Lockdown is a crown sink. It helps balance the game economy by managing crown inflation. The 30% of crowns skimmed off from lockdown matches are effectively destroyed.
This is a good thing, it keeps the crowns you have from losing too much value. If there weren't enough crown sinks, CE prices would go through the roof.
Thank you. That makes sense, that's all I wanted to know.
First off, The first comment I made was directed toward the OP. I only sent three sentances to you, becuase it's all you deserve. Why would you ask that, knowing that no one knew the answer? Becuase you were trying to make a point. What point were you trying to make? That presumebaly the crowns should go to something. My point is, that there are many things that are like that, and just arguing this one random point is senseless. People ae "dodging" your question, becuase there isn't an answer for it. We're just trying as best we can to give you something to chew on, not "bashing you".
If you're going to form a question that we cannot reply to, don't talk. After all, I could say you were dodging my questions concerning where crowns come from, or where CE goes.
And I did say it was a crown sink. "Read my intire post and quit bashing me"
I also did say what you said one post ago <_<, a mod calibrator coss 3000 crowns, in coins. Not sure if you were trying to debate me or reinforce me there, justsayin.
Lmao
Don't play it.LD will not effect your knight.I like playing lockdown with my trusty Faust.i personally think all the weapons are balanced.first Faust is slow so it will make you vulnerable.I rather get a silent knight blade for LD but I got faust because for JK. Geez stop raging, the mini game is not for getting more crowns.everyday after a JK run I do 3-5 matches, very fun even if I lose.
I think it's kind of unbalanced for the gunslingers lets say you enter with nameless set you get praticly 2 shoteded by pretty much everything while you have to shot and "HIT" 6-8 shot(2x elite dmg trinket) to kill someone even if you wipe armor with recon module it still takes minimum 4 shots to take down strike module wielder with a callahan(target has no pierce def) but it's kind of hard because people goes berserk with those strike modules like hamsters on cafein also all swords cleave and they have decent reach add the 'lag' factor and faust cleaves 50 miles away..
not to mention stupid bug that sometime your bullet hits the target yet they doesnt take any dmg (Not talking about guardian shield/Inmunity thingie or multiple hits at once)
@Regalya: I know gunslinger are UP but i saw some guy playing with full Shadowsun ( i think worth it for pvp) and x2 Elite trinket = DMG MAX.. and striker module... Doing it isnanely well, pwning guardians and strikers like a boss... but gunslingers still up in lockdown=P
The Boswicks must go. Oh yeah, and as long as you're talking about Lockdown, I saw two Rock Jellies in two fights right next to each other.
Lol, I thought that it would give me a vitapod, so I killed it D: it didn't.
You know how come the devs thought to add a feature in pvp to battle against or with friends only?
So to the forum, I know how Renpartycat feels for some weapons and skills are proving to have a lot of variables (aka possible fights and imperfections) , but then this is too much trouble, in fact maybe gran fausts and flourishes are making too much fighting. Additionally, nothing is perfect, basically every game has flaws and we should all be aware of that. And in final, the Spiral Knights crew worked hard to make features like pvp for us so we should all be grateful,instead of complain its getting annoying and in fact, we're supposed to be knights trying to destroy evil, not the other way around where we destroy ourselves! the pvp is okay and I like it, and we should be grateful, since its hard to live up to someone's expectations....
Lockdown is hardly something to be considered a "competitive" part of the game. The only PvP that is, and that should be, is Arena style, no objectives, just team versus team and last man standing wins. That's a bout of skill; no striker or all that, just your weapons. In this game, there are a few reasons that wouldn't work quite right, unless some kind of PvP gear/system is implemented to balance things out.
I hate to say it, but a system SIMILAR (not the same, just think along the lines of the idea) of what WoW has; Resilience. A stat they put only on PvP gear. If you don't have it, you get rocked. Different classes (or in this game, different styles) would have more or less. But, there are other ways to do this; only put it on weapons or something. I don't know, I just know this game can't be competitive when designed for PvE.
