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Crown->Energy Economy is getting out of hand

28 replies [Last post]
Sun, 05/08/2016 - 11:02
Ultimastrike's picture
Ultimastrike

I've been watching the market the last few days, and nearly each day I see the CR Price on 100 energy spike like 250 CR or so. Currently it's 11,253 Crowns just to buy a single unit of 100 energy. Considering the rate it's going, eventually it'll become too expensive to buy for players who can't buy energy through money transaction.

I know there are a few solutions, but I need help ascertaining them. Does anyone on the forums or in the game know, because if it's left like this everything will have to be forced to the grind(and Shadow Lairs will eventually become inaccessible except to the extremely rich).

Sun, 05/08/2016 - 11:14
#1
Bonjourhippo's picture
Bonjourhippo
The problem is the lack of

The problem is the lack of CE, the solution is more players buying it with money to reflate the market. "Simple". In all seriousness though, it's just the result of a trend of decline in the game's population and trust, making it harder and harder to find players willing to invest real money in the game; for Grey Haven, one way of sorting things is to simply restore boxes+energy bundles, as it has always given everyone a strong incentive to make a purchase (or if they already do, an even bigger one).
You're likely going to hear a lot of theories in here about occult groups that "hoard CE and manipulate the market", I hope for your sake you'll see how baseless and foolish they are. I will say as a final word that some players here have made it their divine calling to stop these imaginary occult group members by increasing the price of CE buy offer, which is a great opportunity to increase the price of CE sale offers, and that could partly explain some late CE rising tendencies.
Cheerio!

Sun, 05/08/2016 - 11:36
#2
Random-Remark
I've heard the bigger guilds

I've heard the bigger guilds would sell members energy at a discount, It might be worth joining them. I do that for friends I know and trust.

Sun, 05/08/2016 - 14:35
#3
Dats-Mah-Boi
Its cause nobody plays this

Its cause nobody plays this game anymore. Basically, the developers need to stop babying and holding everyone's hand and let people deal with challenges on their own.

Terrible at LD? Use AT. Terrible at PvE? Use AT. Want stronger gear? Farm a small selection of repetitive stagnant missions to heat this one piece of gear. Want money? Farm missions and get a terrible return on your investment of time.

Sun, 05/08/2016 - 16:19
#4
Kaneken's picture
Kaneken
@Lethal-Bunduru

@Lethal-Bunduru
i dont think the problem is the AT, i think its the lack of content in the game and the lack of variety, there is no real reason to go arcade, no good money besides Vana, no heat as well etc... there isnt much to do...Some gear are very good and the others are absolute rubbish..uvs are the only enchants... and even those are by absolute luck...no reason to have any trinkets besides the heart pendants... also they didnt even finish the story line properly... AT is annoying AF in Ld, but it isnt even half the problem

Sun, 05/08/2016 - 18:31
#5
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

It's all connected. Auto target is the reason the energy market is doing so poorly.

Sun, 05/08/2016 - 22:40
#6
Imorri's picture
Imorri
@Bonjourhippo

Illuminati. :3

Mon, 05/09/2016 - 05:35
#7
Sixpounder
just came back after 5 years of not being here

Ive played this game back as when it was released and i came back to playing it about a week ago. it seems that the dev team did alot to the game in order to make money out of it. now i feel how hard it is to farm those crowns through infinite amount of floors i grind. the market seems to be going to a dark place where eventually players will give up on this game. i think the devs need to remove some of those changes in order to keep players in the game so the impact of currency on this FTP will be minor. right now its up to the community to set the market price to some red line where people will refuse to buy energy for over then X amount of crowns. they also need to give us the option to earn energy freely while we grind by adding it as a dropable item. in the mean time ill keep testing the game and will try to find some fun in it tho as i started gathering mats for the t4 gear i feel like the game is doing the best it can to make me just buy energy by using money or quit it...

Mon, 05/09/2016 - 07:52
#8
Autofire's picture
Autofire
You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

It's Luguriu. His absence has been too long....

We need that mustached box!

Mon, 05/09/2016 - 18:20
#9
Promisefield's picture
Promisefield
A good idea...

What they should do is make there be a infinite amount of energy for 5-7k CR

Tue, 05/10/2016 - 03:41
#10
Vohtarak-Forum's picture
Vohtarak-Forum
no

That will kill any reason to buy energy with real money

Tue, 05/10/2016 - 13:02
#11
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

Economically speaking, people desire crowns and energy and actual money and even their time for that matter at different rates, and some combination of that can still leave room for people to buy energy with money. You're just cutting out the people that would value their money and energy more so than their time and crowns at ratios greater than whatever amount you set the energy ratio to, and not changing much else so yes, people would still buy energy if there was a cap on the crown to energy conversion.

