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Community weapon ratings - Guns (voting finished)

63 replies [Last post]
Wed, 09/30/2015 - 15:19
#51
Skepticraven's picture
Skepticraven
↓

"Overall, normal damage can be underwhelming but specialized damage is even more underwhelming when you're stuck using it on enemies that resist it, and you can't always afford to give up extra slots just to get that extra bit of damage."

And how frequently do you get stuck having to use it against enemies that resist it? Seems like poor choice on your part given the available information to predict depth monsters.

Wed, 09/30/2015 - 17:40
#52
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

It actually happens quite a bit when bombing with certain loadouts. Take a normal gremlin arena with the loadout-

Chaos set

Ash of agni = counter most everything that isn't a mender
Venom veilor = counter menders
Some gun = be able to deal something that isn't crowd control

If you make some gun phantamos, then the trojan could kill you easily or the turret type could be howlitzers.

----------

Other times it is a specific level presenting the problem- compounds can have fiends + slimes or undead + gremlin or beast + construct. A lot of the harder end game levels also benefit from normal damage as a type- assault on grinchlin mountain and dreams and nightmares being the two. Both of these levels have a huge variety of enemies; bringing any form of support weapon (or on type damage that does not counter all of the enemies, like scintillating sun shards vs grievers) can make for a situation where normal damage is the only type not resisted/worthwhile.

Wed, 09/30/2015 - 19:35
#53
Trats-Romra's picture
Trats-Romra

@Fehzor and Dibsville
Thanks for your opinion.

@Skepticraven and Krakob
I think I will go with Fehzor and Dibsville here. They are showing and observing more scenarios, so their opinions looks more reliable to me than yours.
I see that specialized damage is good, but can be bad when it doesn't open you to others qualities (crowd control, status spreading, etc), because you need to cover all level's enemies on damage terms. So Valiance don't lose his shining, even with the specialized alternatives' existence: You can use Valiance to cover the different enemies and add another weapon that allows you to add another quality to your loadout.

Wed, 09/30/2015 - 20:20
#54
Skepticraven's picture
Skepticraven
↓

@Fehzor

With that scenario, any normal damage weapon should become valuable - including CIV/Levi, of which you ranked significantly lower than Valiance (1 and 3 respectively compared to 5).
I'll also note that at the time of this post... all 4 of your Val variants are ranked at 5 and Acheron is ranked at 2.

Keep in mind - I'm all for saying guns are OP compared to all swords... but your reasoning seems inconsistent. Normally when one chooses a counter-only weapon, the other weapon(s) choices are primary DPS. If you're solo, there's no reason to need any other weapon past VV+AoA unless you're on a fire themed depth. Valiance frankly doesn't have good DPS - it's mediocre at best. I'd probably rank it below an acheron (which you gave a 2 and I gave a 1).

@Trats-Romra

Keep in mind there is a bias with the ideas they are presenting. Doing a brief run of some numbers suggests that Fehzor's scenario is "possible" for about 2/20 arcade depths (going by possible gate constructions) and 2/97 missions (I didn't exclude "talk-only" missions). They are valid points, but they really aren't as frequent as they are being presented. I'm fairly familiar with the frequency of things that occur in the arcade because of this.

Wed, 09/30/2015 - 20:27
#55
Cyphereau's picture
Cyphereau

Arcana: 1
Argent Peacemaker: 1
Biohazard: 1
Blitz Needle: 1
Callahan: 5
Gilded Griffin: 1
Gorgofist: 5
Grand Tortofist: 5
Grim Repeater: 1
Hail Driver: 1
Iron Slug: 1
Magma Driver: 1
Neutralizer: 1
Nova Driver: 1
Obsidian Carbine: 1
Omega Tortofist: 5
Overcharged Mixmaster: 0
Permafroster: 1
Phantamos: 1
Plague Needle: 1
Polaris: -1
Riftlocker: 1
Savage Tortofist: 5
Sentenza: 0
Storm Driver: 1
Supernova: 1
Umbra Driver: 1
Valiance: 1
Volcanic Pepperbox: 1
Wildfire: 1
Winter Grave: 5

My reason for these ratings is secret, as for verification: confirmed.

Thu, 10/01/2015 - 07:15
#56
Krakob's picture
Krakob

I will for obvious reasons disregard that, Cyphereau. Feel free to come back with a real submission before Monday, however.

Thu, 10/01/2015 - 13:14
#57
Wqkipedia's picture
Wqkipedia
Cyphereau usually just posts

Cyphereau usually just posts deliberately unhelpful things, I wouldn't take him seriously.

Thu, 10/01/2015 - 14:49
#58
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

@Skepticraven

I'm really not in a good mood right now so I'm going to just cut to the chase- I'm sorry I called you a raisin like 2 years ago. I don't play with people's names any longer and I really, really didn't mean any harm for it. I've learned my lesson and have always appreciated your inputs. I'm not saying that you're still angry about that, but if you are then there you have it and I don't know how much more I can give you.

