Spiral Knights - [New FSC/IMF] General Feedback to OOO's Questions in the Mail

[New FSC/IMF] General Feedback to OOO's Questions in the Mail - Please everyone come here ! :)

28 replies [Last post]

Sat, 10/08/2011 - 13:24

Pookycakes

Hellow everyone,

From the mail we all received from OOO, they specifically asked us to answer 4 questions about the new levels. We could use these to quickly give them a feedback about today's testing party :)

To make it easier for the developers to gather data, please only post once per player. Just copy paste the questions below and fill it with your answers :)

Only quickly answer the questions then move on, do not use this thread to chat about the new content so everything looks tidy ;)

Thanks! :)
Cootiecakes

I basically paraphrased OOO's questions below :

______________________________

1/ What do you think about the general difficulty level of Ultimate IMF and/or Ultimate FSC ?
Answer:

2/ How many revives did you use in Ultimate IMF and/or Ultimate FSC ?
Answer:

3/ Which areas do you feel could be improved ?
Answer:

4/ If you feel like you've already mastered the current Tier 3, do you think the new content is challenging enough for you ?
Answer:

5/ (Special Question) Add anything you would like to tell them about here :)
Answer:

_______________________________

Sat, 10/08/2011 - 13:37

Poul

1/ What do you think about

1/ What do you think about the general difficulty level of Ultimate IMF and/or Ultimate FSC ?
Answer:Only tested FSC, its difficult, challenging, the levels are ok, vanaduke it's too difficult. Some stages of duke are almost impossible to dodge with low framerate.

2/ How many revives did you use in Ultimate IMF and/or Ultimate FSC ?
Answer: around 8 on the citadel, too many to be counted at Vanaduke

3/ Which areas do you feel could be improved ?
Answer: All of it, sorry for cheap feedback but just redisigning the levels with same theme and graphics it's not exciting

4/ If you feel like you've already mastered the current Tier 3, do you think the new content is challenging enough for you ?
Answer: Yes, pretty much. Still not enough motivation to play this 'new' content.

5/ (Special Question) Add anything you would like to tell them about here :)
Answer: http://forums.spiralknights.com/es/node/28252#comment-166326

Sat, 10/08/2011 - 19:47

Pookycakes

1/ What do you think about

1/ What do you think about the general difficulty level of Ultimate IMF and/or Ultimate FSC ?
Answer: IMF's difficulty level is challenging but acceptable. However the new FSC is simply insanely hard.

2/ How many revives did you use in Ultimate IMF and/or Ultimate FSC ?
Answer: To be honest I lost count about the number of revives in the new FSC. I know i clicked on the 1000 CE revive button several times though...

3/ Which areas do you feel could be improved ?
Answer: There was a big improvement in some of the FSC rooms which featured LESS spikes than Original FSC. Instead of having spikes, they were often replaced by the "energy balls clock hand", which is good thing. Most players with high ping use to die by "lagging" into spikes, which is by far the most frustrating death experience possible because there is absolutely 0 personal error involved in this kind of death. Less spikes in future levels would be better in my opinion, even if it means more monsters. (Dying from them is at least less frustrating...)

4/ If you feel like you've already mastered the current Tier 3, do you think the new content is challenging enough for you ?
Answer: The new FSC is way too hard, even for me who can solo the entire "normal" FSC with 0 to 2 revives. As it is now, i dont know anyone who would risk so much CE reviving to complete a 1 hour dungeon; and that regardless of the rewards... If the new content end up to be "Hard" versions of the existing Boss Stratum, it will only be as repetitive and déjà vu as the existing levels to us, but now with Extra Frustration from the difficulty...

5/ (Special Question) Add anything you would like to tell them about here :)
Answer: There is a minor balancing issue that comes with new FSC as the entire Angelic line armor would take again another blow compared to the others. Valkyrie has always been one of the less used armor in the game but features Maximum Curse protection, which could be good for the new FSC. However the Maximum Fire Weakness makes it impossible to use.

Same goes for the Fallen Set which is now even harder to use than a Valkyrie Set within the new FSC. One curse from a zombie adds a 60 seconds penalty to every single weapons and vials, making it impossible for every Angelic Armor line users to enter the new FSC dungeon. And even worse, Angelic line is usually generally bad for any other stratums. (0 Piercing for Jelly King, 0 Elemental for overly present Status damage)

On the other hand, what is the most popular and best set for Original FSC is still the best one for New FSC (Vog). As a result, this might very well rise the popularity of a single armor even more, making Vogs as numerous as Newbie Proto armors around Haven.

Sun, 10/09/2011 - 14:49

Bluemach

1/ What do you think about

1/ What do you think about the general difficulty level of Ultimate IMF and/or Ultimate FSC ?
Answer: The difficulty of Ultimate IMF seemed be harder while the RTs seemed to be just as easy as the normal RT( didnt die at all). The difficulty of FSC was A LOT harder and definitely liked the challenge and the new zombies/slags ( died around 10 times , not including vanaduke). The curse status makes it a lot more interesting and now curse uvs have a purpose. Vanaduke is pretty insane and used a ton of revives ( the difficulty shouldn't be changed since the whole purpose of this update is to make the game more challenging)

2/ How many revives did you use in Ultimate IMF and/or Ultimate FSC ?
Answer: IMF: zero. FSC: 10ish

3/ Which areas do you feel could be improved ?
Answer: Definitely IMF overall. The levels and RT need to be harder. Definitely a bigger pay out for FSC and IMF. Need more CR and maybe increase the chances of items appearing from green and red boxes. Perhaps Vanaduke could deal some shadow/curse dmg as well? It would make it that more challenging and you would really need to decide on what gear to bring with you.

