Spiral Knights - Permanent Trinket slot upgrades. And a few other suggestions

Permanent Trinket slot upgrades. And a few other suggestions

16 replies [Last post]

Sat, 05/14/2016 - 09:16

#6251

Corporal-Shade

I'm a Wizard

1. Permanent trinket slot exists in the form of a Battle Sprite. It may be small but it'll get better.

2. Some sprites have ultimate abilities that do buffs. Like the Seraphynx, which can give Shield Regen or CTR.

3. Maybe if you removed the shield, you could use the Shield button to walk in case there's something you really need to dodge.

4i. Pulsar Line is considered to be the snipers of this game, which deal more damage at a range of 5-8 blocks.
4ii. Bombers are forced to deal with walking slower when planting bombs, you can't do no-charge bombs. Plus, Nitronome has a pretty big area.
4iii. Tanky armors really do suck. They don't protect from Ranged Attacks and reduce your evading skill. They need some work.

Sat, 05/14/2016 - 11:20

#6252

Fangel

Permanent trinket do exist in battle sprites, as Blazecat said. They have even more options to them, such as family damage bonuses and movement speed increases. Pretty huge deal when you can reach max damage and MSI: VH with full black kat and a leveled battle sprite.

And to put it into perspective, I did the math recently. A trinket slot costs five dollars to unlock for a year. That's $10 for 12 months of both trinket slots. That is a fair price for a subscription IMO. If anything I'd like to have larger trinket slot upgrades that come in bulk, meaning instead of $5 for 12 months, it's something like $4.25 or $4 for 12 months of trinket slots. On top of that add the option to buy 1 week slot upgrades, and/or 2 day slot upgrades.

Other trinket suggestions are alright. Usable in both PvE and PvP. I would suggest not having the MSI trinket however, as movement speed is a very powerful asset.

Not using a shield shouldn't be a buff. Shields are an integral part of the game's combat, removing them for a slight boost would just encourage more charge spammers. I don't think many people would give up shield buffs, shield canceling, shield charging, shield bash, and actually defending damage and status for +1 or +2 MSI. Only class that might do that would be bombers, and at that point we should just make a shield that grants bomb MSI: med.

Sniper gun, ehh... Magnus lines do this pretty well. If the range gets too extreme then it leaves you out of the combat too much.

No-charge bombs would be nice. A standard attack for bombers in general is long overdue. Dropping a smaller radius, less damaging bomb would encourage pretty interesting attack styles.

Armor revamp in general would be nice. Stronger offensive gear would lose health, weaker but defensive gear would gain health. That'd be a good start to make tanks be able to well, tank damage.

Tue, 05/17/2016 - 15:55

#6253

Nizada

Responding and stuff

I get what you're saying with the sprites, but it's not uncommon in RPG's to have pet's with bonuses. I agree that if you could choose the bonuses you get for your pet's, and not just the skills this would compensate somewhat, but That would probably be a bit OP.

- The no shield boost is really just wishfull thinking on my part, and I prefer striker styles. ;)
- No charge bombs will take some time to balace, but it would be nice to see it happen.
- I'm Glad we all agree that Tanky armors needs a boost! This needs to be balanced! ^^

Edit:
I have deleated a part of this comment because it missrepresented my point. :S
Please don't get mad! >.<

Tue, 05/17/2016 - 16:10

#6254

Nizada

More stuff

When I wrote blaster in my original post, I really ment Pulsar... Could non elemental pulsars be a thing?

Edit:
I have deleated most of this comment because I was a compleate moron... :S
Please don't get mad! >.<

Sun, 05/15/2016 - 07:25

#6255

Varris-Tyr

I play no shield

I can agree with the no shield combat, honestly I'm going that myself at the moment, though one way to quickly get out of the way when your within or infront of hordes of monsters, just do one swing of a sword and hold the charge to make a quick evasion. Also, I only use trinkets to get max damage with my Heavenly Iron, having all damage bonus vs maximum (especially fiend) and have my Divine Avenger & Gran Faust literally go full attack power.

Sun, 05/15/2016 - 07:34

#6256

Nizada

Akheel reply

Same. The only reason I use a shield is to get demage/attack speed bonuses. Giving a slight speed bonus to no shield combat would really only diversify the gameplay a bit, and I think we agree that making the game more diverse is a good thing. (As long as it's balaced)

Sun, 05/15/2016 - 18:43

#6257

Fehzor

Ah, the permanent trinket slots again. They work out if you charge more than players would pay anyway, but it's rather hard to see this for many people.

