The Skolver set increases damage and the Vog Cub increases atk speed. does anyone know which set gives the highest dps output? Vog, Skolver, or one peice of each?
Skolver/ Vog Cub DPS output
Fri, 07/15/2011 - 13:54
Fri, 07/15/2011 - 15:37
#2
I'm not sure if this applies
I'm not sure if this applies to other weapons, but it seems to me the the Cutter's charge attack is affected by ias (when doing random charge attacks with people while waiting at Basil, I regularly finish more quickly than others, I'm guessing because of my Swiftstrike).
The difference might be small, and likely much smaller than +damage, but ias can affect charge attack dps, at least in that particular case.
Fri, 07/15/2011 - 15:44
#3
BiggestLoser, that's assuming
BiggestLoser, that's assuming your chosen weapon deals damage most efficiently solely relying on charge attacks. It would depend on the weapon type and what percentage charge attacks contributed to your overall damage in regular usage.
Another point to consider is that IAS affects the duration of charge attacks. Maybe a minor issue compared to the charge time, but it does reduce your vulnerability period when recovering from a charge attack animation.
Probably the easiest question is whether you can hit the IAS cap. If you have the gear to do that, swapping Vog for Skolver may be the most efficient way to trade the unneeded IAS for damage.
As far as a raw comparison of IAS vs. DMG, I'm honestly not sure. Maybe someone with both sets can chime in. The bonus percentages aren't clear to me for attack speed and damage modifiers. Maybe someone's done the research somewhere on the forums/wiki?
Fri, 07/15/2011 - 17:15
#4
Double Skover + Swiftstrike >
Double Skover + Swiftstrike > Double Vog + Barb
Especially since swiftstrike increases gun attack speed as well.
Sat, 07/16/2011 - 05:57
#5
Darkzekkai I feel you are a
Darkzekkai I feel you are a new player and that you are being lead astray.
This game is not World of Warcraft. You aren't going to fill a "dps" role where you only are concerned with how much damage you can put out in a race.
There is not DPS race boss or even mobs in this game.
This game is not about trading blows with monsters, its about crowd controlling and dealing damage in a controlled manner so that you don't take damage.
Once you figure out how each mob attacks, and which mobs do which damage, you'll notice that the mobs that hit you most often will deal elemental and shadow damage. While monsters that deal pierce damage are very easy to avoid taking damage from.
This is why you should choose Vog Cub over Skolver. It has nothing to do with DPS. Additionally, attack speed increases the character's combat animations which allows you to pull into your shield faster allowing faster blocking and taking less damage. The minor damage increase of the skolver does very little defensively. Again advantage Vog Cub.
You'll also want a 5* shield. The swiftstrike is no going to cut it in the tier 3 instances. Gun puppies will tear through it.
The most popular 5* is the owlite series because of the elemental and fire defenses on it.
My choice is the barbarous thorn shield for the attack damage increase on my sword because I've learned to dodge most attacks against gun puppies (even the rocket turrets are pretty easy if you know how to guide them into enemies.) The barb shield can still take a decent beating from puppies if needed.
I would suggest one of these two shields and the vog cub armor. Regardless of what is the highest dps.
Sat, 07/16/2011 - 07:51
#6
His join date is 27th april
His join date is 27th april 2011, yours is 24 june 2011, whos newer here...? OP might be more experienced than you think and mildly suggests he is able to dodge well considering to get a piercing+normal set so the defense doesn't mean as much to him as does the damage. If there is someone lead astray its you jumping in a dps thread with your defence gibberish. Will you get mad if i go to T3 and clear it without reviving with a Swiftstrike Buckler? People been there and done that plenty times. Your shield should be used for bumping anyway, not tanking damage.
Sat, 07/16/2011 - 10:43
#7
Join date means nothing in
Join date means nothing in terms of experience since some people play 24/7 and others might get to play for 2h on a Sunday night only.
I found Pelikins post actually very informative and it made sense. He posted to give HIS opinions on the subject to try help the OP out.
