Spiral Knights - So.. how about some proper figures for us, OOO Devs? :3

So.. how about some proper figures for us, OOO Devs? :3

16 replies [Last post]

Mon, 06/27/2011 - 04:14

Watermelon-Soda

I'm sure EVERYONE would appreciate it if proper numerical figures for a lot of things were announced)

Such as: (* On the ones I think Devs should do... very easy yet it would be so helpful)
- How much is every point of UV worth on each type of UV? *
- What is the actual chance of "it" happening when theres a "Fair chance", "Good Chance" etc. *
- What is the formula for how long certain types of fire burn you for and how much damage per tick? (and the formulas for other conditions too)
- How much attack do weapons ACTUALLY have?
- How much defence does armor ACTUALLY have?
- Which attacks deal split damage and which ones don't, and how is is the split damage split? Eg; 60% Normal 40% Shadow for this attack..
- What are the actual chances of a UV? And what are the chances of a Low, Medium, High, Very High and Maximum respectively? *
- How much hp does each enemy have?
- How much damage does each enemy attack deal?

I also think it would be logical if Ultra UVs could be crafted on Armor.

I already know this is asking for way too much, but please at least consider doing the * ones please :(

Mon, 06/27/2011 - 05:59

Madadder

you do know that damage

you do know that damage amounts and armor defense/hp boost differ from tier to tier right? numerical values are meaningless in this case

10% roughly is the chance of a UV happening but as to the percentage of low, med, high goes i dont know

Mon, 06/27/2011 - 06:07

Awesomest

Legacy Username

Why?

Not everything has to be handed out on a silver platter just for you; part of the game is to figure this out by ourselves, and there are people that actually DO enjoy researching it.

Don't ask to spoil the game, please. :|

Mon, 06/27/2011 - 06:20

Salvidrim

Legacy Username

You should be aware than OOO

You should be aware than OOO has a tradition against numerical values and math-crunching statistics. :)

Which is a nice change, IMO.

Mon, 06/27/2011 - 06:31

Watermelon-Soda

it appears that people

it appears that people disagree with me :|
i didnt expect this but oh, well....

Mon, 06/27/2011 - 07:46

Metaphysic

Legacy Username

The problem is that the bars

The problem is that the bars displayed on each piece of gear don't actually mean much, which is extremely deceiving to any new or even moderately experienced player.

The game doesn't need hard numbers, but it does need power bars that actually convey reliable information.

Mon, 06/27/2011 - 09:46

Gigafreak

Legacy Username

It was an intentional design

It was an intentional design decision to leave us with the stat bars. Equipment used to have stat numbers attached to everything in the early versions of the game, but the numbers were removed.

In fact, they were going to remove damage numbers that popped up on each attack as well, forcing you to look at the size of the impact flash in order to get a feel for how much damage you're dealing. They decided not to do this, thank goodness. (You can still get a feel for how much damage your TEAMMATES are dealing through the size of their damage flashes though.)

What bothers me most about the no-numbers design is just that the bars are inconsistent. I could put up with a lack of numerical data if the graphical data was accurate.

I guess I can live with it... they're spending their efforts in creating and tuning new content instead.

Mon, 06/27/2011 - 09:57

Dogrock

It was an intentional design

It was an intentional design decision to leave us with the stat bars. Equipment used to have stat numbers attached to everything in the early versions of the game, but the numbers were removed.

I can say they really didn't mean that much. They were the only numbers you had, with no attack scores from monsters to compare or make a meaningful statement. All it could show was that one armor or helmet had more or less defensive power than another. That's something easily conveyed in properly managed stat bars.

Mon, 06/27/2011 - 10:10

nearo

Legacy Username

They actually have

Said the UV rates before, beats me where but I've seen it around.
I agree on the earning factor, in this case for UV percentages you only have to search UV on forums or something.

Mon, 06/27/2011 - 11:24

Jaerin

Legacy Username

No...we don't need specific

No...we don't need specific data for every bit and piece in the game.

The only reason that WoW does it is because they know that the patches are going to be datamined to the hilt anyways, and at least if they release it the information is accurate.

In the case of Spiral Knights all that information is available in the community. People just need to care enough to investigate it. Theorycrafting happens when people good with math and stats decide they want to min/max or figure out the formulas. It's what they find fun in it and you can see it starting in Spiral Knights. The devs don't need to hand this information out, nor should they. When they start doing that they no longer control the game, they are now letting the community dictate balancing policy, and its not your game to design.

