Since everyone seems to have jumped on the Pulsar bandwagon, I began to question on how they affect gun balance. From what I can see, this gun doesn't have any actual weakness but has benefits that go above and beyond the intended design.
Did the Pulsar series ruin gun balance?
Sat, 09/10/2011 - 09:57
Sat, 09/10/2011 - 11:47
#2
The pulsar series balances
The pulsar series balances out itself in two ways.
1) If not used well, the dps will be poor. The shots can knock enemies out of the range of the other shots fired behind them, wasting the rest of the clip.
2) If not used well, the knockback will cause harm to your party. There have been enough complainers since the gun came out because of people that don't know how to place pulsar shots.
Pulsar is a weapon that's actually slightly below par if used badly, but great if used well; this is in the same way as Divine Avenger/Faust which are exceptional against their intended targets, but will easily get the user killed if they play mindlessly.
Weapons that require skill to get the best results can afford to have their best results a little higher than a weapon that does not.
Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:53
#3
Also, its bullets are slow.
Also, its bullets are slow. Try it some time - you can outrun your own bullets (assuming you fire 1 at a time).
Compare to the alchemers or antigua line -- those bullets are *fast*.
Sat, 09/10/2011 - 15:00
#4
Although I wouldn't dispute
Although I wouldn't dispute that the Polaris is the best gun in the game right now, it's one that requires both a great deal of practice to use effectively and a certain degree of co-ordination within the team to maximize it's effectiveness. As overdingle stated, weapons that require more skill to be used correctly should consequently reward the players that do more so than a weapon that can be spammed easily.
Sat, 09/10/2011 - 18:04
#5
KIDDING ME?
Rigwald???
The firing speed of the alchemer are way underpowered,
really its like you have to slowly tap it to make it fire without reload.
~OOO~ Y NO YOU balance guns???
ლ(°益°ლ)
Sat, 09/10/2011 - 21:12
#6
The Pulsar guns are terrible
The Pulsar guns are terrible for group play.
For every one player that knows how to carefully use it SPARINGLY and effectively, there are 99 other idiots spamming their new rocket launcher to the unequivocal detriment of every melee player on the team.
You can't see the battleground. You can't see attack animations.
Heck. I spend half the time standing around watching when the Pulsar kiddies break out their toys.
Sun, 09/11/2011 - 00:56
#7
I have a hard time accepting
I have a hard time accepting the argument that that difficulty of use is a balancing factor. If that were true, then the Catalyzers would be the most powerful guns in the game since they are without a question the most difficult to use weapon (sword/gun/bomb) in the game.
The Alchemers have their own weaknesses as well. The ricochets can cause a lot of havoc in group play when there are regenerating blast blocks. It also requires a lot of aiming if you want to maximize the effect of ricochets. There are many times when the ricochets won't hit anything at all. The 2 shot clip is a big limiting factor as well.
I actually think the slow bullets are helpful in some ways. It helps to alert party member about the imminent explosion. It isn't any different than playing with a bomber. Normally, the slow bullets would make you miss your intended targets but that is compensated by how the bullets increase in size and damage.
In my mind, there are two properties that make the Pulsar series overpowered. First, expanded bullets can cancel the attacks of turrets. Second, the normal sized bullets do comparable damage to other guns.
Sun, 09/11/2011 - 08:24
#8
I agree with Velops.
They need a damage nerf, and they really shouldn't cause knockdown/flinch like the Magnus line does (even the unexpanded shots can do this).
If they weren't a "blow everything to oblivion gun" but more specifically for pushing things around from a distance, it would be a lot better. Also, if the Kilowatt line is going to be flat-out better than the Voltech line in every way, it should have a much smaller chance of stun and do a lot less damage per bullet.
I also don't buy the "low DPS if used poorly" thing. On single enemies, you simply shove it into the corner first and then wail on it from afar. On groups, it doesn't matter, because you're doing so much area damage that it will always compensate for the reduced damage to a given target.
Sun, 09/11/2011 - 08:53
#9
You're kidding right? It
You're kidding right? It needs a NERF? You do realise the sort of game we're playing here right?
