guns kick ass, especially with dmg trinkets, u mentioned duke already

i thot bout needling the new jk, since hes on his own now, before that ive still been able to deal tons of dmg with alchemer charge attacks

while RT might take a while to die, the guns r useful for switches and i bet u havent bombed on either of the bosses yet, cuz bombing RT isnt all that great either

i havent gunned snarb, but hes a edible like a little marshmallow with any kind of teeth

and since when do ur own weapons determine how quick u die in pvp

id only agree on armors, but im happy enough with the current possibilities for gunners

Polaris does way less damage than swords and even alchemers, but I guess I won't get into that debate again.

You have my full support.

The only piece of Gunner Armor that gives out a Damage Bonus is the Shadowsun set, but it only gives DB: Low and makes you completely vulnerable to the Gran Faust. Seriously-- DB: Low?! Why do Swordsmen get Medium on their armor (Skolver, new Snarbolax set)?! And even with Damage Bonus (I have Very High thanks to the two Trinkets), my guns can only tickle people in PvP. God forbid I'd want to swap those out with Tri-Heart Pendants to like, you know, SURVIVE-- my damage would be completely pitiful.

Sure, we have Attack Speed Increase armor, but that isn't all that useful, really. Maybe if it affected reload time, but not as it is now. Maybe throw in a Charge Time Reduction: Low armor or something?

The only way to be semi-useful is to Polaris spam an opposing point with a team backing you up, and that's arguably outclassed by the Voltaic Tempest because any Recon who doesn't completely suck will be able to outmaneuver the shots and give you an unexpected whack in the face with a Gran Faust to take you out, making it much easier for his team to handle the situation.

Most guns are entirely useless, too-- Biohazard? I will laugh in the face of anyone who brings one into Lockdown. Autoguns? They don't work-- only the first shot does damage before an opposing player gets temporary immunity. Valiance? Lol, the slight knockback will never be able to push back a charging Flourish user enough to avoid being getting obliterated. Then again, most Swords are pretty useless too, so this point is less significant, I'll admit.

Guns should not be able to out-DPS swords. But seriously, they have no use outside of PvM-- our only strengths, really, are that we can charge into a mob and abuse the everloving crap out of our Alchemer ricochets, absolutely decimate the more difficult monsters with the Callahan (gg Devilites and Wolvers), and be able to pick off Silkwings/Gremlin Healers from the middle of an Arena with nice Callahan/Sentenza shots, respectively. In PvP, there is nothing a Gunner can do that contributes significantly to their team.

Suggestions:
- Slight damage buff. Nothing crazy, but more then the pathetic amount we dish out now compared to swords.
- Useful Armor. Please. The Shadowsun set, as it is now, is not worth making.
- Make the charge shots useful! Seriously, who will ever use a charged Argent Peacemaker, Sentenza, Callahan, or Polaris? (exception: Alchemers)
- Make Autoguns useful in PvP! An opposing player shouldn't get temporary invulnerability when they're up against one-- otherwise, only ONE of the 15 shots from a fully charged Volanic Pepperbox/Blitz Needle/Plague Needle will hit them. That's the way it is now, and it's more than stupid to give up a full second of mobility to pop ~60 damage on someone.

ps. @Pookycakes: If a Gunner is standing that far back and just spamming his shots, he's doing it wrong. I get just as close to monsters as Swordsmen/Bombers do-- otherwise, the power of my ricochet goes completely to waste.

"An experienced FSC Gunner could just do the dungeon in Proto Armor if he only uses guns."
lies

If I could go to FSC without armor at all then I could do it without problem as a gunner.

#8 i understand the issues but they sound more like regular complaints and/or wishes to me, cuz i(and many others i believe) can do fine with guns in most places. also guns cant be blamed for pug or other kinds of party fails, ull know what i mean if uve bombed before. weapons and playstyles dont always collaborate

#9 i can imagine som1 doing it with a valiance and/or good shield bumpings, but i saw the video of the guy who did it with a DA and that seems much easier to me, feel free to prove me wrong, id watch the full video this time, cuz once a zombie jumps u things might get uneasy. also make sure not to use CE revives, because technically any weapon could get u through if u kept reviving, even if thers limited energy it should suffice for a good player, who doesnt lag too much

"An experienced FSC Gunner could just do the dungeon in Proto Armor if he only uses guns."
lies

If I could go to FSC without armor at all then I could do it without problem as a gunner.