There are no classes though; balancing is only through items. This makes turning the game into a split (PvP/PvE) style would garner way more players and also be fun as hell. Give us a ladder based on skill (W/L ratio) real teams (2v2, 3v3, 5v5, or whatever works best) that stay and individual scores that aren't just accumulated through playing MORE, instead of playing BETTER.
Otherwise, you have LD. Which can be fun; but their is no way to tell who's good, or have any real sportsmanship. The best times I had on WoW, were at 2-3 AM playing Rogue/Mage or Rogue/Mage/Priest or R/Pally, whatever, or 3s and 2s, and learning form each other and helping each other become better. PvE is great; but the connection of a 3s team can become very intense and it's amazing when things click, and the chemistry works.
LD is for fun. The top players on the "Leaderboards" just play a lot; they could suck, you don't know. Plus, teams are random. Even guild teams have issues that turn tides that have nothing to do with skill. That's why Rated BG's in WoW never has or will really catch on big time. It can be fun, but there are too many factors. In Arena, it's you against them, and you have to be quick, focused, and communicate to win big, or go home.
So don't take it too seriously. If you want good damn PvP, either get a big group of people in game that you know who want something like that and have them post in Suggestions, or play another game. Not trying to be harsh, but this just isn't a game with competitive PvP, besides the few silly guilds, which mine is one of the top though we never play XD So I know first hand (Impervious is the guild) that the boards mean nothing, which means the game itself is just the fun you can have with it.
Good luck and have fun!
"Lockdown is hardly something to be considered a "competitive" part of the game. The only PvP that is, and that should be, is Arena style, no objectives, just team versus team and last man standing wins. That's a bout of skill; no striker or all that, just your weapons. In this game, there are a few reasons that wouldn't work quite right, unless some kind of PvP gear/system is implemented to balance things out." -Speetz
Thats exactly how they landed up with Lockdown in the first place. I've seen clips of the original PvP, and its just people running around with swords, killing each other and moving on.... which is exactly how PvE works. It was repetitive, everyone used 2 or 3 basic loadouts, and the only fun part was waking up Tortodrones and hoped they locked on to someone else. The class system was introduced to invalidate the concept of a perfect loadout... no matter what your carrying, at least one of the classes has a way to deal with it. And the lack of shields also caused a major change in tactics since Knights are very fragile without it.
And the problem with equipment in Straight PvP, is it becomes either a matter of luck if your locked in with a single loadout..... or an exercise of "who has the most money to craft variable loadouts". The WoW example falls short in the fact that classes are integral to the core of the game. It affects everything from equipment, to abilities, to stats, and very heavily on playstyle. Without that variation, or some kind of Rock Paper Scissors relationship, PvP becomes extremely bland, and heavily dependent on whatever variable you can actually control. And skill may not even be important, if all it takes to win is First strike.
Simply put.... Arena style isn't the end all, be all of PvP. You even cite several concepts core to PvE that actually separates it from a general slugfest.
Very good points! I understand what you are saying completely; the Class system, or lack thereof, in SK makes balance a very unique issue. I do not want you to think I mean an exact copy; simply thinking along those lines, or the way other games, either MMOs or even RPGs, whatever, go about PvP and balance.
I am just saying to keep in mind many games pull it off, and the lack of a class system may create more issues or less. That's on OOO's side.
When I pointed out "Resilience" I simply wanted to convey a possibility. The Beta PvP was lackluster for a couple/few reasons:
Same loadouts
Repetitive
Lack of rewards (I never played the Beta, but this is an issue with LD to some extent, at least according to some players, and was then too)
The class system is great for what it is. And maybe it would work in an Arena style match, 1 death just like other games with comp. PvP. You wouldn't be able to change, but new matches would load and probably end quickly, and slower the higher skill you play. You have a rank which there is a REALLY long and complicated algorithm for (Math is not my subject) and it determines who you face and what skill level you should be at.
Giving possibly different classes, or maybe change what gear you can use in these Arenas, and create completely new gear that you only use there, but you acquire through maybe LD, BN or just the CWs, and have the weapons and gear be tailored to only use in PvP; either make them required, or give the gear some kind of weakness in PvE (only slight) and PvE gear some weakness in PvP.