What this ultimately comes down to when people whine like that is they're pissy they spent money on what they believe to be an inferior weapon (lets say, a storm driver) and want theirs to be equal/better, a pretty stupid reason. Now if it did actually "ruin gun balance" (as ambiguous as that is) i might be with you, but it doesn't..for a pure gunner it doesn't change anything, you still have 2-3 other slots for weapons, the polaris isn't FORCING you to only use that one weapon, and it's definitely not so powerful that its trivializing or breaking any content...so what's your problem here?
I'll give you my views on polaris: It's an excellent compliment to a swordsmens arsenal, or for anyone who solos a lot..in parties i'd prefer an alchemer. In fact i only ever use mine on gunpuppies when im in a party, or very rarely the NON EXPANDED shots say on lumbers etc, it's just too dangerous otherwise. If i had a stormdriver i could spam it non stop and deal out a LOT more damage to packs of constructs/ud for example in arenas without putting anyone at risk, its also a lot better for sniping single enemies due to the much faster shooting speed..and it's got a way better charge
If anything, most of the other guns are too weak. You gunners know this to be true, yet now you've finally got a good gun you...ah well
Its an amazing gun, but balanced compared to the others (however its no doubt the best solo gun, whether you see that as a problem or not is up to you, i dont)
Sun, 09/11/2011 - 09:10
#10
MFW people want a nerf in a
MFW people want a nerf in a gun =/
really ? if you want nerf polaris becouse is too good in the current metagame.. nerf divine and levi too.. oh wait shivermist is OP too.
seriusly.....
Sun, 09/11/2011 - 23:30
#11
Oh boy.
@moogzor
You're kidding right? It needs a NERF? You do realise the sort of game we're playing here right?
Yep. A game that will soon be competitive and currently hinges on variety, ie weapon balance.
What this ultimately comes down to when people whine like that is they're pissy they spent money on what they believe to be an inferior weapon (lets say, a storm driver) and want theirs to be equal/better, a pretty stupid reason.
Good strawman, but no. I'm a full gunner and my primary weapon is a Gigawatt Pulsar.
Now if it did actually "ruin gun balance" (as ambiguous as that is) i might be with you, but it doesn't..
It's really not ambiguous.
for a pure gunner it doesn't change anything, you still have 2-3 other slots for weapons, the polaris isn't FORCING you to only use that one weapon,
It is when it's blatantly superior to all other elemental guns.
and it's definitely not so powerful that its trivializing or breaking any content...so what's your problem here?
That is my problem. I used to use Alchemers until I got a Kilowatt Pulsar and haven't touched them since, despite that I like them.
I'll give you my views on polaris: It's an excellent compliment to a swordsmens arsenal, or for anyone who solos a lot..in parties i'd prefer an alchemer. In fact i only ever use mine on gunpuppies when im in a party, or very rarely the NON EXPANDED shots say on lumbers etc, it's just too dangerous otherwise. If i had a stormdriver i could spam it non stop and deal out a LOT more damage to packs of constructs/ud for example in arenas without putting anyone at risk, its also a lot better for sniping single enemies due to the much faster shooting speed..and it's got a way better charge
Well, then you're doing it wrong in my opinion. It has massive utility even in full parties, and it still outdamages all of the alchemers (except Prismatech? I have no idea on that one) even with unexpanded shots.
If anything, most of the other guns are too weak. You gunners know this to be true, yet now you've finally got a good gun you...ah well
I'm certainly all for buffing guns, but if you buff other guns to Polaris level, you won't need swords anymore.
Its an amazing gun, but balanced compared to the others
Sorry, it really isn't.
(however its no doubt the best solo gun, whether you see that as a problem or not is up to you, i dont)
If it weren't broken otherwise I probably wouldn't have a problem with that. It's kind of like how Nitronome is a massive shield when soloing.
@raton15
MFW people want a nerf in a gun =/
MFW this is a text-only forum.
really ? if you want nerf polaris becouse is too good in the current metagame.. nerf divine and levi too.. oh wait shivermist is OP too.
Correct. This game has plenty of balance issues, and this is only one of them.
seriusly.....
Seriously.
Sun, 09/11/2011 - 10:21
#12
@moogzor: I didn't create
@moogzor: I didn't create this topic because I have regrets about the Storm Driver. I don't even have one.
@raton15: Shivermist did get a nerf months ago. The radius of the freezing cloud was slightly decreased and the freezing cloud stays active for a slightly shorter amount of time. I didn't talk about swords because I'm a gunner. I'd rather not get into heavy discussions about something I know little about.