@ jooosek To say he is talking 'defense gibberish' is ignorant and rude. In fact, his point about faster attack speed resulting in being able to use your shield sooner after your attack is finished is a very good way of looking at ASI > dmg increase, especially when this game is mostly about crowd control. Sure the OP might have asked the initial Q about DPS, but Pelikins is looking at the big picture, which makes perfect sense.
Moreover, your final point about a shield being used for bumping and not tanking adds weight to Pelikins argument about sooner being able to use your shield with ASI.
I certainly wouldn't get "mad if you go to t3 and clear it without reviving with a Swiftstrike Buckler", I'll just smile when you feel the need to tell everybody about it on the forums =]
OP I would recommend vog cub because from MY experience I take hits mostly when I am finishing a sword combo and I get hit from another monster nearby which is now closer because the combo moved me forward (and the monster was knocked back). It's useful for Vanaduke of course. I pair with the Divine Veil to give me the all round protection I like.
~Z
Sat, 07/16/2011 - 11:26
#8
To start here are some tests
To start here are some tests people have done:
Swing Speed Tests
UV dmg Bonus Tests
Leviathan Blade dmg table
Now that we have the boring testing out of the way, let's get to some boring math. I'm using the Leviathan because that's the numbers I have available. I approximated data where none was available.
Full Skolver Set-
VHIGH Dmg Bonus
Swing Speed: 95 per minute (31 sets of 3, then 2 swings)
Damage for Leviathan @ D27 262 , 262 , 332*
Full Vog Set-
VHIGH ASI Bonus
Swing Speed: 111 per minute* (37 sets of 3)
Damage for Leviathan @ D28 203, 203, 258
*approximated from available data
Total damage output:
--------------------------------------------------
Full Skolver
First/2nd Swings: 64 total, 262 damage each = 16,768 damage
Third Swings: 31 total, 332 damage each = 10,292 damage
Total damage per minute: 27,060
DPS: 451
Full Vog
First/2nd Swings: 74 total, 203 damage each = 15,022 damage
Third Swings: 37 total, 258 damage each = 9,546 damage
Total damage per minute = 24,568
DPS: 409.5
Hope that helps.
Sat, 07/16/2011 - 11:26
#9
dsffsdfsd
double post oops
Sat, 07/16/2011 - 13:13
#10
for me personally, while
for me personally, while skolver does deal more dps, vog's asi has a defensive component in that I can swing more times before having to block/dodge. dps however is great for tier 1 where you can just button mash
Sat, 07/16/2011 - 21:00
#11
All about other Gear
All depends on what you want your other gear to be. I think a lot of people tend to like the Vog Cub for a few reasons.
1) Faster attack speed = faster shield times. Whether you're bumping enemies or soaking damage with your shield, the faster you can throw it up after attacking, the better. Faster recovery on charge times = Awesome.
2) Fire resist is super useful for Vanaduke and lots of other tier 3 where Fire becomes one of the worst status conditions you can get. Frost is a real pain, granted, but I think the general consensus is that fire is worse.
3) Increased damage can be gotten from UVs and other sources more readily than increased attack speed, which to my knowledge, only three big items (Vog set and Swiftstrike) offer. Damge UVs on the other hand are frequently found in good weapons, and as far as I know (and I very well may be wrong,) the Increased Damage bonus from Sklover and the Increased Damage to monsterType UVs don't stack beyond 6, so anything beyond Medium Damage vs. monsterType is unecessary. That stacking theory however, is based on little snippets from other forum chatter, nothing official. If you do want an attack speed upgrade with Sklover, you're forced to take the Swiftstrike Buckler, which dictates your shield choice. With Vog Cub, there are better choices, such as
Barbarous Thorn Shield, which fills the Piercing hole you get from taking Vog over Sklover, as well as giving a little bit of the Sklover bonus damage
Grey Owlite Shield for the Shock/Fire resist and buffing up your Elemental resist to exorbitant levels.
Dragon Scale for the huge Fire/Elemental resist as well as Piercing resist but without the damage bonus from Barbarous Thorn Shield
Crest of Almire for the Fire/Shock resist like Owlite, but with a nicely rounded Shadow defense that's tough to pick up without charms/Armor UVs.
