WHY U NO KEEP ME IN GROUP?!
So im kind of curious why people absolutely don't want a gunner in their group?
2/3 parties i join kick me before i even load into the map, and i find myself going solo.....and beating the level by myself.
Maby they see my 4* sunset set, and think its just the reg gunner set?
Maby they see me with my gun out an don't realize I keep a sword for backup killing/grass cutting.
I mean sure I don't do as much straight damage, but I always act as the defacto support unit in the group, resing when people drop...
I always thought having variety in your party would be best, but a lot of people seem to think otherwise in this game....
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You do crappy damage and you break CC with your crappy damage. There's also certain mob types that you will either make much more annoying (T3 wolvers) or where you're almost entirely worthless (any dodging mob).
This game doesn't need a support class who is there primarily to rez people; if people don't suck they won't die enough to justify your presence, and if they do suck and die, they generally don't do enough to justify your presence rezzing them so they can die again.
If you want to be a gunner, that's fine. Just don't expect people to enjoy grouping with you.
"You do crappy damage and you break CC with your crappy damage."
I wont argue that swords do more damage than guns, that's a given, but i dont break CC, because i PAY ATTENTION.
" (T3 wolvers) or where you're almost entirely worthless (any dodging mob)"
My sword is a snarble barb, so strong against beasts.
"This game doesn't need a support class who is there primarily to rez people"
OK if I ever run into you i will make sure not to res you, because I'm not needed to do so.
**on a side note i find it pretty sad that people HAVE to play with the TOP DPS builds in order to keep a group, the devs put in multiple weapon types for a reason FFS**
Hatred from disreputable gentlemen is going to continually persist.
Some people don't appreciate diversity. I appreciate a gunner that knows what he's doing though, speaking from someone who uses guns to pick off Gremlin Menders from hoards of Mecha Knights without sacrificing a hit or distracting Gun Puppies from afar so someone can smack the crap out of it. You clear out mobs a lot easier without the risk and worry about wasting health and, consequently, CE from over-rezzing. Either way, every party is going to have its downers, its not going to just be gunners. It could also be idiot swordsman who don't really know how to block-dodge and therefore don't really appreciate the support of someone who could make their lives a little better. Someone who's actually -good- at playing wouldn't be affected by gunners.
Yeah, anyone who shuns you for being ranged support isn't worth the effort to impress anyway. Just keep doing your thing man. There are people out there that aren't cookie cutter knights that enjoy a good gunner.
i personally like gunners too, its just something other than hords of swordsmen, who cant even stay alive a few minutes without wasting health or dying.
a gunner is a nice addition to any party (if he knows what he does), just like someone said before me, they take out healers easily or destroy/distract puppys, which swordsmen can hardly reach sometimes.
There's definitely an advantage to having a gunner, swordsman or bomber in your party if they know what they're doing. I'm usually carrying a gun, two swords and a bomb so I know it's almost always handy to have one of each in the party. A gunner who knows what he's doing is infinitely more helpful than a kamikaze swordsman who runs in and slashes about til he dies, or a player who still hasn't learnt to take out healers quickly.
One gunner dancing around the perimeter of a danger room or arena who knows what they are doing it a godsend. They keep the status effects spreading, and they stay alive long enough to rez other people. If you're a pure gunner, I feel you should also be the first to rez since you should be taking the least damage. If you're doing these things, you're doing your job, and they are idiots, UNLESS you are fighting JK, in which case sword zerg with poison potions flying seems to still be the easiest method. Guns don't really cut it there.
Well with the addition of the Biohazard, even guns are finding a place in JK boss fights.
OP, you just happened to find (too many) elitist groups in your adventures. They are everywhere, in every game, in every forum, obsessed with numbers and DPS and flaming and stuff.
I actually prefer to have gunners on my party over 4 lolshinyswords. I like diversity, I like support, and I like Argent Peacemaker.
