Forums › English Language Forums › General › Suggestions

Search

Balancing and New Gear!

9 replies [Last post]
Tue, 07/28/2015 - 20:30
Technobrony

This post is an improvement over my previous post (which was mostly full of bad ideas). So I'll jump into things right now.

Balancing Operation Crimson Hammer (and some other areas in the clockworks) (mostly Tier 3 problems, but put this aside).:
So my main complaint of unbalance is this: During the First Battle-pod fight, you can (and most likely WILL) get swarmed by enemies in Tier 3. So I MUST suggest making that area bigger, to prevent some of the monster swarming (and thus some deaths). This problem can also occur in the clockworks, too!

Now that that's out of the way, New Gear! (YAY!)

Notes: (*), (**), (***), (****), (*****) = Star level.

Weapons:

(2*) - (5*), (Handgun)
One-Handed crossbow - A long-range handgun that looks like a crossbow, and shoots arrows! The arrows go far, and fast!
Damage type: Piercing.
Status affliction: N/A (Defaultly, this allows for elemental versions, if desired.)
Clip Size: 3

(3*) - (5*), (Handgun)
Scuttlebot Handgun - A handgun, shooting similar to how the scuttlebots attack, but going farther, and has a 3-shot volley.
Damage type: Elemental
Status Affliction: N/A
Clip Size: 2

(5*), (Sword)
Crimson Order Thwack Hammer - A powerful Thwack Hammer, bearing the symbol of the Crimson Order. It's origins are unknown.
Damage type: Normal
Slight chance of causing Major Stun
Damage Bonus Vs. Construct: Very High

(2*) - (5*), (Handgun) Puppy Gun (Don't even Fangel) - A handgun that looks, and shoots, like a gun puppy! Fires two bullets, one after the other, when uncharged.
Rapidly Fires 4 single bullets, one after the other, when charged. (2 star basic version)
Fires 3, spread bullets twice, when charged. (3 & 4 star upgrades)
Fires 5 spread bullets from right to left (you cannot move) twice when charged. (5 star upgrade)
Notes: Low speed, high damage.
Damage type: Elemental
Status Afflictions: N/A
Damage Bonus Vs. Construct: Medium

(2*) - (5*), (Handgun)
Howlitzer Hand-Cannon - A handgun the looks, and shoots, like a howlitzer! Shoots a single bullet, causing a small explosion (dealing minimal damage, but knocking enemies away) after reaching maximum distance, or hitting an enemy or wall (uncharged)
Fire a single, large explosive bullet, which a bigger explosion radius, dealing slightly more damage. (2 star basic version)
Fires a 3 bullet spread twice, with the middle bullets exploding (same conditions) (charged at 3 and 4 stars)
Fires a 5 bullet spread twice, with the middle and very edge bullets exploding (same conditions) (charged at 5 stars)
Damage type: Shadow
Status Afflictions: N/A

(2*) - (5*), (Handgun) Polyp Barb-Shot Handgun - A slimy handgun, that can shoot Polyp Barbs!
Fire a single barb, twice, when uncharged.
Fires a 2 barb spread twice, when charged. (2 star basic version)
Fires a 3 barb spread twice, when charged. (3 and 4 star upgrades)
Fires a 5 barb spread twice when charged. (5 star upgrade)
Damage type: Piercing
Status Affliction: N/A

(2*) - (5*), (Bomb)
Rocket Puppy Rocket - launches 4 mini-rockets (in the cardinal directions), that fly a short distance before exploding (1/2 the bomb's radius) (at 2 stars).
Launches with basic homing (3 and 4 star upgrades)
Launches with advanced homing (5 star upgrade)
Damage type: Normal.
Status Afflictions: N/A (directly).
CTI - Low.

(5*), (Sword) Darkfang Wrench Wand/ Dark Matter Wrench Wand - An improved wrench wand, held by Darkfang menders, contains a purple crystal, instead of yellow. This crystal is believed to be Dark Matter, but has not been proven.
Launches an energy bolt (purple) that can home in on enemies (but not well)
Damage type: Normal.
Charged Ability: Remove Darkfang Healing Runes (when damaging an enemy standing on one).
Damage Bonus Vs. Construct: Very High

(Unknown, technically 6*)
Void/Swarm Set (Sword, Gun, Bomb) - Enhanced by the power of the Swarm!
Damage type: Normal/Shadow
Act like the Standard Spiral Order Set (5-star), but have the following changes:
All) Enemies have a high chance to not drop crowns, hearts, or vials.
Gun) May turn hit enemies into their swarm counter-parts.
Bomb) May infect enemies and tile in it's radius with the Swarm

(5*)
Flux Set - A strange set with power flux!
Effect (for all):
Slight chance of causing Moderate Curse, Fire, Freeze, Poison, Shock, or Stun
Chance of Receiving Curse, Fire, Freeze, Poison, Shock, or Stun

Armor:

(Unknown, technically 6*)
Void/Swarm Set (Helm, Armor, Shield) - Grants a resistance to the Swarm. (Player not affected by the Swarm Infection).
Defense type: Normal & Piercing
Shield Health: High - Max
A branch BEYOND the Azure Guardian Set.
CANNOT gain heat.

