Spiral Knights - Tortodrones: A field guide for the curious knight (all answers questioned!)

Tortodrones: A field guide for the curious knight (all answers questioned!)

45 replies [Last post]

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 06:20

Spiral-Spy

Can't find glyphs? Got beaten into a puddle by a 500 pound collossus trying to mate with you? Well, you could have been spared that fate by grabbing a copy of Spiralspy's handy field guide for cracking shells without getting your own skull cracked. It's free only today and for the rest of the hunting season, so get your copy while we still have some.

Disclaimer: Part of the Intel is based on last event's data, so we have to distribute it for free in order not to get sued in case there are inaccuracies.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 06:40

Blazzberry

SCP-96

Amazing guide. Especially the part where you said unusual gear is needed <3

Do you think you could add having a bit of MSI(Movement speed increase, minimal medium) helps in the long run for the tortodrones? I don't know exactly what any one else uses, but I can solo the fight just fine with msi med and a supernova/valiance.

Also, Parties need to agree on which way to run and not lead a rocket shard/tortodrone into another teammate. I've witnessed many people die constantly by playing tag amongst falcon punching turtles.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 07:09

Holy-Nightmare

Letting someone keep the

Letting someone keep the fiends thinned out helps, plus the Obsidian edge charge (long range) helps take the edge off of the silkwing healing and torto attacks (provided you can get a charge due to an overabundance of office chair flingage)

A good group would be 2 gunners a dedicated fiend buster and an OE/gunner

Full gunners would be safe if not for greavers.

Merc mail/demo makes for a good shock resist set but even with it the shock from the rock missiles is strong enough to give a Non UVed merc player 3-4 seconds of shock.

Valkyrie and Shadowsun are suggested as are any that resist shadow and/or shock

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 08:19

Batabii

Too bad the guide doesn't save you from infinite shard rain spam covering the entire screen...

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 10:35

The-Worst-Knight

In tier 3, you always get at

"In tier 3, you always get at least two shells per boss and a chance for two additional drops. "

I got 2 shells many times(1 per tortodrone) on elite T3. Max i got is 6.

"The danger rooms will drop glyphs upon completion. Running on normal and depending on tier, you are guaranteed three, six or nine glyphs. On advanced, you get nine, twelve or fifteen. Elite pays fifteen, eighteen and twenty one. This is in addition to what the individual fiends may drop."

That's not true too

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 09:33

Skepticraven

↓

For locations of glyphs....

You missed one:
Mysterious Fiend Arenas (Arenas changed from a normal one to a tortodrone themed one).

Also, I'll need to count the fiends in one arena because 2/100 seems a bit low - I get 2-3 drops per arena.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 09:59

Kuack

i found a danger room in t3

i found a danger room in t3 and only give me 7 on elite

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 10:02

Batabii

@worst

You said at least two shells per boss, then you say one per boss?

Also I've gotten three from one mission t3 elite before, so two is NOT the minimum. Yes, both bosses did drop shells.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 10:05

Spiral-Spy

@Skepticraven Wah, how sloppy

@Skepticraven

Wah, how sloppy of me.

Ok, updated the blogpost.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 10:37

The-Worst-Knight

@Batabii

Sorry, the first sentence is a quote.
I think, that max is 3 shells per tortodrone and on elite T3 you may get from 2 to 6 shells.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 10:57

#10

Dimbreath

I think it's unfair for

I think it's unfair for people that want to make the Shields + The Guns having to pay 400,000 crowns to make the IDs. Well, 400,000 crowns if you play the mission in Elite. Then add the 1,000 (3*), 2,500 (4*) and 5,000 (5*) plus the recipe costs and orbs costs. You'll end up using more than 700,000 crowns (and I'm just throwing a random number.) This should be changed.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 11:05

#11

Batabii

Pretty sure you're not accounting for the fact that, with a 4 person party, that comes to a measly 2500 crowns per mission.