If the dungeon had a butt ton of open space, sure, it would be do-able. What about those really tight-knit rooms, though? Remember that Guns can't knock anything back (save for like, the Valiance, but that thing is horrible). If you can do a FSC run (minus Vana) in full Proto, in a REASONABLE AMOUNT OF TIME, I'll give you 1k CE. "Reasonable" because any idiot can take an hour to do each floor slowly and carefully-- but for us Gunners to keep up with Swordsmen in terms of damage, we need to be just as "risky" as they are.

And I'm sorry, but Swording is not "High Risk". Bombs are MUCH more High Risk than Swords are given that you can't defend yourself while you attack. If you walk up to a mob and smack it with a sword, you can push it back far enough with knockback so that it won't be able to hit you, so long as you're careful about it. Being close to something doesn't always put you at a disadvantage. And what about Wolver? You shoot them, they teleport behind you, they bite you in the butt. Kiting ftw.

I'm not saying Swording is easy and that Gunning is super hard, but there's more to it than standing back and spamming right click if you want to actually do enough damage to be considered good at it.

I went gunner because I like been different mainly. I may be imagining it but I seem to get noticed more often for it, I have a friend list of 50+ many of them requests sent to me :D, sometimes people ask me how I complete certain anti-gunner tasks like jk (that may have changed now though) and my answer is "friends", I'll be completely honest and admit I play a support role but I think a team with a gunner/bomber + 3 swords will do better then a pure 4 swords team.

I seem to play team "medic" I find as getting hit less means I tend to have a reliable store of health needed to revive someone, the guys with swords (with same * gear as each other) will tend to lose health at a similar rate meaning when one of them goes down the others will probably also be near death themselves and won't be able to help that much.

I can't say what works better for certain though, a gunner doing less damage but having more health available + 3 swords vs. 4 swords doing more damage but having less spare health available for revives when needed as I've never really tried swords that much, any thoughts?

P.S. People, don't give in to the "I WANT IT NOW" urge and buy a ton of silver keys now, just be patient and wait, when the cash dries up OOO will change their system and you will feel better when you do get your shadow key, gambling for a key now will only encourage them to stay with the current system and will not help your fellow players, pull your lockboxes from the AH for now (they may be worth more later ;) ), and if you see someone opening a bunch of boxes /epicfail them, please spread this message in-game and/or copy this message into your posts.

*#8 i understand the issues but they sound more like regular complaints and/or wishes to me*

Some of it may have fallen into thoes catagorys, however I feel that the idea to allow a charged gunholder to move on par with a sword or bomb user *once his charge is complete* is a valid and objective proposition. This still would allow bombers and swordsmen to have an iniatiave in PvP and at the same time would help make some of the gunners best nukes ( blitz, especially callahan, looken @ you ) to be a tad more than awkward and useless at best. I mean callahan, isnt getting knocked back 2 squares and falling flat on your keyster enough punnishment? ( although it is the most sexy way to get on an elevator ^_^ )

Im not even really fishing for a huge numbers buff or necessarily a damage buff at all really, thoes were merely suggestions. What I have outlined above imvho is more a quality of life buff for gunners and would make for smoother gameplay.

I don't pvp much, don't need krogmo coins really, so i can't say really.

About wolvers:

It may seem gunners are useless against them cause a lot of gunners go grab a needle autogun for their pierce weapon and end up awkwardly turning this way desperately trying to get them...

...what you don't see nearly as much is Me + Mr. Callahan wiping out entire packs of alpha wolvers solo in T2 + T3 arenas, the magnus line seems to be underused compared to the blitz needle, don't know why, Callahan is essentially my signature weapon I love the thing, the pause when you fire is much smaller so dodging attacks is easy with a bit of practice, the shot moves just as fast or maybe faster then the antigua so its very hard for wolvers to dodge, plus often once you hit a wolver (not alpha) it knocks it off its feet or stuns it, if you keep shooting you can literally juggle the poor beast to death. I have no problems with wolvers as a gunner, just keep moving and shooting.

*It may seem gunners are useless against them cause a lot of gunners go grab a needle autogun for their pierce weapon and end up awkwardly turning this way desperately trying to get them...*

Its all about shield charging and baiting them into a compromising angle. I used to stand by the magnus line on wolver however as of late I have begun to prefer blitz for wolver and devilites <--( all about learning to straife left / right while charging if they cant be kept at distence.)

Edit- And yes, imo the OP embelishes the problem quite a bit in his OP.

/thisthreadhasbeenmovedtothearsenal

If you think guns deal low dmg... you are... WRONG. The only thing i hate is when OOO ignore gunslinger users = (. Gunslingers needs new stuff too !