Mon, 05/16/2016 - 02:17

#6258

Nizada

Jagglypoof reply

Would you please care to elaborate on that? ^^

Personly I have not used much money on the game(I'm not rich...), and it's really only after Grey haven took over to give them some support. The game makers needs money to continue developing the game, and the players needs to find the game fun in order to spend money on it. This is a fragile balace. For the game to progress we need new players, but a lot of them are disscouraged to play on for this very reason. I know several people that quit playing for this reason alone, as having to pay over and over for something that is a native part of charecter customization in RPG's, just makes the game developers look greedy.
Not everyone want's to, or have the money income to put money into a game on a regular basis. But people still want the potential to customize their charecter to their playstyle, and everyone(Mostly) wants their charecter to be unique and stand out. Trikets add a huge amount of diversity to the game, but as it is hardly anyone uses it. Why? Because it don't feel like a part of your charecter. As it is, it could just as well have been a potion effect that last for a month. People play RPG's because it makes them feel good. Because it gives them an alternative world where they have a role to play out. But on an online multiplayer RPG it's important that your charecter stands out, and provide a somewhat unique role that allow unique strategies to take place. It's about diversifying the gameplay.
It would be really nice to see trinkets accually being used regularly by players, but the way it is it could just as well not have been there for the wast majority of us. Out of the 4 people I convinced into playing spiral knights only one of them is still playing, and that's not very often at this point. Out of the 3 of them who acheaved the rank of Knight elite 2 stopped playing solely because permanent trinket slots were not an alternative.

"Ah, the permanent trinket slots again."
This statement alone gives profound backing to my argument. Those of us who have played for a long time have come to accept the flaws of the game bacause we enjoyed the game as a whole. Why I am suggesting this is because if this game are going too live on it needs new players. New players who come from other RPG's(The wast majority of us) are disscouraged by this, amongst other things. Based on feedback from IRL friends, and newer players I have become friends with this seems to be one of the biggest issues. Vanguards are generally more concerned with fire crystals, and balancing gear.

I don't want this game to die out, so it would be really nice to find solututions that are good for the developers and players alike.

Mon, 05/16/2016 - 04:46

#6259

Fehzor

I don't want to type it all out again. I was going to but then I was like no lets just not.

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/107072

Mon, 05/16/2016 - 05:15

#6260

Nizada

Mods you there..? o.O

You made good points there... ^^

It would be nice to see what the game developers think about this, so we could have a propper objective conversation about it. :P

PS: (To the Forum Mods)
If you are reading this, please respond with your opinion! ^^

Tue, 05/17/2016 - 13:19

#6261

Fangel

ehh

See I know where you're coming from, but when it literally takes $5 to buy a year of trinket slot upgrades for one slot... Well, in 5 years do you still see yourself playing the game? If you're seriously willing to spend $25 to $50 on a trinket slot, you can spend that much on energy, spend it all on trinket slots, and then use them whenever you're actively playing for a month. That will have the same effect as a permanent slot.

That being said, I still think additional tiers of trinket/weapon slots would be beneficial. Even if it's only 3 tiers each (2 day, 30 day, 180 or 365 day), they would allow for all types of players to play with slots. If you're a newbie and want to try out slots, you take 2-day slots. They might cost something like 20 energy. Up front this means you're paying less to play with trinket slots, but in the long run if you only buy 2 day slots (and play consistently) then you're spending more. Additionally, 2 day slots could be awarded as bound mission rewards, such as completing snarbolax, royal jelly, or even the hall of heroes.

I think that getting new players to try out trinket slots is a good way for them to realize their potential. However, players really don't have too big of a use for trinkets outside of heart trinkets or weapon trinkets. As such, I would recommend small slot upgrades (2-day) to the top players on the leaderboards every week. Additionally, the first time you hit 1k and every 5k increment (5k, 10k, 15k, 20k) on the leaderboard, you gain a single bound 30 day slot upgrade. Bam, players are encouraged to play PvP, which in turn allows them to craft health trinkets that are useful everywhere.

