Spiral Knights - Yet another biased game

Yet another biased game

58 replies [Last post]

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 07:30

Thoranhippo

I have played a nearly 100 hundreds Lockdown games since preview and came up to a conclusion. That is simply one more totally biased mode.
Explanation: biased towards?
-The main community, americans.
Why?
-Simple. If you're not from America (as in the continent) it means you're playing from oversea, and necerssarly have a higher latency to the game host. Now for clockworks if can be OK, I mean there ain't no strikers or recon-mode players in there. But with 200ms latency, would someone kindly explain me how can moves from strikers or recons, and even guardians actually can be followed accurately? Tell you what, they ****ing can't be followed. Tons of rollbacks, tons of unexpected moves frantically striking the character on the screen -such as, you're not moving and suddenly, oh, you get "pushed" out of nowhere-, latencies when attempting to drop a bomb, strike with a sword, switch weapons...(and sidenote, that greatsword combo bug still seems to be "up", its utterly pleasing to see your character unable to follow the 1st hit with a 2nd combo hit, and instead stupidly go 1st hit again. I recall the thread in Bug Reports about that was like, maybe 3 monthes ago).
I'm not saying that applies to every case described upper. If I were playing using my university campus connexion at 100MB/s speed I doubt I'd run that much troubles playing. But then again I'm not sure most players do play using industrials connexion at their own house. I've made and seen complains about lag eversince I started playing on all forums, and despite that there's never been the slightest official answer to those concerns (at best of luck trolls only. Hello trolls!).
So here goes the ultimate question: WILL any OOO 'authority' kindly tell the concerned people when we can finally expect our own game host, or at least what it would require to be done so that we get to see this happening at last? I would only repeat myself if I said why did the developpers already bothered themself to translate the game, hire staff and build the website for 3 other languages if besides they can't handle giving them proper (meaning equal to the main community) gaming conditions? What are we, just wallets?
To me, definitely sounds this way. Even the GMs of my respective community (won't mention, trolls would love to give some stupid trolling words on that) spend more time handling the english forums and english havens than ours. So then again the money we spent isn't really invested for our good.

Opinions?

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 07:49

mieulium

Legacy Username

If this was reddit, I would

If this was reddit, I would give you my upvote. I often find myself slashing at someone, and realising it does not register in the server. I am really getting frustrated, though I have only played 4/5 games. I myself also have given up on the blast network, because I cant do squat there too.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 08:17

jooozek

Legacy Username

Instead of making the

Instead of making the 320896732 thread about it just bump your old thread? No need for more pouting on those forums.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 08:21

Igole

I'm playing overseas and I

I'm playing overseas and I don't experience such huge latency hiccups like you. Try playing when no body else in your home is using internet, and/or reboot computer + router before launching the game and joining the fray (router should be at least 15 seconds put off to refresh itself for better quality - the same applies for the computer).

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 08:26

Thoranhippo

"Instead of making the

"Instead of making the 320896732 thread about it just bump your old thread? No need for more pouting on those forums."
Hello.Thanks.Goodbye.

Just to answer to Dvo, I use a computer certainly powerful enough to handle SK (not going full details); as for the connexion, first I doubt online games are meant to be playable only when nobody is using the internet at home (or I hope so), and I had my line fully checked and fixed about a month ago, so it sounds awkward to me my own line would be the problem. Anyway like I said, some are less concerned than others, goes off I'd say either to your personnal location or just your line being more powerful..Just to set it clear, my distance to LA is roughly 9k miles.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 09:02

Madfruitz

Almost all online games can

Almost all online games can be played just fine with even a lowly 1mb/s connection, if the game is well made and has multiple servers spread around the globe (or at least a few hubs where the majority of players reside, eu, na etc)

Having a super quick connection and brute forcing your way to a playable experience doesnt make it fine. They really should be putting up some new servers, theres no better time than now..lockdown leans on your connection far more than anything else SK has to offer and i dont know if it isnt obvious enough already but good servers are far more important when fighting other PLAYERS than pveing through the clockworks.