4/ If you feel like you've already mastered the current Tier 3, do you think the new content is challenging enough for you ?
Answer: As for Tier 3( FSC), I feel like a lot of players made it to vanaduke without dying much (3-4) or not at all. I think the difficulty could be increased ( add some more fire pits and spikes in areas where there are none, like depth 2, where the key is in the middle of the room and you need to hit all four switches so the slags will appear). I know some/a lot of players may find it difficult at first but in time, it will be just as easy as it is now. Make it more challenging, maybe introduce new monsters in FSC that players will have to change the way they play in order to progress? ( besides changing the way slags appear and a status effect). Add more rooms to make it more unique? Maybe a couple puzzle rooms? Different objective, instead of rescuing the spirits again? Possibly add more of the monsters in certain rooms without making it a huge cluster. I feel like we need new content/ new bosses. No repeats.

5/ (Special Question) Add anything you would like to tell them about here :)
Answer: The pay outs definitely need to be increased substantially. If this is to make things more challenging then the pay outs need to be increased. More CR for both IMF and FSC and maybe increase the chances of items being dropped from boxes ( even if its very minor, still gives players a reason to play it). Perhaps make RT and Vanaduke drop "elite tokens" instead of the regular tokens. Very disappointed to see that they dropped regular tokens. I saw that you guys increased the number tokens dropped,I received 6 from vanaduke. The elite tokens can be used to purchase new items from the token guy ( weapons, helmets, armor, guns, swords, and bombs). The last time items were added to the game was the first pvp game, blast network. There were no new helmets and armor that were introduced, so maybe this would be a good chance to implement some new ones.

Sat, 10/08/2011 - 13:57

Khamsin

"2/ How many revives did you

"2/ How many revives did you use in Ultimate IMF and/or Ultimate FSC ?
Answer: around 8 on the citadel, too many to be counted at Vanaduke"

How are you saying it is too easy when you used 8 revives in the Citadel? Please explain.

"Answer: The new FSC is way too hard, even for me who can solo the entire "normal" FSC with 0 to 2 revives. As it is now, i dont know anyone who would risk so much CE reviving to complete a 1 hour dungeon; and that regardless of the rewards... "

It is meant to be a challenge to player's who are bored of current end-game content and want a real challenge. The content feels fairly solid to me - my only problem is that they had us test bosses that are fairly crummy. I know they don't want to spoil anything, but I would be preferred to have gotten a taste of what they're actually cooking up.

Sat, 10/08/2011 - 14:02

Biznasty

Might aswell.

1/ What do you think about the general difficulty level of Ultimate IMF and/or Ultimate FSC ?
Answer: Not too bad. Ultimate FSC honestly felt easier than the normal one at a couple of points, and all in all, it wasn't really so hard, with the proper organization and caution. Vanaduke was pretty much the same thing. Ultimate IMF felt really cluttered up, though - couldn't see rockets coming at some points, and mobs would often pop up from nowhere and instantly attack us. Although this was only a first run, so it might be okay. Would have to run more times to know. Roarmulus was really the same thing aswell. Still very easy, still just a waiting battle, still takes forever if you're not lucky.

2/ How many revives did you use in Ultimate IMF and/or Ultimate FSC ?
Answer: Ultimate FSC: Only used one or two revives (party total) at the final room of Smoldering Steps, I believe. A couple deaths, didn't quite keep count, but was probably over 7. Had to use two more revives at Vanaduke's second mask phase, though I got sort of tired on the final phase since there was nothing actually new, and wanted to finish it quickly to head off to IMF, so I revived a lot there. Didn't keep count of deaths.

Ultimate IMF: Didn't quite keep count of the revives, but I believe it was at least five or so. None on Roarmulus - only two or three deaths total.

3/ Which areas do you feel could be improved ?
Answer: Pretty much everything - I don't think players will be really interested in just harder remakes of boss stratums we have all already done. Some actual new hazards, mobs and attacks would be really appreciated. Probably entirely new levels, aswell - reroutes and redesigns of the usual stuff didn't feel very interesting. IMF in particular, should be a little less cluttered, in my opinion.

4/ If you feel like you've already mastered the current Tier 3, do you think the new content is challenging enough for you ?
Answer: Not exactly. IMF mainly caught me by surprise, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have much difficulty with it after a bit of practice. FSC, Vanaduke and Roarmulus weren't very challenging. All in all, it's certainly more challenging than normal levels, but myself, it's not quite what I'd call "truly challenging".

5/ (Special Question) Add anything you would like to tell them about here :)
Answer: In addition to more actual new hazards, mobs and levels rather than just remakes/redesigns, decent rewards. Nobody is going to care if you're going to get just 2x more tokens for something with this large of a difference in difficulty. The crown reward needs to be better, and some unique items would be great aswell.

Sat, 10/08/2011 - 14:03

Khamsin

"Nobody is going to care if

"Nobody is going to care if you're going to get just 2x more tokens for something with this large of a difference in difficulty. The crown reward needs to be better, and some unique items would be great aswell."

