Spiral Knights - The "Official" Anti-Shadow Key petition

The "Official" Anti-Shadow Key petition

82 replies [Last post]

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 12:27

Alice-In-Pyroland

So today OOO have released an update containing both the new festive haloween content which is admittedly a very nice addition and something I fully appreicate, and also the addition of the new tier 3 content we've playing for the last couple weeks on the testing server at long last, but with an unfortunate twist. If you aren't quite in touch with the times, players can only access this new content using 'Shadow Keys' items which will drop from Lockboxes when the planets allign while Boswich is juggling bushes. Should you be lucky enough to get a Shadow Key without wasting thousands of ce on lockboxes you may wish to use it to access thew new content, although bear in mind these keys are one time use only thus you essentially have to pay just to access this content, and pay again and again and again.

I think the vast majority of tier 3 players will agree that the new update is ridiculous. Tier 3 players have been waiting a very long time for new content, bearing with OOO and continuining to support them while they update the early game and add entertaining but ultimately superficial attractions like accessories in the mean time. How is that patience rewarded? A slap in the face telling us that the end game content we've been waiting for is not only a rehash of existing content and not really anything new but entertaining enough to be worthwhile if that was all there was to it, but on top of that you have to pay to get access. If that wasn't enough there's no way to actually gurantee you get yourself a Shadow Key through lockboxes and no vendor to buy them from which means the only means of attaining them consistently is from the ah, where the prices will be driven up to ludicrous extent by the few rich people that do wish to run the new content.

What this means is those of us who don't wish to waste excess amounts of crowns and/or ce on simply getting access to the new content (And for one run only I might add) we're left with nothing to tide us over, no new tier 3 content and no reason to believe that future updates won't simply follow suit resulting in the game essentially becoming P2P post tier 3. Understandly a large majority of tier 3 players are displeased with this update so instead of having a dozen rant threads where things will get jumbled up and lost, this thread is to form a centralized petition with a list of all the signatures of people against this update. If we can get enough people together then we'll either end up convincing OOO to at least rethink the implentation of shadow keys if not revamping the new content entirely, or we'll establish that they simply don't care what the community wants which I think would be reasonable vindication for end game players whom have been waiting forever for new content to finally pack their bags and find something else to play.

Pass the link around, encourage anyone you know whom is against the update to sign it, the more sigs we get the better.

Sign the Petition

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 15:20

Glowing-Ember

Signed.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 15:24

Madadder

http://youtu.be/FopyRHHlt3M i

http://youtu.be/FopyRHHlt3M
i'll give this a month before people just stop caring

please note that i refuse to sign

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 15:27

Happyapathy

signed

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 15:30

Farm-Fresh

signed

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 15:41

Wuvvums

I don't think this is how

I don't think this is how petitions work. People seem to get the impression that if someone makes a statement and 1000 people pretty much +1 it, then it'll force something to change.

It can show statistically how many players are dissatisfied but it has no weight behind it, it's not binding.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 16:01

Happyapathy

the dissatisfaction is

the dissatisfaction is already prevalent and obvious, but until OOO does or says something it will continue to grow and manifest in new ways like this.

They already have a PR disaster on their hands, and all they seem to be able to do is fumble with it.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 16:04

Qlik

signed

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 16:05

Snorunt

Erm..

Don't online petitions have no real relevence? Both in legal and ideal terms.

Besides, as Madadder says, people will stop giving a crap soon enough.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 16:18

Jay-Dee

signed

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 16:32

#10

Sherperd

Signed

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 16:40

#11

Draycos

Freakin' signed, man.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 16:41

#12

Richy

If your looking for end game

If your looking for end game content your not very bright. This is kind of like taking a story which should take years to drag out and ending it 6 months after it's release. If they do release the core in the next year, at least that should be extended on. Ending the story line or putting in a end game level is ridiculously stupid 6 months into this game.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 16:44

#13

Draycos

By 'end-game content' he

By 'end-game content' he means 'content for people with the best gear', not the literal end of the game.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 16:50

#14

Richy

We are specifically talking

We are specifically talking clockworks end game content right? Because Lockdown can be considered end game content. I do not really see what else they can do except add in another boring new boss. At least these are challenging. Vanduke as we have seen can be beaten in a matter of no time. I need more info before I say this is a crap update. If I say make 40k on one of these stratums that would be more money than I spent on the key. I would like to know how much you can make of these before complaining.

Thu, 10/20/2011 - 01:57

#15

Alice-In-Pyroland

"It can show statistically

"It can show statistically how many players are dissatisfied but it has no weight behind it, it's not binding."

