Yeah addiction is a big problem. You only know how addicted you are to a game (most commonly associated with online gaming) when you stopped playing for a day, a week, a month. Some games get you hooked, Spiral Knights is one of them.
Lol. I always say to myself I was better off playing single player games casually like 2-3 hours every other day.
i never thought a lot of people feel the way that i do
im so happy too see all of your responds in this topic T_T man im....im...iimm....wahhhhhhhhh!!!!
so heres my respond to this topic
keep this topic alive or everyone will.. will...(sob)...........(nvm cuz im realy touched) <(T_T)>plss hug me
Well, I've been "internet bullied" many times, but most of the time, I just shrug off the person insulting me.
Hated:"[Very insulting comment here]"
Me: "Continues spamming Nitronome" and/or "Continues posting without even reading the comment"
Be like Pinkie Pie :D
http://mlp.wikia.com/wiki/Pinkie_Pie
I'm happy that someone actually thought of making such a thread...
I used have problems like this in the past. I would wake up at 3-5 a.m. and just play Spiral Knights or Minecraft. I would play till like 6:30 a.m. and then go to school... Then I'd be tired at school... That was a nightmare.
I would like to play these days but I just don't have enough time. Polish here, Polish there... Test here, exam over there...
The moral of this story is: You have to pay for the fun you had in the past...
Trust me online gaming is a serious addiction. I think for some that is the reason they become too emotionally attached to the game and thus become over sensitive. It becomes their life. It takes over. If you feel that way let someone know ASAP. Don't let it destroy you.
You see, now I'm fine...
I don't play a lot. Only on weekends really...
But there are people out there who just can't control themselves.
I try to control my playing, and I do.
I've tried being a positive influence before like that. Boy. Was the nationalism/metaphoric meta-game elitists rate high back then.
But it's better now right? At least better than before.
I also got a message from this guy/gal. Pretty warm words. Although he/she is asking me to solve who they are. Unfortunately I don't have much time on my hands, I know you're reading this so sorry, and if you want you can tell me. I promise your secret identity will be safe. I don't need the forge box. But thanks for the kind words and offer.
I could have sent you a reply, but it won't give me the option to.
I rarely log into sk. So please don't expect a quick response.
Trying to keep the thread going! ;)
@ Oski-Boski
Thanks mate. I won't be around much, to make sure this gets bumped and people who "need' to read it, can see it.
@ Everyone
Please ignore post #62. At time of writing I had no idea that was a game.
Would it be fair to say the reason why some of you take this game too serious and become affected by what others say too deeply, is because you feel strongly attached to this game?
A simple Google search by typing in "Health problems with Social Online gaming" will bring up some very useful articles to read. I did just that and the first link was this: http://www.olganon.org/?q=node/2069
If you feel this way, it might be a sign of addiction.
Let someone know.
@ Dragneel-Wiki: you said "I wouldn't call returning to the game after deciding not to come back "addiction", but rather "have nothing else to do" or even "best of the worst". Addiction can lead to serious health/mental problems, so yeaaaaaaah, we just play it for the sake of playing it..."
That's true, but you can't generalise that with everyone, I made the mistake of generalising everyone as addicts for being unable to stay away from the game, you guys are generalising everyone not being an addict who can't stay away from the game.
What you are doing is looking at the extremes of addiction. I'm looking at it from something that can lead to extreme addiction if you are not able to control yourself. Sorry if I didn't make that clear enough, but I did state it a few times in Hollows thread, but it was ignored.
Edit: after thinking about things more, there isn't any point discussing this. I'm actually bored of having to argue silly things. If you don't understand what I'm saying then fine, when you decide to quit Spiral Knights for good, but can't help yourself from coming back, you'll see that I was right. You are addicted in the sense you can't help yourself from playing the game you love, I hope you don't become addicted to this game in the sense that it causes you to have social and health problems, which if you did some research is a very well known and recognised problem world wide.
I'm here for the addiction argument.
