I need a shadow gun and I can't choose between these two ! I will mostly (90% of the time) use them against the enemis they are powerful against (Gremlin and Slime). The winter grave charge can hit the same enemy (or multiple one) mutple time wich really make me want it and the Biohazrd just a bomb as a gun. I play both solo and in team an can't really get both. Could someone expose the pros and cons of each and maybe make a recommendation?
Winter Grave or Biohazrd?
Fri, 03/06/2015 - 19:05
Fri, 03/06/2015 - 19:23
#2
Errrrr....
So I'll go with the Winter grave. I had bit more liking for it but now I'm pretty sure.
Umbra Drive: Don't like the mechanic.
Phantamos: Already will use Arcana and I want my 3 guns to work differently.
Grimm repeater: I pondered it a lot but in the end I prefered Winter Grave and Biohazard.
Fri, 03/06/2015 - 19:46
#3
neither is great?
I haven't used the Catalyzer guns much since the gunner update. The majority of commenters on the forums say that they've gotten worse. Make of that what you will.
I have used Winter Grave. Like on Glacius, the freeze disrupts the charge attack, causing this gun to do much less damage than the non-freeze variants (Iron Slug and Callahan). I'm not a fan.
Fri, 03/06/2015 - 20:15
#4
Grim Repeater
I can vouch for this: it does exceptionally well as a weapon. It's great against Jellies as they are pretty straight-forward (just watch your surroundings before firing). It's also great with Gremlins mainly because it does a great job at cleaning up Constructs, which are more often than not found with their makers. This gun makes both the levels and bosses of both Royal Jelly Palace and Roarmulous Twins a breeze, and the charged shot can near instantly kill Gun Pups, minor constructs and anything vulnerable to it, while seriously damaging a lumber and flinching it, too. The normal shots do just as well at forcibly despawning anything you come across.
If the Autogun line isn't your thing, that's fine, but I would recommend taking this gun into serious consideration all the same.
Fri, 03/06/2015 - 21:01
#5
if we're allowed to talk about any of them
Are we not just talking about Winter Grave vs. Biohazard? Are we talking about all of the shadow guns? If so, then I recommend Umbra or Grim. But my preferred play style these days is "unleash big charge attack that kills target instantly".
Fri, 03/06/2015 - 22:27
#6
↓
My analysis of the catalyzer lines.
They were actually pretty nice crowd control before they updated the mechanics.
Now they arent good at much.
I magnus swapped before the winter grave was introduced. Now I chargespam and swift swap them. As Bopp says, using ice to your advantage can be difficult, but I find it works in my favor. There are strategies to ensure the charge hits 4+ times vs medium size monsters or 5+ times on large pierce-able monsters. Takes a lot of practice, but makes it a very powerful gun. [Iron slug/Callahan only can ensure 3 hits without a wall, while the ice of a winter grave creates a "wall" anywhere for monsters that can be frozen.]
Also, an interesting fact is that point-blank shots against trojan backs hit 4 times.
Autoguns arent really my style. Theyre great at dishing out extreme damage at the expense of being immobile for a short time.
Sat, 03/07/2015 - 02:16
#7
And the ice of Winter Grave
And the ice of Winter Grave makes it good for a combo with a Crusher or Graviton, after damaging the group of enemies in the vortex it holds them for the last explosion. Handy for shock levels where EV can't hold enemies with shock.
Sat, 03/07/2015 - 06:04
#8
Skepticraven
Your experience disagrees with mine. I can get Callahan to inflict enormous damage, and Winter Grave not so much. Can you elaborate on how to arrange the charge shots --- in particular, more about the range? I find that point-blank charge shots don't land as many hits as more distant charge shots (counterintuitively).
Sat, 03/07/2015 - 07:57
#9
↓
@Bopp
When the projectile "ends", there is one more damage applied.
Point blank does significantly more damage to non-piercable monsters such as trojans. This is due to the projectile attempting to move and exploding for 4 hits [I found this out while doing damage tests on D4 mission "Blade of the Fallen" using my iron slug to 1-hit trojans solo on elite].
Distance shots do more damage to all other monsters, with good aim.
Immobile monsters such as turrets or monsters stuck against a wall can get hit 4+ times at the end of a shot [at maximum distance]. Ice assists in making monster immobile.
Mid-range ensures 3 hits if the monster is facing you and the attack is lined up well.
Sat, 03/07/2015 - 08:07
#10
okay
I agree that extra damage happens when the projectile ends.
My experience so far has been a lot of frozen slimes, gremlins, and constructs (Winter Grave) and a lot of dead beasts, fiends, and undead (Callahan). The disparity was so bad that I was using Callahan on gremlins, until I just gave up on Winter Grave.
I will try again, taking your comments into account. Thanks.
Sat, 03/07/2015 - 11:07
#11
If the enemies are facing you and you can do enough to just KO them using the projectile and its knockback then iron slug/callahan are going to be better.
If the enemies aren't facing you and you can pull off a freeze via the one hit you're going to get in, then that's much more beneficial because it allows for you to line up the next shot.
