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Wolver (Enemy) Suggestion - Evolution of the Weak

11 replies [Last post]
Sun, 10/26/2014 - 18:46
Supnaplamqw's picture
Supnaplamqw

"When I was but a squirt, a midst a boring school cirriculum and a personal hit list as an antic rogue lied only Grampa Leif's stories as relief from all the pandemonium, yes a place where I could live--a place where I could dream.As I walk past the looted corpses with my blood-stained blade today,I often think back to his tales--an experience to which were ours and ours alone. The most intriguing were tales involving a certain type of beast, beasts cute yet deadly in all perspectives; no tale was epic without it.They were cunning beasts who were able to single-handedly turn a simple expedition into a full scale war.I felt the grief Leif had when he spoke of his fallen comrades those days and the inner rage each time he spoke of the beasts' name. At the time I had not realized his plan;under my menace self he had planted a knight's ambition.Now as I drag myself out into the battlefield,I feel more and more as a pawn to what may be mere fiction.This beast, I have striven for;how can pets waiting to be tamed be descendants of such an epic race who put the order to fear?This pity has lead to my smuggling of a wolver,but the worst part is that while understand each other quite well, how can I tell him of such a great fall from grace?"
-Anonymous

So I was thinking about this idea for a few days now after I a few days ago I stumbled upon a level in T3 mostly populated by wolvers and slimes.
Other than me putting on a DA b/c I mistaken it as a Construct level before hand, I had no trouble with the wolvers there while I let my teammate fight the slimes as I'm quite bad against them with DA. I soon tried to recall the times I ever had trouble with beasts in general-- the thing is, I couldn't. Fiends were the hardest monster for me with gremlins coming in 2nd b/c of their AI in comparison to other monsters I've faced. Construct difficulty for me as well as other people I've played with depended on location and grouping. Slimes post my 1-2 yr. break have been giving me some trouble.Do to my FSC runs the undead are generally easy.But the thing was I could remember times where I and other people I played with had trouble with those types of monster-- Beasts-- particularly wolvers-- are one of the reasons why I upgraded to Vog than to Skolver pre my 1-2 yr. break.

Now whether this affects current wolvers or is made into a separate beast altogether is up to OOO( in which I doubt will implement, I just like to brainstorm).

While I did a brief check via Google before hand, if there's a forum that's all too similar, please tell me and post a link to there here, I'm still new to these forums.

1st consists of divisions between the ordinary wolvers by job, as well as additions to the alpha wolvers.

Hunters These will have significantly less HP and much more vulnerability to flinching, but far more reaction and movement speed.

The thing that previously intrigued me with the wolvers when I 1st got in T3 was their ability to teleport. This type of wolver resembles the wolvers today the most in both appearance and role. These,most likely,will be the 1st types you'll see. This type will be untouchable until just before it actually executes its attack a period that lasts,at most, a second. The untouchability will be expressed through its teleporting ability; all attacks, regardless of facing, will miss if not done at this period or the period that comes right after a successful hit. If it gets hit, it'll go to a flinching animation much like the one now in which all hits performed will land until the wolver hits the ground.These have the skill to move while preparing and execute an attack, w/ movement speed to constantly be at the side/behind targeted knights. However, multiple won't execute normal attacks at the same time on the same knight, despite them being able to prepare at same time on same knight (1 second delay each) attack preparation and execution is only very temporarily interrupted if attacked outside periods of vulnerability, and lengths, minus teleportation phase, will be overall the same.

These wolvers have the ability to switch out with a barrager if they're low on health.These calls can be unsuccessful if attacked, which doesn't hurt them, but stops the call. If the call is successful, a barrager will substitute them in battle, and they will rest recovering 10 hp/sec in normal, 25/sec in advanced, and 50/sec in elite. Once the substitute dies or the wolver has more health than it (atleast 20%), the wounded wolver will appear.Whenever a wolver of this type reaches half health, it can switch between knights randomly and is able to execute an attack on another knight even if it spent its preparation on another.

Barragers (name suggestions anybody?:() More HP,attack power,and attack speed but less reaction speed and teleport tendency

These can act out as substitutes for hunters(as stated above), but are mostly named for the Elite Mode Ability: Barrage. This ability is exactly like its name says, if a knight doesn't stop a hunter's attack, he/she/it will do a rapid call, summoning 2 barragers to rapidly attack the knight, quickly moving to a new spot around the knight with each strike.This will stop as soon as the knight hits the two barragers, each once.If the knight tries to hit the hunter, it'll evade it, doing a slide animation rather than a teleporting one.If there's not enough hunters, these'll come out to take their place. The dodging ability is nowhere near that of hunters, but is nonetheless present. During substitute phase they use teleportation only to reach opponents, and during the barraging phase they can't dodge actively at all.They're overall for more vulnerable to attacks than hunters.They can also occasionally gang up on a knight, performing a hit and run,if not substituting.