Obvious weapon imbalances will cause problems down the road, especially when Lockdown is released to the public. I'm not exactly advocating that OOO nerf the Pulsar series. A damage increase to other guns might work but OOO has been unwilling to do that since the game launched.
Sun, 09/11/2011 - 10:33
#13
@WindOwl aww sry grammarnazy
@Velops i just trying to say, why people want a nerf in a guns is ok for the current metagame..
Sun, 09/11/2011 - 10:47
#14
That's too bad. :( Whenever
That's too bad. :( Whenever something threatens to render something else obsolete, upbeefery of the latter makes a lot more sense to me than nerfing; it's about twice as much work in this case, but in general has far less potential to make players less happy. I would rather see Alchemer and Blaster users get a bonus than Pulsar users get a penalty.
I just got my Pulsar last night, and am enjoying it so far but I also look forward to getting a second Elemental gun for party play since Alchemers do not knock targets around like that. It is not a high priority right now since I have an Elemental sword, it is unlikely my party will be without at least one gun, and I still do not have each combination of weapon class and damage type covered.
In PvP I think the slow projectiles will be a much bigger hindrance than in dungeon diving. I can hit dumb monsters easily, but I wouldn't rely on my ability to hit a human player with projectiles that we can outrun- on a weapon that focuses on long range, no less. I would be more worried about the Antigua lines dominating other guns; lots of fast-traveling projectiles and from what I read and see it does not slow you down to shoot as much as other guns.
Sun, 09/11/2011 - 11:48
#15
I think it only seems
I think it only seems overpowered in that as elemental guns go it outclasses alchemers by a noticeable margin, but despite the 4 different flavors of alchemer there's really only 2 elemental guns so right now there isn't a first and second place there's a first and last place.
Sun, 09/11/2011 - 14:07
#16
@WindOwl
I'm sorry but i'm having a really hard time seeing how you think the pulsar line is superior to alchemers in a party environment; it's USABLE for sure..if you use non-expanded shots, but in that situation its flat out inferior to the alchemers..take a wave of lumbers for example, which do you think is better? this isn't some one off scenario either.
Fact is the polaris is better in some areas, and the alchemers in others - it just happens that the pulsars strengths are useful to more players than the alchemers, it fills a good niche. For example someone whos soloing will benefit more from the knockback and ability to herd/control all of the mobs with his pulsar - but someone in a party might find the faster bullets, safety and ability to spam damage despite the amount of enemies more useful. Also someone who perhaps only wants one gun would want one that covers more bases..so they get a pulsar, its more useful in that situation. But "overpowered"? i dont think so at all. That's just my opinion, you think the pulsar is better in all areas..care to tell me how instead of proclaiming i'm "wrong"?
Sun, 09/11/2011 - 14:32
#17
I suggest this, if the pulsar
I suggest this, if the pulsar is going to be nerfed: Reduce it's clip to 2 shots.
Sun, 09/11/2011 - 15:10
#18
I'd lower the non expanded
I'd lower the non expanded shots damage some more..as that seems to be the thing most people take issue with, but i really don't think its needed
Sun, 09/11/2011 - 15:23
#19
i hate to do this but...In
i hate to do this but...
In guns:
God-Tier:
-Polaris
-Blitz needle
Med:
-Biohazard
-Alchemer
-AP
-Calhallan
Bottom:
-Valianza
-Sentenza
In Swords:
God Tier:
-Leviathan
-Divine
-Snarble series
Med:
-Brandish series
-Final Flourich
-Gran faust
-FoV
Bottom:
-Other Flourichs
-Triglav Series
-Winmillion
In bombs.......:
God tier:
-Nitronome
-Shivermist
-Ash of agni
-DBB
Med:
-Voltatic tempest
-Radiant sun shard
-Gravity/Electron vortex.
Bottom:
-Big angry bomb
-Irontech Destroyer
-Heavy Deconstructor
-Ionized Salt Bomb
Ok now you can see no weapon is "crapy tier" becouse:
God tier: God tier are the weapons can match very well the current metagame getting a lot of proofit with the minor risk.
Med: Med tier still match well the current metagame but need more team cordination and skill.
Bottom: Bottom weapons are hard to find a place in the current metagame, becouse a med or god tier wep can do the same job a lot better.