Some say this split in WoW ruined the game's feel or certain styles of play. And it might have, for a lot of people and at least the feeling of an open, sandbox type world. No one likes having choices taken away. But WoW isn't really a sandbox game. And SK DEFINITELY isn't a sandbox; it's an action RPG/MMO. Or something like that.
So some limitations in play style are expected to simply create something even better, cooler, and more fun! I know a lot of suggestions make it into SK, which is great, so don't let anything hold back ideas. Be creative and feed off each other.
I am just throwing things out there; take it all and feed off it for your own ideas and suggestions. Eve if you think it's dumb; that which is spoken through ignorance can spark brilliance. :)
Again; Good luck and have FUN!@!
The power scaling is actually reversed in SK. Weapon damage greatly outpaces armor defense in literally all aspects other then status resistance, and its glaringly obvious in a T3 lockdown match. Its actually to the point where armor difference is so marginal, that you gain more benefits from the offensive bonuses then the armor itself. This is ironic since most players wanted to use they're own equipment (that they spent good money on) in PvP, citing it would make significant difference in a fight. Unfortunately it was only true for the weapons...... which is mostly restricted to shivermist/tempest to stop movement and the DA, granfaust, flourish line, the Pulsar and the Callahan for they're spike damage. You may see a few brandishes in use, but no where near as much as the other swords listed.
A choice to create new equipment specific for PvP would likely have to disregard everything else in the game. And forcing a common equipment set would essentially boil combat down to first strike, unless they explicitly go with the RPS method of gear design... in which case preparation would be moot, and luck would determine who had the winning setup.
Frankly, given the situation, being objective based was the only way to prevent the match from boiling down completely to first strike.
Very true also. Basically, think of it as a non-issue that you turn into an issue to make something better or something else entirely. I think a game like SK, with RPG elements and hardcore action, could have a very interesting, compelling, and popular competitive PvP side, ladder and all.
Making unique PvP gear is a bit much with a game like this; so take the idea and build on it. Instead, make only PvP armor modules; modules you attach for X amount of CE on a piece of gear to make it have much more protection against other players, according to the stats it already as also (Vog would still be better against Elemental than Shadow, but you would have more protection against both)
I just think this game would be a GREAT avenue for comp. PvP. LD obviously doesn't quite work for comp. but is great for fun and some Guild matches. I think there are too many avenues that haven't been explored; this game is young! It can be whatever the players and OOO's decides and wants.
Make it the best it can be; just because LD has some problems keeping it from being competitive, does not mean it can't be done in a way that makes players happy and is good for OOO's.
Starlinvf, I understand your points, but what would you throw out there to make either LD better, or make a more balanced and comp. PvP environment without completely changing the way the game works, and only adding on to it or making it better? I am simply throwing out suggestions for people to think about and consider, hopefully stirring up creativity or something.
You answer intelligently; I would like to hear some ideas you actually have, as you seem to have a decent amount of experience in LD/PvP and the game in general.
Anyway, same ol' ending about fun and stuff like that. >.>
Oh come on, anybody got anything?
The crowns are taken out because these mini-games are crown sinks, which is good for the equilibrium of the CE market. But asking "where did they go" is like asking where the elevator-costs go...
([spoiler alert] BTW these crowns, they don't really exist, you know, it's all just a game...)
You ask a nonsensical question and then refuse to hear answers where we try to give you some input. If you don't want input, don't ask questions...
Arena PVP is a completely stupid idea. We have all seen what happens when 4 v 4 run into a area. Everybody swings a DA/GF and whoever gets unlucky enough to get hit dies. Plus you would have to actually add something that is fun and creative, because otherwise it is just people hacking and slashing at each other which is boring. If you want more PVP it needs to be in a objective styled PVP like Lockdown. Capture the flag anyone?
I love it how I make a thread about how Lockdown is horrible, and everyone gets butt devastated at the truth.
And then everyone writes a 2-page essay on how their opinion is right, just so they don't feel as if all the time and energy spent into making PvP sets was a waste.