Pretty much all of the feedback you said summed up my feelings, but this is probably the most important part. If the rewards aren't significant enough, people will just beat it and then go back to farming FSC once they've gotten a perfect run.

Sat, 10/08/2011 - 15:47

Michaelb

1: Well, I tested both, and

1: Well, I tested both, and found them very enjoyable. In general, I found the levels to be challenging, but not outrageous.

2:I'm really not sure... I got to 1,000 energy charge though, and used that many times. This was not because I died of the difficulty of the levels, but because I figured out that I could simply kamikaze and revive again.

3:I think that it could be improved in general, meaning that it was not very exciting to me as no "plot" was introduced, and the levels were just more difficult variations of themselves.

4:I think I have mastered tier 3, and the levels were certainly challenging enough :P

5:Eh, there was a hole in one of the battle stages in fsc. I dropped a bomb in it, and the bomb fell down all the way to where the lava was. The effect still applied to the enemies, it was just that the graphics happened at the surface of the lava.

Sat, 10/08/2011 - 17:29

Cobalt

fffffffff

1/ What do you think about the general difficulty level of Ultimate IMF and/or Ultimate FSC ?

Answer: They weren't that hard, the only thing that kept killing me over and over, was the lag. In the last room of Smoldering Steps, I would have like... 5 FPS, I was flying everywhere and slags were flying everywhere. Once I got to Vanaduke, I lagged out on the first stage. Normal Vanaduke doesn't lag me at all, so yeah. Cause of severe lag, I didn't even touch IMF, I have a feeling it's worse then the normal one.

2/ How many revives did you use in Ultimate IMF and/or Ultimate FSC ?

Answer: A. Lot.

3/ Which areas do you feel could be improved ?

Answer: They were fine, but I see OOO loves to spam flame grates and traps. Speaking of traps, I agree with Biz, instead of changing the status, come up with some new traps.

4/ If you feel like you've already mastered the current Tier 3, do you think the new content is challenging enough for you ?

Answer: It was challenging cause I was lagging so hard. ;_____________;

rant rant rant

[tart tart]

Sat, 10/08/2011 - 19:06

Benb

I didn't have enough time to

I didn't have enough time to solo FSC, so I'll only speak for IMF, which I did solo. (The answers to the questions probably would be a fair amount different if I'd gone with a group, but I was kind of in a rush and just started a party.)

1.What do you think about the general difficulty level of Ultimate IMF and/or Ultimate FSC ?
Answer: Some parts were quite tough, some parts were fairly easy. The most difficult fight by far was the one right before the Twins, where you have to hit the switches to hit the blocks with missiles. Admittedly, I didn't figure out it would be a lot easier to kill the enemies and then man the switches until the end of the fight.

2. How many revives did you use in Ultimate IMF and/or Ultimate FSC ?
Answer: Many. I used the 1000 CE revive midway through the 2nd depth. I wasn't really concerned about the reviving costs, and just wanted to quickly get to the Twins, which were quite a letdown.

3. Which areas do you feel could be improved ?
Answer: Everything, especially the boss. Basically, it was a rerun of the original IMF. The Twins were almost 100% the same as well, and I was hoping the boss would at least be a little more different. It might be little presumptuous of me to think that this is content whose main purpose is to provide something new and fresh for veteran players, but I don't think anyone would do a run of this unless they just wanted to do a more challenging run because they were bored. Granted, this could be exactly what OOO wanted to do, which I guess wouldn't be so bad. Still, I was hoping for some more originality. The words "multiple tier 3 boss strata" really perked my ears up. I'm glad Crazyoddbaa said this wasn't all there would be, in any case.

4. If you feel like you've already mastered the current Tier 3, do you think the new content is challenging enough for you ?
Answer: I'm not quite at the playing level of a lot of well-known players such as Rits or any other guildmasters of well-known guilds, but I've certainly "mastered" tier 3 in the sense that the only really difficult part of PvE for me is the Vanaduke fight. That said, yes, I do think these new levels will be adequately challenging. I also agree with Biznasty that maybe Ultimate IMF wouldn't be so hard with practice. From what I've heard, Ultimate FSC is a much more demanding task.

5. (Special Question) Add anything you would like to tell them about here :)
Answer: Well, among a few other things, I'd like to see some new armor that's sort of tailor-made these new levels. Right now, full Vog is the almost universal choice for the Firestorm Citadel, so surely it's only normal that there would be armor that works very well with Ultimate FSC. Or maybe that's part of the challenge...

Sat, 10/08/2011 - 23:40

#10

Repartee

Updated from both runs

1/ What do you think about the general difficulty level of Ultimate IMF and/or Ultimate FSC ?
Answer:
IMF-
Just ran IMF, general difficulty is on par for what I'd expect of the new content. The switch room was a bit of a headache for me but there might be an increased level of difficulty if you cut off the lower area out of use. After I had gotten chain shocked to death I found it easier to kite mobs down there, kill them and then run back up to do a circuitous route to finish with not being hit anymore. Unless I got shocked while switching gates.

FSC-
FSC's new difficulty is great. I ran solo and died twice on the way to Vanaduke. Time ran out before I could fight Vanaduke however so I'll have to go with the consensus that he is much more difficult. The overall layout of the rooms are interesting. I had a fun time with the new mobs and working around how pesky they were. All in all I think it was a welcome addition. I can see it being a lot more difficult in a four man as opposed to a solo or duo run. Having someone else grab slag guards would make the entirety of the citadel an easier run.

