the game's bandwidth doesnt cost 1 million dollars/year.

it was only an example to show that only a very little part of the income is used to maintain the servers
the F2Ps could receive some aid without damaging the survivability of the game

How do you know that?

For all you know OOO could be going bankrupt because it is loosing so much money on this game.

If you only can play 1 hour after waiting 22 hours?
~Has been gone over with you before, most F2P game restrict either areas you can do or items you can obtain, SK just restricts how long you can play.

What is the point of not gaining profit by the free way?
~*looks at all the people in full 5* who have NEVER bought CE with real money* ... next question.

What is the point of playing hours and hours just to upgrade your armour?
~You mean like every other MMO out there, right? Ask a level 80 WoW player how long it took them to get their uber armor.

What is the point of wasting so much elecktricity(electricity)?
~"Waste" is a matter of opinion. For say, a sports freak, SK would likely feel like a large waste. On the other hand, people like me who don't care about sports often view Sunday football as a waste. But it's all opinion and has no meaning to anybody else.

What is the point being so harsh on F2Pers ? Three rings you shoulda then released it P2P failing company.
~I bought about $5 worth of CE originally, it is long gone now. Any I have now is earned via using my ME, finding mats to sell, and buying and selling recipes. I'll admit the gap between Tier 2 and Tier 3 is larger now, but that's about it. I don't think the game was ever meant to be played all day. So having restricted play time isn't all that big a deal.

Why not taking action or limiting the CE prices for both teams at a fair price.
~CE prices are not regulated by OOO, they're regulated by the players. If a cap was put on the amount you could trade CE for through the market only one thing would happen... it wouldn't get used and people would then sell it through the trade channel. I was not around in beta but from what I hear (which could be incorrect, I do not have any hard data) 100 CE was 20k at certain points. Makes 7k look downright cheap.

Also, in most games where you can exchange the cash shop currency with the regular in game currency the price is much higher. I know of one where unless you were a high end player (which means you needed to have the cash shop currency to reach high end to even begin with) it would take you a week to gather the gold to exchange for 100 of the cash shop money... and the items in the shop costed from 500 to the thousands.

Why not caring about your free players.
~Pure speculation, next!

I hate when people only live for money.
If that is the reason you live one day you will die.
And guess what those money won't come with you to Heaven or Hell.
~Welcome to the real world hun, money is what moves everything. You want to play the game? Well, if OOO doesn't get some scratch then the game won't stay around, as it doesn't turn a profit. They're a business first, and if something is losing you money then you cut it. Also have to argue the "If that is the reason you live one day you will die." part. Unless you're immortal (which you're not) we will all die one day, so really all that matters is how much you enjoyed your life. No, you can't take your money with you when you die... you can leave it to your children though as an inheritance. And the only talk on religion I'm dropping in the forums, non-Christians don't fear the Heaven or Hell thing... Blessed Be.

~Gwen

I am far from complaining about ce prices but I do believe the current situation seems flawed. Most f2p games allow you to play as much as you want and you pay for bonus features - SK requires you to pay for both. 1 hour per day seems much too restrictive for most people and if the aim is to make people pay more than just make it subscription-based. They could at least lower the elevator costs.

Then again, it is OOO that has all the statistics and who make the decisions - if the current setup results in enough paying customers to sustain a healthy population, then more power to them. But so far it looks like it is heading to standard pay (a lot) to play. It is okay, but then please do not mislabel the game.

If you only can play 1 hour after waiting 22 hours ?
^It allows you to have a life and do something else.

What is the point of not gaining profit by the free way ?

So you can spend more time having fun in-real-life

What is the point of playing hours and hours just to upgrade your armour ?

Well if their is no point for this why does it matter?

What is the point of wasting so much elecktricity ?

Im confused....

What is the point being so harsh on F2Pers ? Three rings you shoulda then released it P2P failing company.

Didnt you quit why quit and still use the forums? Why complain about a game you like so much since clearly you are back here again just to talk about this amazing game.

Why not taking action or limiting the CE prices for both teams at a fair price.

Define what is fair first I think 8.5k Crowns for 100 ce is fair, and you think 1 crown for 100ce is fair see the difference? Why cant YSL sell me their dam belt for 50 bucks instead of 300 dollars....Questions I do not have the answer to most likely you do.

Why not caring about your free players.

They care about free players you may just be to blind to see it

I hate when people only live for money.
If that is the reason you live one day you will die.
ANd guess what those money won't come with you to Heaven or Hell.

^In that case can I have all your money? Yup, my money will not come with me in heaven or hell it will just join me in RAWR <--- Its in between Heaven and hell only the cool kids know about it.

Oh, wanted to point out why not spend 10 bucks and get some ce for yourself I mean that money is not going to join you in heaven or hell might as well spend it to buy some Ce.

"What is the point of F2P?" I enjoy the game, and I get plenty out of it just playing for free.

"If the OP is at all representative of the F2P'ers, it's a pretty good indication as to why this game's population is declining at such a rapid rate."

/shrug

I'm an F2P-er, built my 5* set after the 800 CE change. Haven't spent a dime on this game. Considered it a few times, decided to at least get a full loadout of 5* weapons and destroy Vanaduke first.

I am totally okay with the game as it is. If I am at all representative of the F2P-ers, then maybe the game will be alright, after all?

