STRONG suggestion that I post here since suggestion thread is ignored that would bring back players without big efforts from dev
Tue, 10/02/2018 - 18:46
This thread aims Directly to Greay Havens, developers of this Beautiful game called: Spiral Knights.
Reason why Lockdown communty is Toxic, Obnoxious and Dead, causing players to leave the game unsatisfied: Auto Target.
Should I have to explain it? a CHEAT that makes you hit and combo on players WITHOUT Efforts and Skills.
Why there aren't tournaments anymore, good players and simply an active and HEALTHY community? Auto target.
--------
Latest update bringed us the Hazardous mode, which is literally Hardcore mode (Auto target disabled with traps on caps) but with Auto target enabled. Not only the traps are FAR from being FUN, also... why enabling auto target at all? I get spiral knights is a mmorpg focusing on PvE, bringing in lots of casual players that DOESN'T CARE about competition in PvP, still I don't get why after TONS of feedbacks from the community since years (I believe, I started playing just 1+ year ago), both Threerings and current Grey Havens doesn't care about removing a CHEAT from a PvP game. It's a Cheat, no excuses about lagging or being bad, it's just THE WORST feature that any PvP game could have. Even call of duty on consoles have a more light aim assist without a insane lock just like Auto Target on spiral knights does.
Please anyone from the Gray Havens reading this, just listen to this huge feeback from me and in name of many others from the current but mostly old lockdown players, DISABLE PERMANENTLY AUTO TARGET, removing it DOESN'T break anything, only makes thing better for everyone. More players, more active community, healthier community, more players also means more people spending money, it's a win win from every side you wanna look at it, there's nothing that can go wrong in disabling it permanently.
IF you guys are really THAT casual enough to rely too much on an Auto Aim, At least make the Hardcore Event something prefixed, as in EVERY weekend, without skipping any, for X hours you just enable the hardcore event which includes in disabling auto target, but make it something predictable, so people that are interested in it simply knows when to play. It's still a very bad choince compared to totally removing auto target from Lockdown, but at least it would be a little bit better. IT TAKES LOW EFFORT, if you are able to make hardcore and then hazardous, you're totally capable of doing what I'm saying. It wouldn't kill the community or anything, instead grow it up, and even if it doesn't grow, it would be simply be a healthy environment, thing that is for PvE and the rest of the game, Spiral knights has a pretty clean community. LAG isn't a excuse for using auto target, you can't lag in any online game and install goddamn third party cheats thinking it's fair because "I lag", NO EXCUSES, Just disable auto target, people (except the ones that doesn't care about pvp) wants this! Yes the balance is already bad with acheron having more damage than needed (fix is simply making the normal swings of it the same as the other brandishes, leaving ofc the charge intact since it's lacking of status) or the "new" blasters, or the pulsars. Auto target yet is the MAIN issue. Auto target in Lockdown, is a feature that is completely UNFAIR and that should be banned without exceptions.
>>> LOW EFFORT <<<< to disable permanently auto target or make hardcore event available every week for X hours or days. You guys can do it. Take your time, even months, but PLEASE MAKE THIS HAPPEN. Devs or community managers, let me know what do you think about it, don't stay mute, much appreciated.
I really wish with All of My Heart, that you guys at Grey Havens, understand what I'm talking about and embrace this very important and big feedback. You guys may think this is not anything of a big deal, but believe me, it is bigger than you may think.
- Sincerely, Top-Platinum, a player just like many others thinking in quitting because of a Cheat that kills skills and fun and wants to see a more peaceful, ACTIVE and healthy community.
Meme corner: inb4 comments saying that I'm crying meanwhile defending cheating.
Wed, 10/03/2018 - 01:56
#2
The latency argument
The latency argument unfortunately it is what it is, updates can't fix lag and worth mentioning that sk doesn't seem to have any kind of lag compensation (for example you never see players teleporting around, yet if you're the one lagging, you indeed see everything including yourself teleporting or looking at noticeable delay and missing registers), seems like the game is very server sided or something like this.
Wanna also add that my ping isn't the best in eu, and current active server (in term of players) is usa, so I end up having even worse ping, yet again, it's not a excuse for me to enable an auto aim and magically kill people around and maybe even brag about my damage (which nowdays doesn't even mean anything anymore since almost everyone do use auto target), even with annoying delay I can still adapt to it and fight versus legit players. But versus ill-minecraftboy-ill which ill is the equivalent of xXx, with me having worse ping, he can stun lock me and combo me in the most impossible and unfair ways. Keep in mind I'm complaining about auto target now, not even lag, lag you can't do anything about it, adapt, unless you got 1 bar or something, in that case you just can't play both Lockdown or any fast paced game AT ALL. Unless you just want tokens, but forget try harding in such conditions. One last thing, not even about lag, if you miss, you miss, that's it, no auto aim should help you in that.