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2/ How many revives did you use in Ultimate IMF and/or Ultimate FSC ?
Answer:
IMF-
Ultimate IMF I used 2 revives in the switching room right before the pad for Roar twins. Other than that no deaths. I was not pleased with me.

FSC-
2 revives in new FSC. Hadn't gotten the opportunity to see much of Vanaduke before server reset. So I am a sad panda about that. I'll get to try again when server (hopefully) opens up again.

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3/ Which areas do you feel could be improved ?
Answer:
IMF-
The roar twins fight is still pretty easy even given the increase of scuttlebots and the gremlin healer was negligible if he was taken care of first. With the increased number of scuttlebots it was easy to maintain full health despite going through the fight with no pills. I suggest adding another healer to increase the difficulty level. It would cause prioritization, but in retrospect may increase the length of a fight already based around a small bit of luck with rocket placement.

FSC-
New damage skip ropes have a weird clipping issue with slags. Allows them to be kept at bay during a charge if kept between you during the animation for the run. Mainly exploitable in the bottom right skip rope room. Could be fixed to increase difficulty.

Bottom left room on 2nd Depth of new FSC slag guard can be put into the bottom left corner and while standing in the bottom right corner can be continuously kited into the wall. Allowing you to kill the Skelly mobs with ease. Open up the room to increase difficulty.

Also on depth 3 in the key room with the ghost blocks attached to the corners the shadow skip ropes do almost no damage and have no status effect attached to them. Maybe remove the small gap in the ropes near the gates to increase difficulty in that room or increase the damage from negligible to something to make me worry about running through it away or to Skelly mobs. As it stands it was easy to sit in a corner without even using a DA charge to keep them at bay and then run through if I felt threatened.

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4/ If you feel like you've already mastered the current Tier 3, do you think the new content is challenging enough for you ?
Answer:
IMF-
The content is challenging and fun in the way some monsters were implemented. Having a gun puppy spawn directly beyond a gate that opened in a small area was a welcome surprise. Overall though the difficulty level for IMF seems low. I'd like to see it get a teensy bit harder with a better payout. As it stands I'd do it for novelty sake and then leave it be. Forever.

FSC-
FSC's new content is a lot of fun. I particularly had trouble in depth 4 of the new FSC when the gate spawns behind you, that is a teeny room. Some of the traps seem like they're placed well. A lot a lot A LOT of grates though, so maybe change up the type of trap? After you get used to it the traps aren't too terrible. Overall I think the difficulty is on par with what it should be.

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5/ (Special Question) Add anything you would like to tell them about here :)
Answer:
IMF-
2824 crowns for the entirety of the three levels for a t3 run in IMF feels a bit low. If it even got bumped up by 1000 crowns or so it'd feel more on par for what the run is worth difficulty wise. I did like the number of 5* materials that dropped on the run however.

FSC-
I already expounded on what I thought might be a good change to some of the things before. So it's something to pick over. Also it was done in Vog Cub (sans UV's) so the looming threat of shadow damage from traps or Skelly mobs didn't feel like it was an issue really. If it gets much harder though even veterans will have an issue with how tough the area is.

Overall Synopsis-
I am a fan. Thanks for the newly revised areas.

Sun, 10/09/2011 - 10:27

#11

Culture

Groovy

1/ Only did FSC as I was short on time. I really enjoyed it. I was glad to see all the cheap ways to kill things was removed. Love the new zombies!

2/ FSC took 11? revives, but I was screwing around at times, not using health caps or reviving people that suicided... so yeah. During Duke, I took it more seriously and only needed to rez once (lagged into fire.) I didn't actually find Phase 4 all that bad, I don't remember getting hit more than once. (I grew up on vertical scrollers...)

3/ Nothing in particular.

4/ It was more challenging than regular FSC, for sure. Just the right amount in terms of difficulty. It was hard enough to feel challenging but still fun and not overwhelming. Zombies had a fresh face, and the addition of more turrets/fire/spikes/lassos added additional obstacles to overcome.

What I'm missing though is something interesting - makes me think and requires strategy for success. It is, mostly, mindless zombies that turns into a close-combat hack-fest. The occasional opponent that can think and react would be welcome. A new mob or smarter zombies would be refreshing. Consider a miniboss on each depth... maybe different slag guard captains with various abilities. Has to be the fun kind of challenge though, not the tedious kind.

5/ I'm sure you'll address this as it isn't a finished product, but +1 on the token reward issue. I got waaaaay too many extra tokens from the bosses piled up already so doubling the tokens does not feel like a just reward for tackling the ultimate bosses. By the time anyone takes on this challenge successfully they should be in a similar position.

I got 8.7k CR in FSC... I think that is pretty good. Could be better, but I'm just being greedy. :)

I want a water gun. :D j/k...

Not sure if this is possible, but I think the shadow lassos should push you. Right now it is easy enough to just shield as they pass by, takes away from the "Mario" experience.

Trojans drop all sorts of useful goodies. Slag guards usually drop nothing. Plz fix.

Edit - one thing occurred to me which is quite a challenge and adds to the fun. There is a room with the four buttons that opens the gate key - there should be more opportunities like that. Most parties can't handle the difficulty so only do one at a time. But some parties hit all four at once because they appreciate the challenge. The same is true in the room with the red rovers and the boxes covering buttons. For example, the bridge with repeated zombie waves. That is now actually easier (and more tedious) since you can't run across and fight them on their side due to the fixed totems. If there was a button to press to spawn all the waves at once instead of one at a time that would be an appropriate challenge.