Generally, slug/callahan are better for straight up DPS as you can maneuver enemies into it and it does kill the heck out of stuff but using winter grave is still pretty awesome, especially to support your team by weakening+freezing monsters.
Sun, 03/08/2015 - 19:35
#12
Errrrr....
I've got the thundrus (3 star winter grave) and. I mean. Wow. This gun is incredibly fun to use and is extremely powerful (so powerful I feel bad for using it). I learned from experience too that point blank shot are not the best.
Sun, 03/08/2015 - 21:30
#13
↓
@Popoixd
When I mentioned point blank shots - I stated that shots like those were only advantageous to non-pierce-able monsters. These only include trojans and some bosses currently. For a winter grave, this would be useful for certain battlepods such as the ones in OCH and not much else.
Mon, 03/09/2015 - 10:46
#14
.....
Who said to get just one?
Mon, 03/09/2015 - 12:29
#15
I'd say it. You should only get one to start with- getting slug AND callahan AND winter grave would be wasteful, as they all do about the same thing. A much better decision would be to branch out before investing in having all three as options. Eventually you should aim to get all three if you enjoy using them. The bulk of our discussions revolve around getting a foothold on the game, since that's where newer (and not so newer) players looking to build an arsenal are. Once your established and have more resources crafting something isn't such a big deal and you can just make whatever you want.
Mon, 03/09/2015 - 12:38
#16
@ Fehzor
Then the Iron Slug would be the obvious choice since it offers maximum usability and amazing power to boot.
Mon, 03/09/2015 - 14:40
#17
about frost and tortoguns
I am currently using the 4 star version of wintergrave, heat 10.
My experience, is that it prooves very powerful vs lumbers since it hits 2-3 hits and I freeze these lumbers very often. Once a Lumber is frozen, he remains immobile even if I launch further charges into him - he simply recives the damage and gets refrozen with a *very* good chance and he is usually not even able to turn around.
My personal experience vs gremlins.... well I can think about these thwackers and menders as the biggest problem. To other gremlins, my 4 star gun can kill most of them in 1 shot.
Thwackers however will too often shield and mender's shields are hard to break with this weapon; which becomes a problem if fighting a large group of gremlins (deconstruction zones: luring around a few areas or getting lured by other team members).
I can personally recommend here my 4 star tortogun (Nether Cannon) vs thwackers, menders and all others except the engineers: piercing from the ground, monsters will not trigger their shields, chance to kill a mender through a shield, chance to instant kill most monsters if enough shard explasions hit the target and decent blocking ability while yourselfe is at a far distance, and I would say it is the gun that allows the farest distance to your enemies which makes it extremely safe on the other side.
Mon, 03/09/2015 - 16:34
#18
against gremlins
If you want to kill an entire crowd of gremlins, just draw their aggro, so that they're facing you, and then fire a Callahan or Iron Slug charge shot into them.
Sadly, I can't say the same for Winter Grave, despite its damage type.
Mon, 03/09/2015 - 20:13
#19
If choosing between the two
Id say Winter Grave, The magnus lines have become so much better post update and it's a solid gun overall. Biohazard got nerf'd IMO, trade off between easy set up and damage. It's much trickier to use, even more so now, but is very good for spreading poison when needed. If you want a more solid gun with good DPS I'd say Winter Grave, if you want good and easy to handle crowd control I'd still say Winter's Grave, If you want a gun thats tricky but a lot of fun I'd Say Biohazard (Just dont expect a lot of crowd damage since It's been changed).
Tue, 03/10/2015 - 09:21
#20
@Jenova: I never had any
@Jenova: I never had any trouble with Thwackers, the general idea is to get them close to you and when they line up their hammer attack to mash you, you then shoot right in front of them. If they get hit by the shot 3 times, it's a one-hit kill. If not, then follow up with a regular attack to finish them off. or charge another shot, if that's more your thing.
A fun thing I've noticed about the charge attacks of Magnuses is that when their charge hits a target, it emits a pretty big AoE. So if you were to say, shoot 2 Slags who are behind a Trojan, and then have the slags and the Magnus charge smash into the Trojan, you can trigger up to 3 hits on the Trojan, despite being an immovable target.
This is also pretty noticeable on monsters who crowd together such as Thwackers and Jellies.
Also, never shoot an Oiler/quiksilver/toxigel at point blank with a Winter Grave or Iron Slug. It WILL miss.
Winter Grave. Powerful, cathartic, effective, albeit it takes a bit of getting used to.
Biohazard is very fun but not practical. My favorite run of all time was a 4-man Catalyzer team vs the RJP. It can be so satisfying to detonate a dozen charges, causing the entire screen to shake so violently it looks as if you just blacked out for a moment. However, it is so easy for teammates to disrupt this by killing the guy with the most charges on him. Also, you need to be able to reliably hit the same target with some of the slowest projectiles of the game, which can be nearly impossible when trying to deal with a clump of jellies chasing after you or Gremlins dodging wildly about. Don't even try Catalyzers in compounds to deal with Glop Drops.
Why are you not considering the Umbra Driver and the Grim Repeater btw?
EDIT* Or the Phantamos while I'm at it.