4) Piercing Damage tends to be the easiest to dodge. Wolvers for instance tend to telegraph their attacks more readily, as well as have more predictable and avoidable attack patterns than Elemental attacks. Spike traps are set in the ground... The Vog set changes to Elemental Damage instead of Piercing.
5) Lots of people drool over the Divine Avenger. If I remember correctly, the attack speed bonuses on Divine Avenger are more beneficial than damage bonuses. Again, this is just hearsay and rumor based on chatter and forum banter, but consider this in combination with the first point about shield speed, and it makes sense that it becomes far more important for that slower speed Divine Avenger to finish those attack animations so you can shield.
For the most part, it isn't really about which one does more damage, it's about which one is more -useful-. I think generally people find that the Vog Cub gives you the attack speed that is so much harder to attain from other sources without gimping your shield selection.
Sat, 07/16/2011 - 23:50
#12
@Pelikins
Actually, Swiftstrike isn't all that bad in Tier 3. I used it during a Vana fight and it was fine. Keep moving and dodging and you'll be safe. Perhaps one Gun Puppy blast may hit you but the Swiftstrike can actually absorb that. Plus Maximum Increased Attack Speed is VERY fun to use in tier 3 with Divine Avenger. I'm the type of guy that does minumum blocking but many shield bounces and I run around the enemy so I can kill them from behind. Keep doing that and you're fine.
Playing style inspired by: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DJP3hepM-4
Sun, 07/17/2011 - 02:17
#13
I think eeks' great data
I think eeks' great data (thanks !!!) basically close the thread.
Pure DPS, Skolver win (by about 10%)
Still want to be able to interrupt your combos faster... go with Vog.
Sun, 07/17/2011 - 10:23
#14
thanks eek5 for doing the
thanks eek5 for doing the math. now the question is: Will a mixture of skolver + vog give more dps than pure skolver or pure vog??
Sun, 07/17/2011 - 14:14
#15
random314159
thanks eek5 for
-
random314159
thanks eek5 for doing the math. now the question is: Will a mixture of skolver + vog give more dps than pure skolver or pure vog??
It will be higher than vog, lower than skolver.
Sun, 07/17/2011 - 18:56
#16
The math is nice and all,
The math is nice and all, just for the sake of curiosity, but this isn't that type of game.
You're not going to sit on some monster and mindlessly slug away at it nonstop for a few minutes. So there isn't going to be a massive time savings in that regard.
What you'll probably find more relevant is the protection the sets offer. Piercing vs Elemental.
Swing speed can be handy for weaving slow attacking weapons in between certain monster attack rates. The damage increase can sometimes be noticeable if it saves a hit, or allows you to hit, shield, hit with the same two shotting effect of a 2 swing combo (or 3 on a 3 swing weapon).
Mon, 07/18/2011 - 01:04
#17
wow
wow, i did not expect this many responses. thanks everyone for your insight.
Honestly, i only asked out of curiosity. i know that defense-wise vog is more useful. i just wanted to know if anyone had done the math (thx eek5).
and if anyone's curious my current loadout is:
Vog helm
Vog coat
Barbarous Thorn shield
Archon or Glacius (depends on stratum)
CIV
Blackhawk
Mon, 07/18/2011 - 05:21
#18
@op
I'm glad we could
@op
I'm glad we could help.
The reason I took the route of response that I did is because I asked the same questions when I started this game (maximizing dps and hanging all defenses equal). But through experience, I found that my initial gearing strategy was not as viable as focusing more defensively.
My load out (and why):
Vog Helm (shadow d uv)
Vog Coat (shadow d uv)
Barb Thorn Shield (no uv but I'm working on a elemental or shadow uv)
Leviathan Blade (CTR uv)
DA (no uv but working on a construct uv)
Shivermist Buster (CTR uv)
Argent Peacemaker (no uv but working on an undead uv)
-We've already talked about why Vog overrules Skolver. I've got shadow defense uv's because I find that I get hit most by shadow and elemental attacks and otherwise lack shadow defense.
-I talked about why I chose the BTS...again elemental or shadow uv for the same reasons.