Shields:

(3*) - (5*)
Shankle Shield - A shield, inspired by the shankle creatures that roam the clockworks! Enemies can break it, but It'll hurt them, too!
Defense type: Varies
Status Resist: N/A.
Damages enemies on contact with it (1/x chance)
Damage Type: Varies
Health: Very Low

(3*) - (5*)
Trojan Plate Shield - A plate shield, modified to defend against shadow damage! Look's like the Trojan's Plate Shield!
Defense type: Shadow.
Status resist: ???.

(1*) - (5*)
Dodge Shields - Lower defense than other shield of it's star level, but decrease dodge cooldown.
Defense type: Varies
Status Resist: N/A
Health: Low

(5*)
Flux Shield - a strange shield with power flux!
Defense type: Normal
Health: High - Very High
Can cause one of the following (changes every depth, and lasts for that entire depth):
Speed Boost
Damage Boost
Shield Boost
Speed Decrease
Damage Decrease
Shield Decrease

As with my other post, NO, I did NOT read through any other suggestions post too see if there was anything similar. I checked the wiki to make sure there were no things that were actively the same.

I will take and add suggestions to the main post (credited for additions or new items), and modify the main post when relevant criticism has been made as to something being too overpowered or unfair (credited for edits or removals), but I HAVE TRIED to make sure the things are balanced. I will respect any criticisms made.

Any ??? may be filled by suggestions. Items marked with a + need to be modified (please suggest things) (and please no: "I suggest removing it altogether, because it's stupid". I'll ignore that kind of comment).

Credited Suggestors: Rhons, Blandaxt, Fangel, Jcryano

Changelog: Changed Rocket Puppy Bomb. Added Flux Set and Shield

Tue, 07/28/2015 - 21:11
#1
Falminar's picture
Falminar
....

You can edit threads. I'd just edit your last post and put at the bottom that you changed it.

Tue, 07/28/2015 - 21:47
#2
Technobrony
RE: ....

But that's not the point. I'm not going to argue (anymore than this), but the point was this: I made a post. And people commented on it. And because I had different, and changed, ideas, I made another post instead of editing the old one, so that the comments wouldn't seem out of whack for those just viewing, and I wouldn't be happy if I DID edit it, whether or not I made a new reply saying that I edited it. And I had a much better format to test out anyways, so even more reason for a new post.

Wed, 07/29/2015 - 08:53
#3
Blandaxt's picture
Blandaxt
hmm..

"(Handgun) Scuttlebot Handgun"

I feel the scuttlebot handgun should shoot volleys of bullets instead of just the same way the scuttlebot attacks. And really i am a bit well really disapprove taking monster mechanics and turning them to weapons for us players. Seems too much like copy and pasting. So any way, one clip from the bullet shoots 3 volleys of consecutive bullets dealing no knockback, but flinching the target. Can deal normal and elemental damage plus has the freeze status.

Wed, 07/29/2015 - 09:01
#4
Technobrony
RE: hmm..

"I feel the scuttlebot handgun should shoot volleys of bullets instead of just the same way the scuttlebot attacks."
Didn't think of that, not a bad idea either!

"And really i am a bit well really disapprove taking monster mechanics and turning them to weapons for us players. Seems too much like copy and pasting. "
Well. Yeah, I guess you're right. I'll try and see about making them similar to the monsters, yet unique at the same time.

"one clip from the bullet shoots 3 volleys of consecutive bullets dealing no knockback, but flinching the target. Can deal normal and elemental damage plus has the freeze status."
That's a good idea, although I'm not sure about the freeze. Maybe shock, since it's based off of a construct.

Wed, 07/29/2015 - 10:30
#5
Rhons's picture
Rhons
Feedback

Handguns:

I read through all of the Handguns with vigor (as a Gunslinger), and it seems like you did not research enough about the mechanics of weapons. For those Handguns to only have one clip, they all lack an easily executable charge attack (you'll have to reload to then start charging). Since you also never specified any charge mechanics, I have another take and think all of those Handguns only have a charge, much like Bombs. That leaves a sour taste in my mouth, as all Handguns are meant to be used traditionally one way or another (by traditionally, I mean like shoot normal shots and then switch to another Handgun to avoid reloading).