If you play on any online pvp game, and YOU lag or playing for example on a laptop with touchpad, it's YOUR business, and we can't do anything about that. Noone does and noone ever will give you cheats for your issues in the options.
I will say it again, I'm not asking huge updates or anything, just disabling it for lockdown gamemode, which they already did with hardcore event, so it shows that they are ofc totally capable of doing this, again, low effort, and yet it would be a great update and news for so many people. After all, they want to make people happy and have a great time with their products.
About guns again this is what it is, even tho in this case it Could be fixed as issue, exactly making them somewhat less annoying or banning totally the pulsar line, but I'm pretty sure that it won't happens, no gun gonna get reworked or removed (unless out of nowhere grey havens surprise us). If it's about normal gunning so no pulsar spam or status spam from alchemers, then again it's your issue, it's basically your fault for not being able to counter and adapt to them, and even not using them at all (btw as "you" I don't mean directly to you, tpen) However I can understand people going striker, running and gunning even without auto target can be an annoying playstyle.
I guess this went a bit off-topic tho, basically if the deal is removing Auto target which makes some people "convert" into gunning more, sign me up still.
Hope you understand my point of view, even tho I saw you agreed already about my thread.
Wed, 10/03/2018 - 03:35
#3
I realize you're frustrated but use the suggestions forum. They read it there even if they don't really care too much what we think. If it were my game I'd take every suggestion with a grain of salt and also not care so there's that.
Wed, 10/03/2018 - 04:06
#4
needs moar splosions
the problem is that you're not using bombs, also if yah got bad lag or dont have top gear then just learn to bait people
Wed, 10/03/2018 - 04:23
#5
meow
I'm pretty sure when AT is removed the LD meta would just descend to the lowest it can be... I already see almost everyone who complains about AT use weapons that don't even require aiming like flourish single/double switching, sealed swords and pulsars.
Also, not finding the hazards on points fun is just your opinion, I personally dislike tye orbs cause I can never actually know where they are due to my latency so I run into them so often but all the others are fun to play around honestly.
Disabling AT would cause more harm than good, I currently can barely play without it, people with higher latencies have to put in ten times the effort for even less outcome than the lower latency players and AT reduces this to about eight to four times depending on whether you were good or not to begin with. Removing it just means removing the only way players at a disadvantage can be at less disadvantage. For a player with good latency though, AT barely matters since every shot hits where it lands, you don't have to predict, yes, AT makes this a little easier but not so much that it'd be gamebreaking except for Antiguas when used against higher latency players.
The only thing I do in this game currently is play LD but due to my bad latency I can only play decently with AT and still I don't stand a chance against AT or non-AT users who have very far ranges, I'm talking about 6-8 tiles with a flourish, AT only gives me a very little bit of chance to survive a couple more seconds and do a bit more damage against these guys before dying because it's impossible to kill them in a 1 on 1 anyway. So if AT was removed completely, I'd rather quit LD and possibly the game as that's the only thing I do currently.
Wed, 10/03/2018 - 08:15
#6
200 ping i can still play fine without AT
I get less retarded range hits when I AT is off.
Git Gud
Wed, 10/03/2018 - 10:00
#7
meow
I don't really care about anything anybody says, you can't argue with the fact that it's ridiculously harder to play against low ping players without AT and them using it doesn't have much to it. If you have that much ping and are actually good at the game, there are 6 possibilities...
1. You use macros.
2. Your PC compensates for latency so your ping won't matter anyway.
3. You're lying.
4. You always play against trash-tier players.
5. You perfectly realized the range of each player you play against and can perfectly and can predict the future so you place your gunshots a certain number of tiles ahead from where they're going and it differs from one player to another due to their different latencies as well.
6. You can predict when exactly are they gonna approach you and you dash before that by about 2 secs so you won't get your dash cancelled off-screen by some very low latency player.
So either you have to be a cheater, extremely lucky or a superhuman to be good with high ping but 200 ping isn't that high to begin with anyway. I would be happy if I had just 200 ping on USA server actually.
Wed, 10/03/2018 - 13:27
#8
Zero-Chill always defends
Zero-Chill always defends auto target with everything that comes in his mind, you're the reason lockdown is in the current status. Macro can be used almost everywhere, and you can't do anything against that.
Btw don't take everything off topic, leave the lag apart, this is about removing a cheat from lockdown, no excuse for saying it should be staying and being used. It won't cause any negative issue, only benefits. And whoever Really cares about lockdown knows it. Auto Aim is the worst feature for any PvP game, as I already said it's your issue if you lag, and enabling cheats for "compensating" it is just very silly.
Auto target kills competition.
Since grey havens made the change about the "event" calling it Hazardous, making a step behind, it should be the moment where you guys at GH make two step forward and do the right choince.
I literally want this also for the good of spiral knights, like I'm a parent towards my child.
