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Unique variants: Weapon "Very High" vs. Armor "Maximum!"

28 replies [Last post]
Sun, 10/30/2011 - 19:43
Dyaus's picture
Dyaus

According to the Wiki, t's possible to get the following UVs on a weapon:

Low (worth 1 "point")
Medium (worth 2 "points")
High (worth 3 "points")
Very High (worth 4 "points")

However, it's possible to get the following UVs on helm/shield/armor:

Low (worth 1 "point")
Medium (worth 2 "points")
High (worth 3 "points")
Maximum! (worth ???)

Is "Maximum!" on helm/shield/armor worth the same as "Very High" on a weapon?

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 19:49
#1
Ubernerd's picture
Ubernerd
"Maximum!" is the same for

"Maximum!" is the same for everything: 6 points.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 20:19
#2
Dyaus's picture
Dyaus
Are you sure? That would mean

Are you sure? That would mean that a "Maximum!" UV on armor is worth twice as much as a "High" UV. (Which... seems silly.)

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 22:51
#3
Broxaim's picture
Broxaim
there hasn't been enough

there hasn't been enough tests to confirm armor values..

but for weapons, cos they 'stack' you can see the levels on your character screen
low med high vhigh ultra max

but armor bonuses stack as well but you'll never be able to tell on your character screen
if both helm and armor had high normal defense, your character sheet wouldn't show a longer normal defense bar, but wouldn't qualify the defense value.

only if someone does tests can you really evaluate the differences.
I would like to, only when i get the gear tho = \

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 02:11
#4
Fradow's picture
Fradow
Here is the wiki page you

Here is the wiki page you should read :
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Abilities

From 1 to 6, 1 is low, 6 is maximum. And yes, Maximum is twice as much as High.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 17:55
#5
Dyaus's picture
Dyaus
Can you cite tests to support

Can you cite tests to support that, Fradow?

I read that wiki article. I know that when you look at your aggregate damage bonuses, that is true. But I'm skeptical that is true for a Maximum! UV on armor.

I recently nabbed a Wolver coat with Maximum! Curse resist on it, will do some tests once my Faust is bumped up to a Gran Faust so that I can compare results to http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/10522#comment-142472

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 19:37
#6
Lupinn's picture
Lupinn
Woah, Curse Max?

I'd actually recommend selling the Wolver Coat, considering it has a Curse Max, plus Wolvers and Fausts are pretty popular, making that an even more valuable item.

I sold my Skelly Helm with a Max (Stun I think it was) Resist for 100k, but Im betting you can sell that Coat for at least 150k-200k.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 19:59
#7
Juances's picture
Juances
Why did no-one mention this?

"Are you sure? That would mean that a "Maximum!" UV on armor is worth twice as much as a "High" UV. (Which... seems silly.)"

Armors and weapons have different UV bonuses. Getting Maximun ASI or damage as an UV would be overkill for example (and make wolver line useless).

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 21:11
#8
Khamsin's picture
Khamsin
I'm very sure max on armor is

I'm very sure max on armor is only 4 stat points. Each stat point looks to be about a bar from what I've seen, and max gives 4.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 03:11
#9
Fradow's picture
Fradow
Sorry, i don't have a clue

Sorry, i don't have a clue for armor either. I suppose it's the same as weapons, but it's only supposition and i can't support it with any test (and i don't care either xD). Good luck in finding how it works, and please share if you find out.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 07:17
#10
Bluescreenofdeath's picture
Bluescreenofdeath
Yes I'm sure. Fradow is right

Yes I'm sure. Fradow is right in post #4.

If you roll UV ASI Very High on a sword, par it with a piece of Vog Cub (or an Elite Slash Module or BTS) then look at the "Character Window", down at the bottom there is a summery of the effects on your sword and it will read "Attack Speed Increased: Maximum!"

(sorry for run-on sentence)

Same scale for all gear:

1 Low
2 Med
3 High
4 Very High
5 Ultra
6 Maximum

Weapons just can't roll Maximum I guess for balance, but they can be brought to Maximum with the aid of gear (helm/armor/shield/trinkets).