But yeah the amount of grinding you have to do just to face completely broken overpowered enemies is insane.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 11:51

#12

Flowchart

I haven't tried pepperbox this time around, but I remember last time it still did less damage than blitz needle despite their piercing resistance.
Also, even though they resist bombs like shivermist they can still be frozen by hail driver.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 12:07

#13

Batabii

yeah but the fire could help...a little?

Is FOV charging worth the risk? Does Lev knock them back much?

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 15:35

#14

Spiral-Spy

@Kuack "i found a danger room

@Kuack
"i found a danger room in t3 and only give me 7 on elite"

There are danger rooms and there are tortofied danger rooms. If you only got 7 glyphs, then you probably did a regular one. The event rooms look like the ancient grove.

@Skepticraven
"Also, I'll need to count the fiends in one arena because 2/100 seems a bit low - I get 2-3 drops per arena."

Aha! So you are the lucky bastard who is hogging all the glyphs and causing the "too few glyph drops" threads :P. Fun thing about RNGs: it is entirely possible that you get way more glyphs than you should. This will average out when your sample size becomes sufficiently large.

@The-Worst-Knight

Yeah, seems like I was off by one. Just double checked and ammended my blog post accordingly. Note that I now recommend playing on T3/advanced. Elite doesn't seem to be worth it.

@Blastcore

Your math is wrong. First of all, you don't need recipies beyond the 2* one (that's 39k off). Second, if you are paying all the ID cards yourself, you are seriously doing something wrong in terms of teamwork. Your cost should be around a quarter of your estimate (less if you are good at what you are doing and people let you in for free for your help).

Assuming you buy energy for 6.5k and are a freshly baked vanguard with no spare orbs left, your crafting costs are:

0.5*6500 cr + 2 * 6500 cr + 4*6500 cr + 8*6500 cr + 400 cr + 1000 cr + 2500 cr + 5000 cr = 103150 cr

Per item.

The cards come at about 90k. If you are a teamplayer, you can bring that down to 22.5k cr. You will probably have to spend some sparks. A pack of ten comes at 13k.

So all in all you are paying 138650 cr which is roughly a third of your fantasy number and on par with any other 5* gear due to the fact that you don't need recipies.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 15:51

#15

Batabii

So far my best results have come from using suraduska charges.

However it's pointless because it's impossible to not die. rock crystals covering the entire screen, greavers, devilites, invisible attacks (no idea), random vortexes, horrible framerate, and everything causes stun and shock even with a set that resists it. I had mercurial demo on and I still got shocked to death. Shields are meaningless because you get hit endlessly, and seraphic aura has no effect on tortodrones, plus they can't be interrupted and are immune to almost all knockback. There's nowhere to run and no amount of defense seems to matter.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 15:59

#16

Spiral-Spy

@Batabii Oh, its quite

@Batabii

Oh, its quite possible to do it without dying. At least I remember that I rarely had to spark towards the end of the last event. I think the trick was attacking when the tortos carpet bomb (that's when they hold still). Of course, you shouldn't do that when you are targeted (in that case, you run).

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:21

#17

Batabii

let me rephrase that.

It's impossible to do without dying on t3 elite, without triple max uvs, 4 weapons, and 2 trinkets, and using a brand new $5,000 custom gaming pc that's three blocks away from the OOO servers.

I have tons of gear, and I've been playing for over 2,500 hours (100% achievements), and I die twice on a GOOD run.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:22

#18

Flowchart

That's how Batabii seems to be.

If he can't beat a greaver arena, it's impossible for anyone else to do.
If he can't get 1000 sparks, it's impossible for anyone else to do so.
If he can't beat tortodrones without dying, it's impossible for anyone else.

If someone claims to, they're lying.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:23

#19

Spiral-Spy

My computer did cost 300€,

My computer did cost 300€, stands in Germany, my gear has mediocre UVs and a trinket slot isn't that expensive. You were saying :P?

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:44

#20

Terrifying-Pancake

Um...batabii...no offense,

Um...batabii...no offense, but you're just not as good at the game as other people.

Some people practice sprts for hours on end, and still never make it to the opens/world cup/international level.