I'm going to take (in part) the EC stance on this so you can go to check their videos if you want the full argument.
you can get addicted if something alters the chemical receptors in your brain. games don't do that. games don't addict people. what are you calling "addiction" is in fact compulsion. game compulsion is the inability to stop playing the game, because various reasons, everyone has its own. game compulsion is a problem, a mental (ie that doesn't come out of phisical causes) and personal problem that must be addressed case by case and only if it presents a problem in the gamer real life.
and, is phisical the right word? I didn't want to use corporeal, cause it seemed more philosophical.
now I'll try to get the arguments from everyone else cause they're scattered around. EDIT: I see lots of people using addiction as "can't stop doing something not mandatory". I like reading, am I addicted to books? I do karate, am I addicted to it? games follow the same logic. if you stop playing and feel ill, I challenge you to say that games have more to do with it that your mental status or social problems. and since I can't seem to describe anything better than this, and I know someone else has tried and failed, I'll just leave this up here.
Is this person chatting out their rear end then? http://www.olganon.org/?q=node/2069
I suppose this is a bunch of hog wash too? http://netaddiction.com/online-gaming/
Yep this is all made up stuff too: http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2009/oct/08/online-games-addiction...
I see you as someone who speaks sense and logic. What you have done is completely ignored what I am saying. I'm very surprised by that.
Edit: why did you put that addidas video there? I feel as if your post is just an insult to what ever I am saying. As you didn't once acknowledge the point I am making by using clear cut proof through links I have provided that addiction is a serious problem in online gaming.
Edit: people have tried and failed because they aren't looking at the links I am providing. I wonder why?
Edit: So do you still believe online gaming doesn't cause addiction? The links are here for you to read.
Please don't say I am ignoring your argument, or you think I'm not listening to your side. Until someone says what I am saying is wrong because the links I have provided are wrong, then I'm sorry I don't see how anything you come up with to say online gaming does not cause addiction is valid. I want a straight up answer to what I have provided seeing as I'm the one who is saying online gaming can cause addiction.
Prove me wrong.
@Arcknightdelta
I [tried to] read the 1st link you put there (all these � hurt my eyes). The stories of people killing themselves in front of the PC... those aren't from addiction, but from depression. I though I should point that out. Addictions start as an everyday thing and end absorbing you. In depression you seek for something to absorb you as a way to evade life. And in this case, it can range from a videogame to cooking, as long as it keeps your mind busy.
Addiction and depression can be related, but should not be confused.
Well, I don't know if online gaming or even gaming in general causes addiction. I am not currently going to attempt to prove one side or the other. However, I am curious about some stuff, Arcknightdelta. You are very passionate about your stance in this subject. Do have personal experience in this topic? Are you or someone you know addicted to online gaming (Spiral Knights perhaps)? If someone can become addicted to gaming, do you believe people can also become addicted to game forums?
God's been very kind to me and my family, so far. So as of now I have nothing to report on personal issues.
But I always raise issues on the forum when they come up. Unfortunately a recent AFK thread cropped up today and the OP stated openly because of their addiction based on the views of addiction from another forum member, they became stressed and was in a bad position financially. Hence why I wanted to make everyone aware of how to avoid that. But I'm hitting a brick wall with some people.
@ Wavara are you telling me none of the links are viewable in post #69 (OMG 69!)
Do a Google search by typing in "Health problems with Social Online gaming" or "Addiction and Social Online Gaming", you should find what I am saying is very true about online gaming and addiction.
I want a straight up answer to what I have provided seeing as I'm the one who is saying online gaming can cause addiction.
Yes, online gaming can cause addictions. This does not mean they will.
Liking something and coming back to it is not an addiction. People who bring out their old NES every so often are not addicted to the NES, rather they want to play some of their old favorite games.
I am not reading the links you sent because I really don't have the time right now, nor the patience to read through various articles on something that varies from person to person. This does not make my argument hold any more weight than yours, and should be weighed accordingly.
Liking something and being addicted to it are not the same thing. The word "addiction" that you are using Arcknight (from how I understand it) is more or less the butchered version, much like how "literally", "radical", and "awesome" lost their original meaning with time in the American dialect. From what I can tell, you view "liking" a game as a lower-tier "addiction", which may very well be true. The word "addiction" carries more weight than "like", hence all the backlash.