Wed, 10/03/2018 - 13:43
#9
+1
If you listen to Zero-Chill, that means AT should stay in order to make high ping players go from being insta killed to being insta killed while getting 1-2 free hits in between the stun lock combo LOL.
The only reason people ever talk about nerfing Acheron is because it's OP paired with AT and because some people think the removal of AT will never happen. So let's drop that subject here.
I totally agree with the fact that auto target should be removed completely from Lockdown and there's no way that the meta could get any worse from the change.
Wed, 10/03/2018 - 15:51
#10
hey
I play... pretty much the same with with or without auto target. All no auto target does for me is makes me have to use only meta weapons and that's no fun.
Sure, I can play striker and die to a lower ping player in two hits because they have ASI VH and I don't, but sometimes I want to be that random recon with a cutter and I sure as heck can't do that with 100 ping and without auto target. Brandishes are already difficult enough without auto target when you have to compensate for lag.
Auto target doesn't change the game at all, outside of a very small niche of people who aren't even really playing that well in the first place. These are players who use ASI VH + combos on every attack, usually on fast weapons. This isn't AT making them better, it's just making them as dangerous as you would be if you had their gear.
Auto target isn't even really the problem. Have you ever fought against a similarly pinged player with and without auto target? It's basically the same fight regardless. It's only an issue with low pinged players, which points to the common factor being ping, not auto target. People complained about pulsar, so when pulsar was changed, they changed to something else. When AT is removed for hazardous hardcore more, people complained more about UVs and trinkets. It's a never-ending cycle.
Auto target gives players more barrier of entry without investment. Newby McNewface is going to have access to auto target, just like Scarred Veteran McGee over there, and taking that away from the new player will significantly nerf them while giving the veteran little to no change.
Personally, I'd love to see "lockdown events" like hazardous mode, hardcore mode, etc. on a rotation so that people can get what they want. It spices up the samey lockdown gameplay while not removing things permanently.
Wed, 10/03/2018 - 18:33
#11
Fangel touched on something that I think is rather important from a developer standpoint. Lockdown already has a VERY high barrier to entry. If you want to be vaguely competitive, you need things like heart trinkets and/or specialized loadouts. When you have a high barrier to entry in a PvP mode, the community devolves into a very small group of super devoted hardcore players constantly battling each other. For example, DayZ. Each time a new player tries to join, they're barely more than a speed bump. At best, they're going to spend their first few weeks getting steamrolled. At worst, they're going to last half a round and then never touch the mode again. Thus, you get almost no player retention, other than your devoted hardcore circle. If nothing happens, people naturally move on to other games, and the circle is going to slowly shrink.
Every time you pull away a crutch from new players, you're going to reinforce this sort of insular community. To quote Theirillusion: "If you listen to Zero-Chill, that means AT should stay in order to make high ping players go from being insta killed to being insta killed while getting 1-2 free hits in between the stun lock combo". You sorta need a method for the worst players to at least get a dang hit in once in a while. Otherwise they're just going to think "this is literally impossible for me to compete" and then abandon the mode. It's the same reason why CoD has the Noobtube. Even if it's just 1 kill in 20, you need the player to at least think that they can do something to you mad LD folks.
That said, I'm mostly a Recon. I'm just not fast enough to compete with most of you crazy strikers, so I use bombs, hammer+cloak and mind games. As a result, I haven't had any of those sort of insane rage moments that most of you guys seem to be experiencing. I'm still really confused as to why AT is considered an "unfair advantage" when literally every person who boots up the game has it on by default. In my eyes, that's like saying having a HUD is an unfair advantage.
You bring up some very important issues in your first post, but I find it genuinely mind-boggling that people seem to think said issues are entirely because of something as small as AT. Yes, having a dwindling and toxic community is bad. But to say AT is the source? Not the lack of variance encouraging an increasingly stagnant meta. Not the fact that things like heart trinkets give a blatantly unfair advantage to experienced players over newcomers, scaring away the majority of potential new additions to the LD community. Not the fact that Theirillusion casually implied that getting instantly killed due to lag with no way to retaliate is the way the game is suppose to play out. Not the fact that, when Zero-Chill says "I need this tool to compete," people's reaction is "well then you shouldn't be playing." No no no, AT is the most important issue. That is the hill worth dying on?
Sidenote: I also find it baffling that Theirillusion said the only reason people talk about nerfing the Acheron is because of AT in LD. Like... have you used the Acheron? Are you sure it's only because of AT in LD and not the Acheron itself?
As a final disclaimer, if you feel like the game is cheating you, that is not a good thing. It is 100% okay to say "This mechanic is causing me frustration and issues." Maybe GH needs to tweak the mechanics of AT, like adjusting the lock-on range, or reducing it's effectiveness when in close quarters. Because you guys are right: experienced players have learned how to really abuse AT + Acheron to a terrifying degree. I just think people have pinned WAAAY too much blame on AT.