In this case, you have experience but not as much skill as some other players. Experience does not directly correlate with ability. Just keep trying though! I gotta agree, elite torto is a yolo 3 spark per run endeavor. :)

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:50

#21

Skepticraven

↓

@Batabii

Do I need to take a screenshot of me having an ER after a run like I did during grinchlin assault?

@Spiral-Spy

I'm very aware of how strange the RNG can be, especially for rare drops. 10 arenas worth of fiends average is not enough, but has a relatively close estimate. 5k datapoints for a 2% rate is probably a reasonable amount (100 successes). Someday I'll have some really good averages for rarity drop rates. Just out of curiosity, about how much data do you have for that 2% estimate?

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 17:03

#22

Batabii

@flowchart

as if I'm the only one in the world who
- has trouble beating 10 simultaneous greavers
- gets one spark a run, if i'm LUCKY
- Cant beat a tortodrone without even dying once

If they can do it, there's no reason I shouldn't be able to no matter what. you might as well brag about how you can bench press 300 lbs. Sure, it might be possible, and you might have done it, but it's just not reasonable to expect the vast majority of people to even come close, and it's not MY problem the game (or parts thereof) are broken.

@fettuccine

I may not be the best player in the world, but practice makes perfect, and I've practiced more than long enough that this is clearly broken game design and not lack of skill. I've done this event before (and countless greaver arenas), and pretty much nothing has changed.

Again, using the bench pressing metaphor, if someone lifts weights every day, they'll be able to lift more and more. You're making it sound as if I could only lift 50lbs no matter how I worked out.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 17:17

#23

Fehzor

And please don't put your number in my phone <69 (Don't do that)

@Larry

You just got told by Fettuccine-Alfredo. Day has been made.

As for your actual points, yes, these things are challenging but they are very deliberately challenging so that when we overcome the ridiculous unfair wave of grievers, we feel GREAT. If we didn't have unfair grievers, we wouldn't get that feeling, and there wouldn't be any reason to stay and practice, would there?

They aren't impossible by any means as others have stated. Yes, I had trouble with the 12 grievers too the first dozen times through. I still get caught by them on occasion. But they're very much doable. In fact, everything in the game is doable. Last year I had a streak of about tenish runs where I didn't even use my ER on the tortodrone. This year, they put some grievers in the mix and its all fresh and new, and I'm finding new ways around it and improving myself.

Sure, it isn't reasonable to expect you to bench press huge amounts of weight. But if you go to the gym every day and avoid the weight sets altogether in favor of something like the treadmill, then you shouldn't be outraged by it, because you aren't trying to overcome the challenge or working towards doing so. No?

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 17:39

#24

Spiral-Spy

@Skepticraven "Someday I'll

@Skepticraven

"Someday I'll have some really good averages for rarity drop rates. Just out of curiosity, about how much data do you have for that 2% estimate?"

Sufficient. I don't discuss my sources, though (having an aura of secrecy around yourself is a must have if your are role playing a spy, wouldn't you agree ;) )?

Just keep in mind that I'm known to make mistakes. I chalked up the 2% as what I have come to consider plausible. Of course, it is up to the community to confirm or deny this (The-worst-knight already called me out on miscounting the shells - really emberassing).

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 18:22

#25

Spiral-Spy

@Batabii To stick with the

@Batabii

To stick with the metapher: There are people who tell you that they can lift 300 lbs, there are people who work out daily because they want to be able to lift 300 lbs too, but most people will simply shrug and use a pulley. In other words: if you have problems with a dozen greavers in the final arena round, it may be because you are using the wrong strategy.

You got 2.5k hours of playtime, plenty of gear, think about different approaches. There is a loadout that makes short work of your problem.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 18:27

#26

Dimbreath

@Spiral-Spy: 103,150 * 8 =

@Spiral-Spy: 103,150 * 8 = 825,200. Obviously I wasn't talking about 700,000 crowns a single item, that would be really weird. But still, 825,200 crowns for most of players is a lot.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 18:34

#27

Fangel

Heh...

