will continue rising as CE prices rise. Im already getting tired of OOO letting people who buy CE with cash decide how the CE price is going to be for the rest of the players. This problem should be fixed ASAP because i see no point in playing a few runs this week and paying from 3.500 to 4,000 crowns, and the next week finding that the prices are up to 5,500 + crowns. this is [bullpoop]. i can understand the changes in crafting etc etc but THIS?! there should be a fixed CE price around 3.5k or 4k being reasonable. I think its about time OOO decides if they are entirely making this game P2P or F2P; because players who are not willing to buy ce with cash like me are going to get tired in the long run, of this unstable ce price and therefore quit playing the game. Its NO FAIR that those who buy ce with cash decide the CE price fo everyone to buy
The probability that will make most of you QUIT playing the game
i dont consider them as a whole bunch to be described as you say, because obviously they only see ce selling so its similar to the competence sellers use on the AH they see a mat that is currently going for i.e. 2kcrowns, the go put it up at 500crowns less just to sell it before the price that is stated, similarly they do the same thing with CE in the contrary that they just sell it increasing the money needed to own 100 ce. and thats not even the main point. the thing is that i will not continue pleying this game with that constant unstable CE price. it should be fixed. maybe you dont have a problem now, but ill let you tell me on the long run if you or others will get tired of this; i already am, and i know im not the only one who thinks this should be fixed.
The only constant is changes. So, it's either you adapt or you should stop playing since it's not fun for you.
do not direct your answers toward me. this is not a problem only i encounter. Ive been on forums long enough to have read more than 43 posts about the CE problem. unless you have a solution to state, you can keep those obvious comments to your peace of mind.
Its supply and demand, simple as that. If people are willing to fork over that many crowns for CE the prices are never going to drop. If everyone placed their offers at 3.5k or 4k and none went higher CE sellers would have to stick with that. But people just aren't patient enough to WAIT with a fixed low price until the prices drop again -- so it's just going to keep rising.
thats exactly my point, not only I will get tired of this, thats why CE should be price fixed*
If they wanted a fix price, they would have done so since beta. Have you read that CE has reach 20k per 100ce back then?
I don't see a better solution until they have a lot more content or if they follow all the other type of mmo and open up a cash shop, making this the 'legit' free2play game that you guys are mentioning.
On top of that, this game is being developed by a team of 2 that became 7 over the course of 3-4 years of beta.
I for once liek that the price isn't fixed. Players payed real life money for their CE -- they should be able to adjust the prices however they deem possible depending on the supply and demand. Not to mention the game is FREE to play to begin with. You know, programmers and stuff kinda need to be payed in order to keep updating and giving maintenance to the game ya know... And I doubt they accept Crowns as payment.
So yeah, I totally say neigh to placing a set price on CE. Just go farm and get crowns to buy it, or use real life money or place an offer to a price you think is fair and be patient and wait until maybe the price drops.
ok so you will still pay almost 6k crowns for 100ce or maybe 7k for ce next week/month/etc or so? :)
I'll definitely pay for that. 7k, to me, is considered the break even line.
i buy CE, and i'll just go ahead and speak for (what i perciveve to be) a good amount of the people who also do so. I buy CE so i can extend the time i get to play, if you don't want to pay, wait, if you can't wait, leave, i seriously doubt that OOO will change crap becuse the people who they make no money off of want it that way. Also, you do not need a credit card to get CE, there are prepaid visas, Ultimate game cards, and all that stuuf that you can easily pay cash for then use to buy CE, so if you have money, and your complaining because you think you can't use it, you can. If you don't want to spend a lot of money, con one of your friends into playing with you, then split the CE from one amount.
Now then, i am have vented all of my rage, carry on!
Like Rizuchan said, simple economics. The price only goes up because people want CE now and wont wait for those who spent THEIR HARD EARNED CASH on it to sell the CE at the buyers price. On top of that the seller only sells to the highest buyer in the big trade tab, so instead of blaming those who spend RL cash blame the really rich players with no lives. lol The person with more patience ultimately has more power. Although getting everyone to comply is a different tale all its own.
How can you even complain aboot this? The players that buy CE with RL money should have all the right to control the market and charge you w/e outrageous price they want for it. they earned the money in RL while the rest of you that are complaining about how much they sell it for sat on your butts at home playing video games...
you probably buy ce with cash too. none of you have stated a solution, most of you are just [carping] because you dont like what i wrote. so i guess all of you just bend over and just suck the high prices up your [rumps]. i still say ce should be a fixed price.
