This is my first time playing this event since i came back to the game and after multiple hours spamming the same level i realized that the spawn rate is just absurd and is no surprise that many players are just using alts or duping levels, if GH wants to make the game appealing for a new audience then things cannot be this way, yes i know there needs to be some grinding but this is not it, its actually insane, i dont think it would be hard to up the spawn chance and drop rate of these books before making the event active
Black Kat spawn and droprates needs a rework
I ran for 50 minutes yesterday before I found one singular Kat, skipping any optional combat. After that I uninstalled spiral knights and decided to do something more fulfilling like staring at the wall or practicing stage 4 of Espgaluda.
If we extremely generously assume you find a Kat every 15 minutes, an average of 62 hours of pure dungeon running goes into half a chance of finding a book. Think about how else you could enjoy videogames during that time.
Haha so, heres some fun math.
Black kats are 1/90 normal kats. This means on average youll need to encounter 90 normal kats before you see a single black kat. A book of dark rituals drops 1/250 black kats. Doing some quick math, thats 0.000044% chance each kat encountered will be a black kat that drops a book.
That means on average, youll need to encounter 22,727 kats on average until you get a book of dark rituals. Even with that, there are TONS of people who get books. Tons of margrel runs you can buy into for black kat cloak/hoods, and tons of black kat cowls being traded/sold.
Sure you could get 3 alts, which would mean you only need to encounter 3,246 kats, which is much more reasonable, but its an MMO. Its a grind. Youre not meant to get a book in a day. The pages dont expire, so youre meant to save them up across multiple events.
Dont grind this event with the purpose of finding a book. Play a few levels until you get bored, or just keep running vana to buy black kat gear/margrel slots. There will always be people who can stand to grind 8 hours a day with 3 alts and theyll get 2 or 3 books and brag about it.
Im going to correct you on the math
(1/90)x(1/250)=0.004
that is not good...
also "This means on average youll need to encounter 90 normal kats before you see a single black kat." THIS is a lie, you can run into 27000 kats and none would be a black kat... That "on avertage" happens when you face an Infinite numbers of kats whis is not emotionally comforting I guess.
"keep running vana to buy black kat gear/margrel slots" this also contributes to the problem, the event is bad so others do it "I get crowns to pay for it..." Zeddy pointed out that the secondary market for the "black kat" is equally heinous than the event itself and is honest about it and realistic, besides being true, having a secondary market shous the horrible state of the event, because the speed-running meta-chasing elitist mentality, that drives everyone into the "I need max everything on my load-out".
We need to have all the events re-checked and some severely overhauled keeping player service as primary focus. that's on development side.
We need to stop chasing "meta" cookie cuted loadouts, and start suggesting "have fun with friends". that's on players side.
@Witelite
Choosing not to play the event and instead subsidizing other players who slave away (and multiply their droprates with an exploit) is wise advice for triaging the symptoms of this event being terrible; nonetheless, the winning move being to completely ignore the event to buy slots and materials from people dumb enough to grind it is a very sad thing to have to say in conjunction and illustrates how poorly structured it is even by MMO best-in-slot grind standards.
"You're not meant to get a book in a day. The pages don't expire, so you're meant to save them up across multiple events." The average player isn't meant to find their very own book, period, at the current rates. The pages have nothing to do with acquiring a book since they cannot be exchanged for one. They're used for the 3* hoods (x50 for non-BK, x70 for BK), for Kat Tribe Fetishes (x50), and for the new Shrouded Crest shield costume (x90). Resold equipment like the 3* hoods and fetishes both being cheap is a byproduct of the book being a requirement for everything past the 3* hoods.
Let's set aside the FOMO psychology of it being a time-limited event with several months between appearances, all of the hullabaloo around it being best-in-slot equipment, and Margrel being wasted content. Let's assume the player is fully informed this is an unhealthy anti-gameplay grind with no pity system, is willing to buy their BKC/Raiment off of someone else wasting literal weeks of their life book-hunting, and thus only wants their own Shrouded Crest which cannot be traded by any means, can very optimistically find a BK every 15 minutes, and does the prestige mission each day of the event, in this case 10 days where the longest the event has run is 14 days. Say the next one is 14 days, too. From fixed rewards, that requires nearly perfect attendance in both runs in order to get the 90 tokens required of the S.Crest - or in the span of this 10 day run, 50 tokens' worth of natural BK spawns.