Specifically:

The One-Handed Crossbow is vastly inferior to that of the Callahan-line. The Callahan is two-shot (as opposed to single clip) and has an immensely-powerful charge. You cited that it dealt low damage, further weakening it.

Why is the Scuttlebot Handgun only a three star and apparently meant for shocking? No one would bother with it due to its pure restrictions to Tier Two Clockworks/Lockdown (which is dead), and the name would be incorrect. If you must insist on it being Shock, the proper name is Surgebot. Simply listing why it deals Shock is because Construct is like urging that Burmabots/Hazbots/Cinderbots deal Shock.

Your descriptions to the Gun Puppy/Howlitzer/Polyp Handguns/Rocket Puppy are confusing. Quoting where I found confusion:

... shoots one bullet (triple volley) at 1-5 stars...

If I were to make you edit, fixing that error found in those three Handguns would suffice.

Still on those three Handguns (excluding Rocket Puppy), they all apparently branch off the Gun Puppy, which starts at one star. That means it would have to be purchasable only (like the new Gunslinger Armor to avoid ragecrafting). You also made it so that the Four Star Gun Puppy is vastly superior to its Howlitzer/Polyp cousins (five bullets versus three). I suggest instead having each their own one star version and then modeling off of the existing Gun Puppy.

Is the Rocket Puppy Handgun apparently more like a Bomb? Apparently, you intended on it being usable as charge-only, like a Bomb.

Overall Problems with Handguns: Everything is one clip and that bothers me. Experienced Gunslingers hate reloading, and one-shots would not be quite as viable. Various other problems with each Handguns already listed.

Other Problems:

Darkfang Wrench Wand's charge is only situational and would be worthless to carry around some levels that lack any Gremlins.

Crimson Order Thwack Hammer would deal less damage than a Troika due to its buffs (Stun, Dmg. vs. Construct).

Shankle Shield: Shields are supposed to be defensive, with Shield Bashes its own means of passive-aggression. Description was not as clear as I think you wanted it to be? Damage Reflection or Shield Bump Vanaduke to Death?

_____

I thank you for your time. If your name holds true, brohoof.

Wed, 07/29/2015 - 11:00
#6
Technobrony
Thanks Rhons

I do see my error, though that was at a balancing standpoint (Fairness is difficult.... :/ ). I'll fix the clip size (to 2, at least) and definitely re-write the descriptions, and change abilities, star levels, etc.

The Darkfang Wrech Wand is just an upgraded wrench wand, with a partial bonus ability (the Crimson Order Thwack Hammer is the same, minus the bonus ability, maybe I'll give it more construct damage or higher stun chance... maybe.). It's kinda SUPPOSED to be situational, but also a (some-what) decent melee weapon at 5 stars. And that's not to say that the charge DOESN'T do anything else, I just don't go into EXTREME detail with everything.

The Shankle Shield can be balanced in this way: it's a 1/x CHANCE to deal damage when enemies hit it. And also it wouldn't be viable as a weapon, by nerfing the damage (which, I didn't say how much it did to begin with).

And about the Scuttlebot Gun Shock application, and being only Tier 3:
Shock:
"one clip from the bullet shoots 3 volleys of consecutive bullets dealing no knockback, but flinching the target. Can deal normal and elemental damage plus has the freeze status."
That's a good idea, although I'm not sure about the freeze. Maybe shock, since it's based off of a construct.
Of coure, I'll just remove that bonus, anyhow.

And you can thank Fangel for the reason why it was a one-off to start with (on this post):
"Scuttlebot gun - Divine avenger swing, but with gun bonuses. Also worse than a divine avenger. No."
I've boosted it since then, and will probably expand it's star levels in the repairs.

Anyways, thanks for your input. You will be credited. And yes, my name does hold up! Brohoof

Wed, 07/29/2015 - 13:11
#7
Fangel's picture
Fangel
You summoned me

EDIT: Took me a while to write this as I started at breakfast, went to work, started working, then remembered I had written some of it up so I had to finish it. Looks like Rhons said some things I would've said. Most of what I was saying was about 10:20 forum time, so yeah, that's a thing.

You said my names three times in one post on the suggestions forum, so now you'll get to hear my whine again.

Single-shot guns are a bad idea, primarily because of the whole "charging weapons" ordeal. The punch gun says it is a single-fire weapon, yet it fires two rounds per clip. Single-shot weapons simply don't fit into the game. The charge attacks can be a single shot however, so try to focus single-shot mechanics to those attacks.

For the sake of balancing weapons (which seems to be your whole point anyways), I will say what the clip sizes should be, then say my thought processes for guns with single-shots.