Example from my gear:

Voltedge 5* L10 CTR Med, UV CTR Med
Elite Sword Focus Module 5*, CTR Med

My Voltedge reads as, "Charge Time Reduction: Maximum!" on the summery symbol at the bottom of my "Character Window". If I un-equip my Focus Module the summery drops down to CTR Very High.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:05
#11
Dyaus's picture
Dyaus
Im betting you can sell that

Im betting you can sell that Coat for at least 150k-200k.

I bought it for 300k. No plans to sell it. ;)

Yes I'm sure. Fradow is right in post #4.

Again, can you cite tests, BSOD?

I understand not being able to roll "Maximum!" on weapons for balance reasons. What then, would be the justification for not being able to roll "Very High" or "Ultra" on Armor? It doesn't make sense.

I couldn't find any conclusive tests done -- so I suppose I'll do my own in a few days when my Gran Faust is ready.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:16
#12
Juances's picture
Juances
"I understand not being able

"I understand not being able to roll "Maximum!" on weapons for balance reasons. What then, would be the justification for not being able to roll "Very High" or "Ultra" on Armor? It doesn't make sense."

Maybe it's just because they want to make our life easier, the more variations you add, the less chances you'd have to get a maximun.

Weapons have low, med, high, V high, thats 4 posible outcomes.
In order for armors to have the same probabilities they did this.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:55
#13
Bluescreenofdeath's picture
Bluescreenofdeath
Later when I'm at my computer

Later when I'm at my computer I can take a screen shot of weapon stats, then another screen shot of weapon stats after the gear is factored in if you just don't believe me.

I have a Freezing Atomizer 4* bomb that has UV CTR Very High. It is also level 10 so it has the natural CTR Med.

If I look at it in my Arsenal it is listed as:

Freezing Atomizer
complete Level 10
*UV orange* Charge Time Reduction: Very High
*in blue, the one you get for L10* Charge Time Reduction: Medium

If I equip it and look at it in the summary at the bottom of the "Character Window" it reads:

Freezing Atomizer
Charge Time Reduction: Maximum

And yes there is a significant charge time difference between Very High and Maximum. I felt this after I upgraded my Freezing Vaporizer MK II to Freezing Atomizer and had to suffer through the heating process to get back up to Maximum. I don't really understand your confusion, but I will take a screenshot if that is what it takes. I'm sure somebody else here can back me up that they have some weapon or another with DMG Bonus, ASI, or CTR Max on weapons after their gear is factored in.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:03
#14
Bluescreenofdeath's picture
Bluescreenofdeath
I can't explain why they set

I can't explain why they set up it the way they did. It is a bit silly that Armor jumps from 3 to 6. My best guess is lazy coding. They only wanted weapon UV to go up to Very High (4) and they were to lazy to write new code for 6 possibilities instead of 4. Pretty damn lazy, but take a look at this games models and how much recycling goes on... The hardest to achieve sword (not counting UV) is just a 2* sword with a neat fire effect.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 12:54
#15
Dyaus's picture
Dyaus
Later when I'm at my computer

Later when I'm at my computer I can take a screen shot of weapon stats, then another screen shot of weapon stats after the gear is factored in if you just don't believe me.

I'm not interested in weapon UVs, really. I'm confident that they work as advertised. I'm curious about "Maximum!" on Helm/Shield/Armor.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 13:27
#16
Bluescreenofdeath's picture
Bluescreenofdeath
Have you read this

Have you read this thread?:
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/10522#comment-161194

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 13:51
#17
Culture's picture
Culture
They are different

Armor UV "Max" is worth 4 points. It is only slightly more powerful than High, not twice as powerful. This is because Armor UVs do not have Very High or Ultra levels.

Also, Armor defenses don't have a hard cap like Weapons do. Skovler Coat with Max Freeze is better than just Skolver Coat, despite already being maxed out on freeze resistance. It is just that there are diminishing returns on the resistances.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 13:13
#18
Dyaus's picture
Dyaus
Have you read this

Have you read this thread?:
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/10522#comment-161194

I did read that thread. Tantarian cites "Very High" among his tests, which I assume is in reference to a "Maximum!" armor UV. But I'm not sure.