Defenders More HP, status resistance, movement speed, but more vulnerable to piercing damage

These guard the alpha wolver constantly unless chosen to "send orders" to other wolvers farther away. Whenever chosen to be messengers, they carry the same buffing abilities as the alphas can, but within a radius equal to the 2* atomizers, compared to alphas' 5* atomizer radius. Orders can be stuff like simply telling hunters and barragers to focus on hit and run, giving hunters a barrager-like capability on the technique whenever an area is already populated with monsters, or migration to other parts of the level when the enemy is suspected to be to strong.These can also function as scouts. These messages can be broken by simply attacking and doing enough damage before the call.The 1st hit will provoke the wolver, and if enough damage is done, the defender will teleport back w/o telling the message.The alpha can send another if that happens, but not after a delay.
Elite Mode Ability:Ravage Think of this as an angry phase. This occurs when its attacked when its trying to deliver a message or if its still alive and someone attacks the alpha or there's a very few amount of defenders left.The wolver will go in rapid straight charges around the area aiming for the knights that provoked it, with its attacks even able to hit other wolvers, able to hit hunters regardless.It can teleport, leaving a status haze of the status it represents and the status Bleed, which renders knights unable to charge or perform a sprite ability as well as dash and shield bash, where it teleported and where it teleported to.After the phase is over there's a stun phase in which it can't teleport.

Diplomats More reaction speed, less flinch tendency and stun immunity,but less HP and direct attack tendency

These wolvers act as negotiators between groups of monster, essentially covering intergroup interactions (including other monster types) to form alliances to help combat their enemies. These prevent disputes by keeping alphas' original intent in mind while finding ways to come to an agreement. These can also function as scouts and can be substituted for barragers. Their combat abilities are mostly team-support orientated, but out of all the wolvers these have the 2nd best dodge ability, tied with the alpha himself. These wolvers ,however, are least likely to bite or chase,which in theory actually makes them harder to kill.Keep in mind that these don't have an unique invulnerability period like the hunters, so in a sense they may be well behind those still.

Their combat abilities are represented by plants and/or their parts.
Sakura-teleports, bringing an enemy(up to 3 in elite) with them.Keep in mind enemies can't substitute or be substituted if they're not fully allied w/ group and a wolver. Only barragers can substitute.This can't be used on an enemy that's stationary, and keep in mind some enemies that don't want to ally or move out of original formations (like Trojans) can't be moved either. Allying is still relatively likely.
Autumn Leaves-A counter if a knight attacks it unsuccessfully by teleporting and coming from directly below (elite-when this happens there's an invulnerability period).Elite this can have spontaneous targeting as well like hunters, and an alternative attack can be performed;6 pine cones in separate directions each less damage than the bite, but each causes bleed.
4 Leaf Clovers {Elite Only}-spread randomly on ground at random distances(but not too far).Any(including knights) attack from a status weapon or status monster that hits it will cause it to adopt its status effect and will inflict on any knight Ex:burning clover.Lasts up to 10 seconds after status adoption.Disappears with the diplomat's death if adoption hasn't taken place.
Tall Crops-These are associated with buffing teammates.Can be destroyed by inflicting 500 damage on each(1000 on elite) or inflicting status effect fire on it.Inflicting fire on a diplomat will prevent them from using these abilities.Wheat-heals enemies for 10%(20% adv.,30% elite) of max HP and 'prevents' next flinching period.Healling will only work if enemy is under 60% HP.Barley-Random buff from UV wolver or alpha granted until death.Sugarcane-Grants temporary status and flinch immunity.Each Gremlin can be affected by up to 3 tall crops,Beasts and fiends up to 2, but Undead,Constructs,and Slimes can't get any.

Average Full Militia Count
As coined by Blandaxt in the comments below, a group lead by an alpha with these 4 classes present in close ratio with averages is considered a full militia.Keep in mind that militias that are close or exceed average amounts{{Large}} are mostly present in beast and wolver based levels.Also a militia may be randomly incomplete and small or even large but randomly informal, perhaps having too many diplomats or almost entirely consisting of hunters.
Hunter:10
Barragers:10
Defenders:8
Diplomats:4
Alphas:1

UV Wolvers
2nd consists of wolvers of unique attributes, and ones that may suffer from refuge or exile.Honestly, I know there's levels with few wolvers,but rather than giving them a huge amounts of comrades, I'd rather them possibly be either incomplete militias with perhaps UV wolvers or just UV wolvers.