Batabii, your ignorance never fails to put a really malicious smile on my face.

Take that in whatever way you want.

I'm going to go all metaphorical on this too. Since we'll all doing weights n' that sort, let me throw bodybuilding into the mix.
A bodybuilder is someone who works their body so that it looks really nice. This can be through efforts such as lifting weights, eating the right foods, getting the correct amount of sleep, etc. Some people take an easier route and use steroids or other hormones, which is generally frowned upon, regardless that it brings out the same results.

This being said, some people will naturally have really nice bodies because of their lifestyle. Others will have mediocre or even just horrid bodies from taking different choices. Sure, they can all potentially be a body builder, but not everyone can, given their life factors. Being employed eight hours a day and working several hours overtime every day might make it impossible to build a body worthy of a bodybuilding show. That doesn't mean it's impossible to build such a body, just that it is naturally harder to do.

Now with all the metaphors defined, let me place a few people around. Batabii, you are just naturally unable to build a nice body. You don't have a bad one, but it's nothing like what some people have. Quite a few people in this thread have a rather nice body, but not a perfect one. Some people are scrambling to make their body look nice because holy smokes the contest is just around the corner and they've been cramming their faces with ice cream from the summer weather.

And about that SoL claim...

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 18:47

#28

Pandafishie

@Fang
Baby got back.
And hey, genetics are great. I got it from my momma after all ;D

P.S Re: the pic -> 900+ of those SoLs are bound.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 20:02

#29

Smalltownguy

Batabil, at least you have

Batabil, at least you have company. Those tortos have little cause to fear me.

Of course, I'm a 57-year-old man using an 8-year-old laptop on a shakey network connection. And my best gear is *4.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 21:40

#30

Blazzberry

SCP-96

It's impossible to do without dying on t3 elite, without triple max uvs, 4 weapons, and 2 trinkets, and using a brand new $5,000 custom gaming pc that's three blocks away from the OOO servers.

Man Batabii, You sure like to make excuses when you lose. It's ok to use some of these things if you're outnumbered by enemies getting jumped. .-.

Picture of me using my ER after tortodrone fight.

Picture of me in mission from anonymous friend.

Picture of my Supernova

My valiance

Gear if you want to look at that too. My shadowsun has stun resistance medium(which is useless) and my divine mantle gives piercing resistance medium but if you honestly think that turns the tide in the fight well....derp.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 21:56

#31

The-Worst-Knight

Let me count cost of the key.

Let me count cost of the key. Glyphs(from AH): 500cr*25=12500 + craft 10000cr= 22500cr.
If you want to get enough shells for a craft, you have to make about 10 runs, so 225kcr is max that you may spend. But if you play with friends 225k/4=56k, it doesn't mean that you will take crowns for run, it's mean that some of your friends will invite you cause you invited them. Not so much. If you want to get mats by yourself that number will be 25000cr for the shells.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 22:13

#32

Batabii

@spiral-spy

You think I haven't tried that? I'm sick of wasting sols on "different approaches" that inevitably fail. Also, any strategy that says "you must have this specific weapon or you can't win" is just proving how broken they are.

@blazzberry

You're completely missing the point. I'm not saying it's not "okay" to use them, I'm saying it's insane it should be a requirement, especially when in a 4-player party with all 5* gear. There's no other (non-shadow lair*) boss in the entire game that I can't beat on Elite without using a sol.

*I wouldnt risk soloing a shadow lair anyway, not with the cost of keys

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 01:10

#33

Blazzberry

SCP-96

Well, it's good to know you looked at my pictures, because if you did you'd know I had nothing on me but damage boosters. I had no asi nor max uvs.

Edit:I only have asi low on my valiance. It's so isignificant I myself forgot it was there. My mistake. :x

Therefore debunking your claim that triple maxes are required, and four weapon slots. In a four man team that's five star, one of you are more than likely going to kill your teammate by leading some sort of attack from a tortodrone into someone else. And really, out of the four weapons I had what do you honestly think I used the most?

