I really don't know why. seriously, the gran faust sounds better for damage since it can cause the curse status on enemies (yes of course, there is a chance of cursing yourself), and curse status is lethal in enemies (especially when your enemy is the royal jelly/ice queen, on phase 2, just curse it and wait.), also, is it worth it? i already have a leviathan blade (just a reminder: i don't pay cash for CE), and i might consider the avenger for certain cases (especially since i have 12 - 14 jelly tokens, and i w2ill probaly buy it for audiction/selling it/maybe for lockdown), but explain to me, why is it so popular?
Why is the divine avenger so popular?
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 12:06
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 12:37
#2
Any "guides" for using it?
Well, the sealed sword would be the first time i would ever use a heavy sword.. they are betterfor secondary or primary weapons? (since i am a swordsman) are they more useful than the normal swords? is the DA better than the leviathan blade?
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 12:42
#3
common question
To deal with frequently asked questions such as these, I have written my own sword guide. Perhaps you would find the sections "Elemental Swords", "Shadow Swords", and "Divine Avenger vs. Gran Faust" useful.
Summary opinion: "DA is as good as any elemental sword, whereas GF is not quite as good as Acheron."
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 12:46
#4
DA vs. Leviathan
As Fradow suggests, and as I explain in my aforementioned sword guide, damage type is your primary consideration in choosing a sword. Divine Avenger does elemental (and normal), while Leviathan does normal. If you can work DA into a coherent non-normal weapon loadout (and you easily can), then it is generally preferable over a normal weapon such as Leviathan (despite Leviathan's awesome charge attack).
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 13:29
#5
so..
What loadout you reccomend? my "dream" loadout would be: polaris and the leviathan blade. But wich kind of loadout would you reccomend for using with the DA?
EDIT: no matter how, i'm keeping my leviathan blade (and still getting a DA) for myself, all i need is to keep a constant way to have weapon slot upgrades and trinket upgrades, so i can keep all three weapons (polaris, levi and DA)
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 13:55
#6
If you are planing on having
If you are planing on having two swords, there is not realy a good reason to keep the leviathan in the load out.
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:03
#7
yeah, but he's keeping it
Frostythepyro, you're right, but Zinco likes his Leviathan, so that's fine. And the charge really is awesome against knockback-resistant enemies.
Zinco, your proposed weapon loadout is a bit redundant: Leviathan (normal), DA (normal and elemental), and Polaris (elemental). It would be nice to get some shadow damage (for use against slimes, gremlins) and/or some piercing damage (for use against beasts, fiends). For what it's worth, many of us feel that the most overpowered weapons in the game are the piercing swords, particularly Final Flourish and Barbarous Thorn Blade. Give one a try against some fiends or beasts. When I did, it was a revelation.
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:23
#8
Yes, the heavy swords can be
Yes, the heavy swords can be used as primary weapons. You can use them to get out of sticky situations as a gunner/bomber (huge swing and knockback is definitely useful when cornered).
As always, +1 to what Bopp said : piercing swords are definitely worth giving a try. You won't know what you miss before you use one against fiends and wolvers. DA seems to me a lot less useful than a piercing sword, considering you have a Levi.
As for some tips for heavy swords, see this guide : http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/13083 The shield cancel is well known, but the delayed second hit is not, despite being the single most thing you should know when using a heavy sword. It can double the amount of damage you do while reducing drasticly the amount of hit you take, just by mastering this technique (and no, i am not exaggerating, all the guys i told of this technique said the same after mastering it).
It also works with 3 slash swords, but less useful and harder to pull off (or perhaps I didn't tried hard enough).
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:41
#9
Thanks
let me explain my loadout: the leviathan: is for having a balanced speed in attack and in defense, since the DA combo leaves me far too open, the leviathan is far more useful since i can shield cancel and alternate between combos and shielding easier with the levi (also its useful agnist gremilin healers since it has a very high gremilin damage UV).
DA: this one will take a lot of time to become a DA (since i am a "f2p" and i don't pay real money for CE :P), but when i get it it woill be for dealing large amounts of damage on large amounts of enemies, and finishing off groups. Its more a complement to my arsenal than a important piece of it. its really useful for lockdown when playing as a striker too.
polaris: is for taking down machines and enemies from a distance, especially when i am with low health.
barbarous thorn blade: another weapon for the shopping list then, the fast attack speed would be a nice complement to the slow style of the DA.
