medium sized red and purple dots. If he also has a pierce UV, a small yellow dot.
It's still annoying but would also reveal some UVs.....

Mié, 01/02/2013 - 05:53
#7
Imagen de Dendios
Dendios
@Breaker-Xd : First of all,

@Breaker-Xd :

First of all, you aren't a Lockdown Fiend.

Did you even read what I said ? I said :"There will be a box near the CE Bar at the bottom right corner." and then I said :"Not if we make it a Toggle Box. If you want to see what does the enemy wear, open the box then close it again. Easy & Simple !".

There is no need to put the cursor on the striker, just open the box before you go fighting or "Capping" and that's it. I don't understand what do you mean by a Striker dashing at 60mph, it is because you didn't read what I said I guess....

Mié, 01/02/2013 - 06:18
#8
Imagen de Xxpapaya
Xxpapaya
The papaya giggles

I never pay attention to what armor people are wearing :3 Or their weapons (that is, until they start chasing me down)
Personally I think all of these suggestions............are well............pointless (no offense :( ). Lets talk about suggestion #1 first =)
Odds are, you'll probably be dead (or in the middle of a fight) by the time you manage to hover your mouse over a player from the opposing team. Even if you don't (lets say you are hiding in your "base"), and you manage to find out what armor another player is wearing...........I don't really see how that information would be useful to you. First of all, you can't change equipment in the middle of Lockdown (unless you have.........what are they called again? Sets? I forgot :P). Secondly..............I can't think of one :3

Now lets discuss suggestion #2
Well, I'm pretty sure no one wants to have those words appear over and over again DX

Suggestion #3
Well, @Zaffy-Laffy had a point.........Besides............I always bring a Super Stun Gun with me to Lockdown ^^

Overall:
This is a nice suggestion to be honest =) I've actually also wanted to show off my costumes in Lockdown :P But sadly, due to the reasons listed above, I have to disagree :( Sorry

Happy New Year by the way ^^

Mié, 01/02/2013 - 06:24
#9
Imagen de Breaker-Xd
Breaker-Xd
Apologies for not being CE clear

Opening and closing a toggle box wastes time.
60mph is an analogy, comparison, whatever the hell you want to call it.
As most people seem to be saying, text does not make up for visual. Any kind of text box will not suffice for simply displaying true armor.
This post would be a waste of effort for both developers and readers, and was a waste of time for me to read. I did, however, waste the time reading it thoroughly.
Still a bad idea.
-the T2 Lockdown Fiend

Mié, 01/02/2013 - 11:07
#10
Imagen de Psychodestroyer
Psychodestroyer
-

-1

Mié, 01/02/2013 - 13:29
#11
Imagen de Severage
Severage
...

I would give some drawn-out explanation as to why not, but someone beat me to it.

-1

~Sev

Mié, 01/02/2013 - 13:37
#12
Imagen de Howardfeng
Howardfeng
:o

-1

Mié, 01/02/2013 - 14:47
#13
Imagen de Kingparat
Kingparat
Well, I can see that most

Well, I can see that most people on this thread are against my ideas, but hey, they're only a few. As I said before, there are many ways to solve the problems costumes would bring. Take Xxpapaya's idea about dots above players heads:

Answer me this, would you rather memorise what every set of armour in the game is weak to, or simply check what colour dot is above the knights head? Sure, it might get a bit hard to read when your getting swarmed by other players, but tell me, who really stops to remember what kind of damage the opposition is weak to when your about to get 'king hit' by a rocket hammer? And as most people use wolver armour, (for their damage bonuses and what not) most dots should be the same!

I know that getting costume armour in lockdown is a bit of a long shot, but it would be great if you could at least consider it. I mean, who doesn't like wearing costumes?

Mié, 01/02/2013 - 15:19
#14
Imagen de Psychodestroyer
Psychodestroyer

"but hey, they're only a few"

...

