Personally, I love Three Rings Design. So maybe I am a little biased, but complaining that a game is not 100% free does not seem valid in my opinion. They have to be able to make money from the games they design. The $20 dollar starter pack they offer is a great value and pretty much has you set for the rest of the game.

JTH023 - I doubt there are many who aren't aware that OOO is a business, first and foremost - thus, everything outside of generating a profit becomes secondary to the bottom line. I don't fault them for that. If OOO is satisfied enough with their projections that alienating a few newbies is fine, then so be it.

Before I start, I should say that I am a free-to-play customer, mostly. Yes, I have paid for energy. I liked the game enough that I decided that OOO deserved some of my cash. I haven't bought any since the infamous update that jacked up all the crafting costs, but that's largely because I'm sticking to a budget. I still like the game, and it's entirely likely that I'll buy more energy in future. In the meantime I'm getting T3 access by running the clockworks purely on Mist Energy, and purchasing the necessary CE on the market for Crowns.

Firstly, I need to point out that you only need 4* gear to open T3 content, so there's quite a bit of "content" left as far as gear upgrades go. You can also get into T2 quite a bit sooner than you seem to think, as 2* gear is available for very reasonable prices in the auction hall, well within the payout you get from running T1. Lucky you, I didn't have the AH when I was scraping together mats and recipes for my T2 clearance. T2 is also still profitable even with energy being 7k per 100CE. Jelly King is the quick fix, but if you have the time and a decent group, you can run a gate and cherry-pick the best levels by waiting at the elevator for the one you want to cycle in.

If there's anything wrong with the current system (apart from the rapidly rising price of CE, which is largely a product of diminished value of Crowns than anything else), it's the massive jump in the CE crafting cost between 2* and 3* equipment.

As for the "Ohnoez, I can't play for more than an hour a day! What a ripoff!" complaints: Well, what did you expect from a F2P game? OOO needs to make money, like any other company or service provider. They have bills to pay too, and if they don't get paid, they can't continue to provide you with their free game. They allow you to play their game for free, but in order to encourage at least some people to pay for it it has to be limited in some way. Unlike every other game I've ever seen that sports a similar model, in SK I can play for free and see all the same content, and get all the same gear, and do everything that a pay-to-play customer can see, get and do. If this were any other game, you'd be able to play as much as you liked, but you'd have to pay real cash for T2 clearance. Or perhaps you could still get T2 clearance with the right gear, but you couldn't craft anything until you'd forked out some real-world money. (Before you think that sounds like a good idea, I should point out that it effectively locks free-to-play customers out of T3, seeing as every piece of 4* gear is bound on creation. It'd also be an excuse for paying customers to gouge you at the AH for your T2 clearance stuff.) There are a number of (perfectly legitimate) approaches that OOO could have taken in presenting a more limited experience to their free-playing customers, and it turns out that they chose the most "unlimited" one. Boo Hoo.

Go have a read of this and see how not-very-impossible it is to play and progress without resorting to spending real cash:

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/10737

And then, when you're out of Mist Energy, here's a radical thought: Go do something else!

As for your "bugs", they're a symptom of a little thing we like to call "Latency", which affects every game that's played over the internet. Ever. Learn to deal with it.

The real tough part is actually jumping from t1 to t2 and getting your first 10k.

...Then it becomes easier to make money, assuming you know how to use that 10k wisely :3

---
Can you imagine this?
Minecraft is about 20 US dollars. Imagine people whining they can only play an old, outdated version of the game for free and saying Mojang is so terrible for making them have to pay to get the real content of the game.

At least in SK, you have access to the full content of the game as-is, even without spending cash yourself (of course, someone pays somewhere). And if you do spend cash, you essentially buy yourself the rest of the game, stress-free.

Aziraphaile - Even though you were "scraping together mats and clearance for my T2 runs" you neglect to mention that CE was far cheaper, then, compared to the way it is, now. Also, it take crowns to make an auction, a fee that is returned only if the posting doesn't fall through (a skill that can only be refined through failure in trial and error, at the added expense of the newbie). At the beginning stages, every crown counts. You've been there, so you know how it is.

Now, to address your apologetic rant on behalf of OOO - virtually nobody expects to only be able to play around 1 hour a day in a game that declares itself to be free to play. In every free to play game I have ever played (and I've played many) that has managed to remain financially successful, the core gameplay is fully accessible to everyone and the micro-transactional mall items only and I mean ONLY serve to add appearance customization or facilitate character progression. I'm not saying it's the perfect model or that it's not prone to abuse, but it works. Also, while nobody would find your hypothetical to be a good idea, that doesn't necessarily mean that the current business model they have is a feasible one. Lastly, they didn't choose the most unlimited one, but rather the most limiting. So what if people can bypass the limit, eventually? Chances are, people will lose interest, before then, be it from frustration or impatience. There are other games out there besides Spiral Knights.