Honestly though, a few basic things need to occur for the game to function. I listed them in a thread which can be found here, but the gist of it is that the prices are wrong.

Fire crystal costs are far too high for what is being sold- we're talking 6,300 ce which is around twenty dollars to heat a weapon. If you lower this to say, 630, then it becomes feasible for players to want to buy their way to victory. In the past this was 800 energy - 100 mist = 700 CE to craft up, so 630 would be a more balanced estimate, or 70 energy = 50 radiant fire crystals.

The other side of this is that farming is dead, and that no new content comes out, no new words, and people fear the worst and so are scared to buy energy because lets face it if the server goes down and you bought all that energy you're gonna be feeling a bit like a chump. Not everyone thinks this way but I doubt anyone would rather buy something that's going to evaporate from their grasp over a very similar something that won't.

Tue, 05/10/2016 - 12:20
#12
Fangel's picture
Fangel
Yup

If radiant fire crystals were cheaper you can bet I'd be blowing energy on them. As it stands I can run Dreams and Nightmares 2-4 times (30-60 minutes) for the same amount of radiants while making a small amount of crowns, tokens, and other rarities along the way. I can also farm Firestorm Citadel a few times and get a fair amount of radiants that way, a bunch of crowns, and hell, heat weapons too.

Many people pride themself on not spending on the game. On top of this, heating end game gear is crazy expensive, making even the people who are "pay to play" not want to spend on it. Making it more common would be a huge help and likely surge energy purchases. I would easily drop a wad of money on radiants if they were only 70 energy. Hell, it could be 140 energy and I would be all over that - would be low enough you don't feel bad buying it, but high enough it's not the "default method", like orbs of alchemy.

Wed, 05/11/2016 - 15:42
#13
Neueragon's picture
Neueragon

while I think the idea to make radiants (or just fire crystals in general) cheaper is a good one, it wont really affect the issue of energy to crowns pricing, at least not how you want it to.
the current problem is that energy is worth a whole lot of crowns. we want energy to be worth less crowns.
this can be done in two ways, increasing the supply of energy and decreasing the supply of crowns.
with your suggestion there would be another sink for energy. F2P people would buy energy with crowns just to buy a couple more radiants. in turn, even more crowns and even less energy will be on the market, the exact opposite of what you are aiming for.
if you were instead to reprice radiants in crowns, paying players would buy energy, trade it for crowns and then sink the crowns into radiants, removing crowns from the market and adding energy instead.

another thing I have noticed is that a lot of crown prices seem to have gone up. this is subjective and I might be wrong, but might be interesting nonetheless. over the years I have played I often checked the auction house for CTR med autoguns. they have a good demand for obvious reasons and can be found semi-commonly. what always seems to be the case is that they are sold for a little under 2kCE worth of crowns. in earlier days when CE was 6kcr, they were about 120kcr while they are around 200kcr nowadays.
so I posit that CE is not increasing in value, but cr is decreasing.

this also makes sense if you consider sinks. you have a lot of CE sinks, like the whole supply depot with reviving, crafting, sprites and so on; even lockdown has an energy sink. but crown sinks are rather rare. for one you have recipes and fees in crafting, which is barely anything and then you also have punch, or UV rolling. other than these two, there is no major crown sink. this needs to be fixed.
you could try squashing another "issue" while you are at it, so why not have the overabundant lockboxes be opened with overabundant crowns (in some form)? you could go even further and expand on the number of items purchasable with crowns instead of energy.

Wed, 05/11/2016 - 17:45
#14
Random-Remark
pp

I would look at Puzzle Pirates for a solution. It's got a similar economy and I've seen it climb to 8k:1 ratio or more between free currency and paid. Right now it's at 3.5k:1 and looks like it will be sitting there for a while. I think it's because there are a lot of cosmetic things that you have to spend large amounts of free currency to get a hold of and in-game materials that you can only acquire by playing the game.

A difference I've noticed in Spiral Knights is that your wealth seems to snowball. I have a ridiculous number of the three basic tokens and every low level material. When you start out with nothing, they're great, but by the time you hit 5 star they're almost worthless. It seems like the guild hall and trophy crafting were supposed to be the main crown/material sink, but then you're basically asking most players to throw their materials into the production of something that they don't really own at the end.

Maybe some craftable cosmetics with a high crown cost that require some of Brinks trinkets to make? New content would help too, but there are plenty of costumes and accessories already made, so this seems easier to pull off...

Thu, 05/12/2016 - 09:21
#15
Ultimastrike's picture
Ultimastrike
@Random-Remark

No. That doesn't work well in this economy, and it would not fix the main issue: Energy. And besides, how many people use Energy-> CR?