"Don't online petitions have no real relevence? Both in legal and ideal terms."

Certainly, but the point is to prove statiscally how many people are disatisfied with the content, and consequently getting an idea of just how much of the community OOO is flat out ignoring if they don't change anything.

@Richy: What Dracyos said you silly individual. And I hate to stamp on your optimism, but I have run UGWW and it's not significantly more profitable than current FSC, and certainly nowhere near enough to make up the price of the key.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 16:57

#16

Draycos

The reward gear is mostly

The reward gear is mostly crap. Almirian Crusader is more like Almirian Crusader... Costume.

The keys are going for a minimum of 30k at the moment, and a lot of people have been saying you won't earn back what you spend on the key... especially because of revival costs.

While I'm not against the content itself, I'm against horrible 'endgame' gear and insane entry costs-they're meant to be for skilled players, if they aren't skilled, it'll be a loss of crowns. If they are, then they earn a lot. That's only how I'd like it to be, but no, SHADOW KEYS.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 17:01

#17

Richy

Please calling someone a

Please calling someone a silly individual when you type a wall of text without breaking it into paragraphs is well, silly.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 17:02

#18

Draycos

Making a big deal about

Making a big deal about grammar and neatness is sillier than that, you know.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 17:03

#19

Madadder

Echoez

u may get a few dozen people but they dont represent the community as a whole. OOO does their own research and while voicing your opinion is taken into account, they may not do anything seeing that the content is deemed acceptable. just because you don't see it that way doesnt make you right

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 17:05

#20

Draycos

Madadder, keep in mind a lot

Madadder, keep in mind a lot of people don't use the forums. They might have objections to the update, but they don't voice it because they choose not to go on the forums. Additionally, even if it doesn't represent the community as a whole, the huge number of people objecting to the content on the forums compared to the people accepting it is pretty... drastic.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 17:07

#21

Alice-In-Pyroland

Please calling someone a

Please calling someone a silly individual when you type a wall of text without breaking it into paragraphs is well, silly.

And attacking someone's grammar when you're unable to actually instead address any of the points they made is even sillier. Besides that if I'm writing a rant on the internet regarding an update for a video game and making a petition related to it, I don't really think writing it like a proper essay is really going to make a difference lol

"u may get a few dozen people but they dont represent the community as a whole. OOO does their own research and while voicing your opinion is taken into account, they may not do anything seeing that the content is deemed acceptable. just because you don't see it that way doesnt make you right"

I don't recall one implying otherwise and I can't for the life of me work out what your point is.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 17:09

#22

Madadder

Draycos

its the same as 5/17 where people nearly rioted against OOO. in time things will die down, maybe OOO will change up somethings who knows. i doubt, however, that it will be anywhere near what the community would call "acceptable"

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 17:17

#23

Richy

Keep in mind the part of the

Keep in mind the part of the update your complaining about doesn't effect a absolute ton of people. As far as the T2 and T1 people are concerned this is probably a great update. They cannot play these anyways and it makes the cost of lockboxes go up which they can sell. So I would have to guess T1 or T2 players actually like this.

And sorry, I have a hard time taking a post seriously when it is a wall of text and SOMEONE HAS TO USE CAPS LOCK TO MAKE A POINT. I also have a hard time addressing your point when there really is only one point that you make and that is that opening a lockbox doesn't guarantee you get a shadow key. Welp, there is this thing called the auction house which your guaranteed to get the key if you bid on it and win the bid. You first say that it is a rehash of previous content, well in some ways yes it is, but judging whether you like this content is for everyone. Do not act like you speak for everyone when saying this new content sucks. A majority of people will venture into it just to get these items to say they have them(like me).

I am in no way a "rich" player on this game but I will at least try to make some money to buy keys in the AH. And oh, I think the fact they say bring some friends implies that you could split the cost. So if a key cost 35k in the AH, you split that four ways. Around 8.5k each, which you can make 7k on a jelly king run, so I would think that the fact is says increased payout means you can make more than 8.5k on a run.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 17:23

#24

Draycos

I'll keep this one short as I

I'll keep this one short as I can. There are more t3 players out there than there are t1/2. Italics don't exist on this forum to my knowledge, so caps is the only other option for emphasis. While it may 'help' t1/2 players anyways, T3 players haven't gotten any t3 oriented content for months on end and then it turns out you need to spend real life cash or spend a huge amount of time to get a single run of the new dungeons in. It's a stab in the back, really, and the only T3 players that think otherwise are, mostly, newer players or not t3 to begin with.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 17:29