Along the same lines of the feel of overcoming vast mobs... There is a danger room that I really enjoy - it is very wide, has two large spike traps and usually spawns zombies/trojans.

Sun, 10/09/2011 - 15:05

#12

Klaxoff

UIMF too easy, UFSC about right (barring a couple things...)

1/ What do you think about the general difficulty level of Ultimate IMF and/or Ultimate FSC ?
Answer:
UIMF: It was pretty hard the first time through, but really I would say this one could be harder. It feels sort of like it could be a normal T3 area, not some "ultimate" area. Also, the Twins are still pathetic, I don't even know what their new rockets do. Honestly, I kind of think regular FSC is harder for the most part.
UFSC: This, on the other hand, is crazy-go-nuts. I've only run this once, but I got pretty much destroyed on that run. I'd say this is much more in line with difficulty beyond T3, barring a few ares (some of the Charred Court rooms and most things involving Slag Guards) that paradoxically seem easier...

2/ How many revives did you use in Ultimate IMF and/or Ultimate FSC ?
Answer:
UIMF: About 10 or so my first run, significantly less on later runs.
UFSC: Too many to count...

3/ Which areas do you feel could be improved ?
Answer:
UIMF: Pretty much everything, especially the Twins themselves. Some the the battles were hard enough, like the one at the end of Abandoned Assembly and the switch puzzle at the end of Warfare Workshop, but otherwise I don't really feel threatened. I'd say this might be because the areas in IMF are pretty confined, meaning there's never a large number of enemies around, so you never really get swarmed like in FSC. Maybe adding some traps (spikes, rockets, spinning energy bars, those lasers that are only used at the very end...) would add some threat, or maybe it would just make things more cluttered, I don't know. As for the Twins, even though there are more spawns and occasionally a mender, the Twins don't really have any new attacks, and the fight isn't really any harder. Let's face it: Scuttlebots aren't threatening. At all. Now if those spawners created something like Retrodes...
UFSC: I don't have as much to say for this, as I've only run it once, but I will agree with the others that have mentioned that Slag Guards don't drop anything. Ever. And that this is kind of a problem. As for Vanaduke, he was completely ridiculous, but I'm guessing that he's supposed to be that way. One thing though (and this goes for UIMF as well) is that the entire place, especially the boss, causes crazy amounts of lag (last phase runs at like 15 FPS or something).
*EDIT: So after another run I've found some more things that could be improved. For one, the lower left chamber in Charred Court (spinning shadow bar) could be made harder. The gap in the bar makes dodging it too simple, and the enemies don't do a good job of forcing the player to stay moving. Also, the left side of Ashen Armory is way too easy. The right side is complete murder on the other hand, so there's some serious imbalance there. Another thing is that Slag Guards actually end up being easier than the Trojans. They have the same weaknesses as the curse zombies, and they are much more predictable than Trojans, since all they ever do is charge. Just sidestep, stab in the back, repeat. Without Vanaduke to attract attention away from them, they become one of the simpler enemies to deal with.

4/ If you feel like you've already mastered the current Tier 3, do you think the new content is challenging enough for you ?
Answer:
I wouldn't really say I've "mastered" T3, so I can't really answer this properly. But I will say that even I can handle UIMF pretty easily, so if it is meant to be comparable with UFSC in terms of difficulty, it isn't. Not even close.

5/ (Special Question) Add anything you would like to tell them about here :)
Answer:
A few things:
1 - In UIMF, those spinning energy bars can interact with the rockets. This leads to some instances (I believe there's one in Warfare Workshop) where the energy bar destroys the rockets being launched, effectively nullifying that trap. It might be a good idea to look into this if you intend on these areas being some kind of ultra-challenge or whatever.
2 - The lag, in general, is unbearable. Vanaduke was pretty bad, but the worst is a giant lag spike when both Twins enter phase two. The game literally freezes for a moment, and when I can see again, I'm either dead or half my health is gone. Oddly, I've never had it happen at any of the other phases.
3 - As others have said, the rewards are kinds lame. I mean, for I know these rewards are only temporary, or there's more after the bosses (The big picture and all that) but only a few tokens is still kind of underwhelming.

Overall some nice stuff, just needs re-balancing I would say. (Sorry if I was a bit long-winded up there)

Sat, 10/08/2011 - 21:31

#13

Realnight

I guess i should preface this

I guess i should preface this by saying that I'm not really a top tier player - only just got 5* - still can't beat Vana solo - though I do fine on his levels. I went through the following levels without leveling up my gear so that could have contributed to things.

1/ What do you think about the general difficulty level of Ultimate IMF and/or Ultimate FSC ?
Answer: Only did Ultimate FSC and only down three levels before the server shut down. The first level was the most polished it seemed in what was added - it slowed things down just enough. Not really extra difficulty - but made ever square inch of the level have something to do. Slag guards were the only thing that really gave me trouble. Second level only really added fire outside the room (minor inconvenience) and slag guards. Every encounter in the third level was just as easy except the first - which was only minority more difficult because of the slags. The second stage of the left split was actually easier than the normal FSC version.

2/ How many revives did you use in Ultimate IMF and/or Ultimate FSC ?
Answer: One or two per level. I think on a second run I wouldn't need any as I never used a pill. Most of the time it was because I got trapped by slag guards to death.

