Spiral Knights - Deciding on a Final Weapon

Deciding on a Final Weapon

13 replies [Last post]

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 13:52

Evildarkvoid

As of now, I'm planning on having Gran Faust, Argent Peacemaker, and Electron Vortex with Vog Coat, Barbarous Thorn Shield, and Divine Veil. This gives me a sword, gun, and bomb as well as a weapon with good effectiveness against anything other than Beast (and sort of constructs since Electron isn't a damage bomb). So, with that in mind, I wanted my last weapon to be good with Electron Vortex (which means it has to be a sword or bomb, but I prefer sword) that is good against Beasts and maybe Constructs. So, here are the weapons I was thinking of:

Wild Hunting Blade
Barbarous Thorn Blade
Final Flourish
Fearless Rigadoon
Furious Flamberge
Combuster
Voltedge
Glacius
Divine Avenger

The five top ones are good against Beasts either due to beast bonus or piercing. The lower 4 are good againt construct because they are elemental. Now to narrow the list down. From what I can tell, the Flourish's charge attack doesn't go nearly as well with Electron as BTB does. Next, since I will usually use the sword together with Electron, Glacius and Combuster are better than Voltedge. Then I decided to list the pros and cons of all of the remaining weapons.

Wild Hunting Blade
Pros:
Since it deals normal damage, it doesn't need as good a UV to still damage constructs decently
It has a 2 star version so it is easy to get UVs for
Cons:
Since it's speed is already high, Vog and the ASI trinkets I want to buy don't help it much
Its overall power is very low so it doesn't deal much damage to mobs
Its charge attack lasts a long time so it can leave you vulnerable if the Electron Vortex fails to shock enemies
No status effect

Barbarous Thorn Blade
Pros:
Pretty good damage
Its charge attack has a little bit of range, which is always handy
Due to being pure piercing it deals very large damage against beasts
Cons:
Pure piercing means it deals such pathetic damage to construct that I can't use it for them
No special effect
You start alchemizing it at 3 star, so its fairly costly to get good UVs

Divine Avenger
Pros:
Very good damage
Due to having split elemental and normal damage, it deals good damage to Construct while being usable against Beast
Its charge atack has range
Cons:
I'm pretty sure its charge attack will never hit enemies in an Electron Vortex more than once
No special effect
You start alchemizing it at 4 star so it is very hard to get good UVs

Combuster:
Pros:
Pretty good damage
Due to having split elemental and normal damage, it deals good damage to Construct while being usable against Beast
Fire lets it deal damage over time
Pretty good damage while still having decent speed
Its charge attack works well with Electron Vortex
You can start alchemizing it at 2 star, so you can get good UVs without too much trouble
Cons:
None that I can think of

Glacius:
Pros:
Same as Combuster, but deals a bit less damage in exchange for being easier to chain enemies with it and Electron
Cons:
None that I can think of

So based on that, it seems like Divine Avenger and WHB have more downsides than the others so Glacius, Combuster, and BTB seem like my best bet. At first, Combuster and Glacius seem to far outclass BTB for my situation, but I should end up with more trouble against Beast than I would Construct, so BTB is still a choice. So my question is basically: Do Electron Vortex, AP, and GF handle Constructs well enough that I should go with BTB, or would it be more beneficial to use a 5 star Brandish with a Beast UV? And, if the Brandishes are the way to go, we come back to the ancient question of Combuster vs. Glacius.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 16:34

Sypsy

Will come back to read your

Will come back to read your wall of text for a more thought-out reply, but I had to ask you something first.

Why carry AP for general purpose? (I'm assuming this isn't your fsc gear since you'll be using a barb shield)
It takes up a slot that is only against two mobs, undead and fiends. It is barely good against devilites due to their dodge, and greavers are best dealt with swords. It will also not do well against polyps and gunpuppies.

Gran faust is fine against beasts since shadow damage is neutral against them.

EDIT:

So first off, unless you have a good CTR UV, or two ctr trinkets (which is a waste), it could be difficult to lay an electron vortex, charge, then attack. At least, this sort of damage won't be efficient. Although, I don't have this bomb, how easily can you lay the bomb then charge your AP? This will allow you to see at what point you can release the charge during the bomb's vortex on a normal sword. The gran faust's charge is far too long, so don't use it to test your strategy.
In my opinion, you would be better off laying the bomb, switching to the sword and dealing normal swings for high damage to a condensed group of mobs. You would be able to get off several swings. For instance, with your gf, you could swing-shield-swing-swing for the most damage before the vortex disappears.