The reason people haven't stated a solution is probably because they don't agree there's a problem. Some people seem to think that if a game is F2P, that means they should be able to play it as often as they want, and get all the content they want without having to pay anything. That's almost never actually the case. The developers are running a business, and they want to make money. The way they've chosen to do that is to lock down all of the higher level content to CE, and to charge for it. If you want to experience that content, paying for it is generally the only reasonable way to do it.
Now they have been nice, and they have provided an alternate way to experience it by allowing you to trade crowns to other people who have bought CE, thereby allowing you to get the CE you need. But that is entirely at the whim of those who bought the CE in the first place - it's their CE, they are free to do whatever they want with it. No one owes you any CE.
Now if all of that makes you a sad panda, that's unfortunate. It could be that you were misled about the game, and actually believed you'd be able to play everything for free. But that's not the case, and it's not going to be the case. If that's what you were looking for, you're playing the wrong game.
yeah maybe they should get a game that is not online for other consoles, now in that way (its free to play) will the same [crap] apply?
i think a free 2 pley game should be FREE 2 PLAY. period.
Sorry bud but your SOL on trying to find a free to play game. The only way you'll get a free game is a flash game. I can offer a few suggestions:
1. Transformice
2. Realm of the Mad God
3. Armorgames.com
4. Kongregate.com
Any game with any real content to it is going to cost. People don't buy console systems so that they can run up the the store and just grab Portal 2. No, they have to pay for the game and with any luck they'll like it and buy more from that company. Your are deluding yourself that this world doesn't need money to exist. If money dropped off the face of the earth then everyone would die. Do games cost money? Yes. Will the good ones ever not? No. So quit complaining. If you have a problem with people running a stock market like a stock market (and that's all the CE trade really is) then gtfo. This isn't the game for you. And before you say I don't understand the problem, I do. I haven't paid for CE once except in crowns. Is it aggrivating that prices are rising? Yes, but I'll just play more and save up so that I can get all the equipment I want, so quit acting like a 2 year old who thinks everything in life should be handed to him on a silver platter.
maybe you would die without money.
games that are for consoles are way more just in its content and price.
and, hey! other mmos that ive played that are free to play, they are actually FREE TO PLAY and progress in it.
the flaws on the economy of this game sucks, and unlike you i like to have my voice heard, you just
keep on sucking it up lad ;)
You must be a freaking kindergartner if you think that money is unimportant. If we didn't have money our society would fall apart. We've put to much dependance on it. And any good content on any MMO I've played costed cash. What games your playing are probably stealing money from your wallet as we speak.
hahaha! why do you stereotyped bastards always generalize when you see something you dont like?!
im probably older than you, so you can reserve your assumption comments and type something more interesting, if its not much to ask.
did you misread the part where i typed "free to play"? as in -no money comming out of my pocket-
look, this post is about how unstable and irritating the ce price is and how it bothers the majority of players who are not willing to spend a dime on this game and try to find a happy medium on it (a f2p game is a f2play game - not limited to somehing within the game itself - ), if you are just looking forward to argue with me, i will highly recomend you using your time to type in another blog that suits you best
Wait patiently every day for your 100 Mist Energy and do some runs. Save your crowns. When you have enough buy CE. Rinse and repeat. Or, you know, wise up and learn to use the economy to your favor. I started playing two days ago -- managed to rake up well over 50k crowns in that time by doing smart decisions.
Granted, I bought the starter pack, but I'm putting all that CE into wise use that will profit me back so I can eventually sustain myself without having to buy with more real life money.
But honestly, the game is fantastic. I would not mind forking over more cash if I had to either. It's actually worth it, not to mention it's FREE to download and PLAY.
People need to stop whining and expect for all their solutions to fall on their laps without lifting a finger. That's not how life works buddy. ^^
----
Servers to handle the amount of players cost money to maintain, the artist and programmers that make the game a possibility and spend hours and hours every day working their butts off need money to sustain themselves, their family and avoid losing something important like a HOUSE. And the game is free to play if you choose -- it just requires you to be PATIENT and wait for your ME and use it wisely so you get more crowns and eventually buy CE with those crowns and rinse-repeat.
Again, either start logically thinking and looking for ways to get more out of the ME you get every day for FREE or gtfo to another game then.
There isn't a single problem with the CE system at all.