Online games do not cause addiction, however individuals may become addicted to online games. It's the consumer, not the product.
Ok hands up. I admit I have worded things very badly here.
When I read the OP in the AFK thread and the OP's post at #9 in their thread, it got me thinking, and I did some research. I also may have taken things out of context. The articles make Online Gaming to be the cause of a person's addiction to not being able to stop playing the game they are playing. When you get some free time please read them. Reading what the OP in the AFK thread said it furthered my belief. I still do think Online gaming, If you let it, will ruin your life. I've even read articles where online developers have hired psychologists to provide insight into helping to add/develop content which entices players and makes it difficult to get out of the online world they surrounded themselves in.
Thanks for making sense out of the senseless :)
@Arcknightdelta, no no, I meant this link (http://www.olganon.org/?q=node/2069) had its text filled with weird symbols:
"“The games are intensely social. Players frequently play together, by organizing or joining a “guild� of friends or strangers and undertake an activity[...]".
But I read all of it.
And I never said you were wrong about "Online addiction". I only pointed out the difference between 2 problems people seem to confuse very often.
I state again that addiction is a phisical problem and that game do not interact with your body so that you can get addicted. I could make an example but since your brain seemed to ignore that the "addidas link" I provided wasn't what you saw because that was an ad, I suggest you to click it again. I say "your brain" instead of "you" since it can't possibly be that you decided not to see that that was an ad.
and you say that you didn't ignore my argument but you restated facts that were already stated in your previous posts. I don't need to read all the jazz about online gaming addiction because they take extemes as examples and/or make it look like something way worse than it is. game compulsion is a problem, but not only by itself, it's the causes that generate it that must be investigated, and they aren't only in games but in our society.
gotta stop writing before I say something odd. I can feel it coming.
I know I said I wouldn't partake in this thread, but this isn't even the same issue as was previously brought up. The addiction topic relates to the OP, but I won't relate to the OP. Nope. Can't get me. Not today.
@Arcknightdelta's post, http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/100303?page=1#comment-915576
"Addiction" is a loaded term among psychiatrists and psychologists, with many disputing whether the dependency exhibited by a few constitutes the same type of physical craving triggered by opiates such as heroin. - The Guardian (Arcknightdelta's link)
"Some experts disagree though that such a thing as internet addiction is real." - lizwool (Arknightdelta's other link)
Though it hardly effects the argument, video games are not strictly speaking addictive. For something to be addictive, it has to very specifically effect your brain directly. Think about it this way: (And I apologize for my shaky source, Wikipedia, but I'm really not that invested.)
Cocaine: "Biologically, cocaine acts as a serotonin–norepinephrine–dopamine reuptake inhibitor, also known as a triple reuptake inhibitor (TRI). It is addictive due to its effect on the mesolimbic reward pathway" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocaine
Video games, and other non-drug related activities: "Compulsive behavior is defined as performing an act persistently and repetitively without it leading to an actual reward or pleasure" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsive_behavior
Notice how one of the above literally stimulates your brain directly with neurotransmitters. It isn't manipulating circumstance to make your brain reward you, it is injecting chemicals that force your brain to have a good time, aka get high. Video games, gambling, etc. are all falsely labeled under addiction, because the outcomes of either are very similar. The truth of the matter is that one cannot addict you, because it offers no substance to do so. Rather, it is your body's own response to the stimuli, and it takes a naturally long amount of time for you to get the strong sense of compulsion that is described by your articles.
This difference is important because addiction makes it much harder to escape. If I really wanted to quit Spiral Knights, I could do so fairly easily compared to something like cocaine. In fact, this is so true that it makes using cocaine pull you in without any external reasons, whereas games, gambling, etc. typically rely on an external factor to force the player back in, or at least to get the player there in the first place; e.g. depression. Think about it this way- if I use cocaine, then I get a massive high and want more of it immediately. That's all it really takes to get me into it. If I use Spiral Knights, I might say "wow, that was fun" and then play it again whenever I have time. I wouldn't sit around craving it and rocking back and forth until 5 years later of nonstop playing, provided that I have an addictive personality AND that I have a reason to come back time and again initially.