#25

Argune

signed

You would think the gate costs and gear requirements + potential res costs and difficulty would be enough.
feels like its more trouble then its worth and i was looking forward to new teir 3 content. :/

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 17:44

#26

Kickthebucket

i allready don't give a crap

i allready don't give a crap anymore haha, big deal fancy new armor to show off you have to much money and time on your hands :)

let OOO have the money (and let the fools give it) i don't think half the people could actualy got trough the lvl's (including me) i mean snarby is a bigger boss there then T3 vanaduke...

and hope we get some nice content FOR FREE next time, now that i will sign :)

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 17:44

#27

Alice-In-Pyroland

"Keep in mind the part of the

"Keep in mind the part of the update your complaining about doesn't effect a absolute ton of people. As far as the T2 and T1 people are concerned this is probably a great update. They cannot play these anyways and it makes the cost of lockboxes go up which they can sell. So I would have to guess T1 or T2 players actually like this."

That still doesn't change the fact that they've had new content coming for months where as tier 3 players have been left out to dry and then a more or less kicked in the teeth for been loyal and supporting OOO up until now.

Anyhow since Dracyos has more or less addressed the rest of your post already, I suppose I'll at least clean up the OP a bit since it was apparently upsetting you so much.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 18:14

#28

Oakgear

@Madadder

Your being a negative nancy, but you still have a point
When has OOO given a crap about anything in the past?
Don't get me wrong, this is a good and brave thing your doing, but will it truly work?
Basically the shadow keys just tie into the over cost of the silver keys
So this in the end is a petition that is a branch off of the real problem
You shouldn't start from the bottom because behind all that dislike and hate over the update all leads back to the over cost of the silver keys
So don't focus on the little thing that the box happens to crap out, because if there's a decline in the price for the key for the box then whatever inside the box will to significantly decrease in price
Then your earnings to expenses are better or equal
Really Echoez this is a good thing just saying your caring about an effect of the real problem instead of the problem itself

@Richy
No i don't like it (Don't get me wrong I'm not a Tier2 noob I just have been using my daily energy to help people catch up in my guild so i only have one 4* weapon while the rest is still 3*)
Sure maybe I'd like to go down into the update once I get into Tier3 in about 3 weeks, but it's near to impossible to do it
And you need some good and trustworthy friends if their going to split the cost of crowns or CE 4 ways (Got some in my guild, but still)
There's still the chance that you won't even get the shadow key if your group splits the CE to open a lockbox, then their just gonna hate and spit on your grave in clockworks, because only one person can have an accessory
And the selling part what are you talking about?
Sure prices would go up and that means bad news for me because for the dumbest reasons I've never gotten a box from the wheel instead a friend sells one to me directly for 1.5k, but his generosity won't last if the prices rise
Not that selling it for better money would be bad, but then that would be bad for others Tier3 including because you might want to buy a box because eventually the shadow keys will be more than triple the amount of a silver key

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 18:19

#29

No-Thanks

Zelda

yay im number 25~~

they should make the armors 5 times stronger and 50 times harder to get in terms of material costs..MATERIAL COSTS!!!

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 18:21

#30

Nechrome

im still T2, but i agree that

im still T2, but i agree that the shadow keys would be some bit of a nuisance once i reach T3. Maybe, instead of requiring a shodow key, maybe they can up the cost of the elevator fee instead. like, u know how there are chains around the elevator that the shadow key unlocks? why dont they put something like danger room gates that block the way to the elevator that cost 10 ce to open. or 25. or 30. some amount that's more expensive than the ordinary price, anyways.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 18:30

#31

Fehzor

Signed.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 18:39

#32

The-Ark

wait a minute!

game companies do this all the time, they release new conntent at a rediculouse price, so that the richer people will pay a TON to try it, then when the exitement wares off, they lower the price.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 18:47

#33

Vyftien

Signed. Not that i care

Signed. Not that i care really. Once Diablo 3 launches I'm out of here!

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 19:03

#34

Richy

There's still the chance that

There's still the chance that you won't even get the shadow key if your group splits the CE to open a lockbox, then their just gonna hate and spit on your grave in clockworks, because only one person can have an accessory

Like I already said, there was a update a while ago, called the Auction House, which will soon be spammed with many many shadow keys for a good price. I consider a lot of my friends pretty trustworthy, so pitching in to buy a key for a little fun is a pretty easy thing to do.

Diablo 3 doesn't come out till the end of 2012 no? I originally had heard they switched the original release dates or SWTOR and Diablo 3 around.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 20:27

#35

Hoojah

Bling for your buck

I'd have thought the way to make money from these free to play games is to sell cheap to a lot of people not to sell high to a few. And who are these few spending so much money on a game that compares poorly with full price games out there? I guess its easy to spend money online when you're high and drunk, i know i've done it but, boy, did i feel like an ass the morning after.