Energy is something that is needed for everything in this game short of running around Haven. People who actually spent their own hard earned dollars on something that they can't even actually hold have all rights to charge what they want. The problem is this trade off needs to be beneficial to them. Yes the game is still working on it's economy but it is as much the buyers fault as it is the seller. The F2P don't try to negotiate to lower prices while the P2P don't argue with getting paid more. They system is, in the data, run by the buyers. The sellers just give the highest bidder what they want.
CorianWornen, that is EXACTLY what I've been saying left and right around the forums since I started playing on day one and checked out the Market tab for CE. Problem is people never bother to look further and are all allured by the big shiny button that says "Trade x Crowns for 100 CE now! :DD"
Really, the whole economy system is brilliant -- it actually GIVES the BUYERS a way to SET the prices they want. But people are just too ignorant, hasty or silly to figure it out and work it. Maybe I figured it out right off the bat because I study accounting... But really! It's right there, the SOLUTION as they say, yet none are taking it.
Instead they whine and moan to OOO, who is not obligated in any way to place a cap on the price at all. P2P players are purchasing the CE with real money -- why should they be limited? If the F2P are willing to fork that many crowns for a 100 CE a pop then they should get that many crowns every time.
Again, simple economics.
I buy CE with cash, usually on a monthly basis.
If they were to set a fixed crown price for CE that was less than 7k or so I would never sell any CE. The reason why CE prices are going up now is because more of the paying players feel the way I do. Namely, that it's better to buy CE at these prices. It doesn't make sense to sell CE even for 5k cr when I get easily get 7k+ cr with my 100 ce in T2 or T3, and usually way more if I sell the mats I find. The only time it'd make sense to sell CE at these prices (anything less than what you consider your break-even point) is if you don't have time to go into the clockworks or you just need that last extra bit of cr to craft or buy what you want.
As long as the only supply for CE is from paying players a fixed price will not work.
well if you make 7k in a run, would you love to spend ALL of what you got for just 100ce???
or would you preffer ce to be at 4k so if u get 8k in a run buy 200ce?? or buy a 100 and keep 4k??
Yeah, that's really the point (what mital said). I've bought some CE. But I still have traded for more on the market. Why? Because I can make more crowns with the CE I get from trading than it costs to trade it. As the game stands right now, crowns are very easy to come by. If you aren't spending them on CE you'll easily have way more than you can do anything with. If you're sitting on 50K crowns, why would you ever sell CE for more crowns? What are you going to do with them?
I've traded non of my CE in the market -- all the crowns I've made (wnough to get my gear, mats I wanted, craft, and high costing recipes not to mention the piles still sitting on my wallet waiting for me to spend them) have been purely from either dungeoning and making runs, used on reviving myself when I derp and die, crafting the stuff I want and/or crafting stuff to sell later on.
Yes, I've inverted CR I've gotten from dungeoning wisely to make more CR, instead of selling my CE away fro CR! What a shock! As it is now I've managed to successfully make back in crowns all the CE I've originally used dungeoning and the like -- even the one kept for my own personal armor and weapon crafting!
It's all about playing the smart way, and making the right choices. It's an economy, figure out depending on what you like to do in the game how you can profit from it all and presto.
You could play free forever if you wanted.
I shell out cash when I can for more CE because I believe the game is worth every cent, and want to support OOO financially in a (very) small way.
Obviously I wouldn't like to spend all my profit on CE. And in reality I wouldn't have to as long as I limited my playtime to ME only. Using only ME I could eventually begin stockpiling CE (faster or slower depending on the market). Then once I have enough CE I could stockpile cr. It just takes patience and here's the important part: an ability to stop playing after you've used up your ME for the day. I notice that not too many people seem to have that restraint. I certainly don't.
You want me to see it from a free players point of view but look at it from the other side. Why would a player sell their CE for half of what they can make themselves with the same CE? To finance free players? Sorry, I'm not that altruistic and I doubt the majority of the people who buy CE are either. The only good answer is "to save themselves time". And at those prices (anything less than the break-even point) coupled with the real world cost of CE I'd rather wait until I have time to play myself than buy crowns with CE.
So if OOO fixed the price they'd also have to either:
a) somehow force the player to sell CE on the market regularly (or the demand for CE would outstrip the supply very fast). Speaking for myself, this would cause me to quickly become a non-paying player.
b) supply the CE directly through the system for cr (shooting themselves in the foot financially).