Armor UV "Max" is worth 4 points. It is only slightly more powerful than High, not twice as powerful. This is because Armor UVs do not have Very High or Ultra levels.

That's what I was suspecting. I'll do some tests soon nonetheless. Assuming that's true, "Maximum!" UVs on armor really ought to be renamed "Very High." They are confusing at best -- seems like an oversight/bug.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 13:58
#19
Khamsin's picture
Khamsin
"That's what I was

"That's what I was suspecting. I'll do some tests soon nonetheless. Assuming that's true, "Maximum!" UVs on armor really ought to be renamed "Very High." They are confusing at best -- seems like an oversight/bug."

Not really. It is the highest protection you could get from a UV hence maximum. It makes perfect sense to me.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 18:28
#20
Dyaus's picture
Dyaus
Not really. It is the highest

Not really. It is the highest protection you could get from a UV hence maximum. It makes perfect sense to me.

Yes, semantically speaking, the word "maximum" makes perfect sense. But "Maximum!" is used to represent a +6 bonus on Weapons (see http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Abilities), so it's misleading to have it only represent a +4 bonus on armor.

Thu, 11/03/2011 - 07:48
#21
Khamsin's picture
Khamsin
Very high just doesn't sound

Very high just doesn't sound complete enough. If you had VH UVs on armor, you still feel like you need something else to complete it, even though you really don't. Whereas with VH on weapons, it matches up perfectly to the fact it is very high but not the maximum bonus attainable for a stat.

Thu, 11/03/2011 - 20:52
#22
Culture's picture
Culture
Yeah...

It is true that a Maximum Status Resistance is the equivalent of a 5* status resistance and fills the bar. Thus it really is a maximum of the bar's visual representation and what we are accustomed to think of as max resistance. But Maximum Damage Defense isn't anywhere near maximum, it is similar to a 3* armor's resistance. So I think that is a bit misleading.

They probably did this in some sort of balance attempt. Status Resistance is only useful 1/6th of the time (ignoring no status and sleep). Whereas special damage defense is useful closer to 1/3rd of the time.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 14:45
#23
Eclecticmessiah's picture
Eclecticmessiah
Maximum is 4 points on armor.

Maximum is 4 points on armor. Compare the bars to see. Its easy.

Sat, 11/19/2011 - 00:54
#24
Dyaus's picture
Dyaus
Finally got around to

Finally got around to leveling my Faust up to a Gran Faust and ran some tests.. My self-inflicted curse with a Gran Faust was 33 seconds long, which when compared to Earnestevans' tests, would strongly support an Armor "Maximum!" UV being worth 4 points.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 13:12
#25
Gwenyvier's picture
Gwenyvier
If you look at the different

If you look at the different levels of status resist from UVs on armor it makes it fairly obvious that "Max" is the equivalent of a level 4, not a level 6.

Low gives .75 bars, Med 1.5 bars, High 2.25 bars. If "Max" was level 6 like many people think it would give 4.5 bars... its gives 3 bars, which logically from the previous levels would go to "Very High".

~Gwen

Sat, 02/11/2012 - 10:39
#26
Koeliejoelie's picture
Koeliejoelie
Stacking beyond visual representation?

I have a question about the visual representation of Damage Defense on an armor or helm. For instance take the volcanic plate mail. At lvl 1 its normal defense is already at a visual maximum. Does this imply that this no longer increases if you level it to 10. Logically i'd like to think it would, but i'd still like to know if it does. Especially if you roll a UV Normal Defense Maximum on it (which would be worthless if it doesn't stack beyond its visual representation).

Has anyone ever tested this, because i cant find a thread about this.

Sat, 02/11/2012 - 11:24
#27
Trying's picture
Trying
the necroing....

Your defense can go beyond the visual. There have been numerous threads about that already.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 06:00
#28
Koeliejoelie's picture
Koeliejoelie
Thank you very much

Thank you very much for this answer Trying.

After some searching i finnaly found the thread that gave all the answers about this topic. The following link directs you to the node that contains a lot of info about defense armors.

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/38367

Also
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/9213 (may be outdated)

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