Crossbow
(2 shots) Sounds an awful lot like a callahan that doesn't root you in place. I would be sort of for it if the damage is worked with accordingly, and if we had high-chances statuses.

Scuttlebot handgun
(2 shots) A one-off allows for more random factors to a weapon, so it can pass up here. It just needs to have a fair amount of range instead of being, like, 1 tile long. Should be at least 1 tile longer than the longest sword range.

Turret guns
(3 shots) Essentially what I said before, they're trying to be a blaster and an autogun, and failing at both. Still not feeling these weapons.

Rocket puppy launcher
(2 shots) Idea has been thrown around, but there's a lot to be considered here. The physical rocket being fired should be a charge-only ability. The standard attack can be something like a short-ranged push of concentrated air and gunpowder that deals high knockback and moderate damage, or it could have a little gun attacked to the rocket launcher that attacks with standard attacks.

Wrench wand revamp
Removing mender circles, no. No to that in general. Do you want to cast status runes however? Such as either a poison one or maybe a fire one? That I can say yes to. I'd say no more than one rune per person, and have them be smaller in size than the mender rune. You want to disable the runes, why not instead combat the mender's runes with poison ones that make them do your job for you? (Plus it feels more like a unique weapon)

Resistor set
I have since responded to that post.
Having little to no defense is not going to help, even with such massive status boosts. The "anti-boosts" I was talking about would be something like putting "ASD: low", "DMG penalty: low", and "CTI: medium" per piece, but having +2 to most statuses. You could have it not resist curse and instead provide a nice amount of defense as well.
Low defense in higher tiers is not helpful. Instead of lowering defense on a set that only is useful when it gets hit, add combat debuffs. Damage and ASI penalties of low per piece will not affect combat too negatively, and CTI will not matter too much, it'll just be harder to bring a bomb with you.

Shankle shield
Still fine with this. I would say have one in each damage type. Would be kind of awkward if they dealt the same damage as they resisted, so they could all resist normal damage but deal normal/piercing/shadow/elemental.

Trojan plate shield
Same thoughts as before - good shield if it's simply a branch off at 5*, like all the other plate shields.

Dodge shields
We've played with the idea of dodge cooldowns a lot on the suggestions forum, but I'm not sure if shields are the way to do it. If the shield was like a swiftstrike for dodge, it could work I suppose. Not really for or against this one, but I'd rather see dodge armors first to see what a good number would be for a shield.

And as for suggesting things in the future, try to do it all in one thread. I appreciate the bit of humor you put in against me there, but people might not know the relevance of that thread, and think that you've got top researchers working on anti-fangel spray as we speak.
Also, it's much easier to read 1*-5* than it is to read *-*****. I don't mentally see the difference between 4* and 5* when they're all asterisks, but I can tell at first glace what start level it is with the number in front.

Wed, 07/29/2015 - 14:49
#8
Jcyrano's picture
Jcyrano
ok, let me see if I understood this right

(**) - (*****), (Bomb)
Rocket Puppy Rocket - launches a normal rocket (in the direction you were facing) at 2 stars.
Launches a basic homing rocket (3 and 4 star upgrades)
Launches an advanced homing rocket (5 star upgrade)
Suffers longer charge times than most bombs.
Damage type: Normal.
Status Afflictions: N/A (directly).
CTI - High.

Fangel correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't be turning a bomb into charged brandish attack??
also if the only thing this bomb brings is damage pure damage people will stick with the nitro or the BAB because a long charge time just to do damage at distance, with the risk of knock-back an enemy towards you, while charging a very slow bomb doesn't sound like a clever idea, although I recognise the originality you're forgetting what bombs do, they Crowd-Control through status or a blastshield(yes that impermeable barrier when someone spam a Nitro)
they are supportive weapons... they chop enemies health by small portion so you can finish them faster, they make them weaker, freeze them in place, taze them, Daze them, gather them all together so you can one shoot them... That's what bomb do, they hit in Area, the true high damage of a bomb is seen when it hit several monsters, not one, even the only damage bombs brings utility to the group.. with that in mind, redesign the bomb, I'm looking forward about what you're able to create

Wed, 07/29/2015 - 16:09
#9
Technobrony
I may just give up, for now.

Just to say this: I may not comment on these further. I may not even update the main post. It's not that I don't like the criticism. In fact, it's very helpful. However, I am very bad about unbalanced items, and being creative. So for a while, I'm just going to stop. Might rework the main stuff Again... but that'll be later. Anyhow, I hope you guys respect my decision to quit these suggestions after that. And everything will get rebalanced. Again. And won't be kind of stupid. Or copies of monsters.

Powered by Drupal, an open source content management system