Wed, 10/03/2018 - 20:02
#12
So at the end of the day you
So at the end of the day you both need auto target because you got no hands and eyes, meanwhile using a racing wheel for playing. I don't wanna make dramas and stuff, but you guys say so many excuses. Stop defending auto aim, there's no reason to. Literally just get good, without joking. Also if a newbie needs tokens, they just go capping. If a newbie wants to get into lockdown for real, they gotta follow some "rules" because game is what it is (as we all did as well), ofc it's pay to win, it's this and it's that, there tons of issues that could be addressed, but for whoever is interested for real in lockdown they would still integrate in the game after short time, buiyng the slots and crafting the trinkets etc aren't a issue. Disabling auto target would be the first and maybe last, yet easiest and effortless to do, fix for improving and making less cancerous lockdown, where fights makes sense instead of people randomly spamming attack hoping the game does all the work for them. Lockdown is also a game where you can die pretty quickly depending on the situation. If your combo or hit misses, you should get punished for that. I don't understand why you both are defending cheating and even saying that it's not cheating. Well I hope grey havens thinks deeper about it and finally realize what's good. If it's gonna happen, gonna be the best update for many players and no life changing for you, since you really don't care about lockdown. After all you still got the pulsars, status spam and other goodies that you can still apply... or simply starting improving. Just because the game is "broken" from many sides, doesn't mean we have to let lockdown die (nvm it already is), as I said tons of times, it's easy to disable it permanently, and it would be already a big step forward. If you are that bad then use easier weapons or simply go gunning, reading some stuff hurts me inside. It's a feature that gets abused and needs to be stopped. Whoever use auto target is indeed bad and easy to fight, still is boring to fight them, random hits and combos aren't fun. Also it would kill the divided community between "ATers and non ATers", finally.
Wed, 10/03/2018 - 20:22
#13
:/
Wow, people are still complaining about AT? AT exist in World of Tanks and no one cared.
AT in SK is just a tool, you either use it, or you don't, what is the big deal?
So at the end of the day you both need auto target because you got no hands and eyes, meanwhile using a racing wheel for playing. I don't wanna make dramas and stuff, but you guys say so many excuses. Stop defending auto aim, there's no reason to. Literally just get good, without joking
Hey guys I want to remove AT, just do what I say waaah!!! People like you are probably the reason why AT isn't removed in the first place. Stop trying to impose your vision on a game that belongs to all of us. Now go reflect in that corner along with Draycos (who wants to remove all RNG elements from SK).
Also it would kill the divided community between "ATers and non ATers", finally
Wouldn't remove AT divide the existing LD player base further? I am pretty sure people who use AT will simply leave and go play World of Tanks, where AT is never complained about (since everyone can use it with a left click), and they can use it when they are playing fast moving tanks, shooting close targets while focus on driving.
Wed, 10/03/2018 - 20:51
#14
"Wouldn't remove AT divide
"Wouldn't remove AT divide the existing LD player base further?"
divide in what.
also it's ok to disagree, still banning auto target is the best thing that GH could do. I mean, every auto target user just like you are commenting on this thread, it's just sad to see such status of the community. If you don't care about lockdown again, seeing auto target disabled wouldn't change you anything. But there's people that do care and there's a reason if people have been "fighting" against it, and many just stopped because threerings just didn't care and it was a lost hope. Look at lyrose and theirillusion in this thread, they're veteran and skilled players and ofc agrees that auto target is one of the worst features. Now since GH have been making those lockdown events, there's still a chance to revive part of it and revive the competitive side of it.
Btw world of tanks is a total different game and it's pretty casual as well, quoting that game doesn't justify out of nowhere the auto target on lockdown.
And I just end it there since explaining further the obvious seems useless for few of you. I just hope GH read the thread and thinks more seriously about it.
Wed, 10/03/2018 - 20:59
#15
I mean, every auto target
I mean, every auto target user just like you are commenting on this thread, it's just sad to see such status of the community.
People disagree with me makes me sad waaah! Cry me a river, I have already said, SK belongs to all of us. Why do you see LD as something separate from the whole? If you want to play a game with no AT, go play COD.
But there's people that do care and there's a reason if people have been "fighting" against it, and many just stopped because threerings just didn't care and it was a lost hope.
Ooooor, they just realized, like me, that AT is just a feature in the game, a tool they can either use or discard.
So they have either:
-Sucked it up and play but stand by not using AT
-Go play another game with no AT in it
No one is forcing you to not use AT, and in the end this is a game, if you hate AT that much, just go play another game with no AT, why even get so hung up on this dying game? Let alone its even deader competitive scene?
Btw world of tanks is a total different game and it's pretty casual as well, isn't an excuse for again defending auto target on lockdown
Casual? Oh just type in "artillery in WoT" and see how many people like yourself are raging over an aspect of a game, complaining about a feature that belongs in a game, thinking they can do no wrong and see removing them as the only way to make the game better.