*some bottom wep like sentenza maybe works in the new pvp.
Sry for my crappy english.
*Nope, this is no just a IMO.
Sun, 09/11/2011 - 16:04
#20
The 3 shot clip makes the
The 3 shot clip makes the polaris do more damage than even a prismatech alchemer, without expanded bullets. Against stationary or cornered targets when you should use expanded shots it's massively more effective, and seeing as elemental weapons are for fighting undead and constructs, so slow zombies slow mechs and rooted turrets, the advantage is clear. Whatever horrible experience in group play has given such a rage on for the polaris is no different than the nitronome or calibur charge spammers. Dumb players get players killed, the weapons are almost never at fault by design.
Sun, 09/11/2011 - 21:49
#21
Gonna upgrade to Nova Driver just to find out.
Pole's 3-shot clip is cool, but shot-shield routine might be good if the Nova Driver deals way more damage than the Storm/Hail/Magma counterparts. I dare say it may even be comparable to Polaris' bullet spam without the knockback (and sadly, without the shock too).
***
Also I don't use my Polaris on zombies anymore... I'd use the Blitz Needle... one charged shot, one kill...
Sun, 09/11/2011 - 22:09
#22
Now we're talking
Only serious gamers and beta testers even know about the tiering, and it's needed for so much. (Cough cough Super Smash Brawl cough)
On that note, there is rarely a reason to nerf a weapon. If things become too easy because weaponry was buffed, then just make harder levels. The best course of action is to pull the lower tiered items up. Polaris is fine where it is.
Sun, 09/11/2011 - 23:28
#23
...
@Tarkus
Brawl is a horrible competitive game and please don't mention it again.
With that out of the way, it's much, much easier to just nerf one gun instead of bring all guns up a tier relative to enemies and other weapons. You can just reduce a clip size or damage per bullet without disrupting what balance the game already has.
@moogzor
I'm sorry but i'm having a really hard time seeing how you think the pulsar line is superior to alchemers in a party environment; it's USABLE for sure..if you use non-expanded shots, but in that situation its flat out inferior to the alchemers..take a wave of lumbers for example, which do you think is better? this isn't some one off scenario either.
I don't know what to tell you other than you're not using it correctly.
For the wave of Lumbers, you have a choice: group one or two into a corner and handle them yourself, or let teammates add to the damage through guns or risk hitting them with swords and getting walloped, or work with a teammate to increase their DPS by using the unexpanded shots and possibly adding a shock. This can change very fluidly; if you're next to a Lumber that a teammate is working on, you simply get a little closer and refrain from pushing the Lumber away. If Lumbers near you are covered, aim for some that are far away to get them away from the team and start killing them. Pulsar is good in team play.
(Tired, so I'm skipping a lot)
you think the pulsar is better in all areas..care to tell me how instead of proclaiming i'm "wrong"?
Kilowatt Pulsar line
+ Longer range
+ Higher damage
+ Safer (= bigger clip and higher chance to shock than Voltech line)
+ Unique utility in its ability to choose whether to knock back the target or not
Alchemers
+??? Random ricochets (random in number and in angle) that sometimes hit things, other times hit switches (this is particularly infuriating in the Twins' levels), and still other times negate their own effect (see: Cryotech)
+ Faster bullets
I can't think of a situation in which the ricochets are better than expanded shots. The expanded shots do a ton more area damage, and are in no way fickle. The faster bullets are honestly a non-issue as long as you can aim, unless we're talking about fiends, wolvers, or Lockdown, and you wouldn't use an elemental gun on either of the first two, and Lockdown is a whole other ballpark (in which the Pulsar line becomes very weak, but so do the Alchemers).
Mon, 09/12/2011 - 00:25
#24
Re: Ricochets
As an Umbra Driver addict myself, I can say when a ricochet is better...
1. Large group (4+) if you can shoot in their middle
- No knockback, so you can unload multiple shots rather than just 1 Polaris explosion and they all split up
2. With nearby wall
- Ricochet can be fairly predictable if you play with alchemers long enough, in this case you shoot the enemy on their sides facing the wall
3. Some enemies like Jellies and Gremlins (those without back shield), you unload the charge shot in a certain way and they die (enemy wandering into ricochet zone, resulting in multiple bullets hitting).
