All I have to say is that I hope I end up in a game with all the "anti-nerfers" on my team, and all the "pro-nerfers" on the enemy team.

Oh, wait, actually, this whole debacle reminds me of something. Some of you are probably familiar with Magic: the Gathering, and are (hopefully) familiar with the terms Timmy, Johnny, and Spike. The three player demographics. The TL;DR of that article is this - Timmy plays Magic because he likes to play Magic, and therefore plays fun spells and creatures (regardless of whether or not they're 'good'). Johnny plays Magic to express himself, he wants to do something truly unique, and so puts together offbeat and odd decks (often combo decks). Spike plays Magic to win, because he sees his victory as personal success, and losing as personal failure. What's going on here is a conflict between those three psychograpic profiles. Timmy is mad because Spike is being Spike, Spike is mad because Timmy is trying to force him to use weaker gear, and Johnny is mad because he sees everyone using the same cookie-cutter builds. Not everyone plays Spiral Knights for the same reason as you, but you can't force a change on anyone just because you don't think they should be playing that way.

To use your own categorization argument against you, these "pro-nerfer" types typically fall into one of two categories:

1)People who are awful at the game in general, and blame all their losses on players with marginally better gear.
2)People who genuinely feel that certain gear is overpowered and that a balance should be achieved.

The second group is good. People should desire a balanced gameplay system (see: Starcraft). The first is not good, they want to alter the gameplay at the expense of other players. A far, far, better solution that will likely go much less unopposed is the aforementioned buffing. I don't know how anyone could get into a big discussion about nerfing and completely forget about buffing. If you buff the weaker gear up some, you will bring it in line with the more popular gear, but not at the expense of all the players who went through the trouble to get the popular gear. This is both an obvious solution, and would still help with any balancing issues.

You also have to realize that there will almost always be balancing issues, especially in a PvP game. Why do you think Guild Wars goes through a round of buffing and nerfing almost once a month (sometimes more)? The saying goes, "you can't please everyone," and no matter how much balancing effort the devs put into the game, there will ALWAYS be someone who feels the current state of the game is unbalanced. Because of that, the common reaction will be to categorize the complainers into the first group.

Don't be a first group guy. Balance is good, but it should be achieved with minimal detriment to the maximum number of players.

Standard load out :
Skolver Set
Barbarous Thorn Shield
2 Elite Quick Strikes.

I am not leet
I am not pro
I am not noob
I am not spike, jimmy or timmy.

I play this game for fun.
I have had this loadout since before pvp and completed it after blast network released (as do many other players of all other skill and player types)
in pvp I find myself beaten down frequently. often just as much as I'm delivering the beat down.

So what this means is : I didn't (again as many others have not) built this to make myself superior to other players. It serves my purposes to reach my goals.

All this seems to be is a sore loser finding some way to ease the pain of getting whupped.
Or a pseudo elitist finding some means of bringing down the majority, of which they don't consider themselves.
Mostly because they deliberately set themselves apart in the first place.

So, in short. quit B****ing and get back to playing this game. otherwise quit and find something else to play. you really are just making it less enjoyable for yourself.

EDIT: something else I would like to point out: if you ARE getting whipped, and you blame "overpowered" builds, reconsider your build first. maybe there is a flaw you missed, particularly one that does not play well to your style.

I had this problem with some equips I was using. found out the cap to boosts and realized I could distribute that boost elsewhere (from attack to speed and ctr)

and to give a little : if you had to nerf the armor, best you could do is give it status weakness. god I hate stun

@Mysterise

Did you even read the posts? Some of the posts supported your position in some senses or another, for instance the posts from Eldibs and Eradicats were well written yet you speak nothing to them.

I was disappointed in your reply, and your TL;DR doesn't even make sense.

I feel like we've all been trolled. Should we just sit down and discuss how you are the SK god?

alot of words up there :O
well im not gonna make my post long
it doesnt need any changes, get used to them and soon u will find urself easily taking ppl with these items easily ;) u just need to get some LD experience
for vog use piercing or shadow damage(BTB/FF/Blitz Needle/GF/Sentenza.........ect), and for DA/GF/Polaris use ele/shadow def(Divine set)

How about, instead of nerfing items that don't need to be nerfed because they aren't even that OP to begin with, aside from may be the DA's Charge attack, we make the other weapons and armors better.

Besides, I didn't hear Levi blade in there being considered OP. People use that blade all the time. Must be OP right? Just like Vog and Skolver and, pffft, Gran faust?

They aren't op, they aren't even above average. They're just good. There's plenty of armor sets and the like out there which are "good" without being overpowered.

Just because you don't like seeing some items and weapons, doesn't mean you should nerf them to uselessness so you can get sick of other weapons.

I mean, honestly, I would sign this petition, even as wearing vog cub, if they actually were over powered, but they're not overpowered in the slightest. They're decent. The only reason Vog Cub looks so OP is because the end game boss uses mostly elemental and fire. Therefore, popular. What we need is some more end game bosses to make more gear popular. Like a shadow / Curse boss, or a piercing / poison boss. Something like that.

How about, instead of nerfing items that don't need to be nerfed because they aren't even that OP to begin with, aside from may be the DA's Charge attack, we make the other weapons and armors better.

Because buffing everything else will remove the challenge from the game, unless you also buff the monsters. And if you buff everything else and buff the monsters, you have effectively nerfed the OP stuff.

