Spiral Knights - Regarding the interesting new Alchemy Paths of gunner gear

Regarding the interesting new Alchemy Paths of gunner gear

65 replies [Last post]

Wed, 12/17/2014 - 11:16

#51

Skepticraven

↓

Oh, a trick to force the updated version is to click edit the page, then preview. It all depends on when the page calls the templates. It seems to cache the templates for the page.

I don't save my edits on the page because I'm lazy and don't want to clutter the "recent changes" pages.

Anyways.

I fully agree with your formatting changes. I'll need more time to set up all of the little Ifs... maybe 1-2 days and itl be good to check out. I'll make another post here when its ready.

Wed, 12/17/2014 - 14:45

#52

Bopp

done, but more tweaking is desirable

I did it by throwing in an #ifeq branch for the icon size. See the Shade branch of the table; I left the rest untouched. The 5-star cells are now truly one line, so we're much closer to having a table of reasonable vertical length.

The formatting is not beautiful in the 3- and 4-star cells. Maybe something could be done with the alignment or wrapping of the text around the icon?

Edit: Now the whole table is running on template2, the table is 100% wide, and the icon floats left in multi-row minSize cells. The Shade branch of the table looks great, in my opinion. The 3- and 4-star cells in the other branches still need improvement, because their item names are longer. But the table is about 1.3 screens long on my laptop --- not bad.

Wed, 12/17/2014 - 15:05

#53

Bopp

whole thing looks good now, except

In case anyone has forgotten what I'm talking about, it's this Padded Cap table.

Skepticraven, there seem to be extraneous spaces or line breaks or something, just before the first row of the table and just after the last row. I don't know how to fix it. Also, the Brandish table has some extraneous markup at the very end, that I'm too scared to touch.

In the Padded Cap table, the multi-row minSize cells now float their images right. The table is of reasonable vertical size and fairly pretty. It could always be tweaked more, but in my opinion it's ready for use on the wiki. The only complaint I have is that the placement of icons relative to names is so inconsistent now:
* In 0-, 1-, and 2-star cells, icons appear below names.
* In 3- and 4-star cells, icons appear right of names.
* In 5-star cells, icons appear left of names.

Wed, 12/17/2014 - 16:22

#54

Skepticraven

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That's involved with some tidying up I have to do. I am well aware of both.

One is the remains of editing the template output, the other is editing things outside of the alchemy header [a blank row with padding].
Both will not appear in the final version.

I'll have time to clean up, tweak around, and try to get things to look good tomorrow.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 15:43

#55

Skepticraven

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Float left added unwanted margains within the image call.

I added a span to float it left without margains and that fixed it.
I've also updated it to fit in a 800px wide table, removed the hidden line at the top, and scaled images for 2 column [because 40px would be too large], and cleaned up unused aspects of the template.

I believe this is now ready for final scrutiny.
Asking for final feedback before implementing the new template.
Two test alch trees can be viewable here.
Nitpick everything.

If everything looks good, I'll set up documentation and usage tips on the template and slowly get around to doing all the alch tree pages.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 19:24

#56

Dracora-Speaking

@Skeptic

Excellent work. My two nitpicks would be to put a space between the icons and the name in the padded cap table, but I know that that sort of thing can completely wreck things sometimes. It's just a general wiki format thing. The other nitpick is to keep the names in the same location no matter the size or type of the table, and I'd be in favor of to the right of the icon, because almost every list in the entire wiki has that :D (though this is clearly a twee, not a list :P). I wonder how badly that will affect the width...

The plug-n-chug looks intuitive to me. I think that a new editor looking at the coding would be able to figure it out within a few minutes, for sure within a half hour.

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 20:04

#57

Bopp

good, but

The 3- and 4-star columns look better than how I left them. Good.

I think that the icons have to be left or right of the text in the 3-, 4-, and 5-star columns, but have to be above or below the text in the 0-, 1-, and 2-star columns. Otherwise our horizontal room problem will get much worse. So we can't be perfectly consistent. And I think that left is better than right, for lining things up neatly.

In the 0-, 1-, and 2-star columns, I recommend putting the icon above the text. Then it comes "before" the text, just as in the 3-, 4-, and 5-star columns.

I'm seeing an issue with the longest names. In 3-star, the name "Woven Snakebite Pathfinder Helm" is spilling onto three lines. In 5-star, the name "Sacred Snakebite Pathfinder Helm" is spilling onto two lines. I don't care about the former, but the latter looks ugly, and they might be related.