Also, a group with diversity is a group with victory (and boss tokens). A group with 4 insane berserkers is mostly useless (except if you are a gunner. In that case, you got some nice meat shields!) if you don't have a good leader (oh, people also need to understand that a knight who give too many orders is actually a LEADER, not a douche... most of the time, yeah).
Try to make some friends, find a nice guild, and you will get some fun eventually.
Other than that, solo is is the only way to avoid elitists.
This is not your typical mmo; There is no clear cut support role, no matter how much bombers/gunners want themselves to be. Status effects can be nice in certain situations, but they can be applied by any knight that whips out his hail driver/shivermist etc. Hence, a gunner pigeon holing himself to run on the outskirts of the party to shoot will typically mean more pressure on the other knights and in most cases less dps brought to the table. It's much much better to have a good balanced knight than a pigeon holed bomber/gunner, so the people kicking you have a point to some extend.
So because there is still balancing issues with the different weapon types, i should just go cookie-cutter knight, and vog/owlite/DA??
What if i don't want to be another wolver-knight in a crowd of them? I should just solo??
really?
They strafe around the fight shooting with their guns, but when [crap] gets too hot to handle, they usually die, or res players that wouldn't of died in the first place if they had an extra hand helping them out.
I have played with a good bomber, however, and its amazing. Shivermist for crowd control, the new Snarbolox bomb that destroys wolvers, not to mention knocks mobs on their ass for me to swoop in and deal damage. Burn, blast, ect. A valued party member.
I have yet to play with a skilled gunner, though from reading I suppose they could be useful.
I don't think I've seen a lot of pure gunslingers out there. I've seen bombers, but next to or no gunslingers. I am not amused.
I'd actually like to have a gunslinger on my side to see how the game flows with one. I don't mind having anyone on my team as long as they know what they're doing. Heck, I've had swordsman after swordsman die on me a million times, leaving me and other living party members to break through the enemy forces to resurrect the downed soldier. There was this one time where it got so bad that I was basically a medic, running back and forth to revive fallen knights. I think it ended up in everyone, including myself, being slain. What happened after that I can no longer remember. Sure, warriors duke out the damage, but they also run the risk of falling in the process. No-one is perfect, and even the best amongst our ranks are bound to be swatted at one point or other.
In before; "lol i did t3 no hits w/ swords"
My reply: "Okay, keep it up for 168 hours in-game time and include Lord Vanaduke at least seven times. Good luck!"
Gunners have strong points in them, and the recent addition to their arsenals just makes it all the more interesting. If you feel like it you're welcome to run with me anytime, stanfy. I'm Shidara in-game as well.
As for myself, I main the swords. I like taking down enemies as quickly as possible, and bombs aren't entirely my thing either. I keep at least one bomb and a handgun on me for different situations while holding two spots open for the lolshinyswords. Variety is good, and I like to be set for most situations the game can put me in.
I find a gunner that knows what they're doing to be extremely useful. They can spread status effects like the plague, more or less force enemies that dodge to dodge instead of hitting another party member, and can pick off annoying enemies that other party members can't reach.
The problem of course is that a lot of gunners well... don't have a clue what they're doing. Bad gunners I get the urge to (but never actually do) boot. I get it, you're a gunner, you shoot at the things. Quit shooting at the ones that dodge/shield when we're beating them in the head already. Every block does not need to be destroyed (bushes/grass is a different matter). And please quit blowing up the explosive blocks when your party members are right beside them.
Send me a tell in game. I have no issues partnering with a gunner: :) IGN: Gwenyvier
~Gwen
There's a saying that gets used in MMOs. It goes something like this:
"It's your 15 dollars so you can do what you want, but it's our 60 dollars and we think you're an idiot"
You acknowledge that you do significantly less damage than swords. You acknowledge that your weapon of choice is useless against certain enemies. You acknowledge that you are playing a support role in a game that doesn't require any such support.