I like how the pervasive attitude in the forums is "Go do something else!" Well, maybe they will, but they probably won't come back.

Cheers.

When I started playing, CE was going at about 5k per 100 CE. Which is STILL beyond the payout of a T1 run, so it didn't make as much of a difference as you seem to think it did. Sure, if I'd started much earlier, back when CE was apparently less than half of what it is now, you might have had an argument, but it hardly applies to me.

And you only pay a fee for putting something up for auction yourself. I never even addressed the role of the AH as an income generator in my post, and it certainly doesn't apply to a new player simply buying his T2 clearance on the AH. (Though if you insist on mentioning it, it doesn't really help your point at all, because any supplemental income from selling the stuff that drops on your runs only makes CE more affordable, not less. Anyone should be able to use the sorting functions in the AH to avoid pricing themselves out of the market, and after that any money is good money.) You can probably get a Calibur, Wolver Coat and Cap, and a Defender for around 10k altogether right now, which is actually below the cost of crafting it for yourself even back when I first started. The new T1 boss levels also payout better than anything that was available before the patch. It's actually gotten EASIER to get to T2 since the big patch, not harder.

As for "Go do something else!" not working for you, may I just politely suggest (and I mean this with all due respect, seriously) that if you really have nothing better to do than play SK, then the problem you might have is a little closer to home than OOO's F2P mechanics? There is a hole in your life that needs filling, and despite what you think it's probably not SK-shaped. Personally, I like the current system, because my time management skills suck, and it means that I'm forced to actually go and do things that need doing at some point.

P.S. And Furthermore!!!

"virtually nobody expects to only be able to play around 1 hour a day in a game that declares itself to be free to play."

No, I have to admit that I didn't. What I expected was to be playing a game with a reduced feature-set and restricted access to content until I paid real cash. Like every other "F2P" game in existence.

What I got was way, way better than I might have expected.

Drunkefox: I'm gonna complain about taking 4 months to reach the very-best items in a game because I've never played an MMO in my life (trololololol)

Firstly, anyone in this day and age that starts playing any kind of MMO without doing some basic research deserves whatever problems they encounter. Unlike many MMO's, the knowledge base is linked from the main home-page of the game. You don't even have to use Google or something. If you can find SK to download and play it, the Wiki is right there.

And you talk as though 10k is hard for a new player to get, which it isn't. Snarbolax runs net anywhere between 2.5k to 3.5k per run in pure crowns alone, and not exactly difficult, especially if you're willing to ask those questions that a new player should be asking. Either of other players, or of the wiki/forums. You can get most of the necessary cash on day one, as between your initial energy allotment and the Mist Tank they give you for reaching Haven you can do it three times right away, with 20ME left over in case you have to energy-rez a few times. Just running Snarby, for 2 days, and you'll have your T2 clearance and cash left over. And a new Mist Tank.

Note that I still haven't mentioned any extra money you could be making by selling all those materials you're not using, either via the AH or not. Which you keep suggesting is hard, which frankly it isn't.

And Eve Online is a P2P game, no question. It's also utterly unique among MMO's in that there is an in-game system for paying for your subscription with in-game cash, and the feature in question isn't advertised widely. It doesn't pretend to be a F2P game, it has never been advertised as though it were a F2P game, and many people actually playing the game don't even know that such a thing is possible. The only real similarity is that if you are doing so, you're actually buying your game-time from other players who've bought "PLEX's" with real world money. You literally cannot play at all unless you either pay to play, or buy PLEX's from other players in game. And if you think our CE market is piratical and unfair, well, you haven't seen anything.

Sure, you don't get a whole pile of free play in SK with the 100 ME per day, but there's this expression: "You get what you pay for." You pay nothing, you should expect to get nothing. OOO gives you a whole lot more than nothing, so you have nothing to complain about.

I have to say that I'm actually getting pretty irritated by some posts I've seen lately. Nothing even major, but still irritating to me. Comments like, ''No, I have to admit that I didn't. What I expected was to be playing a game with a reduced feature-set and restricted access to content until I paid real cash. Like every other F2P game in existence.''

People who say things like that either have only played a few F2P MMOs, or have really only seen a few that happened to restrict content unless you pay and thus got a ''bad impression'' of what a F2P game is.