There really should be many different kinds of armor/weapons that allow for a variety of fun game play. As pointed out above, the bomber/gunner equivalents of the vog cub/skolver really suck. They don't give equally good weapon bonuses, their resistances are usually not as useful and even the amount of normal damage protection is less. The polaris is so popular in part because it is the only gun that is really competitive with swords. Sadly, the polaris is a pain for groups.

As far petitions go, my experience with OOO is that they don't care at all about the number of people supporting or rejecting a position, they care about the quality/strength of the arguments on each side an the merits of the proposal. In rare cases, I've posted proposals that very likely trigged OOO to implement them in OOO's puzzle pirates game when I've gotten *ZERO* feedback from other players and one where the only feedback from other players was negative (oh, don't nerf that!). Most of the time, however, players feedback gets put in a pot on the back burner and stewed for a long time.

Do the best you can to express your arguments as clearly as you can and hope your input gets thrown in the pot and maybe the pot gets moved to the front burner.

well i agree with u but if ur guardian, full vog set (even with using GF and DA) there arent a threat unless ur mobbed of course but ive gotten mobbed sometimes but most of them die b4 i do. i have to admit though that i do use dark thorn blade but on guardian is not as cheap as recon.....and also dark thorn blade dont need to be nerfed.....its just skolver set and maybe the sword damage med trinket

heres how u fix this problem
1. t2 LD (just wear 3* or 2* to go in)
2. quit the game :P

Thats what you call "getting owned"

Eldibs, there's nothing inherently wrong with buffing other gear to bring it in line with the strongest Lockdown gear, but to balance the game in this way would require buffing nearly all of the weapons.

Doing so could, in turn, cause imbalance in the PvE portion of the game, the clockworks.
The simpler, less-likely-to-turn-the-game-upside-down solution is to nerf the small handful of weapons that are proving themselves vastly superior to all else. Buffing is acceptable as well, but involves more work for the same effect.

Regardless of whether weapons are buffed or nerfed for Lockdown balance, care must be taken not to upset PvE. That means scrutinizing the differences between a good PvP weapon (startup lag, cooldown lag, range, etc), and a good PvE weapon (knockback, mob control, weapon type, etc) and working with those.

Also, there's a much simpler name for your "group 1" type. It's called a scrub :]

"Monsterminty is a clear example of what I mean by a little kid with vog & op gear"
maybe he can't read at all panda.

Ok my loadout (as above)
Skolver coat med elemental
Divine veil low shadow,shock,fire
Combuster
Storm Driver
Final Flourish

No DA,GF or Vog cub.
next.......
oh and fernpanda, this WHOLE post it a troll.

Seriously, when I see Skolver + Babarous in LD, I just run away. WAY too much power.

Ok, first of all I'm not anglophone, so excuse me for my English.

it's been a while since I played LD, so I don't know if it is unchanged, but from my past observations LD is unbalanced, because of especially the first two aspects of the game I will mention, so imo what should be changed is :

First : the hearts trinkets shouldn't be allowed to strikers, it makes them litteraly tanks that can dash, that's nonsense imo, I think the way strikers should be are glass-cannons that have mobility and high dmg dealers. This way it should leave to guardians their characteristic of being though, tanks, and it would add spice for playing striker, as you know you have to be more focus on not getting hit; also players with skills would be rewarded this way. Just this change would balance a lot the game. Same sort of changes for the other classes, I think you get my point.

Secondly, I propose to put in place a system of nemesis classes : each class should be the class that can kill one the two other classes easily, what I propose for example is the following :

Guardians > Strikers >Recons >Guardians

Guardians should be the nemesis of the strikers and strikers the nemesis of the recons and recons the nemesis of guardians.

With this the pvp will be more strategic, no more full strikers team in both sides lool, each class is more usefull in the field, and have their role, advantage weakness.

Third (Optional) : prohibit auto-aim in LD, I think for this there is no need to add further comments lol, they can leave it, with the two changes I talked about before, it's really not an issue, but I think it would make no room to no-skills play (BTB, FF, APM...If you know what I mean ;)...).

Fourth (Optionnal): Add more specific classes please ! Gunners, Samurai, Assassin, Templar etc...With each having a specific capacity, bonuses etc...Like for example how Guardian can heal, shield etc...And make it so we have to deblock them, this way is more gratifying. But again be careful with the balance lol...

With all this said, in my humble opinion, LD will be balanced, will have a much more strategic aspect to it, and gives a feeling of accomplishment when you succeed with a class.

Hope the developers will take this comment into account, if you agree guys, +1 and make it so they consider this seriously.

EDIT : after noticing all this said, I think it is better to create a new post for this one.

Valkyrise really didn't seen difference between overpowered and overused, that's all. Good thing he's quit long time ago.

Also, lots of necromancers around, this one thread is almost alive now ;D

...let's just be quiet and let this thread die
(Also, - 1: direct damage defences need more of a buff in PvP instead.)

only thing(s) i can say is you have bigger problems trying to balance trinkets/uv's in LD

weapons are fine as they are and so are the armor sets.

so in short, it's LD that needs a balance not the game needing a nerf. (sorry but i hate lockdown and i'm getting pretty fed up with the constant "nerf this nerf that because lockdown is full of noobs" topics)

not a troll at you, just a bit of critisism against general LD nerf topics