Overall: by having the leviathan blade and the polaris i already guarantee that i will be able to deal both elemental and normal damage without problems, the DA is really useful, but i am much more comfortable with the 3 hit combo than the two heavy hits, in the end i am a well rounded swordsman for any situation.
EDIT: i never used a raiper and a heavy sword.. i really need to give it a try.
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:53
#10
Don't take Levi then
If you are not keeping the Leviathan for the charge, you probably don't really need to keep it once you have specialized swords.
The "balanced speed in attack and in defense" confuse me a little : it's not very concrete to me. I use only heavy swords and piercing swords, and i don't feel the need for a middle ground like Levi or Brandish. There is only two reasons for me to use a Levi : first is for Vanaduke mask phase, second is when playing gunslinger or bomber, as an only sword.
The DA combo won't leave you open if you master both the shield cancel and the delayed 2nd swing and know when to use both. Of course, it's a big change from 3 hit swords, so you'll need some time to get used to it (or like some players, prefer to stay with 3 hit swords, so look into Brandish. Bopp can advocate better than me on this).
As for Polaris, it's great to begin, and I advise you to continue with it. As an experienced DA user tho, I don't use Polaris anymore. Slashing through is simply faster if you can manage to not get hit. Plus it's annoying for teamates. There is only 2 cases I miss a Polaris : puppies behing a spike floor, and the rocket room of FSC. There is often another Polaris user to take care of them tho.
As for barbarous thorn blade, I think it could, paired with DA, totally replace your Leviathan : for the gremlin you talked about, BTB, even without UV, is a better fit : it's huge thrust in 2nd and 3rd swings will let you literally go into a pack and push the mender the other way, with you at the other end of the sword, without getting hit too much.
In a few word, my opinion would be : drop the Levi, get BTB, DA and Polaris.
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:55
#11
For PvE my personal
For PvE my personal preferences are Acheron, Final Flourish, and Divine Avenger.
Acheron because, as mentioned earlier, it works better on Gremlins. It also doesn't leave me as vulnerable to the Slime's "root" attack. Both Gremlins and Slimes have the same habit of swarming as Constructs and Undead do... the difference is Gremlins can dodge, rather well actually. I find it hard to hit the annoying Bomber and Menders with a Gran Faust, they dodge faster then the blade swings. Also, in T3 the Thwackers have shields on their back. The GF swing is big enough if a few Thwackers are in front of you and one is turned away from you you'll smack its shield along with the Gremlin you wanted... and if it WASN'T aggro'd towards you before, it sure as hell is now. Oh, and Acheron has a charge that isn't going to nip me in the butt.
FF I had long before the BTB became available, and I prefer its charge over BTB. It is honestly up to personal preference on those as the swords are exactly the same aside from the charge. They both work fantastic and you'll actually find they kill Gremlins and Undead almost as fast as Brandish/Sealed Sword line weapons. One thing about Flourish type swords is that if you have auto-target turned off (which you should) the auto-target BUTTON is very much your friend. There is nothing like being just slightly off with your aim and watching yourself zip just to the side of the enemy you meant to hit
DA I prefer over Brandish lines due to the knockback and the charge is amazing. If you have a decent damage boost, such as Skolver set, a well aimed charge can ONE SHOT a Lumber, all the way up to a party of 3 (for 3 people you need max damage bonus, BTS anyone?). FYI, again, the auto-target button helps greatly in effectively headshotting Lumbers with the charge. As I mentioned earlier things weak to Elemental tend to swarm, they also don't dodge. Meaning you can take out entire clusters at once if you know what you're doing, just with the regular swings.
As Fradow said you can delay the 2nd strike of the heavy swords (which is incredibly useful with the DA, and not nearly as much with the GF). Pretty much until halfway into the animation moving it back to the "carrying" position. That is one of the biggest things to learn on a heavy sword. With correct timing you can hit once, let the monster (often a Zombie, don't try it with Retrodes, they're reach is longer) do its counter attack swing, and then do your 2nd swing if you get the timing down. And I bookmarked his link to check out later.