And I just end it there since explaining further the obvious seems useless for few of you.
The feeling here is mutual buddy.
I just hope GH read the thread and thinks more seriously about it.
Hope, hope is ALWAYS the first step on the road to disappointment.
Wed, 10/03/2018 - 23:34
#16
meow
What Fangel and Midnight-Dj said are so true, you can't even argue with it, AT makes little to no difference to low ping players but a big difference to the higher ping ones same for experienced vs not as experienced players of the same ping range. It exists for a reason, LD is a fast paced mode and it's pretty hard when due to latency you never actually know where your opponent is except when they stand completely still, so having AT makes a HUGE difference for me.
Regarding Acheron and AT, actually only experienced players with very little latency can be as ridiculously powerful with AT Acheron as you say. A few of these people are Pawsmack, Lost-Incarnation and Swordofomen. They are only good with it in the first place due to their low latency not because they use AT, when I use Acheron, my hits don't even land at point blank, I have to "race" to get in front of my enemy by 1-3 tiles and hit them with it except when they're standing still which makes it more of a burden than the fated destruction tool you're referring to.
You can't really just take away the crutches that laggers or noobs use to help them with this very fast paced mode where they are already at a disadvantage, you don't have to be very rich to be able to enjoy LD. People don't just play it to get tokens then never touch that mood again, I used to do this when I was still new (before I knew I could turn on AT as I didn't know it even existed) I was just crafting a weapon then getting the hell outa there, then my friend suggested I play again at first I was so against it because of the very high competitive requirements then I said why don't give it a try then I just started my LD career with mindlessly double swinging Divine Avenger and it actually worked so well that I thought "this mode isn't as bad as I thought, I think I'll stick around for a while". Most other people would not be as patient as me, I did badly almost every game because Divine Avenger was the only weapon I could use in LD as all the others were being outranged and it was slow as hell, especially cause I didn't have any ASI. I don't really like going over that experience again nor I want anyone to go through it. And AT helps with that.
In short, removing AT would encourage the old more experienced players in the little latency ranges to come back more regularly while discouraging new people from getting into the mode in the first place and will result in leaving a lot of people with high latency this mode completely.
If GH listened to you though and actually removed AT, LD would just have more people spamming hazes, pulsars and only using heavy swords than not and it'd just become VERY stale and VERY unfun to play.
Thu, 10/04/2018 - 02:17
#17
I haven't read any of this thread yet, but it should be noted that the best players continue to obliterate the competition with or without AT. This isn't just me talking out of my ass, it's an actual fact. Throughout all the hardcore weekends, not once have I seen the previous average joes skyrocket in damage or performance. Meanwhile, those who have been dishing out 25k+ for years continue to do so even if they regularly used AT. People literally complain about AT because it's the easiest thing to blame when you are frustrated and are being outplayed.
EDIT: Fangel with that good shit. (._. )y
As for Top-Plat, I issue a challenge to you to prove your own point. Apparently, AT is so broken and auto-win that even a caveman can use it and be a pro, so this should be easy. If you can dish out 30k damage with AT against any 20k+ averaged player by October 12th, 2018, I'll give you 45ke. With AT, this should be easy peasy. Good luck.
Thu, 10/04/2018 - 03:23
#18
Sorry but I'm not a loser,
Sorry I'm not a failure but a honest player, thing most of the players in this thread aren't.
Hilarious that my thread attracted all the cry babies ATers btw.
Wait, what happened to this thread, it was supposed to be about a suggestion straight toward grey havens...
with this mentality lockdown gonna die even more with time, I just hope the GH staff is smarter.
well, /closed
Thu, 10/04/2018 - 10:06
#19
woof
just admit that your suggestion is bad
Thu, 10/04/2018 - 13:28
#20
Have not read all posts since my last, but @Traevelliath I mean in Lockdown ofc. In pve it's op af lol with or without at
Thu, 10/04/2018 - 13:51
#21
My offer is still on the table until the given date. This is your chance to prove your argument true; if a nobody can do the damage of a god while using AT, I think you will have successfully proved everyone wrong. Eagerly awaiting your video response.
Thu, 10/04/2018 - 21:32
#22
for PvE you can use auto
for PvE you can use auto target without issues, nobody cares about that one xd so yeah.
@Strayed-Faris Seems like you didn't read anything or simply you didn't understand anything /sad
Rip, this community is filled of casuals. My expetations were higher. Yet disabling it is a great news for players that actually care about lockdown. Why are they even replying in cringy ways and and f****d up logic opinions, thread was just a open letter to GH. It's noticeable that they don't care about PvP yet they open mouth. For saying that auto target isn't cheating and that it should stay, randomass challenge involving in using auto target and hit X damage thinking it means something followed by saying the suggestion is bad I can't think of anything else but a single word to describe that... better I don't say it, family friendly forum. I swear these people are the same kind that would cheat in every context if they got chance to. The best thing that could happen is GH simply disabling it or bringing back Constantly the hardcore event ignoring all the noobies that needs an auto aim in term of hit at least once another player so they can feel decent.