I know I can continue to play this game and access the content i have already enjoyed for free. I did spend money at the start but now I can see ways to get all my five star gear in time without spending another penny. However, the thought that i may be missing content because i resent the costs involved is going to bug me. Accessories i can live without but missing out on playable content will annoy.

I can already feel the persistent dullness and repetitiveness of this game sapping my will to play. Even the best games have that affect on me after a few months. These recent additions by OOO will only drive me away sooner.

I'm not sure why i am adding to this rant as it's hard to care that much about something so transient and trivial as a low budget, f2p game. I guess what galls me is the stupidity i perceive from OOO. If they are only interested in making money i just cannot believe that this is the best way to do it. They could have easily fooled me into spending money to access deeper content with higher gate prices (20, 30 even 50 for a boss gate with great rewards) which i would have repeated many times and not realised the constant dribble of micro-payments i would have made for the extra CE. But their current additions make a relatively high cash demand which, per hour played, dwarfs even the price of playing premium subscription games.

I guess there must be people out there with more money than discernment willing to fund OOO's short sighted greed. But seriously guys, if you want to spend that kind of money why play a f2p game that looks and smells 'free to play'? Don't you want some bling for your buck?

Oh, and in case it was unclear, consider your petition signed, Echoez.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 20:46

#36

Brychan

I think the real way to sign

I think the real way to sign this is by not supporting OOO with our $$.

Signed.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 21:06

#37

Trihelix

I've noticed a lot of players

I've noticed a lot of players saying "this will be just like 5/17, things will die down and all be okay."

There are a few crucial differences between 10/18 and 5/17, besides the fact that one is in May and the other in October.

-Other than screwing the players who crafted and sold 4*/5* items for a profit, the 5/17 update did nothing but fix the grossly under-priced system that was Spiral Knights currency. No one paid to play, when one could very easily reach 5* just by playing the game methodically for a few weeks. It was like Netflix. Netflix was also very heavily under-priced, but when consumers were used to such low prices for movies the "drastic" increase to a realistic price resulted in an uproar. One could mass craft Omega Shells for ~20,000 crowns, and sell them for 3,000+ CE. It was a broken system that needed to be fixed to keep OOO afloat.

-This update screwed everyone that has killed Vanaduke, and has been waiting for new endgame content since April/May. Basically, OOO makes a few cosmetic changes to monsters and areas and calls it "new," and to make it worse makes it nearly impossible to reach. I'll use Khamsin as an example. He spent $45 on Silver Keys, to get a grand total of zero Shadow Keys. Let's put that into perspective.

A console game packed with anywhere from 15-70 hours of gameplay can be purchased for this amount or a bit more.
The state of New York was purchased for $24.
$45 is the amount of money an American minimum-wage worker makes in 6 hours.

See what I'm getting at? Oh, did I mention that you have to drop this kind of cash for ONE chance at a dungeon that is sure to cost new players at least several CE revives? All for a bit of extra heat and crowns, and maybe some new equipment? You could very easily spend more than $100 just getting a piece of new armor. We're talking about 120+ hours worth of money spent on console games, or the amount of money you spend on food in an average week.

-Bottom line: this is probably the worst marketing ploy made in the history of gaming, and I'm being completely serious on that one. I'm not going to gamble away my _real_ money on something that a) isn't worth it and b) I'm not even guaranteed to get. Spiral Knights is the only game I've ever played that honestly has me dreading updates. Am I the only person who thinks "Oh, what has OOO done to screw their game over this time," every time a message is received from the Spiral Knights System? Doubtful.

Oh yeah, I signed the petition. Not sure I'll be playing much anymore, and no, I'm not giving away my stuff.

Here's to OOO hopefully realizing what a terrible mistake this is.

-Tri

Thu, 10/20/2011 - 07:27

#38

Vyftien

@ Richy, not really sure when

@ Richy, not really sure when it will be release exactly, last i heard they were in beta and predicting a Q1 release next year.

"I'll use Khamsin as an example. He spent $45 on Silver Keys, to get a grand total of zero Shadow Keys. Let's put that into perspective.

A console game packed with anywhere from 15-70 hours of gameplay can be purchased for this amount or a bit more.
The state of New York was purchased for $24.
$45 is the amount of money an American minimum-wage worker makes in 6 hours."

QFT. With $45 i can get a brand new console game, with multiplayer functions! MW3 im talking about you! Okay its not that bad a game, c'mon!