Tue, 05/17/2016 - 14:14

#6262

Nizada

ehh reply (Fangel)

You're making good points. The 2 day and 360 day slots are really good Ideas! ^^

Will I play in five years? Probably.
Regularly? No way!
I would never use that many time restricted upgrades. What I want is the ability to customise my charecter that I would get from those trinkets, while feeling they're a part of my charecter. Trinkets should not be a time limited boost. That's what potions and other sorts of buffs are for. Trinkets is a important part of charecter customisation in RPG's, and the way they are used in Spiral knights they are effectively a buff. The lack of permanent trinkets fends off a lot of new players, because it reduces diversity in the game.
A better solution would probably be to make triket slots open to all(Or at least permanent opon purchase), and than add some fancy time limited buff(2 day, a mounth, a year?) for richer players. Mobs would probably need to be buffed if this were to happen.

To sum it up. I don't want the strength the trinkets provide, but the more diverse gameplay that come with them.

Tue, 05/17/2016 - 15:47

#6263

Nizada

My mistake! :S

"If you're seriously willing to spend $25 to $50 on a trinket slot, you can spend that much on energy, spend it all on trinket slots, and then use them whenever you're actively playing for a month. That will have the same effect as a permanent slot."

Looking back I may have pushed it a bit too hard on that one... Though if they were to ad additional buffs would 5-10$ be a realistic prize for a permanent trinket slot? (Or even to have one(both?) of them from scratch?)
Again I really only wan't the game to be more diverse and enjoyable. Not to remove Premium content.

Tue, 05/17/2016 - 17:05

#6264

Fangel

lots of ways to look at it

You keep saying you want to customize your character, meanwhile you sort of miss the point that you're willing to spend the same amount of money for the same outcome.

Temporary slots work better as they do not obsolete any upgrades. Say you get a 30 day trinket slot upgrade. If you already have 450 days of a slot, you can add onto that time. Boom, always have a use for the slots!

Meanwhile if you have permanent slots, you have zero use for them. Sure you can sell them, but if permanent slots exist then subscription based slots become much less desirable.

Having shorter and longer slot upgrades in a "buy longer, get higher discount" sort of way makes slots desirable and open to a large variety of people. Play for a few days at a time? 2 day slots work best for you. Play fairly frequently for a few months then find something else? 30 day slots! Is SK your main game right now? Buy 365 day slots!
Additionally these 2 day slots become cannon fodder, being given away for giveaways, on features auctions, bonuses for energy purchases, etc. They don't cost much, but have a huge impact on players.

Additionally, instead of "power surge weekends", we could implement weekends that unlock all slots for all players. This would encourage players to play for the weekend, try out trinkets and more weapon slots... and figure out if they want to invest in them! Free weekends would essentially be free 2-day slots (or 3 day slots to include friday) applied to all players, meaning if you've got all slots unlocked you get an additional 2 for free.

Bottom line is that if you're looking to augment your player, it's silly to say it's too expensive to buy slots and then say you're willing to purchase pretty much the same thing that already exists. Would a permanent $25 trinket slot be worthwhile? Probably, but with the current model it seems almost wrong when you can pay $5 and quit when the game is less of a big part of your life, and then you can come back and use the rest of the slots when you do come back.

Wed, 05/18/2016 - 02:50

#6265

Nizada

Numbers... >.<

I give up even looking at these numbers... Forget my numbers... My math skills are aperently not good enough for this business stuff... >.<

The point of this thread, which I were probably really bad at explaining with crappy numbers, and poor English skills(I'm not a native English speaker...). Is that trinkets is an important part of RPG's, and that many new players stop playing because they are not permanently accesible. Trinkets in SK is not effectively trinkets but boosts.
Advertising them the way they currently are fends off new players, and this game really needs new players....

Wed, 05/18/2016 - 10:09

#6266

Fangel

It used to make more sense with mist energy, as more things were temporary. Still, permanent slots would be as useful as the same amount of money you're willing to put forwards as is, thus making it kind of redundant.

If you tell a new player they have to buy slots they'll be turned off. Tell them they can pay a $10 yearly subscription fee that you can manually activate for one month periods at your leisure for access to trinket slots? Well yeah, that's how they work right now, just advertised differently.

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Permanent Trinket slot upgrades. And a few other suggestions