I'm honestly not trolling, but I'm laughing so hard at the stupidity right now that I'm crying. I've spent time reading all the posts here and even if I tried to prove any of you wrong I'd laugh even harder. Keep telling yourselves that you have "skill" when all you do is go striker and spam the Polaris/Shivermist Buster, and exploit the striker by lag-boosting while spamming your little Gran Fausts and Barbarous Thorn Blades while wearing Vog and Skolver sets.
Oh god this thread is going to kill me. I'm sorry but if you can't see why Lockdown is horrible, you're just going in circles. The truth is painful and hard to swallow, I know. But I'm afraid that this thread is going to circle around more than earth's natural orbit.
"I love it how I make a thread about how Lockdown is horrible, and everyone gets butt devastated at the truth."
But aren't you just a little upset from what I've gathered by skimming through this thread?
"exploit the striker by lag-boosting"
Sounds like you need a better computer, I'm running on a laptop and I don't lag with them. Although there are instances where any class seems to hit me from a mile away, but meh. Lag happens.
"all you do is go striker and spam the Polaris/Shivermist Buster"
I've seen more guardian/status bomb spam, which irks me, but I still manage to have fun trying to get around them.
"I'm afraid that this thread is going to circle around more than earth's natural orbit."
Well you're kind of right there, but it's the internet.
Know what beats a Vog Striker? A Brandish charge attack in the face with max sword damage. Even if they hit you it won't interrupt the charge attack.
Know what beats a mist spammer? Polaris, AP, or Sentenza; or status resistance against the mist.
Know what beats a Guardian? Careful attacks until their shield is down. Or just three quick attacks. With max sword damage my BTB destroys a shield in 3 quick hits. (And not 1-2-3 swing combo. 1-shield-1-shield-1-shield combo so it doesn't have the lag)
Know what beats a Recon? Experience with movement patterns along with Polaris, AP, Sentenza, or Callahan (or any other fast shooting or large AoE gun)
or even mist bombs.
Know what beats a Polaris spammer? Guardians that can dodge. Seriously, shield the first few hits that travel long enough to get bigger. The smaller bullets are EASILY dodgeable at their incredibly slow rate.
I also stand by the fact that if you get hit by the second hit of a GF or DA and were hit by the first, then you either have TERRIBLE lag or don't know how to dodge. I think a poster said it before, any GF or DA wielder who uses the second swing is in for a poke or two with a BTB or FF.
Also I am never two shotted by GFs. It always takes at least three hits to kill me with a GF. Unless both the hits I take are the second swing of the combo, which is fairly unlikely.
The only things I truly 'fear' in any sense of the word are good Strikers with BTB or FF; and/or those wearing Ancient sets and Heart trinkets.
Disclaimer:
All things claimed above are from experience and not to be taken as canon.
What happened to "I'm abandoning this thread because it's going nowhere fast"?
Hell, what happened to realising that "truth" and "opinion" are two different things? It's why we have different words for them!
Ren: what you are describing and complaining so vocally about is not objective truth. It is your opinion. There are clearly a great many players that disagree with your assessment; several have actually offered counterpoints, which you've dismissed out of hand without addressing, other than repeating the blanket statements you made in the original post. That...that isn't a discussion technique. That's just being an arsehole. You may not be intentionally trolling, but neither are you actually contributing anything to the discussion you started. It still mostly sounds like your problems with Lockdown stem from you being eyeblindingly terrible at it.
"I'm honestly not trolling, but I'm laughing so hard at the stupidity right now that I'm crying."
FINISH HIM
Speetz
Maybe they can classify armour as what they are in game. So that way, the weapons that have bonuses against enemies in PvE could have bonuses against certain armours in PvP. So since radiant silvermail has extra damage bonus against undead, it could do extra damage in PvP against players wearing armour from the skelly tree, or if you are using the hunting blade which has extra damage boost against beasts, you do more damage against people wearing wolver or drake scale armour? I honestly don't like how some of the weapons in this game have damage bonuses against enemies in PvE only.