One the main things I find wrong with WoW is, unless you completely avoid the community sites, you've already seen or read about every aspect of the new patches coming. What happened to the fun of discovery and trial and error?

Mon, 06/27/2011 - 12:17

#10

Majikos

To be honest I don't think the precise item/effect stats are particularly important - leaving them obfuscated means that the devs are free to tweak and rebalance things as needed to produce the best gaming experience. Knowing the community's usual reaction to change, every balance/tweak patch would result in a huge outcry about someone's favourite weapon being nerfed or whatever. It's a headache that's best avoided.

All you really need to know is enough to gauge the comparative power levels of your items, such as how noticeable UV effects are (going from "barely" to "significantly"), how big a difference it makes to pick a weapon that a foe is weak against, that kind of thing. As long as you can tell that "A is better than B but inferior to C" with some degree of accuracy then the exact numbers don't matter.

Mon, 06/27/2011 - 12:35

#11

Gwenyvier

Personally, I'd like a base

Personally, I'd like a base stat number. Base meaning its before weakness/resistance, bonuses/penalties, and whatever the depth multiplier is. Or accurate bars, honestly I'd take either. The problem isn't that we don't have numbers really, but more that the bars aren't accurate so we have no way to compare items. Yes, you can go by the bars, but there's no guarantee that the conclusion you come to is correct. The very old Levi Blade and CIV issue is a perfect example of this. Same bar, should do the same damage (except to Undead) but they don't.

~Gwen

Mon, 06/27/2011 - 13:20

#12

Marqui

I clicked on this topic

I clicked on this topic because i though people were asking for spiral knights figurines or something.
I am dissapoint.

However, since I'm here, I'll put in a quick opinion.

I REALLY like having specifics (i have a hard time watching movies without subtitles, as i might miss something), but I'm fine with the fact that equipment is gauged by the bars.
However, as already stated, OOO should at least tweak the bars to be more accurate. It's not so much that i want to know what is what, but i don't want to be lead astray into an equipment chain that the bars told me was equal or greater to than another chain, and to later find out that it isn't.
With the costs of creating items as high as it is, i want to make the best decision possible, and with the bars as they are, it's just not possible without any actual evidence - that i know is the real deal.

Mon, 06/27/2011 - 13:22

#13

iceykitsune

Legacy Username

I would just like the stat

I would just like the stat bars to be consitent across all equipment. Please OOO?

Mon, 06/27/2011 - 13:35

#14

direx

Legacy Username

Personally I'd love the see

Personally I'd love the see some numbers and figures to see just how effective certain armor combinations are. That being said, I'm perfectly fine with the graphical bar representation that they do have in this game IF, and this is a big if, the bars are accurate, which they are not. The two best examples of this are Levi vs CIV damage and GF vs DA speed. Levi vs CIV has already been explained, but on GF vs DA the GF has a speed bar about twice the size of the DA, however they attack at the exact same speed.

Additionally I think it'd be nice if we had a Charge Time bar for all weapons. It may not be the most useful stat ever but I'd still like more information available rather than less.

Mon, 06/27/2011 - 16:36

#15

Gigafreak

Legacy Username

Oh, that's because the is

Oh, that's because the Faust's speed bar is copied from the Proto Sword's speed bar. The Avenger's speed bar is copied from the Hatchet's.

...Which is pretty disturbing, but that's what seems to have happened. At least the Avenger's bar was copied from another two-swing weapon... The Faust's was copied from a three-hitter. ._.;

Mon, 06/27/2011 - 23:26

#16

Ignominious

Legacy Username

It wouldn't be so bad if the

It wouldn't be so bad if the bar system weren't so horribly broken or there was a wiki with at least basic mechanics info. To compound the problem you have a lot of wildly inaccurate info on these boards and apparently even in game. This thread is a good example of a decent source of info. Unfortunately it raises more questions than it answers http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/10522

if the data there is to be believed it tells us a few things.

-Resist trinkets are broken.
-Mad bomber armor actually gives fire resist rather than penalizing.
-UV's do not display accurately in bar form. They are grossly underestimated.
-It takes more resist to get the same effect the further down you go.
-There is a cap on how much damage you can mitigate

To put it in perspective running those tests took massive amount money which is a massive amount of time in this game. The author had no idea if he was pissing money away on useless gear. He pretty much saved me from a very costly mistake of thinking I could use a Fang of Vog in T3 and let me know how much fire resist was needed for the citadel as well as finding tons of crazy bugs and caps.

I could live with bars but they need to work and actually represent something. At this point I'm not trusting anything until it's been tested.

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So.. how about some proper figures for us, OOO Devs? :3