*You'd think putting an alchemer gun barrel inside a large enemy (lichen colony, JK) would cause ricochet within the enemy's internal organs but nooo. My theory is that alchemer bullets come out from the middle of your character (despite what it looks like). Or maybe I just can't get it to work consistently.
Mon, 09/12/2011 - 01:10
#25
I guess I don't have a clue
I guess I don't have a clue regarding the Supernova since I personally don't see a compelling reason to invest in Normal damage when there's other options, but the Polaris looks to me like it's only competing with the Elemental Alchemers. I can accept the point that Pulsar-types have better potential flexibility that could be leveraged in teamplay, _but_ only with uncommon skill and coordination out of line with the 2-star rating it starts at. Going by how often I read complaints about knocking enemies recklessly and disrupting visibility, too few of us are that skilled and/or coordinated for the Pulsars to be considered superior to Alchemers for teamplay. The reality of what we run into should be more relevant than exceptional situations.
I would rather see the Alchemers upgraded than Polaris downgraded, at the very least because I would rather see Alchemer users excited about a boost than Polaris users displeased with a nerf. More than any direct tweaking of any of the gear itself, though, I very much prefer the approach Three Rings seems to be taking to mellow out the imbalanced popularity of Vog Cub armor and Owlite shields. Making more levels and monsters to foil "overpowered" items and strategies just strikes me as a much better use of their time than fiddling with stuff that people have become attached to.
If you really have your heart set on changing the Pulsar line, though, I would like to suggest making it bigger and slower like the Magnus types so it takes more finesse to use rather than just decreasing the power; less clumsy and random, more elegant. :) That should address the gripes I see about knockback, visual spam, and too much DPS for the skill requirement without making the investment regrettable for most of us who've already spent time getting it.
Mon, 09/12/2011 - 01:23
#26
wohoooo
"For every one player that knows how to carefully use it SPARINGLY and effectively, there are 99 other idiots spamming their new rocket launcher to the unequivocal detriment of every melee player on the team."
Wohoooo, Unequivocal Detriment! Wohooo. Some fancy footwork u got there. ^.^
Mon, 09/12/2011 - 10:08
#27
@windowl
The coughing is
@windowl
The coughing is covering up my laughing at the abomination.
In all seriousness though, I think players will still get whatever they want. Polaris is a great gun, but it requires either the ability to reliably kill the twins and the skill+money to buy the upgrade or be able to pay someone else to do it.
Meanwhile, the vanity guns Sentenza or Valianza who require defeat of a much more difficult enemy, but are overall pretty worthless really need to be re-worked somehow.
Having ran several maps with Polaris players, yes they are annoying, but they're still not nearly as bad as nitronome spammers.
Mon, 09/12/2011 - 10:26
#28
I'm really not looking
I'm really not looking forward to the intense magnifying glass lockdown is going to cast over all the gear in this game. Not knowing whether a weapon will be good or even the same from week to week is no fun, luckily OOO don't seem to be heading in this direction and are doing things right atm..all this buff/nerf talk is honestly horrible to me. In a game like this i only think its ever needed if something is MASSIVELY broken to the point of trivializing some of the content.
Also i really like the idea of getting a nova driver, and if i played in more parties i probably would've but my pulsar is too useful when soloing (mainly because of gunpuppies). As far as i can tell the nova driver does more damage than polaris's expanded shots, which is pretty damn good when you consider it vs packs of creeps..it'll be far more consistent spread damage than a polaris barring lucky shocks locking them down, the first one or two explosions usually seperates them
If anyone has any actual numbers though that'd be cool, i assume its the same damage as an umbra driver
Mon, 09/12/2011 - 10:27
#29
The Pulsar series has great
The Pulsar series has great potential, but is a detriment and even a disaster in the wrong hands.
I'll keep my alchemer, thank you. Far more consistent and stable.
Mon, 09/12/2011 - 11:22
#30
Pulsar is not overpowered
I have both The supernova AND Nova Driver. I bring the Nova Driver to FSC, and I can say it is quite on par or maybe even more powerful than polaris, the charge itself splits into 4 bullets which hits multiple times quite oftenly, and i have already lost count on the occasions where I one shot slags using the charge itself, in a 1 - 2 man team. The Pulsar line is GOOD, but not overpowered, can the polaris one shot enemies? no, it's feature is the splash and shock effect, while the alchemer lines are more like "shotguns", both has their uses.