Given this, I would recommend the DA as your 4th weapon.

My friend has an electron vortex. The combination of his vortexs with my DA destroys slags very quickly in FSC. Further to this, the DA charge will hit the slags multiple times since it will push them out of the bomb slightly, with a few being tossed out, and the rest snapping back in, only to be tossed out by the bomb. It's a mess of numbers, so it's very hard to see since I don't normally look out for it. If I'm not charging, the DA's second swing is very deadly against a group of mobs in a vortex. The knockback is useful to clear the area so we're safe.

Second, I recommend the DA because you have your gran faust. If you like the 2-swing swords more than 3-swing swords, I say you should stick with what you like. This let's you get used to 2-swing swords way more and use them effectively. By having one shadow and one elemental, you ensure you can damage everything at lest normally. GF will deal decent damage to beasts, elemental will deal decent damage to fiends.

Lastly, you may want to destroy turret mobs from afar, and the AP will be weak against two of them. (Although the damage is mixed, the numbers seem to be penalized even more than you would expect. I don't recommend this gun for general use) The DA will make up for that with its charged attack which can hit from a distance and does very good damage.

The glacius & combuster, though good, will not be good choices since:
a) your won't be charging into your own vortex unless you have a good ctr.
b) the normal swings are too narrow for attacking a cluster of mobs in your vortex
c) there is no knockback, which sounds important for the type of strategy you're trying to execute
d) you already have shock status from the bomb, this offers damage over time and some crowd control already

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 16:49

Rangerwillx

@Sypsy

I highly disagree.
My Brandishs, Silent Nightblade And Boltbrand, both can easily get a charge off with my electron vortex.
No, I don't have a CTR UV, I don't have Trinkets, just a couple of Lvl10 Brandishs.
I imagine a CTR UV or trinket would help, but you don't need them.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 17:46

Sypsy

Interesting. Then I stand

Interesting. Then I stand corrected.

But I still like the DA with the 2nd swing knockback into a vortex of mobs. Let alone a charge.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 18:02

Rangerwillx

Perhaps, but..

Yes, I imagine the DA would be nice. But it would be more dangerous.
And you cannot defend because of the 2nd swing.
After the second swing if there are any monsters left alive, then they will attack you.
And the shock of the vortex, may prevent them from being knocked back from the 2nd swing.
And you cannot defend because of the longness of 2nd swing.
With a brandish charge, you can shield very quickly after.
I might make a small video just for fun, and to show with no CTR that it is easily possible.
Note: Yes, I know I don't HAVE to make a video, you believe me. But meh, I am making one. :P
Velcro already made one, he had a CTR on his sword though, so he is not allowed. :P
And I do agree with you.. a AP is not a very good sidearm compared to one of the Alchemers or Polaris.
Or maybe even a Callahan or Needle.. meh.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 22:25

Velcro

http://forums.spiralknights.c

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/21959

This discusses this topic into heavy detail.

I also stand-by Ranger's comments. Without UVs, you can get the charge off in time for the Vortex bombs with good timing.

Sun, 10/23/2011 - 00:32

Sypsy

@VelcroInteresting. Never

@Velcro
Interesting. Never read that thread before. I guess OP's answer is buried within.

I'll bring my glacius into FSC more to see the differences between the two, especially since the DA doesn't wall hack anymore.

I prefer DA against undead more than my glacius, so I think I'll still prefer the DA when doing normal swings into the vortex.
This may apply to OP, especially since he will be using a vog + asi trinkets.

Sun, 10/23/2011 - 04:33

Evildarkvoid

Thanks for your help

So, I've read through the comments on this page and on the one Velcro linked to and it seems like I should switch AP for Polaris+BTB or Callahan+Glacius. I thought a split-damage gun was good if you only planned on having one gun, but it looks like I was wrong. The Polaris is looking appealing because, unlike other guns, it seems like it could work together with Electron Vortex if all else fails (GF curses both my swords, for example). The explosion would probably let it hit multiple enemies in the Vortex and the shock could really help too. Unfortunately, the Polaris might be a bit of a pain to get since my computer lags on the Twins, so would Magma Driver be an acceptable replacement or would that just make it completely outclassed by Callahan+Glacius?

