Spiral Knights - Another AT thread ( again)

Another AT thread ( again)

71 replies [Last post]

Tue, 11/04/2014 - 12:09

#51

Krakob

If you're gonna post about the thread topic, then you shouldn't put it beneath the part that says @Playername. Do as you have edited your post from the start, or simply put on-topic content at the top of your post. You'll get a lot of misunderstandings if you don't.

Fri, 11/07/2014 - 13:51

#52

Valtiros

Second paragraph, so because

Second paragraph, so because people worked hard to get an unfair advantage, they should be allowed to keep it? And yes just like how you guys question OOO's decision to keep AT, I (and others) question the whole idea of UVs not to mention they are usable in PvE and are in fact effective there. Also, I do not think the fact OOO's is making money off of it justifies bringing unbalance to PvP. I haven't a clue how their money system works, but if it turns out it is in fact a money scheme and pay to win, well then I think OOO's is not very honest for using such methods. I read other mmo's do this, so in response I just think they're all not very honest :| they make plenty of money off the costume promotions, often more than they deserve. I also place blame on the players for craving an advantage over others. They feed this system and are suckered into it. Yes, in various ways I too am suckered in :| I won't deny my flaws but I am willing give up my gear I worked for, for the sake of others.

>it s not a question of justice. It s about financial possibility. OOO can't make something that would make loose money and make people unhappy. It would just be the best way to destroy pvp and even the game.

Your reasoning about connection applies fully to non-ATusers who can proceed to beat up laggy people. We can't do anything about laggy people, they will get beaten up (if they add new servers which will happen when Haven freezes over, I'll throw a party). Oh btw I heard a suggestion once that if someone has 4 bar connection, then AT is to be disabled. Just a thought and like all plans, it has its flaws and complications though.

> it's way easier and faster to kill someone with auto aim than without it.

Sat, 11/08/2014 - 17:02

#53

Krabby-Patty

AT my opinion

Yeah AT is useful for the new guys and for a Vana Duke and SL's and stuff...but once you have hit the PVP area you are basically wanting to fight other players, to out match other players and basically try and be one of the best in the end...the "OP". So if you are wanting to be skilled and want to be legit. No AT..maybe for tier 2 because they haven't beat the game yet...but for tier 3 yup..no AT in my opinion..I've been busy dying to be semi-good in LD...and it sure sucks when a random guy totally out weighs you..with the aid of AT...idc if it's EU or USA no AT in my opinion...I did use to AT achy when I first started LD...thought I was good..till I turned it off..and now it's permanently off in LD..and I'm definitely better than I was when I first started 😊😊😊

Mon, 11/10/2014 - 13:02

#54

Holy-Nightmare

@ Krabby-patty

About half the players in T2 are Pro Vanguards from T3, the rest are the T2 knights that are trying to play LD. Basically T2 is just a game of shooting fish in a barrel for T3 players who don't have the skill to compete against full teams of other Pro LD players. So they run to T2 to beat up on noobs till they feel better about themselves......

Oh you can beat a knight in 2 star armor without any HP trinkets that has never played LD ever, You must be such an MLG gamer.................(prick)

Mon, 11/10/2014 - 13:57

#55

Krakob

@Holy Nightmare

T2 is a very different meta from T3, it's not just about beating weaker players for everyone. Personally, I enjoy T2 because of various reasons. For one, because people are downright nicer there. In T3, there's someone complaining every game and insults all over the place. In T2, there's simply a lot less of that.
While the meta is perhaps more limited, the skill level present in T2 allows for more goofy/experimental play with unconventional gear if you so wish.
Lastly, T2 is a lot more forgiving than T3. In the latter, you can rush out of your base, run into three angry Skolvers swinging their Gran Fausts at you, get hit once by a combo and only survive the other two because of invinciframes, just to be killed by a Final Flourish as you try to run back to base. In T2, a much greater amount of hits are required to kill, which is nice for everyone, in my opinion.

Edit: I almost forgot, four words which explain why everyone should play T2:
Cold Snap is viable.