I don't think either of these things going to happen.
Also, in re-reading your original post I believe you've used the word UNFAIR incorrectly. It's completely FAIR that those who spent money on a good (CE in this case) get to set the price when they resell that good (CE in this case). If everyone stopped buying it at that price then the price would go down. It would be UNFAIR if I bought a good and then was told that I couldn't sell that good for more than a set amount. An analogy using real estate: I buy a house for 250k that's actually worth 500k and I know people who will buy it for 500k, but I'm told that I can't sell it for more than 300k. How does that make sense? How is that fair?
I started reading comments till I saw RizuChan's reply. And I though ... YES, finally one person ... who understand! The people who actaully PAID for this game, and support it with their OWN money, have the right to sell their CE at any price. It's not for the F2P players to decide what the prices will be. Life ain't fair, and neither is the online world. And Kiles7, this game is for people with an age of 13+, and if you don't have a VISA or Paypall or whatever, then that's alright, but dont come here and complain about something you don't even pay for.
readed an entire post waiting for that 18 energy i need for my dusker cap... YOU'RE KILLING THE GAME!!! if the ce prices reaches that high there will be only p2p players(about the... 25%ish?) so if there are 100k players right now only 25k will remain= the game gonna end
I agree with you. The energy prizes went from 4k to 7k and then dropped to 3k.. and is on the rise again. If this continues i really may have to quit the game... we need a fixed prize set by spiral knights... maybe 4500... others can post prizes lower and higher... but if we want me can buy energy from the prize that spiral knights has posted.
xXshaXdowXx: Actually the game would end if they made it so that no one needed to pay for the game to play it. If CE prices are low then I can make enough CR to buy CE with. No need to buy any CE with $$. This means no money for the servers, no money for more content, no money for OOO means the end of the game. If all the free players left and all the paying players stayed, the game would still live since people are paying for the game. The same is not true in reverse. Also, anyone can make up statistics, 40% of all people know that.
DevilXTreme: If spiral knights set a fixed price at 4500 what would be the purpose of people posting higher or lower prices? No one selling CE would want to sell for less than the fixed price and anyone buying CE wouldn't want to pay more than the fixed price. Also, why would I buy any CE with real money if I can use my 100 ME and get 100 CE and some left over cr. If you're going to suggest something like this, how about including a plan on how OOO should make money.
at least they should put a limit on which ce should not pass, id really hate to buy 100ce for 6k, 5.5k also is frustrating, knowing that once i paid 2.5k for 100ce....
it's not just the sellers that set the price, it's the buyers too! they set the price when they decide that X amount of crowns is acceptable for 100 CE. if you dont like the price, set your own price.
really, if everyone understood that, there wouldn't even BE an issue.
dont think that will work? never underestimate the impatience of someone who buys their CE with cash!
Ok, I've bought some CE. It's sitting in my inventory (virtually speaking) right now. Convince me of why I should sell it to you cheaper than the market suggests. No, seriously. Explain to me why I somehow "owe" you the CE that I spent my real dollars on for a cheaper price.
I was playing fine when CE cost 7k crowns, suck it up, sissy.
And anyone who thinks CE should have a price cap needs to shut up and play something else.
All these entitlement babies crying for things to be better for them, learn to WORK.
Maybe they should just set a limit like say 5k on what you can charge or give other ways to earn Ce
This game was suppose to die about a month or so ago (This is what about 20% of the forum posters thought).....many people said it would but it actually keeps on growing. So I will tell you the same player controlled economy is the best you cant blame three rings you can only blame people who have Ce. Personally I think 8k Crowns to 7.5k Crowns per 100 Ce is fair, but you and I disagree....
The market sets the price. I think that's just fine.
Dynamod has a valid point, you don't have to buy at that price if you don't want to. While people are buying, the price will not fall. It's priced after demand. The under/over cut pricing is an issue though, possibly pushing prices indefinitely. I'm not sure what the solution might be.
Whoever's saying OOO only cares about people who pay: this game is fun enough to pay a monthly subscription for, and I would pay for a subscription, but I'm not going to buy CE with real money.
Reason being, if I paid $15 a month like for WoW, I'd only get about what, 5k CE a month? WoW is not my type of game at all (got bored of it and unsubscribed back in 2005), but you gotta admit that this a lower-budget title with a lot less content, so $15 a month is on the high end of a reasonable subscription cost. And you gotta admit that 5k CE can be burnt through really fast, making just a few 5-star items.