Second option is still standing there, bringing back the hardcore event in a predictable way. Get rid of hazardous, it was such a downgrade.
Thu, 10/04/2018 - 22:00
#23
Remember, don't shoot food.
I dunno, your childish behavior is making me want them to keep AT if anything.
Thu, 10/04/2018 - 22:59
#24
woof
@Top-Platinum
okay, but you haven't done anything to prove them wrong and, no, shouting hubris and GODDAMN IT CASUALS isn't an argument.
Thu, 10/04/2018 - 23:38
#25
+1
even if i dont care anymore still +1 but wont ever happen its just like a dream btw just ignore them, theyre shit. either you play vs aters or you quit as sad it may sound
Strayed-Faris he did explain everything also its not hard to understand at is cancer
Fri, 10/05/2018 - 02:31
#26
woof
meh, i guess one-liners aren't my forte.
his entire point is that using AT is cheating, and everyone using it is a dishonest, weak, casual that should git gud
[quote @Top-Platinum]:
> Should I have to explain it? a CHEAT that makes you hit and combo on players WITHOUT Efforts and Skills.
> Wanna also add that my ping isn't the best in eu, and current active server (in term of players) is usa, so I end up having even worse ping, yet again, it's not a excuse for me to enable an auto aim and magically kill people around and maybe even brag about my damage (which nowdays doesn't even mean anything anymore since almost everyone do use auto target), even with annoying delay I can still adapt to it and fight versus legit players.
> If you play on any online pvp game, and YOU lag or playing for example on a laptop with touchpad, it's YOUR business, and we can't do anything about that. Noone does and noone ever will give you cheats for your issues in the options.
> Btw don't take everything off topic, leave the lag apart, this is about removing a cheat from lockdown, no excuse for saying it should be staying and being used.
[/quote]
This was his first mistake.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/cheat
cheat
1 [no object] Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage.
‘she always cheats at cards’
the developers added AT to the game, everyone has access to AT, everyone can use AT. no one is reverse engineering, hacking or modding SK to get access to AT. therefore, using AT is not cheating, but people voluntarily choose not to use it; this is called voluntarily handicapping yourself. you folks are just upset that people aren't doing what you do.
this is like voluntarily going into a boxing match while wearing handcuffs and then crying zomfg CHEATER because the other boxer isn't wearing handcuffs. yes, fighting with handcuffs on is an interesting concept. yes, it's a great display of skill. But have you considered that the other players don't want to fight with handcuffs on? and why should they fight with handscuffs on just because you said so?
Also, there is this bit:
@Top-Platinum: Auto target kills competition.
Provided to us with no evidence whatsoever. I have played several games that feature auto-aiming and I have seen PVP matches happen in them anyways. Good examples of this would be World of Warcraft and its clones, the Armored Core series and pretty much any 2D fighting game. But I guess all of those games are cancer because all you have to do is press buttons, oy voy.
Additionally, people have pointed out that AT isn't as broken as this thread/OP exaggeratedly claims, but @Top-Platinum says that it is, and when challenged to prove it, he bails out. it's almost as if he knows he's wrong.
tl;dr= OMFG THOSE DAMNED CASUALS
edit: my typos are the casual's fault
Fri, 10/05/2018 - 03:34
#27
Gotta admit I got triggered a
Meme corner: inb4 comments saying that I'm crying meanwhile defending cheating.
Not a meme anymore.
What can I prove? That your aim gets corrected by a certain degree so you hit enemies easier and since it keeps tracking the whole time you can even combo without actual skill and effort. With guns instead, you gotta stop for making it track the enemy, but if you go striker it's still stupidly powerful, counting the new blasters deals so much damage. If a strong, and not even light, aim correction on a PvP for PC is not cheating for you, then I have no idea how to change your mind and I don't even care anymore at this point. Instead of missing you still hit. Instead of comboing in a smart way and in the right moment, instead especially with the right trick, you can without issues just combo the sh*t out of them without failing. If that's competitive for you... I repeat and I understand that Spiral Knights is a goddamn mmorpg and people didn't even started playing this for the PvP, still it's a gamemode that do require skills, as well the game itself. Currently lockdown (and I believe since forever in random team matches) is just a circlejerk of random UNWANTED hits and some people that are a bit better yet they abuse auto target for avoiding to miss. Yeah not a cheat, right? It's totally fair in your mind, right? Also again if you don't care or you're neutral towards Lockdown, this thread shouldn't even interest you, unless you totally rely on auto target and don't want it to go away (since also I never saw you in any lockdown match). BUT HERE is where you're falling... Spiral knights isn't just like any other "2D" view game, you move and aim BY YOURSELF. You should know it if you play... this is also the reason why spiral knights is unique in the world. For you auto target is fine? Alright good to know. I'm not here for forcing you into anything, as well as few others of you. If you understand, great. If you don't, I can't do anything else. Either you get it or not. Also as you can see the veteran players just like theirillusion and lyrose that have been playing lockdown since forever, doing tournaments and so on, Understand what I'm talking about, and they agreed because they know the game and knows what the word competition or better, Fair Play means. Fair Play is definitely the best definition here. Have a nice day.