The actual issue of my opinion regarding brandishes vs blasters has been fleshed out quite a great deal already in my last few posts as well as in my post about why the brandishes are bad, found here- http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/111721

Mon, 10/05/2015 - 01:39
#59
Flowchart's picture
Flowchart

Arcana: 5
Argent Peacemaker: 5
Biohazard: 1
Blitz Needle: 5
Callahan: 5
Gilded Griffin: 3
Gorgofist: 1
Grand Tortofist: 2
Grim Repeater: 4
Hail Driver: 4
Iron Slug: 5
Magma Driver: 3
Neutralizer: 1
Nova Driver: 5
Obsidian Carbine: 4
Omega Tortofist: 1
Overcharged Mixmaster: 4
Permafroster: 2
Phantamos: 4
Plague Needle: 3
Polaris: 3
Riftlocker: 4
Savage Tortofist: 1
Sentenza: 3
Storm Driver: 4
Supernova: 3
Umbra Driver: 5
Valiance: 4
Volcanic Pepperbox: 3
Wildfire: 3
Winter Grave: 3

Didn't have time to write up everything so just a few notes.

Arcana: pretty much using this instead of Valiance nowadays as a backup to a sword.
Argent Peacemaker: mouse users gonna hate but this is great on a gamepad. I usually use this if I'm not using Arcana.
Biohazard/Neutralizer: fun but not as useful in parties unless everyone has one
Gilded Griffin: ok but I'd rather use Riftlocker or Callahan more (if I'm not using DBB that is)
Grand Tortofist: interesting gimmick gun its main use is against tortodrones themselves. Others aren't too useful
Grim Repeater: this sounded like it would be great but not really needed against slimes and Blitz is better in OCH due to doing more damage to battlepods.
Overcharged Mixmaster: range is limited but otherwise it's alright (more so when it was broken) still good on mecha knights
Polaris/etc: ok I guess but maybe I'm biased against pulsars nowadays
Winter Grave: the freeze makes it less useful than it could be.

Relevant image, if something I rated isn't on there I've had it before or have it at 4*

Mon, 10/05/2015 - 04:05
#60
Bopp's picture
Bopp
some opinions

Arcana: 3
Argent Peacemaker: 2
Biohazard: 2
Blitz Needle: 5
Callahan: 5
Gilded Griffin: 2
Gorgofist: 2
Grand Tortofist: 2
Grim Repeater: 5
Hail Driver: 3
Iron Slug: 5
Magma Driver: 4
Neutralizer: 2
Nova Driver: 4
Obsidian Carbine: 2
Omega Tortofist: 2
Overcharged Mixmaster: 4
Permafroster: 2
Phantamos: 3
Plague Needle: 4
Polaris: 4
Riftlocker: 2
Savage Tortofist: 2
Sentenza: 1
Storm Driver: 4
Supernova: 5
Umbra Driver: 4
Valiance: 2
Volcanic Pepperbox: 4
Wildfire: 5
Winter Grave: 3

I'm not sure I agree with my own votes. It all comes down to technical questions such as whether wolvers and devilites dodge Riftlocker bullets. Also I haven't practiced with some gun styles (e.g. tortofist) to really know whether I'm using them to their full potential.

Once again I'll plead to be excused from the validation. For what it's worth, I've met the requirements, including at least one gun from each style, at least one gun of each status, at least one gun of each damage type, etc.

Mon, 10/05/2015 - 11:57
#61
Krakob's picture
Krakob

Due to forgetfulness I can't make the sheet tonight as I have a TF2 game to play. After I've compiled the results I'll make a new thread discussing where to take this project next and work out some other stuff to make the info more accessible.

Note to self: Zeddy gives Mixmaster a 4

Tue, 10/06/2015 - 02:52
#62
Krakob-Wiki's picture
Krakob-Wiki
@Holy Nightmare

I noticed your post uses a lot of .5 votes. I could include these I guess (all I need to do is change a function to not round numbers), but I didn't plan on permitting them. I guess if you wanna use them is up to you. Anyhow, your Mixmaster vote was literally off the charts and the reason for doing so was its lack of availability. I won't take that for a vote so you'll have to re-evaluate. I'd like to include your input so I'll wait until tomorrow or until you fix your post with summing things up.

Edit: I also noticed that you mentioned PvP in your Hail Driver analysis. Please disregard LD entirely for now, we might do ratings for LD later.

Wed, 10/07/2015 - 12:51
#63
Krakob's picture
Krakob

Done! Sheet. Holy-Nightmare's votes have been excluded for now, but I could probably brush the sheet up if they fix their votes.

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