This games only getting bigger, wonder if we'll eventually get a word on this. Even if it was a flat no.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 12:25

Thoranhippo

Well the worst is certainly

Well the worst is certainly that moderators do come across such threads, but NEVER care to answer. This has to be the most upsetting about such issue: they are totally ignored, or they really, really, (really) look like so.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 12:55

Shidara

Legacy Username

Lag, it is everywhere..

I live in Europe, and that basically means that I'm on the other side of the planet, far away from the main hub. With my already rubbish connection, Lockdown is barely, and I do mean just barely, playable. Lagspikes, movement-rollbacks, taking damage before the animation plays, interrupted before unleashing charge because I was already hit a whole second ago, and the list just goes on. While I admit that in many cases I have been beat fair and square, I can not forget those times where I lost because of my connection, and I know for a fact that it is much better than it performs in Lockdown.

I am also looking forward to an answer for the devs, because this is quite an issue to EU players who don't have state-of-the-art tools.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 13:38

Cobaltstarfire

While I was visiting Germany

While I was visiting Germany on basic dsl I did not experience any real problem with lag, I often have worse latency in America actually. Perhaps you should look at your connection or computer before you complain that it's a problem with your distance from a server.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 13:46

Doombexar

Either stop playing LD with

Either stop playing LD with bad connections or move to America. Only two options you got.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 13:50

#10

Madadder

You do realize it's not

You do realize it's not exactly cheap to spread a game across multiple continents, right?

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 13:53

#11

Doombexar

^ What he said. OOO is an

^ What he said. OOO is an Indy company, which means they probably barely have enough money to keep the servers up in the USA, let alone make new ones in Europe for a small majority of people.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 14:01

#12

Thoranhippo

Clearing up again, both my

Clearing up again, both my computer and connexion are more than enough to run an online game.
To answer monkey first, SK invited other communities than americans in their game, by adapting it to them. Sorry for being rude but not putting material meaning behind that is $%!!?@! us from behind this "wall".
Then again some people are less sensitive to connexion than other..or simply do have a better connexion.
And to that guy who said that:"Either stop playing LD with bad connections or move to America. Only two options you got."
Hello, thanks, goodbye.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 14:10

#13

Doombexar

Hi, no problem, but I'm not

Hi, no problem, but I'm not leaving. There's been countless threads like this complaining that they need EU servers, blah blah, people just don't understand thats expensive. Just because "SK invited other communities than americans" doesn't mean that they have to have EU servers for everyone else. OOO can't afford it, get over it, your lag won't go away anytime soon.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 14:12

#14

Iron-Volvametal

Agree with Bexar+monkeyman135

OOO, Indie Company, Not a lot of Servers, a lot of Players, Constant Lag.
Your computer's Speed & awesomeness does not matter, therefore your Argument is Invalid.

You no want Lagz? Give OOO Moneyz or new Servers instead of Whining on deh Forums.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 14:24

#15

Thoranhippo

I have spent about 70$ on

I have spent about 70$ on this game already. No mean to hurt your feelings Iron-thingy but I've seen some smarter and mostly more producive trolls than you. You might just want to use "lighter" words next time you wanna say something.
I don't have the luxury of writing the same things over and over so I'll say it this once for all: German, Spanish, French players are like any other players, they spend money, play the game, eventually enjoy it..with the exception that they are disadvantaged compared to the rest of the community.
I also don't have the luxury of dealing with ragers who seemingly just like to bully OPs so I'll just drop a "Hello, thanks, goodbye" to these concerned people.
Thanks.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 14:37

#16

Iron-Volvametal

Want some Cheese with that Whine?

I'm not a Troll, just a guy who uses Memes/Videos to deh Extremes.
I'm just irritated, that everyone asked for PvP, OOO Delivers, & everyone's whining about how Laggy/Buggy it is. It JUST Came out, be patient.

Enjoy LockDown for nao until OOO gets busy on making the Onlinez easier, k? K.