Oh and btw, the supernova doesnt stop the turret from firing on first shot, it takes 3 hits to do so, and sometimes on higher tiers and with more players, it doesnt stop them fast enough, meaning the turret actually shot right before i stop it.
In conclusion, Pulsar lines, they are good, but overpowered? I think not.
And please, Pulsar lines are not Handguns, they are grenade launchers.
Mon, 09/12/2011 - 13:07
#31
Also
Pulsar also has the limitation of having an initial shot that is mediocre at best in speed, size, and damage. This coupled with the advanced movement rate of certain mobs (Lookin @ you Scuttlebots @ Large horny Alpha jellies) will put you back in the weeds quickly as you will not be able to outrange them in most situations to trigger explosive shot.
I'll take cryo/firo in an arena pug any day of the week though, and with a little panache and some help from rick O'shay I wouldnt say one or the other clearly outshines the other from a dps perspective.
Having said that, I just upgraded my pulsar and got ASI medium W#O.oT, and eventually want to pack it as a "utillity" weapon along side 3 other pures because in certain situations that weapon can just turn the tides of war.
Mon, 09/12/2011 - 13:16
#32
I'm personally finding this hilarious.
- The suggestion box has long burst from complaints of guns being confusingly underpowered, and a myriad of ways to possibly bring them to a comparitively effective state. Guns are lacking, and they are not doing anything about it.
- Pulsar and Catalyzer series are introduced, along with numerous improvements to Handguns. The weapon type now has crowd control, area of effect, more effective means of knockback, stronger group capabilities, increased damage, and Poison. Dungeoning also becomes safer when in smaller parties.
- Most complaints disappear, and everyone is delighted that guns, once again, know the feel of love.
- Several months later, we no longer want these benefits.
It's like some sort of silly caricature of double standards!
Tue, 09/13/2011 - 03:43
#33
IT is not an issue of guns
IT is not an issue of guns being low powered or high powered. The guns should also be balanced with each other. By all means, give a general boost to all guns, but don't make 3-shot guns that would be around the alchemer's power even if they had 2 shots only.
I think in general, a few things could be done. Reloading speed reduction based on ASI would be a good start.
Alchemers could use a 3rd round (rebalancing the damage perhaps a bit) if the ASI reload is not doable.
The problem atm is that alchemers don't get much out of ASI and most gun gear boosts ASI.
Tue, 09/20/2011 - 17:57
#34
Yes. I've been using Pulsar
Yes. I've been using Pulsar almost since it was released and I don't see how anyone can NOT think it's overpowered(relative to other guns; how it fares in the context of all weapons is another discussion). It's gotten to the point where I avoid using it because where's the fun in a weapon that requires virtually no skill? (the fact that everyone uses it now doesn't help either...)
Although in the Clockworks, the issue is more about how disruptive it is to one's teammates. While alchemers reward skill and precision, the Pulsar actually encourages you to just spam it everywhere, knocking enemies in every direction, making those obnoxious explosion animations. And that's exactly what 90% of Pulsar users do.
But where it's really bad is Lockdown. It's even cheaper than bombs are in that game.
Tue, 09/20/2011 - 18:41
#35
Eeyup i change my pulsar for
Eeyup i change my pulsar for a nova driver and i think is better, no shock, no annoying knockback, more dmg each hit ( fun fact nova does 205, pulsar 190) less bulltes but can richochet so im ok with my nova.
Tue, 09/20/2011 - 18:52
#36
I dont think its bad in
I dont think its bad in lockdown at all, unless by bad you mean the only gun worth using - even then its only for a bit of area denial
guns really need help in lockdown
Wed, 09/21/2011 - 13:17
#37
go ahead and flame me :D
um... guys? b4 pulsar line came out, there were TONS of threads about how weak guns are, and how they need a buff.........
now that a rly strong gun comes out, u gunners complain about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
im sorry, but i fail 2 see the logic in it!
u asked 4 a better gun. OOO gave u a better gun. now ur complianing that the powerful gun u wanted is way 2 powerful?
kindly think this thru, im kinda sick of all this complaining.
i use guns a lot, im fine with them: less risk, less dmg, lol
im also a swordsman, and using swords gets u hurt a lot more than guns lol
each class has its pros and cons
if u dont like it, go play another game plz, SK is fine the way it is
Wed, 09/21/2011 - 14:40
#38
oh god the syntax...