3/ Which areas do you feel could be improved ?
Answer: I think only the first level had any real polish - it made great use of it's space. It's not really about making an encounter really really hard - it's about making the whole level fell like one long encounter. The first level accomplishes that.

Then there is the horrendous lag on the second level still - it feels like resources aren't being cleaned out as enemies are killed. Because every time you spawn a new group of enemies it gets worse and worse - by the sixth or seventh room it's just unbearable.

4/ If you feel like you've already mastered the current Tier 3, do you think the new content is challenging enough for you ?
Answer: Curse is way less annoying than fire - to really ratchet this up you would need both fire and curse slag walkers. The slag guards are difficult but far less enjoyable enemies. Slag guards have no personality - they just feel unfinished. You get annoyed by them - but don't think of them as worthy opponents. Trojans have personality in spades - they're a much better enemy.

5/ (Special Question) Add anything you would like to tell them about here :)
Answer: I like to see a sound added to when slag guards start their run - also a little more definition to their AoE for their attacks. Maybe something like a shock wave that runs in front of them and expands when they attack. Slag guards are just very incomplete.

Sat, 10/08/2011 - 21:42

#14

Myllakka

1/ What do you think about

1/ What do you think about the general difficulty level of Ultimate IMF and/or Ultimate FSC ?
Answer:
The IMF was more or less okay. I think that if I were to run it a couple of times (only have time to run it once), it would be just a bit harder than the normal one. The twins themselves were exactly the same level of difficulty, which could be a good or a bad thing. FSC, on the other hand...holy crap, that was ridiculous! Maybe because there was so much lag at Vana, but he was almost impossible for me.

2/ How many revives did you use in Ultimate IMF and/or Ultimate FSC ?
Answer:
IMF: Three or four times in the rooms leading up to the twins, zero at the twins. Most of the death was either lag-related or bad coordination between teammates. FSC: I lost count at Vana, but probably at least 10 in that room. Leading up to Vana, maybe another 10? I'd say half were due to lag, and the other half because of my unfamiliarity with the number and types of weapons I chose.

3/ Which areas do you feel could be improved ?
Answer:
I feel like I shouldn't suggest anything, as I thought IMF was fine, and I don't really have enough experience with FSC in the normal version to make reliable suggestions. I'd say make the Vana room doable with some lag, because right now, a split second movement too late and you take crazy amounts of damage.

4/ If you feel like you've already mastered the current Tier 3, do you think the new content is challenging enough for you ?
Answer:
I really, really /haven't/ mastered T3, but I'd say that Twins are doable at high T2/low T3 level, while Vana is...challenging, at the very least. Definitely enough.

5/ (Special Question) Add anything you would like to tell them about here :)
Answer:
Uh, terrible, terrible lag. The new FSC makes it so that you can't really go in with anything other than Vog (preferably with max curse or something), which is annoying as we see tons of those around already. There were quite a few graphics glitches (usually missing floors), but I doubt those will be hard to fix.

Sun, 10/09/2011 - 12:43

#15

Skeena

1/ What do you think about

1/ What do you think about the general difficulty level of Ultimate IMF and/or Ultimate FSC ?
Answer: It was very tough. I was the only one with an ice bomb and I cannot imagine it without the ice bomb it would have been 50x harder.

2/ How many revives did you use in Ultimate IMF and/or Ultimate FSC ?
Answer: Lost count.

3/ Which areas do you feel could be improved ?
Answer: I feel a lot of the rooms are too small for that many monsters, and it seems like the slag guards have a very small opening after they charge, again they would have been very tough if not for my ice bomb

4/ If you feel like you've already mastered the current Tier 3, do you think the new content is challenging enough for you ?
Answer: I have not mastered the regular version I have only ran it once and failed.

5/ (Special Question) Add anything you would like to tell them about here :)
Answer: Sometimes it just seems way to packed full of monsters to even play smart, you just get hit.

Someone said they like the difficulty and that it will give players something to work at. But who wants to waste a ton of energy and/or days(using 100 energy only) to master the stages and only get a double token reward.

Sun, 10/09/2011 - 20:00

#16

Pseudon

1/ What do you think about the general difficulty level of Ultimate IMF and/or Ultimate FSC ?

Ultimate IMF: The difficulty seemed fitting for a depth 19->22 boss stratum, if it's planned for something harder then it might need some tweaking.
Ultimate FSC: The difficulty wasn't facemelting, but it was a definite step up from normal FSC. I quite like the current difficulty level and think it should stay this way.

2/ How many revives did you use in Ultimate IMF and/or Ultimate FSC ?

Ultimate IMF: 7 or 8, though I was being a lot more careless than I'd be without unlimited energy.
Ultimate FSC: Probably 15+, though I didn't try to avoid damage at all as I was hoping to get two runs in before time ran out.

3/ Which areas do you feel could be improved ?

Ultimate IMF: If it's intended to be harder than a 19-22 depth stratum, possibly add some more status traps and more mobs.
Ultimate FSC: Solo players should have less shadow fire at the boss fight.
Both: The circling red/purple fire balls deal negligible damage to the point where it's not worth it to avoid them, they should do more damage or inflict a status effect.

4/ If you feel like you've already mastered the current Tier 3, do you think the new content is challenging enough for you ?