You should just accept that you will occasionally be kicked from groups because the role you choose to play is deemed unnecessary by many. Complaining about it when you already know that the style you play is sub-par is just silly.
I think the issue here is that people boot him because of the stereotype, not his actual skills. His style of playing may not be suited for everyone, but when he's in the right team he can do wonder works. People who wish to lock out certain people should lock their parties and just invite their friends.
you break CC with your crappy damage
What the heck is CC?
Crowd Control, like the ice ground-root...
Does that even matter in a game like this? Unless you're in certain instances of FSC I don't think it should really matter. Maybe some arenas as well.
I'll usually give gunners one level just to see how they play, but out of the 15 or so gunners I've run into, none of them have been nearly as useful as even a semi-competent sword player. The stereotype formed for a reason.
It's possible that there are some great gunners out there who don't fit the mold. I've never seen one.
@Dirt
CC matters in some circumstances, and gunners generally break it with their dinky attacks when it'd be much better for a sword player to unleash some serious pain. Just a recent example: I was doing a devilite level with a couple other people, clearing rooms with minimal health loss using shivermist spam and picking off targets. A gunner joins. The gunner proceeds to break every frozen mob, allowing them to throw chairs all over the room and almost wiping the party. Why would you want someone like that around?
See that's where i would switch to snarble barb, i realize that devilite's dodge bullets.
Being a gunner doesn't mean you can only use guns....
Cogbern would be proud of you, he doesn't have a sword, and has both the pepperbox and needleshot line of guns...
Stanfy, you can play with me anytime as well if you're having trouble with partying. IGN is Radish.
Try wearing a costume, probably lessen the chances of you getting the boot.
Gunners are pretty useful. U can have swordsmen smash at the enemy while the gunner stays t the side and strafes anything that the swordsmen didn't kill. and if the swords all die, they kill the remaining monsters from a distance where they're not likely to get hit as much as a swordsman. this has helped me a bakillion times in areanas. all the swords die, and the gunner goes around strafing and killing until he/she wins. they can also be useful for jk. one of my techniques is 2 swordsmen smash the jk, another swordsman with knockback weapon smashes at the incoming jellies, and the gunner runs around strafing trying to attract most of the jellies attention to draw them away from the swords. this works somethimes. u just gotta have the right team to do it though.
Back to the main topic.
There are a lot of idiots in this game who think that they r awesomer than everyone else. when they see someone else appear in their party, they're like "i dont need help! i am to pro to need assistance." and then they kick u. so it might not be the fact that your a gunner, ut the fact they dont need help. and they want all the mats to themself. this kind of stuff sort of happens ot me to. i like to wearmy begining armor as a costume, and immediatly people start to think im a beginning noob. they dont want me. so they kick me. not that i dontmind, i can solo teir 1 easily and most of teir 2 as well. but the point is that... um... uh... okay, there is no point. not one i can think of anyways.
btw, i apolagize for all the grammer mistakes. lol.
and u can come gunning with me any time u want. IGN: Lordofnecromancers
Add me I love having a good gunner in my group. :) Also, I'm not a noob. I'm 4*.
IGN: Rangerwill
P.S. Please state your IGN, and I'm curious what guns you have. If you don't want me as a friend, just say so. Thanks!
I play as a gunny and have never been unwelcome in a group. I have only ever played with one other gunny (this isn't for a lack of trying. I am 5*). Frequently I am invited by a friend or guildy as soon as I log on because most of them have had me carry them through a t3 graveyard. Every "elitest" Vog cub who has wanted me kicked but wasn't the leader has tried to freind me after beating the duke. But as I said earlier I haven't played with other gunnies so I'm not sure how the cards stack for others.
~if you want to see a gunner who is more usefull than the average swordy add me. IGN Mustado
P.S. I sound really full of myself and I'm really not.
I swear I saw this topic a month ago except it was about a bomber...