If you don't want to Play LockDown, then play Blast Network.
If you don't want to play Blast Network, go into the Clockworks.
Don't want to go into the Clockworks, Craft some things.
Don't wanna Craft, go help others.
Don't wanna help, then go Outside/Play some PS3/Xbawx.
Don't wanna go Outside/ Play some games, Sleep.
Don't wanna Sleep...Play LockDown.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 14:37

#17

Doombexar

Bully OPs? Thats a first. No

Bully OPs? Thats a first. No one is "bullying" you, OP, but we are telling you why OOO doesn't have any other servers besides the American ones, and all you're doing is putting your fingers in your eyes and running around yelling "I can't read you, I can't read you, I can't read you" like a giant baby.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 14:51

#18

Thoranhippo

Bexar, I doubt you can tell

Bexar, I doubt you can tell why OOO only has server(s) for americans on their behalf, since you probably don't belong to the management. I'd rather be answered that specific question by a moderator, actually, which is one reason for the thread. Afterwards, you can be sure I won't react well to such proposal as "move to America" or "play another game". Those are silly, irrelevant proposals. That's opinions I'm asking for, and certainly not advices, which sounds more like jokes to me. Is that any clearer to you?
I also don't want to go GodOfSkype1-mode and frantically reply to every post, so kindly leave UNLESS you've got a real opinion to drop which doesn't concern me, but the content of my thread, in a relevant way. I can certainly understand people disagree and find it isn't laggy, because it just might be their case, as I said above, but I won't abide people asking me stupid things.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 15:07

#19

Madadder

all i got left to say is this

all i got left to say is this game hasn't been officially released for very long, i doubt any MMO gets released over the world in that short of time unless its P2P

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 15:08

#20

Bigfootm

What Dark Ritual?

Bexar may not be able to tell you... But I can.

They mainly have American servers because maybe, just maybe they are American based Company?

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 15:14

#21

Thoranhippo

They should have servers in

They should have servers in the other communities because maybe, just maybe they prepared and advertised the game to host them as well? You should probably read above. You're not learning me or anyone anything here. There are plenty online games based in one country but with gamehosts in other countries as well, F2P or P2P, and maybe even not as famous as SK. I have frankly no idea why you even bothered saying that; it was just useless...

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 15:28

#22

Lithanium

I wish i could answer your question.

Unfortunately, i do not belong to three rings design. So my answer is an assumption, at best.

As many albeit rude people have mentioned, three rings is unable to draw the funds to create servers across the globe. The result is lag, and dominance to American players, who have a less chance of being affected by latency issues.

Now thoran, while i do live in America, i fully support you. It does not seem fair at all for players from EU to be unable to experience these new updates. Or any non-north American country.

The worst news is that i am unable to find a possible... conclusion for this dilemma. I wish you luck hearing from a real developer.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 16:36

#23

Xylka-Mkii

i agree to lithan. However if

i agree to lithan.

However if someone donates a bunch of money to them we aren't getting servers in Europe, Australia etc.
Although I am in America, I support your arguement fully. We should have global servers but I guess unless everyone buys CE with real money everyday they wont have the funds. (Even though SEGA published this)

Bleh guess we will have to deal with lag. I too get it in LD a lot and it REALLLY makes me mad. But then again were all stuck with like 10 servers in California....

guess we're screwed at the moment :/

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 19:10

#24

Mohandar

There's a couple things at

There's a couple things at play here, but it's important to distinguish between latency and lag. Latency refers to the time it takes for the information to go from your computer, over the net to the server, and back. Latency can also happen when traffic between you and the server is poorly routed or forced to take longer routes due to traffic. A high latency connection means your actions will always be a few hundred milliseconds behind, but this is playable in most single/coop play situations because enemies telegraph their attacks well in advance. Exceptions like Devilites are already major headaches for high-latency players, but competitive multiplayer is simply impossible.
Lag refers to jerkiness in-game, and can be caused by many sources. Client-side lag can occur if your graphics card can't handle rendering fast enough, or you can have lag due to information (packets) not reaching their destination. In the latter case, it could be due to server overload or too much traffic on local (or any in-between) infrastructure. Laggy games are unplayable because you will be constantly warped to locations the server thinks you are at; laggy, high-latency games doubly more so.