UV wolvers, as well as their unique attributes, appear randomly within militias, or as lone wolvers. A full militia in one level may have none, but next time you do that level that particular militia may have,let's say,2.Same thing for with refugees/exiles that have been accepted into a group.These are most identifiable when the wolver has a different status representation than new-found comrades, or when a wolver runs away when alpha has fallen, with low/no amounts of fighters left.Keep note that some militias may have an exile/refugee at the start.A flat 1% chance is there for knights to possibly witness a wolver's banishment/arguing with alpha from a full militia if the the knights move VERY quickly without attacking the alpha or a diplomat.10% chance for a full militia's wolver to be UV in normal,15% in adv.,20% in elite.Rates go up if a militia is incomplete,informal, or on exiles and refugees.An UV can have up to 5 different UV's,and while in normal they do have symbols to represent this, adv. they have a chance to show only some UV's,in elite they always either show some,few, or none.
The following UV are possible for a wolver to obtain:
Fire Immunity
Shock Immunity
Stun Immunity
Curse Immunity
Sleep Immunity
Freeze Immunity
Poison Immunity
Elemental Invulnerabiliy
Resistance against Guns(Damage,and/or knockback and flinch):Med,High,Very High,Max
Resistance against Swords(Damage,and/or knockback and flinch):Med,High,Very High,Max
Resistance against Bombs(Damage,and/or knockback and flinch):Med,High,Very High,Max
Resistance against Sprite effects AND Damage:Med,High,Very High,Max
Resistant against Piercing:Med,High,Very High,Max
Resistant against Shadow:Med,High,Very High,Max
Knight Class-Defender AND Hunter
Squire Class-Hunter that can fulfill some Defender duties
Guard Class-Defender that can fulfill some Hunter duties
Lord Class-Barrager AND Diplomat
Cuirassier Class-Barrager that can fulfill some Diplomat duties
Warrior Class-Diplomat that can fulfill some Barrager duties
Paladin Class-Diplomat AND Defender
Ambassador Class-Diplomat that can fulfill some Defender duties
Sentry Class-Defender that can fulfill some Diplomat duties
Berserker Class-Hunter AND Barrager
Trickster Class-Hunter that can fulfill some Barrager duties
Brigand Class-Barrager that can fullfill some Hunter duties
Other Class combos,etc.(looking for names)
All negative class attributes that conflict when in classes directly above are overshadowed by positive,as attributes are just combined if above(For EX:A Beserker has the HP,Attack power and speed bonuses as an average barrager would have, yet has more reaction speed and movement speed an average hunter would have.The only negative attribute these would have is the flinching vulnerability.)
UV Classes are MUCH less unlikely the more formal and populated a militia is, yet MUCH more likely in lone and incomplete militias.
Aesthetics for UV classes are just mixed,Unless if its class like Lord,Knight,etc. where they look completely different.
If there's conflicting AI tactics, then wolvers can just choose how to go about the situation.
Max simply means that it does as much damage as a hypothetical elemental counterpart would.

So tell me what you think of think of this ability, If you think somethings wrong with it please tell me thanks :)

Sun, 10/26/2014 - 19:10
#1
Leafblader's picture
Leafblader
moo

Wolvers used to be able to track with their bites and where one of the most difficult monsters in the game.
Alpha wolvers could track with all three bites and were super difficult.
One thing I want is that wolvers get their tracking back on advanced and elite mode and alpha wolvers get their tracking back on elite mode. That way they could be made difficult again without too much effort.
I still support these ideas as well. I'm just saying that they were not always weak.

Sun, 10/26/2014 - 19:15
#2
Supnaplamqw's picture
Supnaplamqw
tracking

Was that in 2011 or 2010? I think I played those years as well, my hiatus might've been bigger, IDK I don't remember too much back pre break

Thu, 10/30/2014 - 12:18
#3
Blandaxt's picture
Blandaxt
I like your ideas..

i like the way you posted your ideas and some of your ideas in general. I am only wondering in the programming of the alpha Wolver. Will the it's programming be like a pattern and each number representing a form of that pattern. Such as 1 = normal, 2 = defense, 3 = attack (rage mode) and these patterns will alternate when met with conditions? such as 1 would be when the alpha orders hit and run tactics, and 2 would be when the hunters call in the barragers and defenders which emphasizes defense and 3 would be when the alpha goes in rage mode which is only included in elite difficulty. So i am only saying this cause each of these phases are a whole program in themselves that dictates how the wolvers should act once each of these conditions are met. I was just thinking that if things were presented as such, it would give readers such as the programmers of sk if there were considering this idea, it would complicate them too much, then again they probably have these things figured out.

Also, i was wondering sense one floor sometimes has 2 to 3 alpha wolvers, will each of these alpha wolvers have their own personal militia so to say (defenders, barragers, and hunters), or will they just be sub-alpha wolvers that follow to a commander alpha wolver?

Also i made a thread to buffing wolvers a while ago, i was wondering maybe you might want to add it or any of it to some of your ideas to buff wolvers. her's a link to the thread: http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/68424

Thu, 10/30/2014 - 18:59
#4
Supnaplamqw's picture
Supnaplamqw
@Blandaxt I don't no much about programming,but...