But hey, you can keep complaining. I'll be making my third tortogun by tomorrow. Cheers.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 01:34

#34

Neometal

@ somebody

I got this from the previous event (t3 elite, ofc).

I simply like to call these torto or fiend dr-s (since u actually have to pay the 3 ce for them), and the other ones, which have no energy gates, scenario rooms.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 03:19

#35

The-Worst-Knight

@Neometal

Yes, there is only one danger room that gives so many glyphs. That room has dead torto in the center.

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 11:24

#36

Me-Luv-Ulongtime

@Batabii

"Practice DOES NOT make perfect." Not even MJ was perfect. "Practice makes BETTER...IF YOU CAN LEARN FROM YOUR MISTAKES!!"

With that said, it's very possible to beat Tortos without all the maxed out gear you suggest, and not dying. A really good team whose tactical qualities you can trust as good or better than your own. I've survived deathless or just ER in quite a few fights with people i can depend on. Though, most of us have fairly good UV'd gear already as we're long time players ^.^

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 14:25

#37

Dimbreath

@The-Worst-Knight Where you

@The-Worst-Knight Where you can find those danger rooms?

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 21:07

#38

The-Worst-Knight

@Blastcore

Fiendish level with gear icon, dont remember name. Also it may appear near usual danger room, but usually it gives 5-7 glyphs, like small arena in fiendish city levels.

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 09:32

#39

Spiral-Spy

Ok, half-time into the event,

Ok, half-time into the event, more data arrived and it seems that my original estimate on shell drops was actually more accurate. On an average, you appear to get two to three shells on T3/advanced and three to four shells on T3/elite per battle. Since a 5* gear needs 28 shells, you need to do 28/3.5=8 runs on elite vs. 28/2.5 =11.2 runs on advanced.

That means an entry cost difference of 40k between advanced and elite. At an energy price of 6.6k those 40k will buy you about 30 sparks from the depot. If you need to spark more then 3 times per battle on elite, then it's more economical to play on advanced.

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 10:36

#40

Batabii

RNG is a jerk

I get an average of 3 shells per mission, at least that's what I've noticed, I haven't actually been keeping detailed records. I think it's supreme bull♥♥♥♥ that I should even have a CHANCE of getting a measly two ancient shells from an elite t3 run.

Also even if it IS more cost efficient, I cringe at the idea of ever buying sols from the supply depot.

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 12:13

#41

Autofire

You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

Well, to this whole Batabii vs. the world thing, I say this:

When there is a disagreement, one side is usually crazy.

So either Batabii is crazy and the world is sane, or Batabii is the only sane guy in the world. I lean towards the latter.

But I still take the world's side: Get over it. Greavers are too much fun to wipe out with my DVS. (Without Fiend bonus or ASI. I have CTR, though, which does work as long as I can reach a corner.)

On topic, nice guide. Too bad I can't participate as much as I'd like, but hopefully I can still get a 5* Shield. (I got a 4* one in the last event and couldn't get a 5* one.)

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 12:29

#42

Batabii

Yes. I'm crazy. Even though there isn't a single person in my party who ever survived without reviving. I guess I'm just hallucinating every single mission I've ever run.

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 13:07

#43

Dimbreath

I didn't die in one Tortodone

I didn't die in one Tortodone run... In normal. :(

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 14:20

#44

Instant-Noodles

First off, excellent guide Spiral-Spy!

For those interested, here's the data I've collected in regards to the Crowns/Shells Payout in the T3 Elite Mission. Party sizes ranged from 2 to 4 players. All data is from this current event only.

Data, Charts, & Summary Statistics:

http://i.imgur.com/fYOWxNc.png

Short Version (from 206 data points):

T3 Elite - Ancient Shell Average = 3.59 Shells
T3 Elite - Crown Average = 189.34 Crowns

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 14:20

#45

Batabii

Why are the crowns relevant? It's the least crowns of any mission that isn't 0.

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Tortodrones: A field guide for the curious knight (all answers questioned!)