I'll refrain from commenting on that, but it'd be good to heed my irritation. TL;DR: Take a hint.

"Answer me this, would you rather memorise what every set of armour in the game is weak to"

Frankly, for the armour's I've encountered, used, and considered getting, that job does itself. Skolver? Piercing resist. Vog? Elemental. Skelly? Shadow. The variety of gear used in LD I find is very small, so that's not too much of a trouble if you're trying to get 1337 at LD.

"who really stops to remember what kind of damage the opposition is weak to when your about to get"

They don't have to. There's a 'This dude? He keel yew' screen right after you die, also showing the weapon he was wielding when he killed you.

A mouseover screen would be too much trouble, considering you'll probably be too busy fighting to even bother to check it out. Not having Costume armour allows for quick viewing of the enemy's general defenses.

A little 'Pro Tip-bot' I find would be pointless entirely. "There's a better weapon to use." But...I like to use my- "Use the better weapon." Seriously, I find it eas- "Use. The Better. Weapon." If the player can't be bothered with enemy defenses, the assistant would just be annoying, get in the way, be disregarded entirely, or other. And if the player did care about enemy defenses, he'd probably know what to do already, and the assistant would just get in the way.

Reminds me of something.

#3 isn't as bad, but then there'll be no diversity whatsoever. Doesn't matter if they have defense against everything or no defense, the point of armours is to have a variety on the field. It's one of the things SK promotes in it's gameplay. Preparation in both attack and defense types.

You get to wear costumes in Haven and the CW because you can both fight and socialize. If you can look cool and badbucket while at it, better. In LD, all you're there for is to kill people. No-one's really going to take a look at your player and go: 'Hm. Nice threads.' Obviously looking nice is a thing for some people, but on a battlefield where everyone's more focused on tearing their sword through your neck, they're probably not going to notice nor care about mistmatched clothing.

Mié, 01/02/2013 - 16:42
#15
Imagen de Krakob
Krakob
NO.

Because reasons stated above, about knowing what you're facing, etc. Costumes still show in the portraits and although they are only for the ones in your party, it's still annoying because you can't calculate winning probability when your Skolver mates hide their feces.

Mié, 01/02/2013 - 21:37
#16
Imagen de Kingparat
Kingparat
Krakob, You do realise that

Krakob, You do realise that what you said has almost nothing to do with the subject... XD

Mié, 01/02/2013 - 23:34
#17
Imagen de Msaad
Msaad
-1

My reason is that when the costume armors be visible in T1LD, where you wear a rich type of costume or something,
It will freak the people out.

Jue, 01/03/2013 - 00:41
#18
Imagen de Kingparat
Kingparat
Freaked out by costumes?

So what if people are scared by a noob in rich clothing, that's not the point!

The main argument is about not being able to see what your foe is wearing. Quite a while back, Juances suggested having colour coded dots above knights heads. (Sorry, a while back I mistook Xxpapaya with Juances. They have the same avatar XD). This idea might even work better then the current lockdown format. Rather than having to recite what every armour set is weak to, you could simply see what colour dot is above the players head and go from there.

Now I know that a lot of people disagree with this thread, but it was actually written for Spiral Knights designers, not for lockdown junkies! So please, only comment if you've actually got something important to point out, I don't really mind if its positive or negative, just try not to straight out criticise.

Thanks

- Kingparat

Jue, 01/03/2013 - 00:49
#19
Imagen de Zaffy-Laffy
Zaffy-Laffy
Zaffy is Laffy

Spiral knights designers or lockdown junkies, this suggestions are gonna directly impact them lockdown folks, so we lockdown peeps have a say

Jue, 01/03/2013 - 01:08
#20
Imagen de Kingparat
Kingparat
XD

I think you missed my point Zaffy. I said that the thread was written for Spiral Knights designers, I never said you couldn't have your say! I actually appreciate your input, I just don't like it when people jump in and criticise my thread without a second thought.