With this in mind, I have some observations gleaned from forums and my experience/knowledge:
1. Cloud servers necessarily result in higher latency than a dedicated game server.
2. Overseas players will necessarily have higher latency and be more prone to lag from traffic (despite the fact that locally, most of them have MUCH better internet service than Americans)
3. The US telcom giants have incredibly s***** infrastructure, so if you're signed on to one of them (due to lack of choice) then SK will be very laggy and/or high latency during peak usage times. So it's not all sugar and roses for us here either.

I am in the US, unfortunately in an area where TimeWarner holds sway. I have noticed a very regular pattern to my latency and lag: latency goes into the crapper around 5pm until around midnight, and the times I have been available to check, peaks (hits minimum) at around 9am (it probably happens earlier, but I'm not around to play). I have relatively little lag, but the highest amounts also occur during those peak usage times.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 19:26

#25

Bong

I dont think OOO is bias to

I dont think OOO is bias to anyone, it was your choice to play this game, OOO could have easily do a IP blocks to stop other people from playing like from SEA.

I doubt they have the obligation to make another server somewhere else when they might have judge that their main community would be the Americans. Either they have never that there would be a big group of people playing from other country OR in fact, there is only a minor few players from far away countries that they do not need to make one to accommodate them.

I am from SEA, i play LD, i too face this problem. but i know i would rather keep my mouth shut and pray they do something to improve rather then try and ask for something and end up pissing them off and have a IP block.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 20:48

#26

zennyplus

Legacy Username

@ Thoran

Gotta agree with you there. Players outside of the US are feeling the pinch of lag often, I know. It may be some time before the company can open new servers to other locations around the world. I just don't get why some of the posters here are being insensitive.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 00:52

#27

BiggestLoser

Legacy Username

Zelda

#8 i second that
im german and it only lags at particular timings for me, which i try to avoid

it doesnt matter anyways, since u win mostly by coloring stuff, all u need is a team, that actually does that..and even in my laggy times i can manage to stand in the big circles, altho i sometimes have to move when it lags me away, but its not that much of an issue

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 03:05

#28

Axylus

Translation: “You shouldn't

[Insert post that I can't quote because this forum doesn't support quoting, unlike every other forum in existence, here.]

Translation: “You shouldn't dare ask for improvements to a service that you're paying for because you live in a foreign country. You should be grateful that you and every other foreign player haven't already been blocked from playing the game.”

I love reading this forum. This is by far the most absurd post I've read this week. It amazes me how many people are horrified at the mere suggestion of improving something. :)

I think meaini forgot that there's no shortage of online games hosted in America that international players are able to play without latency issues. Assuming that the game's servers are hosted on a connection with high latency and can't be moved (which will only harm the game in the long term), why then couldn't you just group players into teams according to their network latency?

I'm not entirely convinced that the latency issues in the Colosseum are caused by the servers being hosted on a slow connection because I don't experience the same horrific desynchronisation in the Clockworks.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 04:19

#29

Dirt

Legacy Username

@Thoran

connexion

What were you thinking?

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 04:40

#30

gell

Legacy Username

I am in California and I find

I am in California and I find the lag unbearable. I play TF2 just fine with 23 ping to my favorite servers, but with full bars, depending on who I'm fighting in Lockdown, i could be hit from across the map (could it be YOU?). Perhaps the latency goes both ways. I can swing my sword at someone who is point blank, but not hit them, and they can hit me from 15 feet away. To combat this, sometimes I see a striker flying towards me from the edge of the screen so I just swing my sword way before he gets to me and BAM he's down. It's a game of learning who has bad ping and having to adjust myself to them.