Mon, 11/10/2014 - 15:34

#56

Holy-Nightmare

@ Krakob

Regardless I feel like players who are good players in T3 shouldn't be put in matches with players fresh to T2, yes T2 is fun but only if it is with players of similar skill. It becomes rather dull when you can SS combo everyone to death in 2-3 hits. And I'm pretty sure noobs would enjoy trying out LD without getting blasted everytime they step out of spawn.

I would rather that LD matches be split even further into 6 tiers for each weapon level (lowest weapon star lvl is 0), this would keep those players who just got a 4star out of the hypercompetitive T6 (the equivalent to the current T3).

___________________________________________________________

The T2 meta is very limited, bombs are practically useless (except against new players) and the common weapons are pretty much the same as T3

Flourish, SS, Brandish, blaster, Antigua, hammer

Armor is pretty much limited to Dusker or BK. (gunslinger or bomber is practically never used)

Tue, 11/11/2014 - 12:29

#57

Krakob

I'd say bombs are more well balanced in T2. Their excessive area denial is traded for greater power. In T3, bombs are purely a pay to win game. You can't use them with good sets unless you have UVs, they're viable for Strikers only if you have bombs worth tons of energy, countering them is a matter of either getting a single set for a single bomb or being as rich as possible and Punching all the bombs away.

In T2, I don't think I've ever seen anyone immune vs a bomb, nor have I ever seen a Striker bomber.

While it's true that the common weapons are more or less the same, the viable weapons are a lot more than those. Troikas, 1* bombs, 2* Edge swords, etc. I haven't done any counting, but I'd guess that the percent of weapons which can be considered viable in T2 exceed the same numbers for T3.

As for gear, it's true that it's more limited. However, gunslinger and bomber sets are perfectly viable and Fencing Jacket and Cyclops Cap provide some pretty interesting glass cannon build opportunities, as opposed to T3 where "glass cannon" sets provide as much health and almost as much defence as class sets and even supposedly defensive sets. While it's not more varied than T3, it's by all means more balanced, save for the BK gear which is really out of place in T2.

Tue, 11/11/2014 - 12:39

#58

Turn-Me-On

@KrakobI thought Pnusy was

@Krakob

I thought Pnusy was one of the best bombers, and he doesnt have any significant bomb UVs

His helm is broken AF tho, but looks like a lucky craft

Also, P2W if striker bombing, definitely.

You are definitely correct that the troika is viable in T2, but it takes lots of prediction still. Not as pathetically slow as T3, where it seems slower even if it isnt. Weird....

Seems like T2 has high weapon variety and low armor variety (dusker clones replaced BK clones), while T3 has moderately high weapon variety and moderate armor variety. (All in terms of viable pieces). T1 tho....

Tue, 11/11/2014 - 12:45

#59

Krakob

I agree, Pnusy is really cool! Dunno what his helmet had, though.

3* Troikas probably share speed with their 5* counterparts and that should be the case for Sealed Swords as well. What makes the difference is that a lot of people invest in UVs on their 5* SSs, whereas very few people get 5* Troikas and only a fraction of those get ASI UVs on them anyway. Thus, there will be a greater difference in many many cases when you look at it comparatively.

What makes Troikas viable in T2 is that their charges are way better than the SS charge (although the SS charge is still tons of fun) as well as Grintovec's status on combo. It should however be noted that Troikas have the same combo damage and range as Sealed Swords despite their slower swing speed.

Tue, 11/11/2014 - 13:14

#60

Deleted-Knight

T2 > T3 in terms of skill-based combat

1. No trinket striker can tank a SS combo. Impossible to tank GF combo without trinkets in T3.
2. Guardian shields tanks more hits.
3. Brandish charge less OP.
4. Pulsar has smaller Area coverage.
5. Blaster bullets don't time travel like Devilite projectiles.
6. In general, a more friendly community.
7. No BK equip--Oh wait...Maybe that's why T2 died.

Tue, 11/11/2014 - 13:34

#61

Krakob

T2 was dead far before the BK gear and honestly, I don't think it gave dominant players a much greater advantage than they already had. But yes, it's an atrocity.

Tue, 11/11/2014 - 13:57

#62

Holy-Nightmare

Many reasons

T2 died because people want to get big BIG numbers and that only happens in T3 (not impossible in T2 just not as common).