50/3 rounded up to 17 with 15 minute gaps between BK spawns is still over four hours of not actually playing the game - and that theoretical 15 minutes is pulling a lot of weight, since we're assuming the player is unusually lucky and extremely efficient with their Weight of Darkness / Alone in the Dark restarts. In natural gameplay where the player isn't pulling out all the stops, like a full T3 arcade run that'll spawn maybe one BK on average, this is going to be much slower. This is also completely ignoring the time taken to do the Prestige Missions themselves which have terrible payout from normal drops as they end at D26 and a good chunk of the enemies in the special final fight don't drop anything at all, let alone pages/books. Compare and contrast with Apocrea which is also a slog but has plenty of late-T3 arenas and fairly consistent progress, Tortodrones which have RNG on Ancient Shells for no reason but are roughly set up to be comparable to normal weapon recipe costs if you're partying up for them, and Grinchlin Assault where the hyper-rare drop is a trinket that's strong but not exactly BIS.
What a mess. I have something of a grudge with this event what with it becoming astronomically worse to play the very next run after the game's lead developer went off to make video games instead of grooming gambling addicts into the game's twilight years. Went from a neat social event with big tuning problems to an exceedingly antisocial one with massive problems. This is THE event that made me distrustful of late OOO and GH by extension since it marked a big shift in development philosophy, not just monetization. Was similarly annoyed by the Slime Casino being GH's literal first move after reacquiring it from SEGA but that's its own can of worms and I admittedly wouldn't really give a fig about it if not for it holding an MSI trinket hostage as a 'jackpot.' I'm disappointed nothing's changed so far outside of a couple of bones thrown with the Forge and OCH.
anyway, that's my soapboxing for the morning. There's a suggestions thread up that you might find some camaraderie in, Azur-MMXXVI: https://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/125458
I had some insane stretch of luck yesterday where I found a Kat on 4 Alone in the Dark runs in a row, and I think 7 or 8 in about 10 runs total. I can only assume those were the last Kat spawns I'll see for the rest of the event.
Damn that critique is rough.
Maybe SK wants to be like osrs. Alt abusing and farming insanely rare items is done there, as well as many other MMOs. Im just giving alternatives to spending hours slamming your head against endless kats. Youre much more likely to enjoy your time if you farm/sell stuff and buy the 3* cloak and 5* cowl.
Definitely not a fan of how vacuous the book of dark rituals is, i wish theyd make it for sale for like 1k tokens or something. That, or make black kats encounterable even when the event isnt going, albiet at like a 1/500 chance or something. The only good thing is so many people are farming for them this year, their price is very likely to drop. Plus with margrel slots going for what, 150kcr, its somewhat affordable to get the 3* armors, which are absolutely viable to play endgame content with.
It definitely needs some work as an event, but its grey havens, changing an event past adding a cosmetic shield is too much work for them.
I just find solace in the fact that the 5* armor isn't worth grinding anyway. For the Black Kat set, the 3* armor is stronger for most purposes due to how the 1-hp mechanic works, since it has the same status resistances and attack/speed boosts regardless and less defense is benefiical. I imagine the price is mostly due to the rarity of it, but aside from being a collector's piece there's not really any use case for it anymore.
The game doesn't really have enough content to afford letting something be so useless that you don't mind it's one-out-of-one-billion droprate
My name is Zeddy and I'd like to go on runs with new friends. I typically like to challenge difficult bosses such as margel and often greet new friends with a $5 steam game or $5 in steam wallet currency. None of this is a trade as far as the systems of spiral knights is concerned I'm just going on a few runs with a few new friends.
@Jedwell Excluding certain damage sources like traps and blast blocks, max health and defense haven’t visibly influenced how consistently last pip protection triggers for me. There’s a rumor going around it’s tied to a percentage of your max health, but I’ve had it trigger while pixels above 1 pip. Do you know if anyone has formally studied it?
@Orangeo completely agree; there’s a handful of cases of this across the game, not just things like non-BK raiments. Would be nice if it were at least sane to acquire like the hats were on launch (no whiskers, far less pages)
@Zeddy this got me thinking; “Margrel slots” may be seen as unenforceable, but you know what else is totally legal? Inviting three of your alts. I really don’t think it’s a coincidence there are more 3* kat armors on the market than people willing to sell their slots lol
Isn't it so great that mmo-s are supposed to be social, ya know..... play with your friends, hang out and have fun?