If this time isn't the good time, then 100% we'll never see auto target in lockdown banned or the hardcore event coming back. That hazardous event seems more like a replacement. I mean, when they introduced the Hardcore event I didn't seen ANYONE complaining about Auto target being disabled, now I do this thread and people randomly starts attacking me trying to prove me wrong. Well, my hope is still there.
Fri, 10/05/2018 - 03:55
#28
1 Bar Perspective
This is an interesting thread that I'd like to comment on from a pure 1 bar perspective
I don't think AT is a "cheat" but I despise the use of AT by EXPERIENCED players in LD. I myself have shit talked so many AT users back in the day and though I've reduced that I still do from time to time. I fluctuate between 400-600 ping(from Asia here) but I don't use AT and neither do any of my guildies from Lepak(Mostly everyone is 1 bar here with the exception of less than 5). I don't get why players who avidly play LD, have the best UVs as well as really low ping have to add on AT to their list *cough* Enrage *cough*. I wont say these players are "skilless" because its not like they can't play without AT. They surely can mainly because of their low ping. Take that away and I think the story changes drastically. Many days I'm not getting outplayed but outpinged/ranged but as I said before its not like these players don't have skill without AT. Also I use the word "experienced" because its not always about ping and really sometimes it can be just about AT. I believe Thayl(Stormrage) hits around 600-1000 ping and even with that can hit 30k's purely because of his ATcheron spam. I think AT is okay if you're new to LD and are trying to get to know PVP in SK. I welcome the influx of new players and love seeing new players!... only to see them get ATcheroned to death when they barely step out of base. Its no surprise new people don't want to play LD. So I don't think its fair to completely ban AT mainly for the new players that step into LD. For the experienced players who use it I've got no comment, it's a disgrace to your own skill level and you ruin games ^^.
Also to Manlet not to start a war or anything but damage means nothing. Even if I get 4 bars and single digit ping at most my damage would be a consistent 20k from my now consistent about 10-15k. It would just provide me an avenue to average 15 caps per game since that's what I do. This is an opinion ofc capping is something I barely see these days and so is the mindset to win games rather than dmg farming
Fri, 10/05/2018 - 05:01
#29
yo
as someone that has been constantly killing 25k+ dmg average noobs easily while they were ATing I can tell they really need it to stand a chance, so I don't mind if it's removed or not
like, come on, it's like taking the orthopedic arms of people that were born armless
Fri, 10/05/2018 - 05:32
#30
woof
@Top-Platinum: HERE is where you're falling... Spiral knights isn't just like any other "2D" view game, you move and aim BY
YOURSELF.
what the-- lol, what
armored core looks like this, it's isn't 2D. Additionally, the AC series (down to it's PS1 games) has more depth than this game will ever be able to deliver, all while doing 90% of the aiming for it's players. If FromSoftware can make an interesting and fun series with auto-target included, I don't see what's stopping GH or any game company from doing the same. And I'm pretty sure WoW isn't 2D either, and you know this.
But of course, AT in SK is different than AT in WoW and the AC series, but that doesn't invalidate my point. My point remains that an auto-targeting system, with the right tweaks and mechanics, can be a part of a competitive game. And you have yet to prove otherwise.
> Understand what I'm talking about, and they agreed because they know the game and knows what the word competition or better, Fair Play means.
Keep shifting goal posts, but know that it doesn't prove you any of your points.
And sorry, bro, just because some people agree with you doesn't automatically mean you're right. Even popular opinions and the opinions of authority figures can be wrong.
> If a strong, and not even light, aim correction on a PvP for PC is not cheating for you, then I have no idea how to change your mind and I don't even care anymore at this point. Instead of missing you still hit. Instead of comboing in a smart way and in the right moment, instead especially with the right trick, you can without issues just combo the sh*t out of them without failing.
I'll just leave these links here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMKHC0dlF30
https://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/93931
> I mean, when they introduced the Hardcore event I didn't seen ANYONE complaining about Auto target being disabled, now I do this thread and people randomly starts attacking me trying to prove me wrong. Well, my hope is still there.
it's because you're acting like an edgy memelord
> Currently lockdown (and I believe since forever in random team matches) is just a circlejerk of random UNWANTED hits and some people that are a bit better yet they abuse auto target for avoiding to miss
random unwanted hits? da fuq? so, you want it so that no player can ever hit you? well, if that's the case, then just ban all weapons
keep digging that grave, fam
dig it real good
Fri, 10/05/2018 - 06:00
#31
Glazing over this discussion, I saw someone mentioning From Software, and that got me thinking. I made two google searches.