T2 is also dead due to the lack of appropriate leveled players that know about LD and how it works.

One last reason is that some people come back from the Hypercompetitive T3 and just ruin the experience of LD for the players who should probably be there (the ones who can't get to T3).

Tue, 11/11/2014 - 15:45

#63

Theirillusion

No, T2 is dead because most T2 players who has none higher than 3* gear farm cr and do missions untill they are T3.

Tue, 11/11/2014 - 16:27

#64

Nottheanswer

It's funny cause the AT thread turned into a T2 thread.

Real talk though, it's kinda sad that every T2 discussion turns into "why did it die". I left T2 for T3 when every game turned into a stomp one way or the other, with the stomp-ing team haze locking multiple points, Antigua spamming, or something fun like that. Even in uneven T3 games, it feels like there's always something to do. That said, I don't really play at all any more, so what do I know \o/

@Krakob: There are/were certainly people with status immunity. One of my alts was double-status immune as guardian (6 freeze and 6 shock), and I know there are people who run a Dusker set with at least freeze high. UVs definitely are, in general, more rare though. Seen a handful of people run bombs as striker, Miat and Ballpeg come to mind.

BK is kinda out of place, but I feel that the hood at least is a good addition. Makes both guns and statuses a bit stronger, which weakens the full-sword meta that T2's been stuck in for a while.

Tue, 11/11/2014 - 22:51

#65

Turn-Me-On

Theirillusion is correct On

Theirillusion is correct

On my account, Purgion (looong gone), T2 was thriving. Ancientdragon, RDZknightz, and other people who were moderately good played T2 all the time. I had a troika and the dumbest armor to use (salamander). Was fun, gotta admit. Tons of dusker clones

Also, @Krakob

Weird thing about the troika, I had an ASI High suda and swiftstrike, and it still seemed slower than my asi H avenger. The attack would have like a "hiccup" and finish later than avenger. Also, recovery time seems longer, but i cant justify without evidence, this is just based off of use. I think i rage vendored it, it sucked so much in LD...

Wed, 11/12/2014 - 04:30

#66

Krakob

Oh wow, I just realised that we managed to derail an AT thread! Isn't that pretty amazing, people? A year ago or so, every thread was derailed and turned into an AT thread! This is what I call progress.

Wed, 11/12/2014 - 06:51

#67

Theirillusion

@Krakob

Sorry, let's get back on track. T2 seems to have more hammer+toothpick AT noobs than in T3 judging from when I've played T2.

Sat, 11/15/2014 - 06:48

#68

Klipik-Forum

Just throwing my opinion in here, T2 died because of the forge. Since there's no longer any paywall stopping people from getting to T3, they don't have time to stop in T2, get bored, and try LD. They just cruise to T3.

Sat, 11/15/2014 - 08:23

#69

Krakob

@Klipik

You're probably more familiar with the T2 community that was than I am, but I'd like to recall that T2 was around after the sprite update as well.

Sat, 11/15/2014 - 18:42

#70

Theirillusion

I just played some T2 lockdown. Anyone who says there are skilled "tier 2" players is either lying or cant tell skill from AT. Such a low level, like 2011 level. Really bad players. If you find a good player in tier 2 it's most likely a main tier 3 LD player.

Sun, 11/16/2014 - 23:52

#71

Klipik-Forum

The highest-skill players were never in T2. But it's just a more fun experience imo, because there tend to be less UVs and less weapons that kill in two hits. The fights are more action-packed and less anticlimactic, and because the weapons are less powerful you need to use more strategy during the actual fights. More mechanics-dependent and less reaction-time-dependent.

And also, the T2 of today is a far cry from what it was in 2012 and early 2013. Everyone there for the most part is a T3 main, because no one stays in T2 long enough to be a T2 main like I was. Plus because it doesn't happen as often and the playerbase is generally smaller, you can't practice as much.

@Krakob, not for much longer. The decline pretty much started then and continued steadily down until early 2014. My guess is people figured out either SK or T2 LD was dying and moved on, either to T3 or other games. From there T2 just became what it is now, with slight periods of higher activity like the late summer when Demonology re-formed and was forcing T2 matches every day.

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Another AT thread ( again)