Paying for CE gets you so little that it's not worth it unless you're a millionaire, IMO. A few dollars worth of CE isn't enough to make a single 5-star item, c'mon! I love the gameplay but.. yeah.
If I could subscribe and use elevators without using energy, I would pay monthly. But buying CE with money just seems like a ripoff to me. I play this game because there's no other MMO with fun action gameplay like this.
I'll pay money to subscribe so I can play as much as I want. I'll pay money to unlock content. But I won't pay money for some currency I can earn in-game, because otherwise it doesn't really feel like an RPG anymore. Just feels like tossing quarters into some arcade game and pressing "continue" over and over, except I'm tossing several dollars bills in at a time. It's a lot more satisfying to beat a game without continues.
"Price fixing" of CE would actually have the opposite effect -- it would make CE more expensive then it is now.
Why?
Nobody would sell on the market then, players willing to sell CE would do so over the /trade channel. Player's "know" how much CE is worth, so instead of selling 100 for 5K on the market at the fixed price, they'd sell 50 for 3K (or higher even, if they happen to be the only person online at the time selling CE). Under the current system, since every CE seller competes against each other, it keeps the prices down and "regulated".
In other words, fixing the value of CE would result in a "black market" for CE, actually driving the price of CE up.
The only way to lower the price of CE is to add more crown sinks.
when you run out of energy you can do other stuff like mess around in the auctuion house for a while like i do. you should also find another game to play like when you run out of CE and ME. or you can go outside, chill out with friends, play some video games, watch tv stuff like that
Instead of adding 'crown sinks', they're probably gonna lower the crowns earned from Clockworks runs.
One thing will change for sure - we're gonna be even more poor and CE will become a luxury only a few can afford.
I'm telling you, this game is doomed.
DOOMED!!!!!
Set a Mist Energy Shop. Before you complain and says "Ppl are going to stops buying ce, blah,blah."
The ME shop only allow you to refill only 100ME since that all the Mist Tank could carries. Therefore the gameplay still required you to have CE for crafting and upgrading ur equipment. The ME shop will have a fixed price for refilling ME ( my guess is about 4-5k, so that player could make a profit ). I know this game is going to get a lots grindier ( not sure if that even a word ) but this is q good way to make life easier for F2P and yet OOO still makes money because the value of CE is still there.
Any suggestion are welcome.
I know I have fail grammar.
@Silty
You are assuming you do nothing with your 5k CE except crafting and other activities that do not generate income. As many people have said, if you sue your CE wisely you can reach a point where you never need to buy CE again, heck I know players who never paid a cent and never needs to buy CE and has multiple 5* sets. What you are essentially trading for when you buy that CE is your money for your time. Players who don't pay money at all will take months to acquire what you can in days, can $15 do that for you in WoW?
@Kiles7 original post
Why not have the best of both worlds? As it is right now SK attracts both free players and paying players, by making this game P2P Three Rings stands to lose all the free players that currently play this game and future free players who may develop into paying players. By making this game F2P Three Rings stands to make no money. Right now OOO has the best model economically so I don't see why they should change.
@SourBuddie
All that will do is devalue crowns even more, if you think energy prices are bad now, they're going to be absolutely horrible if OOO implements your idea. Your idea would allow players to essentially make as much money as they want without being tied to CE, which may be good in the short run but pretty soon we'll be seeing CE prices at 50k+ cr per 100 CE. Trust me, it will happen, and all it will do is make players take even longer to get anywhere.
@Xiax
Why would it devalue cr?? Due to recent patch JK run now only give bout 6-7k crowns so if ME shop cost 5k that's only 1-2K profit and CE current price is 7k ( gonna be 10K pretty soon) Why would CE price increased by 50k+ ?? I don't get what you are saying... But OOO could just simply put a limit on using the shop like 5 refill ( that's about 5 hours of gameplay) so that people won't just do 24 runs a day and profit 24-42k ( Jk run).
It's not those buying CE with real money deciding the market, it's players with too much money on their hands manipulating the market. Either that or it's supply and demand. Right now there isn't enough people buying CE with real money and then selling it so the price of CE goes up.
I actually find it quite laughable that you think of CE buyers as some sort of large cartel where they get together and decide how they should raise CE prices and screw over the free players. Fact is they're all competing against each other to sell their CE but there isn't enough of them to meet demand so prices inevitably increase.