~Gwen
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 15:12
#12
the problem is:
i don't buy CE. the only way i would have to maintain a third weapon slot is trading tf2 metal for CE, and i find the leviathan blade's charge REALLY useful, especially when soloing (i managed to kill alone a giant lichen colony only with the charge attack, and using the basic calibur), well, replacing the polaris sounds like a good idea for me since i'm going to use a vog cub/skolver mixed set, having a gun wouldn't be THAT useful, and i'm not in a hurry to get a polaris (especially that i have more jelly tokens than bark modules), and the vog cub's bonus attack speed sounds useful for a heavy sword. But i won't replace my leviathan, for a simple reason: token and money, getting tokens means time, getting money means MORE time, and getting the RECIPES, THE MONEY, THE TOKENS AND THE ENERGY to upgrade it would be only another weight in my pocket, (my upgrade list: from dusker to ash tail, coat and cap, getting an owlite shield AND upgrading it, plus the sealed sword.) because of that, the leviathan is much cheaper (in cost, duh.) than a BTB, also, i always dreamed of having a leviathan blade, and i traded a bunch of tf2 items to get one (two keys, a non-genuine cold war luchador, an esquisite rack, a refined, a strange rocket launcher and a strange wrench, to be exact, also, i spent two hats to make the cold-war luchador, and all the hats i trade are craftable.).
TL;DR: i'm getting a DA instead of a polaris, but i'm not dropping my levi.
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 15:16
#13
A noob giving his 1 cent
after playing around with the swift strike for a little to long, I now find heavy swords way too slow
(hell, even 3 strike swords seem slow now)
so my take would be to stick with 3 strike swords until you have the money to buy a sealed sword with asi high
(so as not to be frustrated by the slow swing)
btw, it's not that i don't know how to use heavy swords (delayed 2nd strike works wonders), it's just i fall asleep waiting to finish a single swing even with shield cancel .....
DANG YOU SWIFT STRIKE FOR NOT HAVING A 5* BROTHER!
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 15:30
#14
Well...
I'm getting a normal sealed blade, because, since i depend on my mist energy, it would take a loooong time to buy one with high, hell, even one with low ASI would take time to buy it, thats also why i won't get the BTB. Switching the polaris by the DA, i would have the same amount of equipment to upgrade than before, by switching the levi by the BTB it would take even more time to get to T3 (yes, i am in T2) than before, but with luck i might get a sealed sword with at least low or medium asi.
TL;DR: switching the levi by the BTB = much more time getting money and energy. Getting a high asi sealed sword = EVEN MORE TIME.
EDIT: the vog cub set gives a medium ASI (each piece) when at level 5 or higher of heat.
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 15:34
#15
A matter of style
You need to decide for yourself whether you prefer the slower pace of heavy sword lines or the faster pace of the Brandish lines. Personally, I prefer the security of the long reach and knockback of heavy swords, even if their one-on-one damage is a little bit lower. If you go with heavy swords, ASI is very important, as it boosts your swing recovery speed.
However, regardless of which style you decide on, both require good skills. Heavy swords will get you killed if you recklessly use up the second swing, and 3-swing swords require careful mousing to stay on target and not overextend yourself (they also have a recovery after the final combo).
Just as a side note, although the Fang of Vog acts like a 3-swing sword, it is noticeably slower than the Brandish/Calibur line.
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 15:40
#16
agreed
Zinco, you're saying quite reasonable things, but do keep in mind that you're not the only person here playing for free. Damage-type-aware weapon loadouts are not just for rich people; they're for everybody. But since you already have Leviathan, I agree that you should stick with it. You can play pretty much all of this game using a Leviathan with a Polaris, especially if you develop good skill. They're good weapons.
Certainly you should not be buying any items over 3-star, because they cost so much (unless you have unwanted TF2 stuff, I guess ;). For non-boss items, the most efficient way to get to 5-star is usually to buy 3-star and then upgrade twice yourself. For boss items, the most efficient way to get to 5-star is usually to get the boss item yourself and then upgrade from there. Basically, avoid indirectly paying unbinding fees.