Have only been kicked a couple of times, but 9/10 of my runs consist of me carrying the team most of, if not the entire, way. I use my guns more than my other weapons, usually.
Gunners are very rare but I once did a full 4 gunner party and it made 4 sword parties look like a joke. Though it was 4 skilled gunners so yeah.
if u re in a PUP party and u re exclusive sword/gunner/bomber i would kick u ofc, the people dont have their strategies set up so u end up having to count on your own skill more than teamwork, so u can go as a "support".
Maybe I kicked you? I kick a lot of people before they ever finish loading because I just went solo and haven't had time to lock the party before all you guys come swarming in. Yup, don't even bother looking at your gear nor do I care what you're wearing I just want to solo a dungeon and forgot to lock the party.
Actually, this thread makes me want to go back to gunner. I actually got further down in Clockworks toting Cryo and Shadow Drivers than my nice shiny Avenger (though that thing is loads of fun to use). In T3, evasiveness is far more valuable, something I feel guns excel in than swords. Sure, swords can do the same thing -IF- you know what you're doing. That's more than can be said to a majority of players. But then even then pure swordsman is no better than a pure gunner, so I think the point is pretty moot as some people admit to having other equipment as well and simply have a weapon preference according to their style.
Also, I've been a gunner for half the time and never had anyone ever complain about me (except in a Jelly King run, but that was back when I had no idea how to fight the damn thing. I've always brought a Vile Slasher ever since). IGN: Ykro if you want another one.
To be frank to make the *perfect* group you have to have 1 gunner, 1 bomber, and 2 tanks. (all of which are good.... no brainer) I can't stand groups that are all swords. When I see them I always double check I have extra CE.
Gunners will make dodging enemies go nuts and break your carefully laid ice.
.
Bombers will spam nitronome and make it impossible for you to see/hit anything.
.
Swordsmen will shield bump that attacking monster right into your face, killing you dead.
.
.
That's why I roll with Mages~
1."This game is loaded with idiots. It's hard to find a good party." -Renpartycat
Completely true, I get kicked the second I swap out my DTB for my Shadow Driver during JK runs, absoluely ridiculous.
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2.I see that each weapon is specified for a type of advantage in battle:
Swordsman deal the most damage but they constantly leave themselves an opportunity for the enemy to attack them.
Gunners are the long range and distraction specialists, but they cannot deal alot of damage.
Bombers are the crowd controlers but they take longer to attack than everyone else.
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3.In my opinion, if you actually get to tier 3, get a sword that has a splash damage (mostly Brandish series) or a projectile throwing charge attack, a good gun (like they Cryotech since they can freeze enemies,) or a long ranged or projectile blast-like bomb. (since enemies can deal alot of damage and it would be stupid to hack and slash all of the time....)
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4.The only reason I think people actually do kick people because of them being Gunners is the CC breakup(as stated above in this topic), because getting bombs like the shivermist is ideal for stalling large groups of enemies, and a gunner just shoots randomly in the crowd, and free all of the enemies (just like me asking my teammates NOT TO HIT THE TOUGHER ENEMIES WHEN I FREEZE THEM WITH MY GLACIUS,) I really don't mind gunners as long as they know what to do and pay attention, other than that, I really don't care if your a gunner or not.
-VermilionShadow
ur joining the wrong people, i wear justifier jacket in costume slot and lvling crappy new guns, never get kicked yet
I use the master blaster, pepperbox(sometimes) for the most part, trying to get the antigua, but cant reliably beat JK.
Maybe you should try using deodorant, then.
I was kicked from a party using Steam voice chat..
During the loading screen I heard one of them say "Here comes a new guy"
The otherone replied with "Kick him out"
And thus I was kicked out..
My question is, why dont they LOCK there party if they dont whant anyone else in it??
And Im a swordwielder.