Jue, 01/03/2013 - 01:50
#21
Imagen de Xxpapaya
Xxpapaya
The papaya grins

@Kingparat
Yeah, its a bit confusing when different people use the same avatar >.> I almost mistook one of Juance's posts for my own ^^

Anyways, back on topic ^^

@Pyschodestroyer
Well............sometimes I equip my proto gear, just for fun ^^ (and then people start throwing a tantrum at me, for making our team lose) But I'm pretty sure everyone knows the defense stats of proto armor ^^

@Zaffy-Laffy
Every time I see your name, I'm reminded of Taffy, which then reminds me of Toffee...............Am I off topic? ^^

@Msaad
Yeah............I find it kinda funny how people always assume that players' who are wearing the rose set are super rich (and very experienced) >.>

Jue, 01/03/2013 - 04:17
#22
Imagen de Psychodestroyer
Psychodestroyer

Not to be the overly downer, but...

Discuss also includes and constitutes as criticizing. If an idea is terrible, people call it out as terrible. Not that this idea is terrible, but nevertheless, it's positive factor is small, and is merely a preference. Then again, most things are, but this I feel is less necessary than the rest.

Also, please refrain from posting things like "I'm directing this at the developers, not you guys" or other such similar phrases, for the following reasons I will post in a frustrated manner because I've had so many people say that it's really, really annoying.

"I'm aiming this at the developers" Of course you're aiming it at the developers; you posted it in their suggestions forum! They read it. They ALSO read the comments of other posters. Pretty much, they let US argue out all the kinks and whatknots so THEY don't have to.

Regardless of who it's directed at, if it's a suggestion that's going to affect other players, other players get to have a say. Debating in such a manner allows the developers to see both sides of the argument, and while all posters on said imaginary thread may disagree with the idea, if the developers find that such a feature would be more beneficial, they'll add it anyway. The forums are used as an idea-pool and community-response 'testing ground'.

Trying to say 'look, I like hearing your voice at all but I'm not really listening to what you're saying because I want to hear from developers" just annoys people. Like, really annoys people. I'm fairly sure you can see why, especially with my 'translated' version.

For instance, take a look at this guy.

Regardless of how good his idea may or may not have been, he decided to be a buckethat about how he was going to take comments, enraging most of the posters and pretty much getting nowhere. If it doesn't get support, it's less likely to get implemented. Also, it's just a really good example of a dude being arrogant regarding the 'you're not devs' scenario.

Now look at this guy.

Recognize the content? At least a few thing should look similar, if not ring bells instantly.

This thread was more or less responsible for the fairly recent GH patch. It was a long work-in-progress thing, but Severage spent his time finding, compiling, improving, discarding, tweaking and re-proposing only to revise it yet again, ideas to be used in a possible GH update. He listened to commenters, countered criticism where he could, for ideas that could be saved, and generally was just co-operative.

It's much easier to get things done that way instead of saying "...I don't like what you're saying." every time someone comes in and can't find anything positive about the idea; counter his points and prove him wrong, or improve your own points based on his critiques; that's what this' forum's about.

Jue, 01/03/2013 - 05:16
#23
Imagen de Krakob
Krakob
NO.

Kingparat, if people wear costumes, they can hide their feces and you can't always determine your win chances by looking at the amount of Skolvers on your team.

Jue, 01/03/2013 - 15:36
#24
Imagen de Kingparat
Kingparat
XD

Krakob, I appreciate your input, but the main argument here is about costume armour stopping people from seeing their foes damage resistance. I'm sure that OOO wouldn't be all that concerned about people wanting to know how many skolvers are on their team! If you want to suggest costume armour being removed from the portraits in lockdown start your own thread.

