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3 suggestions I thought about

10 replies [Last post]
Mon, 09/22/2014 - 11:08
Elmetto

Hello everybody!
I’ve been playing SK for more than 480 hours so far, and I’m still not tired of playing such an amazing game; but nonetheless, I’ve come to 3 points which I think could add something more to gameplay. It’s a long post, but I hope it’ll be worth the reading as I expect it to be :).

Here we go:

1. New guns
Despite the variety of ranged weapons that can be crafted, I’ve always felt like there are two important types which are still missing: shotguns and flamethrowers. I think these two could be easily implemented in the game and could make the gameplay even wider. Everybody who has played FPS knows the pros and cons of shotguns: very powerful in short range, but weak on long distances, high reload time, small magazine and slow rate of fire. Well, I think these characteristics could also be used in SK as well, creating a devastating weapon which forces knight to get close to enemies and to be left defenseless for a short time both when firing and reloading (which is a bit what happens with blitz needle by the way). Regarding flamethrowers… well, they are already in the game actually, but used by gremlins only. Knight could use them in the same way, with a standard attack which creates a row of flames and a charged attack which creates a wall of fire. There could also be some varieties of flamethrowers, such as one which shoots liquid nitrogen to freeze enemies, or one which spits poisonous goo.

2. New battle sprites
This is surely an issue that someone has already written about in this forum, and that Three Rings is probably already working on already, but I would like to talk about it anyway, as I think this is quite important /interesting.
After the patch which eliminated the possibility to sell minerals in order to change a clockwork’s floors, minerals had become absolutely useless, and adding battle sprites has partly solved this problem, as crimsonite, dark matter and luminite can now be used to craft food for our little helpers. But unfortunately, this didn’t happen for moonstones and valestones: these type of minerals are still with no use rather than selling them to merchants (which would just give you a little amount of crowns, anyway), and I think this could be a good occasion to add new battle sprites to the game. In my opinion this would not only solve the aforementioned problem, but also add new gameplay possibilities: for example, valestones remind me of beast floors, so I think there could be added a battle sprite in the form of a little beast (maybe a bird… ) which could give power ups to knight in the same way an alpha wolver boost his companions with its howl. This is just an idea, but I think that, with the help of other forum users, and gathering each one’s opinion, this could be achieved quite easily.

3. Dual wielding
Ok, I must admit here that this suggestion is a little too courageous , as it would drastically change the gameplay, but if I’m proposing this, it’s because I’ve seen SK change a lot during these years, and I think Three Rings won’t be afraid to change it even more. Obviously, dual wielding would result in both advantages and disadvantages for the player, and I have here some example for melee and ranged weapons which could give you an idea of what I’m thinking about:

Melee weapons: Advantages: there could be an increase to melee attack speed, or a more powerful charge attack.
Disadvantages: many could say that the most obvious disadvantage would be not having a shield to defend, but I think that, in this way, none would choose to play dual wielding, as it would be too risky. What I’m proposing, is to have an health bar on swords as it happens with shields (obviously that would be far lower than the shield’s one), so that it will be possible to block incoming attacks. Also, blocking while dual wielding could grant no knockback on enemies, or, as an alternative, you could only be able to block frontal attacks.

Ranged weapons: Advantages: there could be an increase on the bullets one can shoot before reloading, or a more powerful charge attack.
Disadvantages: It could take more time to reload weapons, leaving knight defenseless for some time, and there could be no shield blocking at all, as attacking in range is always safer than melee.
Also, there could be some weapons which are impossible to dual wield because they’re too big or heavy (even if they’re usually held in one hand…), for example troikas, or blitz needle.
I think this could be an issue to try on one of the test servers.

I’m no game designer, so I’m perfectly conscious that the things I think could be easily manageable, could actually be hard to implement, and that some, if not all, of these points are difficult or even impossible to put in the game due to a high amount of work they could bring with them, but these are just some suggestions I thought I should share, and I hope to hear your opinion about it.

Mon, 09/22/2014 - 12:08
#1
Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
I haven't seen a flamethrower

I haven't seen a flamethrower idea before (that I can remember) but the shotgun idea while not common has recently been suggested.

People have talked about the 4th and 5th battlesprite since the update, dual wield has been around even longer (just google dual wield spiral knights)

Mon, 09/22/2014 - 12:35
#2
Elmetto
I actually thought that

I actually thought that someone could have already suggested some of the 3 points, especially the one about battle sprite, but I didn't imagine point 1 to be the most original of the 3 XD

Mon, 09/22/2014 - 13:07
#3
Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
+1 for Flamethrower, -1 for rest...

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/104887

This guy got the shotgun so all you really have that is new to me is the Flamethrower. Basically a combuster charge with no knockback right?

Mon, 09/22/2014 - 13:35
#4
Elmetto
Yes, that's the idea.

Yes, that's the idea. Or otherwise it could be used the animation of Darkfang Scorchers, even if it's smaller than the combuster one.
The fire wall too could work that way, even if I think that, being a charge attack, it should have a little knockback (just a little).
I think that the only inconvenient of this kind of weapon is that it could be reduced to a gun version of the Ash of Agni (and similar bombs)

Mon, 09/22/2014 - 16:22
#5
Sir-Shadow-Striker's picture
Sir-Shadow-Striker
+1 to the flamethrower!