Ultimate FSC is definitely challenging enough, but Ultimate IMF could do with some increased difficulty.

5/ (Special Question) Add anything you would like to tell them about here :)

I don't think simply giving double tokens is enough of a reward for the difficulty of ultimate FSC.

Sun, 10/09/2011 - 20:28

#17

Bigfootm

What Dark Ritual?

Forgot to fill this out yesterday.

ICMF- Pretty fun, but very laggy. In my opinion, it's probably about equal to a T3 Shock Danger room.

FSC-LOVE It. I had so much fun there.

I got kinda careless since I had unlimited revives.

ICMF-One or two, can't remember.
FSC- Probably 4 real ones, any others were my being "Unlimited revives, I'll be careless." deaths.

Both. Both have some bits and bolts here and there.

FSC-I really liked the fire traps and all, but I think somebody got carried away with them. :/
ICMF-Needs more mobs and status traps.

FSC-Yes. It is going to take some gettin used to, may bring my shivermist into FSC runs again.
ICMF-Needs to be harder. It was still slightly harder, but it needed more difficulty.

Mist tanks as a reward as well sometimes. Maybe. Don't know. Just want to see more mist tanks again. Also, double the tokens? For IcMF, sure. For FSC? Worth it until Vanaduke. Needs more of a bonus there.

Sun, 10/09/2011 - 20:54

#18

Vanillateddy

Vanillateddy's take on things.

1/ What do you think about the general difficulty level of Ultimate IMF and/or Ultimate FSC ?
Answer: I think that the difficulty level is great, stupendous, amazing. Theres never bean a challenge like it before. The difficulty of moveing around and killing things combined with the task of blocking their attacks was extreme. When i soloed the first level of vanaduke all by myself useing 3 guns and a voltedge it was amazing how well i was doing but how hard it was. i was in a constant block, shoot, plan, block swipe swipe, plan mode. it was amazing how the new aditions to the game were put in like the curse slags. i didn't realy have a hard time with them because i would use a polaris to keep them away so that they couldn't curse me but then again i had the slag guards to worry about as well and they did a good job of making sure they kept me on my toes. The one sad thing though is that i came to late in the game to get anywhere past the second citadell.

Now moving onto the Twins, i realy liked how everything was mixed up and you were basically doing the level backwards. it made it a huge miscombobulation and i would at times forget what i am doing or which way i was going. i kept fighting through swarms of robots dieing alot because of the fire takeing my life away and shock keeping me from attacking all the little pests that surrounded me. i found that slashing away at whatever is near like i could in the regular twins was obviously not going to work. i was constantly dieing. i had to re stratigize and cope with all the change at once or i was surely not going to make it in the actual game. but to be honest i loved the way the twins looked they were so badass.. but maby makeing one twin a fire pup and the other a shock pup would be intrigueing.

2/ How many revives did you use in Ultimate IMF and/or Ultimate FSC ?
Answer: In the twins i prolly used well over 50 xDDD mostly because of lag. im sorry but thats some crazy snapple.
In the two first areas of firestorm citadell though i had managed to pass by on solo only useing a combined amount of 15 or so revives.

3/ Which areas do you feel could be improved ?
Answer: Im sorry but i do feel that the lag in the twins levels leading up to them are still way to laggy and almost unplayable..
But i did however like how the difficulty was in citadell i had no problems with that.

4/ If you feel like you've already mastered the current Tier 3, do you think the new content is challenging enough for you ?
Answer: I think that the new tier 3 is definatly WAY more challengeing then the already alive tier 3 thats availble.

5/ (Special Question) Add anything you would like to tell them about here :)
Answer: 1. The biggest thing, fix the lag with the twins.
2. maby a shock twin and a fir twin combo to make it harder.
3. the slag walkers and guards were constantly geting through forcefields. and even went straight through shields at times.
4. bring the phantoms into tier three to play in firestorm in level 1 and 2.
5. Keep bringing the PAIN, Cuz i like it :3.

Mon, 10/10/2011 - 02:08

#19

Flawedknight

for what it's worth

1/ What do you think about the general difficulty level of Ultimate IMF and/or Ultimate FSC ?
Answer: The new IMF was only a tad bit harder with the exception of certain rooms (which were legitimately harder). I was able to play through most of it solo with out a revive (but I do the normal twin levels solo often. WRT the FSC I've only played the original twice. but I didn't notice a huge difference in the difficulty (revive a bit in both). The varied monsters were a nice change of pace.

2/ How many revives did you use in Ultimate IMF and/or Ultimate FSC ?
Answer: 2 - 5 in IMF.... but a fair number in the FSC but I was also letting things hit me to see what would happen the curse was a nice touch, I didn't bother with the bosses so no count there

3/ Which areas do you feel could be improved ?
Answer: the FSC both old and new felt good and challenging. The IMF seemed ok, but the level didn't seem to flow as nicely as the original.