-------
Another thing is that tabloids and news sites shouldn't be considered good sources of information, as they are almost certainly biased. Best to stick to peer reviewed journals. I consider wikipedia to be slightly better than these and since we're not exactly the scientific community I don't think it matters so much as long as you don't abuse it, but don't trust me on this! Go to Google, and search for compulsive behavior in the scholarly articles section.
Every time people bring up detrimental aspects of video games, I raise the questions of science.
Science seems to say there is a lot we don't know or haven't yet studied yet.
The interesting thing is that there can be quite a few things that are counterintuitive such as Dr. Bavelier's research showing that action games IMPROVE eyesight, decision making, and conflict resolution.
That being said, I couldn't find the scientific research behind the links Arcknightdelta provided. I do acknowledge there are quite a few MD's listed as references, but I would prefer scholarly papers on the topic, like this one. Thier analysis is that a compulsion towards gaming is just as strong and characteristic for any other compulsion such as drinking. They list nothing of the causation (is it the game or user), but the negative effects and reality of the topic are definitely in existance.
^Oh good, someone that isn't too lazy to find real articles on the topic. Thank you.
what fehzor said was what I was trying to say.
You don't know how much stuff affects other people. Just because you wouldn't have a hard time quitting spiral knights, doesn't mean it's the same for everyone else. Pretty much anything can become addicting, it all depends on the circumstances.
not to sound rude, but have you read posts before writing? you know, all those articles posted don't come out of nowhere. they have some kind of proof.
Good to see for the first time people discussing using actual evidence rather than conflicting opinions. I'm actually enjoying this.
Thank you.
Edit: so now my point. Would it be fair to say that some people who take things too seriously and do extreme things could in fact be overly attached to the online game they are playing? This all relates imo based on what has gone on over the past months. On one hand you have people contemplating suicide because they feel as if they are being hated on by everyone, on the other side you have someone who became financially stressed due to online gaming. The main problem here is they can't stop playing, hence why I used the word addicted, to get away from the harm it is causing them.
Edit: Crimson-Xe has made a very good point. You can never truly know how each and everyone is affected. IF we did I can guarantee you all now each time you made a post you would take care what you say.
I have already stated why I can't call it addiction, so I'll just stop here. in fat, I was about to write something but it souded like I already posted that. I'm bac in the shadows.
Don't feel as if you are being ignored. I respect what everyone has to say. We don't need to prove who is right and who is wrong. Say what you have to say. It might help someone.
@ Fehzor no offence but it doesn't mean what you are saying is right and anyone agreeing with you is being lazy just because they want to hear what they believe is right.
You said that gambling isn't an addiction. Read this http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/addiction/Pages/gamblingaddiction.aspx
There are different forms of addiction, something I don't think you are understanding. What you are saying is what you THINK of yourself. You need to do a lot more research. Start with that NHS link I gave you.
Compulsive behaviours such as gambling, shopping, eating, and computers are emerging as behavioural addictions, people can become dependant on them as severely as alcohol or drugs. Some activities are so normal, that it's hard to believe people can become addicted to them. Yet the cycle of addiction can still take over, making everyday life a constant struggle. Know the difference between someone having a good time, overindulging and becoming addicted to a behaviour.
I'm sorry, I've accepted what you guys are saying, the problem is you haven't accepted what I am saying. Neither of us are wrong, but what I am saying is a different form of addiction you don't understand. Or maybe you do understand but don't want to accept it.
We don't need to prove who is right and who is wrong.
Uh, various parts of your post seem to contradict this statement, Arcknightdelta.
I'm sorry, I've accepted what you guys are saying, the problem is you haven't accepted what I am saying.
Man chooses, slave obeys. We have the right in this world believe whatever we wanted to believe. If your sole purpose here is to shove your ideals down other ppl's throat, then how do you expect anyone to be your side?
Just like how i rejected the idea of with freedom comes responsibility, yes, freedom to me still meant what it always meant to me, the right to do whatever the hell i want, when i wanted. As bigoted as my opinion sounds, it is a part of my right.
Whether something is addictive, let the individual decide.
Yeah, what Dj said.
Crack ain't addictive if you don't want it to be!