This problem was mitigated somewhat by having the table be 100% wide. But you don't like that because people use super-wide web browser windows or something? You're worried about the table being too wide?

Thu, 12/18/2014 - 20:43

#58

Skepticraven

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@Dracora-Speaking
#1 I'll try and figure something out for that. It seems that the left align removed the space between them. I'll have to figure out how to set it up to not ignore the space. [Shouldnt take too long.]

#2 Easy fix. Just can use the "minSize" toggle for all the elements and adjust the width as needed. This cosmetic change will have no impact on the brandish tree. [And Bopp has an opinion on this one too.]

@Bopp
#1 In its current state, it would change the brandish to make this change as well.

#2 Very interesting... I dont see it like that [since I set up 800px to fit everything almost exactly without having too much blank space on the side]. Maybe I should be a bit more generous with the spacing. I try and avoid using %s for things mostly because of the people whom dont use super-wide browsers.

I've done Dracora's #1, Bopp's #1+2. Dracora's #2 is still up for dispute, and I'm copy pasting the table to have a comparison view of Bopp's #2 [I still prefer less whitespace, so tacked on another 100px width so hopefully on multiple browsers there is no wrapping].

At some point tomorrow, I'll set up a nice documentation page when you visit the template for usage.

Fri, 12/19/2014 - 07:24

#59

Bopp

the two issues

In the latest version, three 5-star names spill onto two lines for me: Sacred Snakebite Pathfinder Helm, Sacred Snakebite Guerrilla Helm, and Sacred Snakebite Sentinel Helm.

For people with web browser windows narrower than 800 pixels, I think that 100% is better than 800px. It's uglier, but it at least lets them get all of the information on their screen, without the need for horizontal scrolling.

For people with windows wider than 800 pixels, 100% is better. It lets them get all of the 5-stars on one line each, if our default formatting hasn't already accomplished that (see my first comment above).

Regarding the icon placement issue, I agree with Dracora that consistency would be nice. I just don't see how it's possible. I'm willing to settle for icon-above in the first three columns and icon-left in the last three columns.

Fri, 12/19/2014 - 07:53

#60

Dracora-Speaking

@Recent Version

Really liking it. In my opinion (opposite of bopp's), it's best to lock that size in (for everything) and force horizontal scrolling. Otherwise browsers might do weird gorgo burps like this - this one's cause I have a lot of cells locked, but not the name column. Hilarious but not good. Having something solid you can just swipe to the side (or click and scroll, or even push your scrollwheel horizontally if your mouse is like that) is more functional than the potential squishing. I'd say lock the width to the longest known name/string of names and have it at that - what else can we do in the face of these ridiculously long names? I imagine the future has more in store.

Ah, if only SK had a small identity character length restriction. There's a reason games like pokemon have these...That username gets plugged in all over the place on a very tiny screen. SK seems locked into a size, I imagine they have some sort of character limit, I just wish it were fewer.

Fri, 12/19/2014 - 08:20

#61

Skepticraven

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If only I knew enough CSS... I could resolve this problem by forcing restrictions on a number of lines [dependent upon # of rows the cell takes up] and have it expand as needed. Would this be a good compromise?

Fri, 12/19/2014 - 08:22

#62

Dracora-Speaking

@Skepticraven

Test it out - if it works, yes. I think I know what you're saying, and yes, I think it would work. If you set it up right, the option to control the width of individual cells per page would be there...but only for editors who really look at the template documentation (so it's a default no field). We wouldn't want to advertise that liberty to standardized pages, just pages that have silly things like the Padded Cap.

Fri, 12/19/2014 - 15:00

#63

Skepticraven

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Got it working.

Since I couldnt find a function that worked to count the string length... I just used a width that would attempt to wrap the longest names the best.
I've set up as good of an explanation page as I could with the template...

And I've moved it to Template:Alchemy_tree [I left Template:Alchemy_path there until all the old stuff is converted over].
I've also replaced the templates for padded stuff only so far.

I'm probably going to get around to replacing all the other trees at some other point.

Tue, 01/06/2015 - 12:00

#64

Skepticraven

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Lots of pages to change.

You can check my progress over on the remaining usages of the previous template: Here.

There's around 550 or so left [of course the tree pages will reduce these a ton] at the time of this post.

Tue, 01/06/2015 - 18:05

#65

Bopp

looking good

My watchlist is lighting up like a Christmas tree.

The alchemy trees look great, of course.

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Regarding the interesting new Alchemy Paths of gunner gear