Well in spiral knights people are forced to pick between almost quadrupling their chances at dropping the book by being antisocial and farming with their alts versus playing with their friends :)
I personally chose the only winning move, which is to not play the event.
@Draycos
I've been running around with 3* Black Kat for a while now and I have never had it fail to trigger for me since, except when picking up a high hp vitapod (Which is why I skip them these days). It's definitely related to how much relative damage an attack does to you, and my current estimate from the above is that the hit needs to do roughly 25% of your hp in order for the protection to trigger, but that's still quite vibe based.
Where do these numbers for the Black Kat conversation rate and the book drop chance come from? What is the source of these?
Can you please give a link to your source?
I am especially curious about the drop chance for the book.
And most importantly about 3 main questions:
1. Is the book drop chance affected by difficulty?
2. Is the book drop chance affected by floor depth?
3. Does the conversation rate of Black Kats itself change with difficulty or depth?
The wiki does only give an assumption based on a forum post in which Fehzor makes another assumption.
The forum post in question is from 2013, but it is the only one linked on the Black Kat Event's wiki page.... do we have a more up-to-date knowledge about the numbers behind?
Hope you can help me with my questions...
Here is the wiki link:
https://wiki.spiralknights.com/Kataclysmic_Confrontation
And here is the link from the 2013 forum thread about drop rates:
https://forums.spiralknights.com/de/node/87498
I can only offer rumor to you, I'm sorry, but according to other long-time players this information was gained from either some kind of leak or datamining expedition long in the game's past. I don't see any reason to believe they weren't valid at one point but I also have no cause to assure you that they're relevant today - presently all we have left are people sharing their grievances for how few kats they've encountered and (of them,) how few have dropped ritual tomes.
I wish the kat tribe armor didn't required the wicked Wisker to be crafted, just like the cowls (except the black kat)
so players can at least complete a set and not just go empty handed, because the book is not guaranteed for anybody
or if those sets are always gonna be that expensive, they should buff them, and make all of those low bonuses medium
so they can become a decent choice at least.
but anyways, gear balance very soon, not sure when, not sure if its true, but we can only hope.
First, thanx for your answer.
But as someone who is curious about where informations came from and how relieable a source is, your reply leaves me unsatisfied unfortunally.
Since - as you stated - it is just another rumor and hearsay.
And on top, the rates itself do not answer all my questions.
So the source would be useful, in hope that there is more to find an learn about the nittigritti.
If I may also add a complaint here, I did get exactly 1 book in 13 years of Black Kat events.
So I am kinda looking forward for some way to be able to improve my chances of obtaining one. Because in my opinion I should be able to get at least a 2nd book in 13 years ;)
Jenova sorry to tell you this, but, there is not a reliable source for most of the game, because the original developers went "Trust me bro" 99% of the time, most of the information on the wiki even was gathered thru excruciating gameplay... by the community in specific a bunch of masochistic nerds a.k.a Probably some of the nicest persons you could fin in the game.
So no I'm still asking for comprehensive and sensible patch notes... so...
Sadly, Jcyrano is completely correct. We also have a lot of reports across the community of tweaks being made historically without any announcement, and the results of those tweaks have only become clear as either the result of community-wide datagathering procedures or at the pressing of GMs on what exactly has been changed.
This isn't to say that the information is completely valueless - but while I am keen to say "all values should be considered guidelines only as their accuracy can't be validated," it also can't be conclusively ruled out. The community does try very hard to determine what the drop odds are by keeping spreadsheets, and (anecdotally though it may be) I just yesterday encountered a player who keeps a running total of kats encountered and books dropped.
As you've seen, from your own personal experience, they are extraordinarily rare drops. Present supposition is that the odds are very slim, whatever they happen to be, and overall the community is dissatisfied with it... but beyond that, I'm truly sorry - there doesn't seem to be a good way to give you concrete facts.
Update: I hopped into Haven 4 just now to see if anyone had any data to share but got pretty much no reply, sadly? I can't say I want to make a habit of doing that so you might have to look deeper into the forum's past to get more info.
It's funny, my friend and I have been running the daily missions together, and even though Purr Terror is easily the best one to rerun we didn't have time to do so yesterday. So of course that means that we found three Black Kat spawns in the final level. The sad part is that my friend has been keeping a tally of the number of Spookats he's seen between each Black Kat, and he was well below average before that one floor got him back up to the reported 1-in-90 rate.
Double post.