@ Marcus
This is an interesting idea. I feel like it could be expanded on... I will come back to it in a bit!!
@ Richy
I am not necessarily suggesting Arena PvP. I am simply trying to stir ideas about a competitive, balanced form of PvP, with a real rank and ladder system. Capture the flag and Objective PvP has so many factors and teams are so large that they can't be permanent and 90% of the time everything is determined by luck, chance and RNG/Lag. This type of PvP is fine; it's fun! But some players want a more competitive, (non-random) team-based, ladder driven type of PvP. Diablo even had something like this, and D3 will have something even more like Arena-style PvP.
Simply saying "Well this happened when 4 v 4 players happened and it sucked so it's a dumb idea." isn't constructive. Flipping it and creating a new idea, or even just simply stating YOUR opinion, or what you would like to see would be much more constructive. I am not trying to force anything down your throat; I am just trying to find a reasonable and fun solution to the issues so many people have with LD and their craving for something more balanced and competitive.
I know I would spend WAY more time playing SK if there was something like this. I know I would. And it would garner TONS of new players with a PvP style of play.
I am simply trying to contribute to the game, it's player base and the Dev's in the small manner in which I can. Help make the game better, for everyone, and it will show big time.
GL and have fun. :)
I posted a thread over somewhere earlier about PvP modes in SK, but I can post some of my suggestions here.
Deathmatch
A standard deathmatch game mode that can have either a 3v3, 6v6, or 8v8 format. Each team has a certain amount of tickets with a 5 second round clock respawn timer (so if I die 2 seconds after some other guy dies, we'll respawn at the same time, round clock format.) depending on the amt of players, tickets (or lives) will vary. 3v3 could have 25 lives for both teams, 6v6 can have 50 lives for each team, and 8v8 can have 100 lives per team.
Capture the flag
Obviously everyone knows how to play this. Players could respawn every 20 seconds in a round clock format. Could have many different maps, players can spend either 250 crowns or 5 energy for "emplaced" gun puppies that are strategically placed throughout the map.
King of the Hill
Everyone should know how to play this. Stand on a point placed in the middle of the map, more people standing on it, the bigger your teams' "influence" is on the point. First to hold the hill for 2 minutes wins.
Zombie mode
There could be a main zombie player (who has recon ability, but can only use swords, but maybe has a lot of health) against a bunch of survivors (who can only use guns or bombs) and they have to survive for a certain amount of time. Every player killed by the zombie gets converted into one (but has no shield ability, and standard health) if the zombie team wins, then it picks a new random zombie, if the knights win, it picks a new random zombie. Play up to 3 wins maybe?
Could also be coop game modes like horde mode with leaderboards (constant waves of diverse enemies, like arena, but the game goes until your team dies, the more waves you beat, the harder they get). The incentive to this game is maybe the ability to win an unlimited amt of crowns based on your skills.
And PvP could have a ranking system. If you win a game mode, you can get 2 tickets, lose a game and you only get 1 ticket. It could take a certain number of tickets to rank up, and every (maybe 5?) rank ups, and you can get a badge you can wear on your character for pride/to show how badass you are/or just to show off your accomplishments.
What do you guys think about my ideas?
interesting =D
maybe there should also be juggernaut mode
Juggernaut mode
One player is selected at random to be juggernaut. the juggernaut has double health and does 1.5x more damage. he is the only who can kill. well, the other players can kill too, but only kill the juggernaut. kill the juggernaut and become the new juggernaught. first to get some # of kills wins.
this might be a little unfair, though, because the jugs. would basically 1hitko people if they had gran fausts and DAs and stuff like those. but it's just a suggestion.
And if you win half and lose half, say win 25 and lose 25 (75 koins assuming no bribes), it means you win 2000 crowns and lose 5000. 25 * 280 = 7000 minus the entry fee of 25 *200 (5000) = 2000. Minus the 25 * 200 for losing = 2000-5000. But like I said in one of my earlier posts, I AM NOT HERE TO DEBATE THE POTENTIAL FOR PROFIT. I just wanted to know where the lost crowns go and why they go there. Please read my entire post before bashing me.