I think two things define a word's meaning:
1. What it means to you
2. What it means to the people around you.
When a person uses a word, he/she needs to consider 2, when a person hears a word, he or she needs to consider 1.
In other words, the purpose of talking is to get an idea across. The purpose of listening is to figure out what idea is being conveyed.
If someone says "video game addiction" and you know what he/she is describing, does it matter if the word is "addiction" or not? Potayto, Potahto, as long as you understand, it doesn't matter!
If someone says you used a word incorrectly, he/she either a) does not understand what you are trying to say or b) likes to flaunt a superior knowledge of language status quos. For case (a), simply try using different words to express what you are trying to say. For case (b), say "whatever, you know what I mean" and move on.
Now to bring us back to the original subject:
I do think playing a lot of video games can (but not always) ruin someone's life or career. Humans love pleasurable experiences. Sometimes we make stupid decisions to get more short-term pleasurable experiences rather than thinking about long-term aspects of life.
I don't think talking about video game addictions on a video game forum should be encouraged. You can't get help by indulging in the very activity you need help from. You also have people who think it's not a problem, even though they don't really know what the individual is dealing with in real life.
@ Midnight-Dj, I'm not forcing anything, to be honest I feel as if you guys are forcing your opinions on this thread, which isn't right as this thread is raising awareness for those who could be in a tough situation, and we need to understand that. As the OP of this thread I leave a question and you choose to discuss. I may say something, but that doesn't mean I'll shove it down your throat. Why no lyrics for this? I demand lyrics!
@ Markus-Aurelius sorry about that, I was becoming slightly annoyed at the fact some of you were ignoring what I was saying, I'm over it now.
It's obvious some of you guys strongly believe that there is no such thing as addiction to online gaming when I have clearly given links to suggest there is and a member of our forum admitted to being addicted (based on Pwnclubs definition of addiction) which led to being stressed and having financial difficulties. It's all case by case situations. I've seen a few cases on this forum which in fact suggests what you guys are saying is not true for everyone.
I'm going to leave this topic open for debate. By asking the question:
"Is addiction to online gaming real and does it cause people to become mentally attached to something which results in extreme action being taken?"
Answer as honestly as you will. Please don't @ Arcknightdelta. I'm not arguing this anymore as I've had my say. I totally understand your opinions but with recent topics coming up and research on various sites leads me to believe if you as an individual become emotionally attached to an online game it will become very hard to stop. This isn't an easy concept to understand if all you're going to do is speak from your experience. Use the internet and research. I myself once my exams are over will be playing Spiral Knights. I am addicted to Spiral Knights because I love the game, but I also know when to stop and not allow playing too much to affect my health. Some people can't do that.
I've never once thought while playing online that people would say they want to commit suicide or are stressed after they put too much time and money into online games. So answer this question and also give advice for both sides of the argument. This is all very new to me. Hence why I made this thread to raise issues that we don't see as issues, but others may. So if they read this they can feel they are not alone.
Thanks.
It's obvious some of you guys strongly believe that there is no such thing as addiction to online gaming
someone please point me out the guys this sentence refers to.
"[...]that people would say they want to commit suicide[...]"
I'll repeat myself: that's depression.
"[...]stressed after they put too much time and money into online games[...]"
Now this can be called Addiction.
@Ark, I think I finally get what you were trying to say. In my case, it was because your meaning of the word Addiction differs from mine. Both Fangel and Auto-target helped me understand that (I wonder if the Babylonians had this kind of problem xP).
Depression, still, is a different problem.
"Can Online Gaming generate a mental attachment so strong it can become a real danger to your life?"
Yes, yes it can. Addiction, compulsion, obsession, or whatever you want to call it. The problem is still there.
Hahaha. It seems I have also started to understand what you were saying. Our definitions are the same, what I am saying is too much of anything can become an addiction. Even very small things can be classed as addiction if you fall under the criteria associated with it. Addiction doesn't necessarily have to involve drugs and alcohol, that's the point I was trying but failed to make. Thanks for taking the time to keep this discussion alive.