Many F2Ps lock premium content to non-payers. Instead, Spiral Knights allows all players to access all content, if they have the Energy for it. And it is not necessary for a F2Per to ever open their real life wallet for CE, if they are efficient enough with their Mist to save up crowns toward CE. Someone does have to open their wallet to add CE into the game's economy, but it doesn't have to be the F2P-er. Hell, I've seen a greater percentage of Spiral Knights' content than I ever did Adventure Quest, even after I won a Guardianship in the latter game.

The longest tier is Tier 3, which is nine floors. That means you can go through it from start to finish with a single tank of Mist, plus have 10 left over for a revive. Just getting there will take longer if you need to buy CE from other players with crowns. It is not at all impossible; I've done it. And I'm not even hardcore, I only play a few hours in the evenings. Took me a month. Which, coincidentally, is the time increment in which you can buy subscriptions to pay-to-play games like World of Warcraft. Oh look, I reached endgame content in both games in the same time period! What a coincidence.

I'd just like to say that personally, I love this game and am a huge fan of what y'all are doing. Is the game perfect? No. What game is? But it is still a work in progress; progress that I am enjoying being part of. Keep up the good work OOO's!

I spent quite a few on SK and I can only play what, 1h a day? (crafted a bunch of equips for me, used to run on CE when it was bellow 5k, but not anymore)

I spent the same amount in Steam sales for games like Bad Company 2 and Guild Wars trilogy, both allow me to play all day if I want.

Spiral Knights can be an "expensive" game.

Gigafreak - I got my estimates by checking each gate's population at several times and adding all of the players up. I didn't count the people outside of the terminals because they're, for the most part, not actively making use of their CE.

Gigafreak - You're missing the point of this thread. I'm not discounting those outside the terminals as players, but as active users of CE. Also, please note that I said "for the most part," making room for those who are crafting items.

kbe2k11 - Are you defending OOO or are you chastising it? The game does advertise itself as free to play, without any distinctions in the label.

kbe2k11 - I don't like to assume, which is why I ask. You're free to take no side at all. However, that doesn't seem to be very productive.

What's the point of posting two topics about it?

I keep reading that OOO limits how much you can play, this is wrong; i can log into their servers 24/7 without paying a dime; try to log into your wow account after your time expires...

Another thread? I said this already, I enjoy moderation. I will not waste anymore time posting on Zirkir threads. Good day to you sir.
"I hate it when people live only for money"
I hate it when people make two threads ranting about the same thing to waste people's time.

I was trying to find where it says 'free to play' ended up watching the intro video on the website, only at the very end does it say 'play for free now' which, to me, doesn't imply the game is totally free.
Also, noticed the elevator fee was 5 energy, now that would be nice...

Rwar - You say that you did your research. However, I remain skeptical because all you seem to have found from it is the aspect of micro-transactions, a concept that has long since become implicit in the label of F2P. Also, I don't really feel duped, so much as I resent the attitude towards F2P'ers who are justified in complaining about how restrictive and newbie unfriendly this game is, only to be met with the hubris that likely spouted the complaint.

This game is technically free to play - that is not a point I am disputing. However, by taking away one's ability to participate in the game's selling point when your energy runs out and having no other means to acquire it but to pay real money, wait nearly a day for the tank to refill, or around two hours to enter into a single depth, how does adopting the F2P label not cause you to feel at least slightly deceived? What other game does what this one does?

The idea of free in the MMOG market doesn't denote merely that it costs nothing to play, but that there are no restrictions to playing. Micro-transactional benefits typically exist to facilitate gameplay or add to user customization. However, OOO decided to do something highly unprecedented by initially limiting play time. If one is not willing to wait, something a player of a F2P game should not have to do in the first place, then putting money into this game is practically compulsory.

I'm unsure of what you mean to suggest when you say "... but it is still indicative of your experience of playing in this mulit [sic], massive, online, roll[sic]-playing game," but I have gotten pretty far in this game, in addition to having paid a bit. I don't regret having done so, but I do recall being fed up with waiting out the inordinate amount of time for mist energy to recharge.

While I'm sure you're not alone with the way that you feel, I am confident that most of the newest players will echo my sentiments. Does that make me right? Not necessarily. We'll see how this game plays out, in time.

Dirt - Dofus is and had always intended to be a pay to play game, so I am not sure what your purpose is by bringing it into issue.

Dirt - Why would a P2P game advertise itself as F2P? They did not require payment subscriptions during beta because it was still in its noncommercial (i.e. not yet fit for the consumer market) revision.

The initial town and surrounding areas were free to play and explore and that's how I remember it being advertized once it reached an actual release. I played both during and after the release to a point, up until it required me to pay to go farther. Granted it's been years since then and I'm not sure how it's been handled since then.

Which comes back to my point. The game didn't allow you to go any farther. Whether it was advertized as P2P or F2P at that point doesn't matter. Spiral Knights will allow you to achieve end game materials without ever paying out for it.

I play games to have fun, others have fun by paying money to play, I have fun playing the game. I don't care if people that are paying money can reach the end of the game faster than me, I want to spend as much time I can having fun.

So far I haven't had to wait too long to keep playing since I understand how to handle my crowns and energy.

I'm not sure why such a poorly thought out thread is getting such a big response, but I find myself responding as well so I should probably ask myself that question...