4/ If you feel like you've already mastered the current Tier 3, do you think the new content is challenging enough for you ?
Answer: I'm a tier 3 noob... but nothing felt crazy hard, it was all about on par

5/ (Special Question) Add anything you would like to tell them about here :)
Answer: even though everyone has complained about the cost benefit ration being poor, that's about how it is on most boss stages. only way to get around it is to put more cannon fodder for the masses I guess? I'm all for tougher (still) strategic challenging levels for the bosses. However the fact that you have to beat a boss like 10 times to obtain anything worth while out of it seems a bit harsh. In addition it drives up the price for certain weapons a ton. Obtaining them yourself almost seems like a grind. Tho I'm lazy and bought most everything. So if that's the goal good work. Changing the dynamics of a level that someone has spent tons of time and money into building a weapon and armor set for seems a bit harsh -- and may be frustrating for some. So not sure if this is a replacement or an addition... but I vote for an additive approach. In general if anyone reads this I think that the beast line of monsters is under populated and constructs appear everywhere, making elemental weapons more useful, it seems like some balancing could and maybe should be first, and fresh monsters and bosses.... isn't there a goblin king that has yet to be seen too :)

Cheers

Mon, 10/10/2011 - 06:55

#20

Divinesnipz

IMF stands 4......

what does IMF stand 4?

Mon, 10/10/2011 - 08:28

#21

Culture

IMF

Ironclaw Munitions Factory
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/List_of_commonly_used_abbreviations

And then UIMF is the new Ultimate Ironclaw Munitions Factory.

Mon, 10/10/2011 - 10:52

#22

Crazyoddbaa

Developer

Thanks for the feedback!

Hey everyone, just got finished reading through all the threads posted during this testing session and I wanted to say thanks for all the great feedback!

@Cootiecakes: thanks for organizing this particular thread with that 5 question format - definitely helped me parse through all the feedback much faster. Thanks!

Mon, 10/10/2011 - 11:11

#23

Bluemach

Hey Crazyoddbaa, if you have

Hey Crazyoddbaa, if you have any more questions for us in particular, feel free to ask us so that we can all improve this content!

Mon, 10/10/2011 - 11:26

#24

Earthboundx

My Feedback :)

1/ What do you think about the general difficulty level of Ultimate IMF and/or Ultimate FSC ?
Answer:
I think it's a great Idea :P, a bit difficulty and ambition is every time good. :) And with 4 good organized people possible :P. And so you will use some other equip's, not like the most the use their Vogs or Skolver :P. (I had used the first time the Grey Feather Set, for IMF and it was a good idea :P.)
The idea that you use 2 different status, is very good :P. So the you must play with skills, not "as in sleep" as I do in IMF.
FSC is pretty hard, at least alone x.x. Curse and Fire: Pretty hard for a bomber D:.

2/ How many revives did you use in Ultimate IMF and/or Ultimate FSC ?
Answer:
Don't ask me.. But IMF, only because of my optimism, I had taken 14-16 revives..xD. I don't was a long time at FSC (Stupid Time D:), but the First Depth, was hard.. Without Shiver or Hail, the Oiler are pretty annoying...x.x

3/ Which areas do you feel could be improved ?
Answer: No one, I like all very much :)

4/ If you feel like you've already mastered the current Tier 3, do you think the new content is challenging enough for you ?
Answer: Sure, new challenges are always good :P. Only people without fun and ambition will don't like that two :P

So, my feedback. Sorry for my broken english, I am only a usual german boy :P

Mon, 10/10/2011 - 18:05

#25

Pookycakes

No problem Crazyoffbaa! ^^

Maybe one of you guys from OOO could make a topic like that at the next testing session, so you could ask exactly what all the developers wanna know next time ^^

Mon, 10/10/2011 - 22:36

#26

Vermilionshadow

Sorry about the rather late

Sorry about the rather late post, but here's my feedback.

1/ What do you think about the general difficulty level of Ultimate IMF and/or Ultimate FSC ?
Answer: Both areas of which had an overall increase, as what OOO actually does intend. UIMF reminds me of FSC's overall difficulty oddly enough, and UFSC, I'm just glad all of the cheap ways to get by the area have been removed, making it a real challenge to win now considering alot of people relied on those.

2/ How many revives did you use in Ultimate IMF and/or Ultimate FSC ?
Answer: Overall, I did not use alot of revives in UIMF, even though it was infinite, and I had a Combuster and Magma Driver equipped (was completely unaware that the area had 2 status conditions.) For UFSC though, the only time I constantly used revives is the boss, people were reviving themselves numerously at that time, other than that, I did my best and used minimal amount of revives as possible in each area.

3/ Which areas do you feel could be improved ?
Answer: Some of the mechanics (especially for the "Cursed Walkers") really need to be worked out. Also is there any way to increase the reward amount for the area? 3000-8000 crowns seems a bit light for beating the toughest areas in the game currently. Another thing is, is there any way to change one of the twins to a shock-related one instead, so it can match the area?

4/ If you feel like you've already mastered the current Tier 3, do you think the new content is challenging enough for you ?
Answer: UIMF would feel the same difficulty as FSC unfortunately, but UFSC would be more interesting, and certainly a better place for expert players to actually test their skills at.

5/ (Special Question) Add anything you would like to tell them about here :)
Answer: I feel there should be a slight extra reward somewhere for beating the areas, like a mini (or full) mist tank for successfully conquering the area.
Also, is there any way to give out multiple tokens instead, it's disappointing to see a 3 token reward from UIMF.

--Vermilion/Vermilionshadow

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 05:00

#27

Sherperd

For some reason i dropped 6

For some reason i dropped 6 tokens is that normal?

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 21:41

#28

Vermilionshadow

@ Shepherd For UFSC, I've had

@ Shepherd
For UFSC, I've had that amount drop once defeating "Cursed Vanaduke."
Other than that, I've been getting 1-3 tokens per boss. -_-

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