I like both of your ideas, but I like occasional unpredictability as well. On the lone alpha wolvers, I was going to update this forum by posting a new class called diplomats to communicate/ally with other militias and even other monsters of other type, as well as new section called UV wolvers, including exiles/refugees not in a militia like those alphas,as well a smaller incomplete militias with wolvers capable of completing tasks from multiple jobs etc., but your mention of programmers got me thinking of limitations. Should I add that section?

In one of those cases, they may be just left with just simple buffs, or possibly UV wolvers

Thu, 10/30/2014 - 22:37
#5
Blandaxt's picture
Blandaxt
well..

you should mention all of your ideas that you have. I think the direct programming can be left to the devs sense they programmed SK and should know all of its programming parameters. I only tried to make sense of your idea in a programming layout just in case the people discussing it and possibly the devs could see a possible way for them to implement it. Sense most programs can be created in many ways, getting the general idea out is good then figuring out how it can be done or if it has to be changed later can be discussed later.

Sat, 11/01/2014 - 15:22
#6
Supnaplamqw's picture
Supnaplamqw
Update 11/1/14

Added Diplomat Class
Added next section of forum:UV wolvers

Sat, 11/01/2014 - 15:23
#7
Supnaplamqw's picture
Supnaplamqw
Crap quadruple post

.

Sat, 11/01/2014 - 15:23
#8
Supnaplamqw's picture
Supnaplamqw
Crap quadruple post

.

Sat, 11/01/2014 - 15:23
#9
Supnaplamqw's picture
Supnaplamqw
Crap quadruple post

.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 18:21
#10
Supnaplamqw's picture
Supnaplamqw
Crap quadruple post

.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 20:41
#11
Blandaxt's picture
Blandaxt
another response

"Hunters: The untouchability will be expressed through its teleporting ability; all attacks, regardless of facing, will miss if not done at this period or the period that comes right after a successful hit. "

- I agree with everything on this idea but this sentence. I feel we should be able to hurt these wolvers while they are under the stun mist status even if we did not attack them when they are about to attack us (their vulnerable period). This way we can still attack these wolvers and expect our efforts to bear fruit. We can just make it that right after they receive an attack; they would not flinch and would continue their dodging/attacking tactic or teleport away.

"Barragers:"

Why not give them a new attack to complement their tough physique? Something like a tail whip attack. The fur at the tail of these doggies/wolfies is pointy as a blade and can be used to smack knights that try to attack them from the rear with melee. This attack can also launch short range spikes like the snarble barb sword, but a little less range. We can also make it that normal attack using guns will be nullified if gunners attack from the rear. Only charge attacks using guns from the rear will work, but normal attacks and charge attacks from the front will also work with guns. Melee attacks work all around. When stun, all forms of attacks work similar to the snarby boss.

"Defenders: Élite Mode Ability: Ravage Think of this as an angry phase" and "status Bleed"

I like both of those ideas, but I think the bleed status should be able to be invoked when it unleashes its bite attacks in its ravage mode. Also the mist haze ability should be left in its trail as it is doing that rapid furry of bites.

I also think it should be highly resistant to all statuses where each status only last 3 seconds regardless besides the curse status.

"Diplomats: Their combat abilities are represented by plants and/or their parts."

I like how you tried to give these wolvers abilities to be able to match up with any monster on the field it is allied with.

Why not make diplomats not take on any sort of agro? This way, they are free to attack whoever they want, and retreat when its health has reached a certain amount.

"Sakura-teleports"

Is this for transporting enemies?

"Autumn Leaves"

Is the invulnerability period only on elite?

So it attacks the moment we miss an attack? Does that count for bomb attacks too?

"4 Leaf Clovers {Elite Only}"

I feel, you should just make it that it can adapt to any status (besides curse) at any time giving it a varied piercing attacks.

"Tall Crops"&"Barley"&"Sugarcane"

Are these stationary buffs that buff monsters that come near?

If they are, then it's is hard for me seeing these abilities fitting wolvers no matter how much i twist the lore because wolvers do not focus on smarts much then they focus on their brawn.

I do like how you are trying to make a healing beast monster though. Why not invent a whole new beast monster that can emit these buffs, instead of having plants unleash the buffs?

I think plants should be their own monster family.

"UV Wolvers"

After reading that part, i was thinking why not instead give the wolvers a chance to evolve and tranform into a mini boss wolver?

Basically, transforming one wolver monster into a whole new monster that is a mini-boss of some kind for the beast. This way, all of those positives you mention that the wolver would get represented in this mini-boss wolver.

By creating this whole new monster, we could find a way to balance it out and see how powerful we can make this wolver without making it a boss.
Like this: http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/72669

 14B) Fire Beast Mini-Boss:
Vog
Vog cub

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