Pulsars
oh god the syntax...
Pulsars are overpowered. Even if I didn't carry a vortex everywhere and use the AoE of pulsars, it's really good for a repeatable knockback effect. Still, with the exception of Vana, other guns are horrible for damage, or have big weaknesses. Ricochet is great, but it often messes up things and requires you to have another damaging weapon that doesn't ricochet. They should be buffing other guns a bit.
Wed, 09/21/2011 - 23:37
#39
If Pulsar is OP and needs a
If Pulsar is OP and needs a nerf ... uhm DA/GF PvP?? rofl ...
Fri, 09/23/2011 - 22:45
#40
PULSAR FTW
Well, Pulsars are fine the way they are.
Nerfing it would make it not worth its tokens, and everyone would start complaining again about the uselessness of the guns OOO gives us.
Buffing other guns?
I don't know why, but that doesn't sound right. It may ruin the balance even more, I don't see how they can buff guns even more and still be balanced compared to swords and bombs, and if they did, that would start tons of forums saying how guns are loved more than the rest.
Forums like that are annoying as hell.
Sol XII
Sat, 09/24/2011 - 00:08
#41
The more i use my Gigawatt
The more i use my Gigawatt Pulsar the less reason i have to return to my alchemers, they seem so useless now. And that dumb ricochet hitting randomly switches in proximity, the mediocre damage paired up with only two shots. Why would anyone want to use the alchemers? The Hail Driver? The freeze chance is unreliable and you will just destroy the ice with your guns ricochet anyway. The Storm Driver? You can't shape up groups with it so no point in shock on it. The Magma Driver? You still will do much more damage with Polaris even if you ignite the monster on the first shot. The Nova Driver? The damage is better than the other alchemers, yes. But it still is seriously lacking compared to Polariss. Sure, you can oneshot gun puppies with the charge but why even bother when Polaris effectively BLOCKS the gun puppy from shoting forever. Two-shot, stop, two-shot, stop, two-shot, stop. There, the gun puppy never shot! The energy gate in one of the levels of Aurora Isles with 9 gun puppies really shows that off, you just need to spam, spam, spam and you will kill all the puppies including the dumb silkwings that get into the damage splash. Umbra Driver? I'll just use my Callahan, at least it will knock the gremlin to the ground.
I don't know who can really think that a weapon that combines knockback, massive AoE, ultra high damage, a shock status effect and the ability to shape up groups of monsters/stop a gun puppy in tracks isn't overpowered. Why use a sword when you can just use Polaris?
Sat, 09/24/2011 - 11:49
#42
People still use swords
The Polaris is OP, but it isn't enough to be used instead of swords, tell that to the DA and GF users.
Sure, Polaris might be their secondary weapon, but don't you dare say that Strom Driver is useless.
Although it's shock chance is outclassed by Polaris, it is faster and doesn't annoy your teammates to hell with screen blocking explosions and knocked-back lumbers in attack animation.
And there's a reason it's that powerful too, the tokens you use to get it aren't as easy to get as a 2k gun or a 1k recipe, (hence, the alchemers)
POLARIS HAS FAULTS TOO. JUST ACCEPT IT THE WAY IT IS.
Sol XII
Sat, 09/24/2011 - 15:56
#43
Okay.
As with most games that introduce new, "expected-to-be-balanced" weaponry, this cycle is one that will adjust to itself. You guys will want a change, a buff or a nerf, and that change may or may not happen--But if it does, wait a little while and it still won't be good enough.
What actually happens during this process is a self-adjustment. If a newly-changed or added weapon has been deemed "OP" by most of the community, keep in mind that if inverse opinions begin appearing overtime, the weapon has reached a new balance. People adjust. Everyone becomes aware of a weapon's strengths and weaknesses; anything perceived OP becomes the new norm, its effects are understood and dealt with by the players, and is therefore now balanced. Standards are variable.
Just don't worry about it.