Thu, 05/12/2016 - 10:01
#16
Random-Remark
<--

I guess me. I buy trinket slots and weapon slots. The only place I put crowns is in the guild storage, or buying a recipe to resell it in the auction house. I invest crowns but spend energy. What do people spend crowns on that removes it from the market? UVs, maybe their guild, and the occasional featured item in the auction house.
I would love cheaper radiants, but it wouldn't make energy worth selling more, it would make worth spending more. If you want the price to drop, there need to be crown sinks that a player is willing to sell energy to pay for. I guess I'm just parroting Neueragon.

Thu, 05/12/2016 - 10:18
#17
Fangel's picture
Fangel
eep

Featured auction sales would be nice, especially if on a schedule or just had desirable items on the featured auctions always. I'm talking stuff like gold dragon costume, prismatic accessories, mixmaster, various rarities, and various auras. Have those be on featured auctions every day, week, etc, cycling out, and then having a monthly big sale would create a rather constant crown sink.

Energy is used for so much but crowns are used for so little.

Fri, 05/13/2016 - 19:30
#18
Xaurian's picture
Xaurian

To be honest, when I saw energy prices go to 11k I immediately thought that Grey Havens needs to put some sort of crownsink in soon to stop the prices from rising further.

Fangel's suggestion would be nice, but considering that trying to get the attention of Three Rings (and now Grey Havens) is like talking to a brick wall with nothing behind it, I don't see this happening.

Fri, 05/13/2016 - 20:21
#19
Sciger's picture
Sciger

Gatr, explain then why Hera keeps responding to lots of posts on the forums. xP Cronus too to a lesser extent.

Fri, 05/13/2016 - 21:03
#20
Petater's picture
Petater
@Sciger

There a difference between them talking to us and them doing something.

Fri, 05/13/2016 - 21:07
#21
Sciger's picture
Sciger

They can only do so much so quickly, pretty sure they're still working out behind the scenes stuff from the move. I'll be concerned if we don't see anything in another month or two.

Fri, 05/13/2016 - 22:04
#22
Petater's picture
Petater
:v

Someone said that last month.

Sat, 05/14/2016 - 10:02
#23
Sciger's picture
Sciger

And, I admit that giving 'em a month last month was a bit too short, I didn't realize how complicated it is to deal with moving two games over. xP

Sun, 05/15/2016 - 15:13
#24
Zincamania-Forum
Punch is an amazing crown

Punch is an amazing crown sink, the problem with it is that UVs aren't needed to play the game. Make harder area's with different strengths of status, so that players who have the right gear or UVs can be immune to some of it. Make harder area's with multiple status, so that you benefit greatly from using a defense armor set with double resistances or getting UVs. Stop making the hard area's throw around all the monster types and damage types, so we can actually specialise against the enemies we're facing. Levels like these would encourage the use of more types of armor; defense sets would be useful because they have double resists, they would be useful because having high defense against 1 damage type would actually mean something. It would make UVs a lot more valuable because they'd be important to have if you want to be able to complete these levels smoothly. It would make UVs feel like a part of the game, instead of something only p2w'ers have. More people rolling UVs means there will be more people selling them, making it easier to get the ones you need for your particular loadout and the UVs that are currently the least desirable for PvE (shadow/pierce/normal/elemental/curse/stun/monster damage bonus) would all be good to have since the new levels would be designed so specializing against certain damage/status/monster types is worth the effort.

Mon, 05/16/2016 - 05:26
#25
Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
....

What we really need is a real reason to spend time/cr/ce in game.

We Need:

Gear Balance overhaul (No longer would you need just a small handful of gear to win the game, you'd actually have to invest in crafting multiple sets to get you through levels)

New levels (Levels that are punishing if you aren't prepared but are greatly simplified with the right gear.... Ghost in the Machine and Compound 42 are great examples)

New Sprites (We've been asking for ages and we'd love something that encouraged us to get out there and work)

PVP overhaul (a real matchmaking system and some handicaps that limit AT and encourage class diversity would go a long way)

Auction house overhaul (What exactly? How about the ability to sell items for CR with the option to buy for CE at the going rate)

Mon, 05/16/2016 - 06:21
#26
Autofire's picture
Autofire
You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

Hmm....

Wait a second, if the conversion rate is so good...maybe I should buy some CE and sell it. Just for some kicks. I mean I'm saving up crowns anyway.

Mon, 05/16/2016 - 08:47
#27
Hyper-Galactic's picture
Hyper-Galactic
:^)

Good good, sell your CE so you don't buy it back when it goes up more.

Mon, 05/16/2016 - 10:22
#28
Autofire's picture
Autofire
You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

I think I get what you're saying...

But when I do play, I'm typically going to be attempting to get the costumes I want, heating up the plethora of 5* gear that I have sitting on the stack, or Punching my stuff. I don't need CE for any of that. I just need CR and time. I'll have more time before long (but not much more!), but a bit more CR are always welcome.

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