People like to argue over slow vs. medium vs. fast swords. Other people say that you should just use whichever you prefer. I have yet another take. I believe that any player can get comfortable with any sword feel. So you should try out a variety of feels, and give each a fair chance, and learn how to use it. I'm not especially good at games, and even I have no problem switching quickly among totally different feels, such as Divine Avenger, Acheron, and Barbarous Thorn Blade.
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 16:53
#17
I still want some help, but i have a half-formed opinion.
I will get the DA and the polaris, i will switch between the polaris and the DA, so i won't have to "maintain" a third weapon slot. I WILL keep the levi. But my main weapon-related objective now is the polaris. I can get the sealed sword a little later later. Also, i might get the BTB later, but not now obviously, since i'm really low on crowns :P
EDIT: i watched some videos of the DA in action, well, i must admit, i feel much more comfortable now. The combos felt way too slow for my taste, but they look normal to me now. I will keep my levi, but i will get a DA for sure now! Also, i discovered a techinque to time a "shield cancel" right after the levi's charge: its basically time the shield button with the end of the animation.
EDIT PART TWO: Both the DA and the BTB are long-term plans for me, i'll get the polaris, sitck with my levi, and get a skolver cap and a vog cub coat, as for a shield, i'll take the volcanic plate shield (more for the amount of hits it can take.)
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 17:11
#18
Listen, TC.
I'm also F2P, and I can manage four weapon slots just fine. It's not hard, even with the CE prices right now. Half of the things your saying about "it takes too much time and money, so I'll stick with my Levi cause I'm poor" just makes me think you're lazy.
When I only have two slots active, I'll be using my Blizzbrand and Final Flourish. The Flourish wrecks what I find the most annoying monsters in the game(Wolvers, Fiends), and my Blizzbrand is used for when I want to crowd control or get some easy damage in.
I understand completely; you worked really hard for that Levi. But to be honest, as a full Swordsman or when you're more of a Swordsman than Gunner(I think this is your case) that Levi underperforms compared to a Brandish upgrade, DA, or other Type-Specific Weapon. It's more of a sidearm for people who are a Gunner or Bomber. So I recommend you work for a DA/Brandish Upgrade/GF and a Flourish for the best damage you can get. Even with two slots, you'll do much better with Type-Specific Weapons than a Levi.
If you're still worried about heavy swords, I'd recommend doing Glacius/Voltedge/Combuster since those have the same swings as a Levi only a bit slower.
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 17:58
#19
Brandishes? nah.
Personally, i think the brandish upgrades are good, but not my style. I'll just stick with my Levi/polaris/DA plan for now.
also, i always prefered the levi than the brandish, specially because of the cost. Yes, i am "lazy". But seriously, I'm not interested in spenting a bunch of money in a lot of brandishes, the only one that would be useful would be the archeron (shadow brandish).
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 17:28
#20
dLevi/polaris/DA plan? 2
dLevi/polaris/DA plan? 2 elemental but not a single piecing or shadow thing?
Saving money vs not being strong against 2/3 of the enemies with overkill against 1/3 of them.
An alternative is just upgrade multiple 4*, and make 5 star weapons later since the change in damage isn't that much (20 points difference on T3 or not noticeable at all on T2).
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 18:04
#21
My plan:
Stickying for now with the levi/polaris set, for later buying a DA/BTB (or a final flourish) set, switching the secondary weapon when necessary, DONE. two well balanced loadouts.
Fri, 12/09/2011 - 01:44
#22
Divine Avenger
Well if you ask me Divine Avenger is part of the 4 parts of a chart of the different sword types.
===============================================================================================
~Magic Class: Divine Avenger
- Have good charge ups
- sometimes slow with strong power,sometimes fast with weak
===============================================================================================
~Tank Class: Sudaruska
-Strong Power very slow
- Good charge up depending on the sword
===============================================================================================
~All-Around: Leviathan
-Good...well everything
-Good charge up depending on the sword
===============================================================================================
~Speed Class: Wild Hunting Blad
-Weak damage strong speed
-Good charge-ups (most of the time.)
===============================================================================================
~Divine avenger is also used for elemental attacks and if you are using its chain of swords i has a history of lvl 2 damage and with the sealed sword
your charge-up does a random elemental for variety and the sword itself all-around has a good knock back.