I don't want to set the world, on, fire.... I just want to start a flame in your heart.... Screw that, I want to burn everything!!

Tue, 09/23/2014 - 11:53
#6
Fangel's picture
Fangel
Lot of recapping here.

The flamethrower idea isn't bad. I'm assuming elemental damage?
Potentially the weapon could be like the catalyzer after the catalyzer gets changed. Charge attack for an oil slick, then any source of fire (including the regular shots) would light it on fire. Oil slicks would slow enemies, and light anything inside on fire while dealing a small amount of damage itself.
The wall of fire on charge shot does the same deal. Would be fun to create walls of fire in PvP with a team. Only other thing to ask is if we can curve the fire shots like gremlins do?

Just about everything else you suggested has been suggested many times in different alterations. Shotguns are just swords with gun damage bonuses. We don't really need them, especially since this isn't an FPS in any way. Swords are for close range, guns are for long range, and bombs are for a radius.
Dual wielding shows up more often than it really should. It's not a bad suggestion, especially the way you suggested it, but it really is unnecessary. Being without a shield is useless, and then you consider how that would work in lockdown (would you still get your shield boost AND the improved weapons?). Also, shield bash key becomes useless.
Shields are simply too important to be left out. The two ways dual wielding can be implemented into spiral knights would be:
A) A new shield type that acts as a second weapon when attacking, but acts like a weak shield. I've recommended a parrying blade that counter-attacks when hit, but has health like any other shield would so you can't continuously counter attacks. This also would not break lockdown as it is a shield.
B) A new weapon line. This weapon line could have faster attack speeds but still let the user use their shield. Essentially, another cutter/antigua. So when you think about it, a new weapon line is awfully redundant.

And as for battle sprites, we all know about them. The reason we lost the ability to deposit minerals was because valestone and moonstone were useless, so people just dumped them into the gates, creating an arcade composed entirely of freeze and poison levels, sans the boss strata. A new use or battle sprite (or two) would be great, but not a priority.

Tue, 09/23/2014 - 12:20
#7
Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
@ Fangel

The shotgun would prove useful, it is basically an autogun that would be more mobile, rather than having to stand to shoot 6 bullets you can run and shoot half that with knockback on each comparable to the valiance. It would probably end up being a DA equivalent gun, with reliable knockback and damage but without as much damage as a blitz needle.

As for your guns being for long range.... well we do have Tortoguns which really blur that line.

As for the flamethrower I envisioned it more like a hotrode laser without the knockback

Tue, 09/23/2014 - 13:00
#8
Fangel's picture
Fangel
Eah...

As for the flamethrower I envisioned it more like a hotrode laser without the knockback
What you want is a combuster charge without knockback. Not really anything new to play with.

Tortoguns themselves are the exception, not the rule. They still have a projectile, and if you take the lunge as being an extra tile of projectile range, then it doesn't have terrible range. Guns are for range. Doesn't matter how much as long as your enemy can't melee you.

Shotguns would essentially be a blitz needle without the drawbacks. The reason blitz roots you in place is because it fires multiple shots in one click. A shotgun not only does the same thing without rooting you in place, but it also lacks the range that the blitz has that makes it a viable "gun". We would also have to be able to shoot the gun using one hand.
If you wanted it to be a close-range callahan, well, use the callahan... or the tortoguns at close range. Guns are supposed to be safe, except weaker, whereas swords are strong yet riskier. Except brandishes are just stupidly safe with that charge attack while still being powerful.

Tue, 09/23/2014 - 14:19
#9
Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
The flamethrower could be

The flamethrower could be something like an antigua gun with bullets that have a movement speed of catalyzer bullets, this would result in a steady stream of fire inflicting bullets.

The shotgun could have the same power as the blitz (damage per bullet at least) but only fire half as much and with similar bullet distribution on the regular attack, the charge would be similar to the blitz but would still only fire half as many bullets. The only upside of this gun is mobility and shorter reload time. (It is possible to shoot a long barreled weapon and reload it with one hand http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-cPWheNyaA at 0:45 watch the way he handles the rifle)

Tue, 09/23/2014 - 23:07
#10
Klipik-Forum's picture
Klipik-Forum

When people suggest shotguns, I point to heavy swords. They do all the things you described - high damage, short range, high reload time, slow fire rate, AoE.

When people suggest dual wielding: I tell them to google "site:forums.spiralknights.com dual wield" and read everything. But really they all say the same thing: having twice your normal damage output is overpowered, no matter what crutch you add, unless the crutch makes it so bad no one would dual wield at all because it would be 100% worse than single wielding. Prime example: two brandish charges kill about 90% of enemies. If you can unleash that at the same time, you can OHKO everything. There are also problems with hybridizing (gun+sword, gun+bomb, etc). The only feasible solution anyone has come up with (backed up by Nick if I remember correctly) is creating entirely new weapons that are dual-wielded by default (ex: redesign the cutter model so you hold two swords, and replace the phantom strike with a swing from the off-hand sword).

You didn't actually suggest anything for new Sprites, so nothing to say here. Other than the fact that all current sprites give atk/defense buffs already.

Flamethrowers are cool, but I think they would end up having the worst qualities of an AoA and com user charge with none if the positives. Slow-firing, mid-range, low damage, no interrupt or knockback/CC.

But I like the style of your ideas. Keep 'em comin :3

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