Thu, 10/20/2011 - 07:35

#39

Chepo

signed.

Thu, 10/20/2011 - 07:46

#40

Manta

The Sky is NOT Falling

If you don't approve in the new content, then don't participate in it.

This sends a stronger message than bitter petitions.

Thu, 10/20/2011 - 07:56

#41

Redmania

TORCHLIGHT 2

Just throwing it out there, but Torchlight 2 is coming soon.

Would you rather spend $20 opening 4-5 lockboxes or $20 on a spanking new online RPG.
Then we have Diablo 3 in 2012!

Thu, 10/20/2011 - 08:04

#42

Djbiomas

Totally signed, also im not

Totally signed, also im not spending any more cash on this game anymore. If there was a FOR SURE chance of getting a key i might be more inclined of buying CE

Thu, 10/20/2011 - 08:26

#43

Spamisalreadyinuse

i hope in the future they put

i hope in the future they put all their new content in those delectable little boxes.

Thu, 10/20/2011 - 12:00

#44

Verd

Agreed

Signed. Let's hope they change how to get this in the incoming weeks. Like for example, using tokens to get a shadow key for one. Or using the bribery system like in King Krogmo's Coliseum.

Thu, 10/20/2011 - 12:04

#45

Happyapathy

Start a movement people:

P.S. People, don't give in to the "I WANT IT NOW" urge and buy a ton of silver keys now, just be patient and wait, when the cash dries up OOO will change their system and you will feel better when you do get your shadow key, gambling for a key now will only encourage them to stay with the current system and will not help your fellow players, pull your lockboxes from the AH for now (they may be worth more later ;) ), and if you see someone opening a bunch of boxes /epicfail them, please spread this message in-game and/or add this message to your posts.

Thu, 10/20/2011 - 12:27

#46

Bluescreenofdeath

signed

Thu, 10/20/2011 - 12:43

#47

Hanktron

I don't see the point of the outrage

Be rational and decide if the new content is worth it (for most players, it is not). If you decide it is worth it, participate. You decided it was worth it and you are now better off for participating in the new content. If you decide it is not worth it, do not participate. The new content is pretty much external to the game; if you enjoyed the game before, you will still enjoy the game. You are no worse off. If you did not enjoy the game and were playing anyway in hopes of new content, you need to return to the "be rational" step.

Thu, 10/20/2011 - 13:07

#48

Crazywave

Im truly Mad

Im Truly Mad because you need to buy a Shadow Key to get in the new Area and see the new monsters and Boss,
im playing since Beta and i dont care to waste my real money on energy but to see new monsters and boss that are from the actual game im against this Cr@p 100% i think this is Wrong, there some things that Should be truly loyal to the game like monsters or boss... now we need to find or buy a key just see the new boss or monsters..... Three Rings you made it big this time, You FAIL! and FAIL big Time!

Thu, 10/20/2011 - 13:30

#49

Alice-In-Pyroland

The new content is pretty

The new content is pretty much external to the game;

No it isn't by any stretch of the imagination. It's currently the only tier 3 exclusive content besides FSC, Briar Bone Barrage and Stygian Steeds and is for all intents and purposes the current 'endgame' for players. It's effectively the content tier 3 players have been waiting for over the last few months and now we're expected to pay every single time we want to access it.

if you enjoyed the game before, you will still enjoy the game. You are no worse off. If you did not enjoy the game and were playing anyway in hopes of new content, you need to return to the "be rational" step.

So instead of wanting the game we enjoy to get better we should instead be complacent with awful updates we disagree with? More to the point this logic may work for some games (Map packs in FPS for example) but an MMO lives and dies by its content, the whole 'ignore it if you don't like it' nonsense plain and simply doesn't apply here.

Okay here's a question to anyone out there that is in favour of this recent update; why do you think the Shadow Keys in their current state are a good idea? How are they, in anyway beneficial to the game? It bewilders me how people are capable of voicing their opposition to people explaining why this update is a bad thing yet no one has yet been to explain how it's good in any concievable manner, the best defense for it so far is 'ignore it'.

Thu, 10/20/2011 - 13:41

#50

Hanktron

It's a good idea

because it adds content. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean everyone does not. There are more options out there, which means more opportunities for people to enjoy the game. I enjoyed the game before the patch and I still do. I'm no worse off and some people are better off. I was happy with the game where it was. The addition of the keys (of both flavors) has done absolutely nothing to detract from that enjoyment. So, my enjoyment level is the same and someone else probably enjoys the game more now. I'm not some over-privileged, entitled brat that demands the world on a silver platter.

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The "Official" Anti-Shadow Key petition