For one thing: Most F2P games do -not- restrict content, at all. The only ''content'' that is typically ''restricted'' in a F2P MMO is what's in their cash shops. Cash shop items in MMOs typically contain aesthetic changes for your character, pets, etc, or some form of game ''enhancements''; e.g. EXP boosters, special potions, crafting aids, etc.

In the five years I've played online games I've only ever heard of a few F2P MMOs that restricted -actual- game content unless you paid for it, and these were somewhat ''older'' games.

---

Another thing I can't stand is how impatient most players around here seem to be. It makes you really notice how impatient western online gamers have gotten (I'm American so calm down) when it comes to how fast content arrives.

For starters: Spiral Knights wasn't created in Korea or Japan like -most- online games today. It does -not- have a couple of years worth of available content that just needs to be localized and implemented, like -most- online games today. This is a game that's right out of the oven, nice and hot, and every change and content addition we see is brand new, never-before-seen because this is the only version of Spiral Knights.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm no suck-up, I've voiced my opinions on Spiral Knights issues before, several times, but I honestly can't stand posts like the ones I mentioned, I just had to get this off my chest.

Yeah now how about finding a MMO where you can get the best equipment for less than half a year.

Shoo, I say! Shoo!

Lesson of the day:

Drinking causes people to come up with horrible conclusions such as our original poster so lay off the brandy, gin, rum, tequila, vodka, whiskey, beer, and wine.

Having been a player with OOO for somewhere over five years (I think), I have to say that they're actually one of the most responsive, friendly, and genuinely good to work with companies I've come across.

Mind you, I actually spend money now and again for my entertainment and don't expect everything to be dropped in my lap without cost.

It took me 1 month to get to T3 on mist. Does this mean I beat the system?

Sounds reasonable to me. Or pay for CE, or learn to make money selling stuff, playing the AH/market.

Drunkefox. Go get a job.

Buy CE. The endorphins associated with instant gratification are absolutely delicious. Om nom nom.

Edit: Goddamn it, me. Stop being right and stop starting unnecessary and superfluous arguments. It's like I have no self-control when it comes to pointing out wrongness.

If life gives you dillemas....
...make dillemanade.
I hope you like puns, 'cause this one ain't going nowhere fast.

Well guys, after some time of serious Spiral Knights addiction, I'm finally breaking up the chains, thanks to League Of Legends, an also free to play game, except you can play without worrying too much if you're running out of something, because you can then hit the play again button.

Anyways, Spiral Knights is an amazing polished game, lovely graphics and characters, and I look forward to the PvP update, maybe this will bring some energy free playing time.

merethif - You have your style and I have mine. However, people generally get around 1 hour for their ME in T1 runs, usually less, sometimes more. I thought I was being generous with my estimate, but I suppose there are the anomalies like you.

When T2 and T3 runs start being mentioned, players are likely past the ME limit and are capable of maintaining energy costs for runs. However, for a while, they will only break even, creating another level of emotional semi-duress for people to purchase CE for USD in order to further upgrade their in-game equipment.

Also, what game has ever put you up at gunpoint and said "CUSTOMIZE YOUR APPEARANCE NOW, OR DIE!"?

You and Eurydice make me giggle.

Sure, it's easier to say that there are other games out there from the player perspective, but OOO should be doing what they can to gain players' loyalty. Also, I might seem like a madman because I'm railing against the majority, but I'm not sure how it is I'm whining like a sissy by not jumping on the bandwagon.

Aziraphaile - Going on Google and utilizing the wiki require equal amounts of effort, in my opinion. Will people do it? Some perhaps will. The reality is that most people won't, because they want to jump right into the gameplay. For a game of this style, unless it advertises otherwise, people will expect everything is pretty straight forward. Often times, it isn't. Sure, they'll get it from trial and error, but the allotment of free ME doesn't allow for much of it.

What you claim should be easy for everyone is easy for you because you have that knowledge base and the practiced reflexes to fight everything. You can't possibly hold that standard to everyone, especially the newbies. There's a reason why you'd make for a poor and unpolished businessperson - you're too idealistic. Unless they do the research beforehand (which, even if it benefits them greatly to do so, I don't think they should have to), they wouldn't immediately know that purchasing 1* items isn't worthwhile, that ME regenerates fully every 22 hours (so they should conserve it and resist reviving, opening energy gates, etc. unless the crowns acquired incur a net gain), that selling in AH is more profitable for them than to sell to spammers, that there is an energy market for them to purchase from that could save them crowns from simply clicking "Buy Energy" or "Buy Crowns", and the list goes on.