Sun, 09/25/2011 - 20:36
#44
alchemers kill faster than
alchemers kill faster than polaris, even on single mobs.
the ricochet from an alchemer always goes left, according to the direction your character is facing.
if you hit a mob on the far side, so the ricochet goes through them, it will hit again.
i've one-shot those little 4 legged robots with an unmodified magma driver.
i suspect that when you hit two mobs at the same time with one shot, you get two ricochets.
i've fired into groups of three and four mobs and caused multiple deaths from one volley.
polaris can never equal that kill speed.
even when you have a mob pushed into a corner and you are hammering it with stage two polaris bullets, an alchemer could have killed that mob faster, without needing it to be in the corner.
i've gone into mechanized levels with polaris and magma driver and end up using the driver to kill mobs and the polaris to bust blocks.
polaris does have a nice range for gun puppies, though.
Sun, 09/25/2011 - 23:19
#45
Those pesky Devilites
The kill speed really depends on the playing style, you're used to playing strategically, but I shoot as fast as I can to piss of groupmates and kill it before they do, so I've had some practice. Sure I use mine with full ASI, so the 3 clips will be gone in no time, but it doesn't matter). I admit, ricochet is nice, but a bigger clip size AND shooting bombs? Now that's what I'm talking about.
Mon, 09/26/2011 - 06:28
#46
more damage
"The kill speed really depends on the playing style, you're used to playing strategically, but I shoot as fast as I can to piss of groupmates and kill it before they do, so I've had some practice."
the word "strategically" suggests that i am waiting or playing patiently or something.
that is not the case.
alchemers do more damage than polaris.
i get bored using my polaris on mobs because it doesnt kill them fast enough.
you have to aim a little though, no auto-target allowed.
Mon, 09/26/2011 - 06:58
#47
Im still saying this " Nova
Im still saying this " Nova driver is very underrated and does more dmg than a storm driver or polaris"
Mon, 09/26/2011 - 14:20
#48
@Raunwynn
the word "strategically" suggests that i am waiting or playing patiently or something.
Contrarily, that is moreover your own perception of the comment. To be strategic can simply means you are using some sort of tactic.
If I am playing Striker in Lockdown, and see a control point being taken by a cloaked Recon, I'll just dash forward with a Flourish-/heavy sword-type weapon and swipe the center. It's usually natural for players to stand in the middle of a point when capping it, so there's an easy ambushing strategy.
alchemers do more damage than polaris.
As for this, I believe you meant strictly in terms of potential DPS, unless you are truly denying that Alchemers (sans Nova post-buff) have a higher base damage than all Pulsar damage output.
Mon, 09/26/2011 - 15:03
#49
@Espeonage
i think there might be a language barrier between us!
"unless you are truly denying that Alchemers (sans Nova post-buff) have a higher base damage than all Pulsar damage output."
i did not deny that; i said that.
you even quoted me!
wtf?
alchemers do more dps, more damage, more skull crushing (more whatever you want to call the numbers that fly out of the monsters' heads when you shoot them) than polaris.
all alchemers do more damage than polaris (barring character type resistances.)
you can kill any single mob or any group of mobs faster with an alchemer than you can with polaris because of an alchemer's ability to cause internal ricochet.
you can shoot a monster in the side with one alchemer bullet and get three hits.
when i shoot a jelly with umbra driver in t3, i see two or three 240's jump out of that jelly.
then those ricochets seem to be able to split into extra bullets that can also ricochet if they hit multiple mobs simultaneously.
you can kill whole squads of mobs in 6-7 shots with the appropriate alchemer while you would be blasting them all over the place and waiting for them to recollect if you tried to take them down with a polaris.
thought i was pretty clear!
the only time polaris can compete is when you have a mob pushed into a corner.
even then, alchemers can kill the mob faster, and all the mobs around it too without knocking them out of the strike area.
edit - polaris is a great pvp gun though, or sidearm for a swordsman or bomber.
gunslingers don't really need polaris in pve.
Mon, 09/26/2011 - 17:07
#50
@raunwynn
Do you have proof?
For all I know, you could be pulling numbers out of thin air.
I can't rely on the wiki to verify these damages either, because the entries for 3 star and above guns have little to no information on damage.(this applies to both the polaris and the alchemers).
Please post a screenshot with you shooting at something so we can verify damage.
What ?
3 shot, elemental dmg, knockback, explosive shot, chanche to couse shock.. looks normal to me
now a alchemler:
2 shot, elemental dmg, Multi-status effect (Cryo, fiery, volt alches), Ricochet and usefull charge..
Both are awsome and usefull but the "POLARIS" is better in the actual metagame like the VOG+Divine+owlite+AP set.