So actually, I think people overseas have the advantage because your latency is high in almost all cases vs others, so you can learn to predict how long the delay is. For me, if I try to beat latency by swinging early, it could be someone else in America and I end up getting hit because I swung too early, or it could be someone with 150 ping or 300 ping. I have to adjust for them instead! It's no coincidence that it gets worse as the night goes on because there must be less players in North America. This is partly why many MMOs have region blocks.

Do you like how I turned it around and made it your fault? :)

OOO does need to get with the times. I don't care how small their team is. I've worked alone and in a large game company. They are basically using net code from 1998. Quake 3 had less latency issues than this, on my 56k modem. Love the game mode, hate the terrible amateur net code they've used. Try some lag compensation, programmers. This doesn't take a large team. Budget the time and money for this because it's worth it. It's not actually a big budget commitment; but it's an executive decision someone needs to make or it won't get done. And as nice as it would be for non-NA players, having extra servers/hosts, staff for them is a much bigger hurdle. Coding better code is not a big hurdle. It's been done in many many games. SK has god awful lag from a technical standpoint.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 07:16

#31

Thoranhippo

Lag/latency should be among

Lag/latency should be among the prime concerns of any real-time gameplay MMORPG companies..apart from content, nothing can spoil more the experience of a player.
@gell: lol..well turned! :)
and thanks to all the supporters above, its hard to figure wether you're saying **** or not if no one can confirm!

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 07:47

#32

Richy

Yet another thread you

Yet another thread you complain in.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 07:48

#33

Thoranhippo

Yet another troll in this

Yet another troll in this thread; just hello, thanks and goodbye.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 09:41

#34

Bangslash

OOO has reinvented the wheel poorly

TF2 is a high-speed action game that lets you set up a game server and solve the lag problem.

SK is a high-speed action game that forces you to use their server. The foundations of SK's infrastructure are needlessly defective. But, hey, you can't fix stupid.

Edit: verb/noun agreement

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 09:46

#35

Thoranhippo

Just played one random Blast

Just played one random Blast Network game (which I hadn't tried for a couple monthes) in teams...all in all in just one game I've been struck by something around 20 lag freezes (meaning I lose the lead of what happens on the screen, characters get out of the map and of course I can't see anyhow what the others are doing). And it certainly wasn't my connexion. Okay nobody plays Blast Network anymore but still; insanely unplayable, even way worst than Lockdown

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 10:35

#36

Blanky

OOO can't really afford

OOO can't really afford servers in Europe/Asia. You just have to live with it.

Either donate money to them or something. idk

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 11:14

#37

Thoranhippo

If I posted this obviously

If I posted this obviously its because neither of your 2 options are satisfying. Besides of that they can afford paying GMs for other communities, so why not server(s) as well? So please spare me that kind of silly, extremely predictable comment in the future. If starting from not even 6pm at my time the server is already too crowded to offer me proper gaming condition it obviously testimonies of a bad management of the online traffic, which has to be discussed and considered seriously. That wouldn't be pulling the game up to just "live with all its problems", don't you think so?

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 11:31

#38

The-Ancient-One

I'd agree with Thoran,

I'd agree with Thoran, actually. All buying a decent server anywhere really costs is around 20-30USD a month( http://bstack.net/hosting/ , for example).... if OOO can't invest in buying that- which would actually help them get players there, then I don't know how they can pay for the American ones. They don't have to set up a whole base in the Netherlands or anything, just hire a server someplace there.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 11:47

#39

Dirt

Legacy Username

@Thoran

Just played one random Blast Network game (which I hadn't tried for a couple monthes) in teams...

Blast network came out at the beginning of last month, some six weeks ago.

connexion

connection [kuh-nek-shuhn]
con·nec·tion [kuh-nek-shuhn]
noun
1. the act or state of connecting.
2. the state of being connected: the connection between cause and effect.
3. anything that connects; connecting part; link; bond: an electrical connection.
4. association; relationship: the connection between crime and poverty; no connection with any other firm of the same name.
5. a circle of friends or associates or a member of such a circle.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 11:55

#40

Thoranhippo

Hello, thanks, goodbye Dirt.