Also, for you to suggest selling materials outside the AH is just worthy of a facepalm. Even with wiki research, there are still elements of this game that can only be realized from trial and error, such as selling 3* Jelly-token armor to NPCs is more immediately profitable than its token equivalence in any other item or that not all armor-resistances/weapon-elemental-bonuses are equally represented in this game. I'm not suggesting it's difficult in general, but, for the newest of newbies, you just can't assume they'll all get it right away.

Your final quote seems to speak more in support for P2P games than F2P. Whether or not OOO gives a whole lot more than nothing is a subjective call and I still find that it's restrictive, based on my experience with MMOGs.

I.. I don't know if I should bother replying anymore, wow:

@Volebamus
Grand Chase, is a very good example of one of those games: there is a huge variety of gear u can get, and best of all u wanna know what? u can play the game as long as u want, without having to sacrifice the gold u earn in dungeons.
Gunbound, again u can play as much as u want and there is a huge variety of gear u can get, and again u dont have to sacrifice ur in game earned money to keep playing.

is that enough?

LOL, no. You did NOT answer my question, and went on an unrelated ramble. I said name MMOs where you can get BEST complete set of gear under half a year.
.

now going back to SK, "You sound full of it. 2 weeks to what exactly? " i answer ur question with a quote of my last post "i played this game for 2 weeks just put 5 bucks on it and already running Vog cub and CIV" here u go in case u didnt knew how to read 20 mins ago. now 3 and a half months u say? are u sure? and in any case 3 months and a half is still to much. cus right now im doing runs on T3 and as much as money that gives that still is not enough to buy CE and keep on going, furthermore i feel like its a rip off every time i buy some CE so im currently running in pure ME at this rate ima get my lvl 5 bomb in 1 week. but again this is T3 including the first 3 lvls of vanna. think about it, a T1 how much money he can make with 100ME? 2.5-3.5k compared to 8.5k of T3 so it will take at least 3 times more time, for only 1 5* item that would be a minimum of 3 weeks, u think thats fair? compared to how it was before? this company changes the rules from one extreme to the other.

Dude, you're replying to several people at once, I didn't bother reading something that you're referencing a comment you made to Dirt to be directed to me. Also, no, 3.5 months is not too long. You've yet to give me an MMO where you can get the best set of gear in a game less than half a year, especially not sooner than 3.5 months (which is apparently too long lol).

Also, if you really wanted to see where the 3.5 months for someone only playing an hour a day came from, see this topic:
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/9595

Lastly, if you want to argue with someone about how long a set of 5* should take, it sure as hell shouldn't be me. Pre-update, I was able to acquire FIVE 5* in a matter of 3 weeks, though I did shell out $10. If the update never happened, I could have been swimming in multiple 5* costume sets and 5* weapons because of how easy it was to sell 5*. And I doubt I would have been the only player to do that. You think that environment would exactly be healthy for this game?
.

"Also, the equipment does NOT have 5 levels, just 5 tiers of leveling" <--- LMAO really? ur gonna defend ur argument with this? heat lvls are a joke, the item evolves 5 times thats it, heating a weapon does not count as lvl, its just like completing the item, it doesnt change at all it just deals a bit more dmg, big deal.

Oh wow, hahaha. Did you just say than leveling an item should NOT count as leveling, since you just do more damage or have higher defenses? Oh wait, what stats exactly go up when you level in other games again? Strength and defense you say? Well, what a coincidence, so does leveling equipment here too! Look at that, astounding.

"name MMOs where you can get BEST complete set of gear under half a year"

about every game in alpha? Also Phantasy Star Universe just to name a random example. (that doesn't pass if you want to condemn having fancy upgrade tiers that dont do much at all) (I had a bunch of psycho wands (the best rod type), the best wands and mags (everything +5 or higher), just to name my force stuff; still, there were items around in that game so rare and elusive they went for more than the cap of money you could hold at once (they really didnt do anything special); well I had so much value in spare items left I could buy anything anyway; played 2 months)

Also to add to the op post:
Player: Great, now I'm T3~!
OOO: Enjoy grinding more jelly *trololo*

@Volebamus

Also, you still have not said ONE other MMO where you can get the best set of gear in less than half a year.

Other?

Getting the best gear on this MMO is practically impossible, thanks to the UV system.

On another, related topic: How many chickens do I have to sacrifice to the dark lords of the internets to craft a haze bomb with a charge reduction UV!? Seriously, how many?