@ Thunder-The-Bright please try not to make big things out of little things someone says. It's not like I'm insulting anyone, if you think I'm being offensive say so, but I was expressing my opinion on how I felt some of you handled this topic. Throwing around names won't get anyone anywhere. Please either contribute to the topic we are discussing which you have been but have stopped or just try your best not to post something that will lead to more off topic answers. I apologise I jumped the gun at that one link you posted. I wasn't exactly in a good mood last night, and you didn't really explain yourself very well. I honestly took it as something to cause humour especially as the link led on from this;
since I can't seem to describe anything better than this, and I know someone else has tried and failed.
My bad.
There is a big difference between games you play alone and games you play online with others. With social online gaming you can become emotionally attached to it, and distance yourself from the real world. You become involved with other people, strangers. For some this can lead to problems for others it doesn't. If you don't accept both sides there is no point in me trying to explain it over and over, it isn't a hard concept to grasp.
Urban dictionary defines Ecchi
What is the deal with Ecchi Anime?
Your opinions on this? (I am aware that this link links to another thread)
no, I meant that pretty much no one that is making up arguments right now thinks that gaming compulsion isn't a problem.
"Is addiction to online gaming real and does it cause people to become mentally attached to something which results in extreme action being taken?"
Yes. It can happen, but this doesn't mean it will happen.
I am addicted to Spiral Knights because I love the game, but I also know when to stop and not allow playing too much to affect my health.
This stops being an addiction if you can stop.
After a quick Google search of the definition of "addicted" (it's not that hard, people), I can see where most of the overlap is happening. Both sides are right, but are both using a different definition.
On one side, we have this one: physically and mentally dependent on a particular substance, and unable to stop taking it without incurring adverse effects.
On the other side, we have this: enthusiastically devoted to a particular thing or activity.
Being passionate about something is very different than being extremely dependent on something else you cannot function.
I believe the confusion lies in the definition of what "addiction" means, seeing as how the term has two similar, but fundamentally different connotations. One refers to being persistently compelled to abuse a particular substance typically brought on by a physiological condition or reaction brought on by the substance in question. The other, on the other hand, refers to an unusual and excessive compulsion to engage in a particular activity, which, when used to this extent, may have negative results. However, in spite of these different definitions, it's rather easy to discern that both, while through different means, end up having the same results. Simply put, the individual in question uses something to the point in which they become dependent on it. This dependency then leads to other consequences. Of course, such consequences are based on the thing being abused, and the context in which it is used in.
Regardless, I would wager that the people in this thread are not saying gaming compulsion (or addiction, whatever you may want to call it) isn't a problem. From what I understand, most are simply attempting to determine how easy or difficult it may be to quit playing a game so heavily.
In that case, should we take the definitions I have provided here into consideration, I would imagine it'd be much more difficult to stop abusing drugs or alcohol than to stop playing a video game. As Fehzor said earlier, an addiction to a substance is usually caused by some chemical response within the brain. Over time, the individual's body gets used to having such chemicals within their system (usually called a chemical dependency), which is why you see plenty of individuals attempting to quit "cold turkey" suffering from withdrawal symptoms. In fact, medical professionals tend to suggest that it's not a very smart idea to quit taking a drug so abruptly, as it may be quite dangerous. With regards to games however, as there are no physical changes or chemical dependencies involved (I may be wrong, of course), it may be much easier to quit playing a game, as the game does not introduce any new substances into you body that it could be dependent upon.
We all have issues we need to deal with at some point in our lives. Expressing them on the forums (or anywhere else) can be quite the challenge. Raising your voice ( so to speak) on the forums is not what I personally would do, I would rather visit a therapist or go to confession (in your local church) to express issues, but I see why people have the need to post their specific issue here. I know that the issue is not meant to troll anyone, although some may view threads that way. The following is an example issue and what might do to stop it.
Problem: addiction
Let's say your example issue is addiction to...you guessed it Spiral Knights and you spend 6+ hours of nonstop playing (or grinding a certain mission/depth). It's not at all healthy to your body so one day you decide "let's do something that doesn't involve me AA killing in lockdown or hoarding vana tokens", you might go outside and do a run (pun) around the block for some exercise. At the end of the day you have done something productive!