Over the weekend, I decided to try and level a dusker set to get ashtail, and level the Bristling buckler, and striker to vile striker, and noticed that I was getting kicked while wearing dusker gear as well.
Makes me think that there's people who want to leave their group open in the hopes that a way over-geared knight will show up, so that they will beat JK for sure, or something.
It makes sense, but for the people who are trying to get into a run themselves, this is incredibly annoying.....
***Refrains from being a kamkaze swordsman that slashes about until he dies***
I personally like gunners AND bombers in my party.
I'm a gunner / bomber when none of those are present.
But my gunning is limited to Hail driver.
So a gunner that has more options in the arsenal to keep gun puppies busy is always good.
For mob control, I'm into bombs more than guns:
Ash of Agni; (to keep the low health on monsters and get rid of healers)
Graviton Vortex; (to keep everyone close together so a swordsman can land a charge attack)
Master Blast Bomb; (to spread out when I get cornered)
Heavy Deconstructor; (same as the above)
Freezing Atomizer; (Dadda's little love.)
I'm totally into diverse and not specialized play.
I try to take 1 bomb, 1 gun and 2 swords in all my runs.
Sometimes I replace the ice gun or the Faust for another bomb, but then it becomes another 2-1-1 formation.
If you want to support people, be versatile. Specialization will get you kicked by ppl who don't like what you're specialized into.
EDIT: Add me in-game!
IGN: miojox
You get kicked for being a gunner?
Weird indeed, I have played with gunners and they are pretty reliable on JK runs, Usually me and another Swordman are "shielding" the gunners while they spam shadowtech or the fiery pepperbox, it makes the job quicker and they are quite useful against the "spiked" jellies (Big and regular) and the puppy turrets.
On JK they are mostly using vials on JK or distracting the jellies while the sword users deal the damage on JK.
I always love having gunners on my team. Most gunners use really nice ASI or CTR elemental guns that help out a swordsman, such as fire, ice, shock, etc. so that I do not have to hit as much to take down an enemy. Its weird that you get kicked for that though. Lol I actually almost got kicked because I refused to do the Jelly King because all I needed was some heat from the later JK rooms (I don't need those tokens anymore as they are no use to me). I "promised" them that I would go and do JK boss with them if they gave me back my vials (3 fire, 3 poison, 3 curse, and 3 health pills). They gave them back (and I know that all they had were about 1-2 of each thing, as they announced it before we were going to go in) so when we got on the elevator I immediately hit up. If they were going to be a d*ck and kick me for just wanting heat, then I will be a d*ck back and not give them my vials. Simple as that lol.
EDIT: Also add me in game. I could always use a great gunner in my runs!
IGN: Greekjr
Totally not a week later...
I wouldn't want someone like that in my group, whether it be a gunner or a demo or a swordsman.
There is no such thing as a Gunner. There are no classes or specs or special abilities. There is only DPS, status effects, and skill. So if you use a gun you are trading DPS for status effects, however these can still be applied by bombs or even swords sometimes. So really you are just giving up DPS for no real benefit. That is why other players don't want you in their groups.
That being said play the game however you like. This game isn't serious enough to care about "high level play" or any of that nonsense. People who are used to soloing will still be able to kill the enemies and your gun damage will just be a little bonus.
I personally love having Gunners in my group, so feel free to add me, they make great support unless your blazing away at Wolvers.
IGN: Richy
gun·ner/ˈgənər/Noun
1. A serviceman who operates or specializes in guns, in particular.
We have gunners. I myself am actually leaning towards it after actually making a few guns and using them in many different situations. You are giving up DPS for the ability to attack from a greater distance and exposing yourself to less danger than you would as a bomber. The only drawback to being a gunner is dealing with dodging enemies, as no other type of weapon has such a serious drawback.
This game is loaded with idiots. It's hard to find a good party.
I'm a Demoman, and I usually play Solo or with my friends. If you want, you can add me in-game and I'll get you a good team.
IGN: Renpartycat