Fri, 12/09/2011 - 03:22
#23
Weird classification
- I don't see Sudaruska can be considered "tank". It's just a slow underpowered sword that currently fit no purpose (currently, even on resistant monsters, DA/GF do more dps). And the charge is terrible : hard to aim, weak damage (comparing to DA/GF)
- Wild Hunting Blade shouldn't be recommended either. It's outclassed by Dread Venom Striker (the only reason to go for it is the look). The charge will let you very exposed. And it's close to unusable in T3 unless you are a pro with it. Oh, and for fast sword, you may want to look at Piercing swords.
And again : there is nothing "random elemental" in the charge of any sword. Split damage weapon have a part of each damage, tho the actual damage is not always 50/50 for normal/other damage types.
Fri, 12/09/2011 - 06:37
#24
think he was referring to Sealed's effect
I think that the "random elemental" was referring to Sealed Sword's charge attack's randomized status effect. But yeah, this is a pretty bizarre classification of a pretty weird sector of the sword market (normal swords with DA thrown in to remain on-topic).
Fri, 12/09/2011 - 08:08
#25
I made a plan
Its basically this:
First i would focus on upgrading my shield (i'm using a plate shield), then, focus on getting enough tokens for the pulsar, after that, i would go after the snarble barb, and only then the sealed sword, also i would buy a silent nightblade with the money of the runs.
After this, i would focus on upgrading my arsenal (armor, shield and gun) to reach T3, after i hit T3, i would get much more money, so it would be easier to upgrade the sealed sword, the snarble barb and the silent nightblade, all of that combined with the sale of tf2 metal for CE.
In the end i would have: 1 piercing/fast sword, 1 normal/3-hit-word, 1 elemental/heavy sword, 1 shadow-weapon and 1 gun.
Fri, 12/09/2011 - 08:16
#26
sounds great
Sounds great. You don't need any more help from us now. And feel free to put off that Nightblade for a while; Acheron is awesome, but you don't need a shadow sword immediately, if you have a piercing sword for gremlins and another sword for slimes.
By the way, you'll find that Stratum 5 (the first half of Tier 3) doesn't offer much more money than Stratum 3, and probably less than Stratum 4. Stratum 6 is more lucrative --- especially Firestorm Citadel. If I recall correctly, depths 24-27 of FSC net you about 8000 crowns, not including materials.
Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:04
#27
forget this.
I had a better idea: snarbolax coat + quick strike module and a charge time reduced module. (weirdly, it took a lot of time to realize that is snarbolax instead of snarborlax).
Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:12
#28
armor
Well, Snarbolax can only be crafted in the Shadow Lairs, and to pass through there you basically need 5-star armor already. Of course, you could buy Snarbolax armor from someone, but only for an insane price. In short, Snarbolax is not a practical choice for your first 5-star armor.
I recommend that you get two pieces of Ash Tail, and then upgrade one piece to Vog Cub, and then upgrade the other to Skolver. The result is a nice mixed armor set, with normal, elemental, piercing, fire, and freeze protection. You're really missing only shadow and shock protection.
Once you get a decent mixed armor setup, then you can build additional pieces to craft better specialized armor setups. For example, get the other Vog Cub piece for FSC. Combine one piece of Skolver with something like Radiant Silvermail, Fallen, Valkyrie, or Dread Skelly for Shadow Gloaming Wildwoods. And so on.
Most of this is covered in my Sword Guide that I mentioned above. Of course, others may have different opinions.
Fri, 12/09/2011 - 12:44
#29
Snarborlax coat seems better for a later plan.
For now i think the vog/skolver seems the best choice, especially if i manage to get shadow, poison and shock UVs in the set, or at least one of them.
Ok, so here are the reason :
- Gran Faust is shadow, Divine Avenger is elemental. The end-game boss strata (FSC) features mostly undeads, weak to elemental and resistant to shadow
- Divine Avenger charge, will not cursing, do not curse you, and fire 3 projectiles, not one. It's arguably better, and is certainly better for crowd control
- Gremlins are arguably not that good done with a Gran Faust. On contrary, both Undeads and Constructs are good to do with Divine Avenger
And yes it's definitely worth it as an elemental sword.