Sun, 10/23/2011 - 05:23

Bopp

so the options are?

So the options you're considering are these?

Electron Vortex, Gran Faust, Barbarous Thorn Blade, Polaris
Electron Vortex, Gran Faust, Barbarous Thorn Blade, Magma Driver
Electron Vortex, Gran Faust, Callahan, Glacius

I'll ignore the bomb for a moment. All of these options cover the three damage types (piercing, elemental, shadow) using a mixture of swords and guns. The only difference is whether elemental is sword and piercing is gun, or vice-versa. In all of these options, your piercing weapon is fast enough to hit wolvers and devilites. So all three options work. The bomb is a nice extra touch.

The second option is just as good as the first. Really, any elemental gun should work. Storm Driver is nice, although you already have shock on your bomb. Sadly, I don't recommend Hail Driver. I don't know much about Nova Driver.

The conventional wisdom probably favors the first two options over the third, because an elemental gun is disproportionately useful for taking out turrets. (Gun puppies and howlitzers are vulnerable to elemental, while polyps are neutral to it.) On the other hand, charging Glacius into your Electron Vortex would be pretty effective (except against gremlins and beasts).

In general, I think Final Flourish is just as good as Barbarous Thorn Blade (albeit different). But I've never used it with a vortex bomb.

Sun, 10/23/2011 - 12:27

Sypsy

Bopp's comments +1 I'd lean

Bopp's comments +1

I'd lean on Option 1, due to the expanded bullet's damage in the vortex is quite good while the ricochet of the driver is less reliable (or I am just a poor shot.)
The polaris' knockback could be annoying if you spam it poorly in parties. This may be a non-issue for you, as you would more likely drop your bomb in a party and only use the gun for turrets.

As far as FF vs BTB, I'd imagine the final flourish swipes will be able to hit multiple mobs in the vortex while the spikes would only hit the first 1 or 2 mobs it encounters. I don't have a BTB, so can someone else confirm this? Practically speaking, I think it's just personal preference and one isn't better than the other for damage.

Sun, 10/23/2011 - 14:09

#10

Evildarkvoid

Thanks

Okay, it looks like I will be going with Electron Vortex, Gran Faust, Polaris, and FF/BTB. Does anyone have confirmation as to whether FF can hit multiple enemies in a Voertex? That would be what decided which sword I get.

Sun, 10/23/2011 - 14:28

#11

Velcro

Concerning EV, in my opinion

Concerning EV, in my opinion the best style of sword to use with it is any of the Brandish series. But it is also very useful to have a piercing sword to deal with fiends and wolvers. Personally I'd say that the need for the piercing weapon does outclass the Brandish, but just be open to the idea of possibly using Acheron later on. Though hitting a clump with GF might be decent too for the chance of curse to be honest, and Polaris is probably in the top 2 of guns to use on monsters in an EV at least.

I use a BTB in conjunction with EV as its charge attack is much more manageable with EV. I would recommend BTB in this sense. But, concerning weapons paired with EV, Brandish style weapons far outclass it and you'd be better off using your Polaris on the EV'd monsters in most cases. And against Piercing weak enemies Vortex is not so great anyway since charging a Vortex against Devilites or Greavers is suicide. It works okay against Wolvers though.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 23:54

#12

Fiendishknight

Combuster, the charge attack

Combuster, the charge attack works perfectly with the Electron Vortex, also Fire is a very good status to compliment the shock from the bomb.

Shock + Freeze work against each other, and you won't need the Voltedge if your Electron Voltedge provides shock. If an oiler pops out, use your GF to bash it to death.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 07:24

#13

Kraanx

theres another possibility

a sudaruska or a triglav´s charge while enemies are inside vortex may be quite effective, especialy triglav, since it may freeze the enemy, alowing you to charge G.V again, and normal damage has no resistances.
yes i noticed you didnt put these on the list.
and i know theres ppl out there who epic hate troika line cuz its charge is nerfed.
but still, its worth a try.
if u arent used to heavy swords, forget this.
now i shall dance.

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Deciding on a Final Weapon