"Dark Souls pvp lock-on"
Checking every link on the first page leads me to some mellow discussions about PvP in Dark Souls and whether or not to use lock-on in it. The general concensous is "It depends on the weapon, sometimes lock-on is not an advantage and you can be more efficient without it". I saw no comments angry at people using it or discouraging it for any other reason .
Just to be sure, I did a second query.
"Spiral Knights pvp auto-target"
The general consensous from these links formed "please die in a fire, you useless worm".
From this I can only draw the conclusion that everyone who plays Dark Souls must be really bad at videogames, not fit to growel in the shadows of the athletic champions who play lockdown.
Fri, 10/05/2018 - 06:22
#32
@Chaotic-Divinity
I believe
@Chaotic-Divinity
I believe Thayl(Stormrage) hits around 600-1000 ping and even with that can hit 30k's purely because of his ATcheron spam.
WHAT?! Thayl got ridiculous range, there's no way he has 600-1000ms lmao, I have around 300ms and he hits me from 4-6 tiles with Acheron, dude, there's just no way.
Fri, 10/05/2018 - 07:09
#33
confession
I have no idea what "ping," "tiles," and "ms" mean, honestly.
Oh, and Hi Beached-Whale. You are fun and funny-looking. We should play together more often. That sucking noise, though . . .
Fri, 10/05/2018 - 10:11
#34
Ping: The time it takes to signal the server and back
Ms: Milliseconds, 1/1000th of a second
Tiles: The in game unit of measurement referring to the literal floor tiles found in game
I had a good time playing with you too Mawa... and I'm not funny looking! Also for "sucking noises" I just need to heat pollinator.. why? Because I'm a completionist or something. I don't know. It's not like the weapon will become worth using with 2 more levels of heat on it but who knows, maybe they'll rework it.
Sat, 10/06/2018 - 02:37
#35
There's quite a lot of people in here who are all bark and no bite. The event has started. Time to put your money where your mouth is. Try not to disappoint. :)
Sun, 10/07/2018 - 01:40
#36
I queued for lockdown and as
I queued for lockdown and as soon the match started there was a message in chat saying: "Diehard mode is activated! Auto target is off." or something like this. Well, now THIS IS SOMETHING. Probably this event just comes on and off randomly, just like hardcore sometimes did, but also it doesn't have traps. Definitely a welcomed thing. Actually seems like they killed hardcore for making hazardous and diehard "modes". Still far from the real objective, but still Great Job, Grey Havens. Even tho I think you did this BEFORE this thread.
Still, the community will stay like it is now btw.
Sat, 10/06/2018 - 21:33
#37
wolver barking intensifies
so
still no video evidence of a total eggplant destroying lockdown with auto target and randomly spamming everything without talent, plan or forethought?
i'm sorry, i don't want to act like a jerk, but i really doubt anyone likes me, and honestly, you're just asking to made fun off
Sun, 10/07/2018 - 01:40
#38
I'll move this to graveyard
I'll move this to graveyard since Grey Havens already did what they wanted to do and I doubt they gonna do anything further, and enough bs from some people has already been said, and strayed was the number one in that while also not understanding anything at all! Congrats buddy.
It's rlly frustating to get combo'd easily to death and there's no way to avoid it... ppls with high pings+slow net like me and other ppls from PH are much more susceptible to get hits/combos. Ppls with a good ping who uses acheron+good asi+AT is the most notable for this.
I usually play as a gunslinger and I never use AT even when I'm using swords. The only time I use AT is when I'm just having fun with callahan+grave switch shooting which still requires timing and luck to land a hit even with AT.
It really sux for me to get dmg since I have to hit the space 3-4 tiles infront of a moving target with an alchemer shot and to do that I have to position my aim 6-7 tiles infront of a moving target and I really felt its extremely unfair... Another problem when I'm using GF, each hit will cancel my swing due to rubberbanding caused by latency, and its possible to get me locked on a spot to death. This would likely more happen when my opponent is an ATer since avoiding the next following swings after getting hit by initial swing is almost impossible even if I dash or boost away. I would get rubberband back and take 2 or more swings.
I think removing AT would decrease the disadvantage of red bar players. I got 3 guildmates who are used to be active LD players before but they are also from PH and we got slow internet and high ping and all of them quit. We don't have much room for improvements, like 10-15k dmg on LD is already our 100%. One of them said that he only wants to play with fellow red bar players and not with good ping ppls who can benefit more with AT.
But removing AT permanently might also have some disadvantages. During no AT weekends, more ppls will play gunner and multiple bullets (mostly alchemer shots) and especially those annoying polagaris bullets crossing all over the screen would cause major lags.