-On the Leviathan Blade I chose CTR over the others because this is my general use sword. I use it against everything except constructs and undead so tailoring a UV isn't especially useful. CTR on the other hand really comes in handy. Against a frozen opponent a charged Leviathan attack does immense amounts of damage is capable of killing most enemies in one attack if it hits all 3 times. Otherwise, the attack is awesome for sweeping opponents away from you and whittling down crowded rooms.
-The DA eats undead alive! It is capable of dispatching hoards of undead without allowing them the opportunity of counter-attack. I chose a construct UV since this is the other type of monster the DA excels at killing and the DA certainly doesn't need help with undead.
-The shivermist buster is a truly overpowered item. The locking of monster's ability to turn allows the flank and spank tactic and shuts down enemies that otherwise would dodge. It also makes it impossible for ranged enemies to aim. The area of denial this provides allow teams to bunker down in a corner and fend off any number of melee opponents with ease. Every group should have 2. CTR is great for this bomb, it doesn't deal much damage anyway, we just want the freezing effects as fast as possible.
-The Argent Peacemaker is incredible on Van runs. It allows a swordsman to pick off enemies at range without losing mobility. Its great when dispatching enemies while navigating traps, which is a common occurrence on your way to Van. You'll see a lot of grey numbers while running non-undead instances but its still free dps which your opponent has difficulty retaliating against since you don't lose much mobility while using it. An undead UV will help on Van runs.
@joozek
Forum join date is not the same as game join date or game play time/experience. And yes I did notice (even before I posted) his forum join date was several months before mine. But I've also been doing MMO character building since UO back in the early 1990's, so let's not be naive.
I should of worded my statement about the SSB better. Many people use it and it is a decent shield for T3 (no I would not get mad if you cleared T3 using one...this game is easy, a skilled player could solo T3 without a shield.)
What I should of said is that the SSB lacks the hp, and resistances to be a top tier contender for a serious optimizer's load out.
Not being able to soak a hit from a lumber or multiple shots from a gun puppy limit the viability of the shield for a player who's skill and gear are matched well for the content.
Sat, 07/30/2011 - 13:58
#19
my prefrence is the full
my prefrence is the full skolver set because more raw damage just seams better then attacking faster
my equipment is
Skolver cap ( raw damage )
Skolver coat piercing med. ( more raw damage )
Barbarous thorn shield normal def. low ( even more raw damage, which maxes out the damage output )
Leviathan Blade CTR VH ( Best Raw Damage Output ) with the charge attacks since everyone knows Calibur charge is better then combos
Barbarous thorn blade for the piercing damage
Gran Faust for shadow damage
working on a Glacius ( brandish line for the elemental damage )
i use Skolver set with my Levi because massive damage boost while spamming charge attacks really saves your life
I don't need element or shadow defenses since i've learned to dodge everything that comes to me.
Basically all this shortened down if the weapon you're using is better with charge attacks use Skolver AKA Calibur line but if the weapon demands more combo swinging go with Vog
Sat, 07/30/2011 - 14:37
#20
Not much to add.
Pretty much everything relevant has been said already, but I feel I should put my two cents in.
I LOVE the entire Wolver series. I never plan on using anything but. However, I have noticed times when both sets can be useful. Now, yes, like most have said, Vog is insanely useful, and practically required for any swordsman, for Vana, and the ASI allows for easier comboing and shield-threading. However, I've noticed that when I'm soloing, I worry less about my defenses, shielding, and the like and worry more about killing enemies as quickly as possible. For this reason, I always have DA and/or Levi Blade on me, and rely on charge attacks around 90% of the time while soloing.
If you're anything like me, then Skolver starts to look more and more tempting, if only to solo with. Also, it just looks so badass. I chose red as my main color, so when I finally craft Skolver - and providing they ever let Shields get a costume slot - I'm gonna walk around with the Swiftstrike on my back and claim I'm Okami.
skolver has the big advantage of charge attacks, so overall skolver should give more dps
for asi u could mix a swiftstrike buckler or a UV, that would probably be the best dps
with vog cub, a uv could only cover 1 monster family for dmg and the charge attacks would give the same dps regardless of asi
correct me, if im wrong