Hello, thanks, goodbye Dirt. Read above, trolls with no serious/relevant opinion (like they could drop any) can just get out. Gee why is that so hard to understand?
No seriously, you got no better thing to do than spell me connection? In my country its spelled connexion, I'm not English as a matter of fact and spelt it the wrong way as an abuse of language, who in the world cares? Go play with your **** or anything that could definitely keep you out of these forums, for god's sake.

On a sidenote, I'm proud to announce you ought to be the saddest, most presumptuous annoying egocentric boring brainless sick and stupid troll, ever.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 12:01

#41

Dirt

Legacy Username

What opinion do you want me

What opinion do you want me to share? I think it sucks that you live too far from the server to play well, but I'm also sick of all these complaining threads. Do you think the developers and general staff don't read the forums? All you do is complain, so I'm sure they've already seen one of your numerous threads. Have you put in a support ticket to see if they are planning any overseas servers? Have you posted in Technical Support to see if someone can help you there?

I don't know if you have done those and if you have with all negative results then I am sorry, but you should just give up. The only people you are obviously going to get a response from in these threads are the players who are tired of complaining, like myself.

Lastly, I don't care how it's spelled in your country. You are posting in an English section and it is spelled connection in the English language.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 12:03

#42

Thoranhippo

If you have nothing to share,

If you have nothing to share, don't share anything. Not out troll, out!:3

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 12:08

#43

Dirt

Legacy Username

@Fehzor

Webhosting != game hosting

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 14:23

#44

Iron-Volvametal

@Thoran Do you think EVERYONE on the Forums is a Troll?

Then Gtfo, ignorant Bewb.
http://myfacewhen.com/51/

EDIT: Oh & Hello. Thanks. Bai. :)

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 15:38

#45

Richy

I am proud to announce Thoran

I am proud to announce Thoran is one of the most annoying people to post on this forum. He actually thinks anyone gives a crap about what he complains about(its a once a month thing). Please go back to complaining about CE prices kthnxbai.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 15:53

#46

Madadder

the irony here is Thoran

the irony here is Thoran himself is a troll telling other trolls "don't troll" by trolling them harder, since trolling is a sure fire way to get trolls to troll his own troll thread, in essence to bump this thread up.

it would be best to cease posting here guys.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 16:04

#47

Speetz131

Legacy Username

Ever played a Korean MMO?

PvP in general, following our train of thought, is biased towards whatever country the game is based. Of course there is an advantage if your from NA; there are probably more players here than there is in any other specific country or region. Games that are localized in other countries could have the same situation simply because they are localized there.

Eventually if this game actually has enough players or grows enough, there will probably be dedicated servers for other regions.

In the mean time, you'll prolly have to build a bridge.

And get over it. :P

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 18:37

#48

Melisan

i'm in the UK, i have a good

i'm in the UK, i have a good connection and a good machine, i win nearly every LD game i play in at the top of the table (most captures/damage).
So ..............Shh

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 18:57

#49

Pawn

@ OP

I am in america and play on a computer strong enough to run sk and have good internet.

Yet i suffer from latency and lag as well. This is not an overseas problem so much as simply a SK problem. Believe me, americans don't have this magical spiral knights experience.

People love to come on the forums and talk about how wonderful their connection is, and i think this gives many the wrong impression. Regardless of the 100's of people who rave about their great connect, i've never played i a party where every member didn't complain about massive lag. It's just 1 of those things where people like to come on the internet and make ridiculous 'i'm on the internet' type claims.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 09:12

#50

Crawdaunt

Legacy Username

It's pretty hilarious how you

It's pretty hilarious how you just spout the world troll at any post telling you how much of a self-entitled baby you are, OP. You know something? Life isn't fair sometimes. OOO made the game available to you; why do you think they should owe you anything more than that? If they want to take an interest in expanding their servers to better support European customers, they will. It's just an unfortunate fact that you live in Europe and play an American game. There's nothing you can do about it.

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