Jue, 01/03/2013 - 15:49
#25
Imagen de Kingparat
Kingparat
@Psychodestroyer

Yes, your right Psychodestroyer, but what I meant when I said "Try not to straight out criticse" was you CAN criticise my thread, as long as you've actually given it some thought. Some people just dive in and point out the negatives without giving the positives any thought. Also, I didn't mean I wasn't listening to everyone's input when I said this thread was written to Spiral Knights designers and not to lockdown junkies. I meant that it wasn't aimed at those who were just going to see what the topic was about, not give it any thought at all, and start defending the current lockdown. I hope you understand what I'm saying now.

Jue, 01/03/2013 - 18:30
#26
Imagen de Psychodestroyer
Psychodestroyer

I understand what you're saying, but implying you were ignoring people I was not. I was pointing out the fact that saying that could imply that to other people and is what annoys people.

Also, there are only a few who actually post without thinking. Some of us may miss a point here and there, others may overanalyze. But there'll only be a few, and it'll be evident who, who will just come in to say 'ur idea suck u stoopid lolol'

Jue, 01/03/2013 - 19:16
#27
Imagen de Kingparat
Kingparat
@Psychodestroyer

Haha, true

Jue, 01/03/2013 - 19:21
#28
Imagen de Kingparat
Kingparat
Wrapping up

Anyways, I'd just like to thank everyone who replied to this thread, and if your still wanting to point things out, then go for it. But I think for now, its best to leave the decision up to OOO whether or not this idea gets implemented. (Judging by the amount of -1's , it probably won't). Maybe I'll see some of you around haven one day.

Thanks for your time!

- Kingparat

Jue, 01/03/2013 - 22:10
#29
Imagen de Hexzyle
Hexzyle
Dat Talisman thread. Was the

Dat Talisman thread.

Was the funniest one i eva saw. That's for digging it up for me Psycho, I've been wanting to have a good laugh.

Vie, 01/04/2013 - 00:11
#30
Imagen de Pawsmack
Pawsmack
@OP/I'm too lazy to type your name in right here.

-0 +0 You aren't supposed to look pretty during Lockdown considering a teddy bear bashing peoples face in would be weird but epic at the same time. c:

@Psy

I'm one of those people! :D

Vie, 01/04/2013 - 08:31
#31
Imagen de Infernoburner
Infernoburner
It allows Trojan/Love Puppy

It allows Trojan/Love Puppy heads. Derp.

Vie, 01/04/2013 - 09:18
#32
Imagen de Doctorspacebar
Doctorspacebar

As much as I'd love to wear my prized Iron Bombhead Mask in Lockdown (it goes so well with Merc Demo), I'd have to say no. It's good to be able to tell what your foe is wearing, so you don't, say, pull out a Shivermist on a Skolver, or a Voltaic Tempest on a Mercurial Demoman. Yeah, Status Resists weren't mentioned anywhere; since people can be completely immune to a Mist Bomb (except for the center damage that no one ever gets hit by, except those rare lucky Mist Bomb kills you wish you had recorded because it was just so epic) with a resistant armor set (or two Max UVs, which shouldn't be the case, but it is), knowing what armor the enemy is wearing is crucial for any mist bomber.

However, a good idea was raised; an equipment viewer that could let you see UVs. If this were incorporated in the lobby before the battle, you could figure out who has unfair invulnerability to what by looking at the names with UV'd armors and matching them to each player. Levels the playing field ever so slightly, and requires the average Shock Max Skolver Clone to use his head a little (and if they do, well, more power to 'em because they probably know what they're doing). Being able to see that guy that's been getting top damage has an ASI VH Flippin' Flourish (or worse, an ASI VH TROLLARIS) should be helpful by letting teams know "Aim for that sucker first", hopefully causing his ego to get knocked down a peg (assuming he has an ego).

Vie, 01/04/2013 - 09:32
#33
Imagen de Bella-Donna
Bella-Donna
the thing about not effective words...

if i wear a skoalver and divine stuff then i have resistance to everything. if i have resistance to everything, the words will appear with everyhit, thereby no effective weapon and i troll everyone with my costume

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