Spiral Knights - I want a Katana...

I want a Katana...

32 replies [Last post]

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 04:31

Round-Shinigami

Just figured out it would be nice to have... Katanas!
Basically, curved sword that acts the same way as Levi does. But it should be craft-able so I could get a CTR VH UV on it without rolling 20+k ce (I rolled 12k ce in a row once, didn't get asi or ctr VH, so I don't want to repeat that experiment).

Don't get me wrong, Scissor blades are nice and all but they're too... cartoonish? childish? Same problem with Levi. I want a more serious-looking weapon :)
But then again, whole Spiral Knights isn't about serious-looking weapons...

To be clear: I want a Levi sword with a different look.
Scissor blade is an entirely different weapon, so I can't simply change my levi to look like giant scissors while transferring my UVs into the new weapon. I like its long, thin blade though.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 05:43

Heatsurge

It's called "acheron" -_- A

It's called "acheron" -_-

A sword with a shadow spin attack would also be too op probably....

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 06:34

Round-Shinigami

Heatsurge Acheron is nice

Heatsurge
Acheron is nice but:
a) I don't like brandish line of swords, sealed sword is superior in many ways, mostly kickback. I sold both Acheron and Combuster.
b) it doesn't act the way I want it to, and it doesn't look the way I want it to. Straight swords aren't bad but SEGA certainly knows a thing or two about curved ones. They're simply Beautiful.

Just make a hike to the closest museum that has a katana shown. They look much, much better live than on pictures. Seeing one just makes you want to hold it.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 07:44

Juances

"Basically, curved sword that

"Basically, curved sword that acts the same way as Levi does"
"I don't like brandish line of swords, sealed sword is superior in many ways"

There's something wrong there.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 08:07

Gospel

not really a curved sword...

but this is how i envisioned a katana in spiral knights...
http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i452/netmafiagospel/katana2.jpg

maybe longer would be better, but id love a hiltless blade....

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 08:29

Round-Shinigami

Juances Brandish line of

Juances
Brandish line of swords: 3-swingers with special damage (elemental or shadow). Charged attack does 1 powerful swing and releases small weak explosions.
Compared to Levi: levi's charged attack is superior, having 360-degree damage, several hits, kickback. Levi lacks special damage, though.
Compared to Sealed Sword (DA/GF): same special damage, slower, has superior (FAR superior) charged attack. DA has a good kickback on charged attack, GF can curse enemies on swing.
Compared to FOV: FOV's charge is superior, but puts you at risk, FOV's swing can set enemies on fire, unlike brandish swords.
Compared to each other: combuster, glacius, shock sword can apply special effects on charge, acheron is simply shadow explosions, no special effect. Basically, brandish line of swords are the weakest swords compared to both Calibur line and Sealed Sword line. And Acheron is the weakest of Brandish swords.

It may look interesting to some extent, but Acheron is not something I would like to swing. So I sold mine. Same as Combuster.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 12:27

Frostythepyro

round you are so wrong its

round you are so wrong its almsot painfull. Against the majority of targets the levi charge is going to hit once and throw them out of range, doing realy pitiful damage against anything that is not a turret/frozen/trojan, Brandish lines single hit +1 explosion is doing as much if not more than 2 hits from levi charge (which again not super common) and if they ride all 3 explosions it will do comprable to all 3 hits of a levi charge, and against most targets you get them to ride the explosions more often than you get all 3 hits of a levi. In adition, without even considering special damage type, brandish lines deal more damage than levi.

if you want to hurt things, brandish line is the way to go, brandish line swords deal more DPS than anything else in the game (except maybe flourish/barb line, i would need to double check).

And then of course there is the fact that it is much more dificult to controll the knockback of a levi charge, which is why it is likely the number one most common cause of team killing, though that only applies if you are not going solo. The levi has a place, but that place is for the gunslinger and the bomber, not the swordsman.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 12:53

Juances

A new "shadow Levi" will have

A new "shadow Levi" will have a hard time to balance in between. If it does work well, then the Acheron will indeed be useless.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 13:13

Nacho

You said that you wanted a

You said that you wanted a curved sword that worked like leviathan, but you are saying that sealed swords are way better. Man you should make your posts clearer. The reason why many people be talking about the Acheron is because leviathan has a 3 swing combo. You should have said that you wanted a curved sword with a 360 spin attack. Yeah i think that would be cool but i cant quite understand what would make this sword different from a Leviathan, you just said that the difference would be just the look.

Now if you want a shadow sword with spin attack that would take out the acheron of the competition y know what im sayin. Say what type of damage it does, if it inflicts a status, what downs does it have. Till then nobody will know what the heck you be talkin about.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 17:28

Round-Shinigami

Nacho I said I want a

Nacho
I said I want a beautiful work of art to replace my dull huge plain Levi with. But I would love to keep my UV :)
Sealed swords are best for certain situations, same as piercing sword works best in shadow snarbolax lair. Levi is for the rest of game.

Instead of having dozens of weapons that look like levi and cost ridiculous amounts of money to make, why not add an ability to change looks of certain weapons? Like, re-forging levi to look like a long, thin, curved blade, keeping my UVs.

Hope it clears up any possible misunderstandings :)

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 17:42

#10

Nacho

Well now i understand what

Well now i understand what you want. I dont think that would be possible, keeping your uv. The closest thing that i can think of is another featured item on the AH, a leviatan katana or something like that.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 17:45

#11

Dark-Flare

So now that we all understand what this thread is about...

A very controversial topic: Weapon costumes.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 17:50

#12

Round-Shinigami

You can keep your UV when you

You can keep your UV when you upgrade a weapon, why not keep UV when you're just upgrading its looks?
If its another weapon in featured section of auction, I'll just skip it. I have enough weapons at the moment.

Dark-Flare
It doesn't have to be a costume, it can be actual weapon. Except I'll skip it altogether if its a 1.5-3 million Levi without my UVs :)

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 18:22

#13

Psychodestroyer

@Dark-Flare

Did you say....weapon...costumes!?

>:(

I MAD BRO.

IMPROSSIBRU.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 03:45

#14

Round-Shinigami

Definitely not costumes. You

Definitely not costumes. You can put on and take off costumes at any time. I'm talking about permanent or semi-permanent change. For example... weapon accessory! :D or it looks like accessory in inventory, but changes the looks of a weapon dramatically.
Same policy can be applied to shields. Make them look completely different, only 1 "accessory" can be used per weapon. Should work same way current accessories work ("detachable" but it destroys "accessory"). Or same way color change works (one way permanent change).

I'm back to Ascended calibur due to UV upgrade (it cost me dearly), and I like how Ascended looks more than Levi, to be honest. But I can't keep better looks and higher damage, so I'll have to go back to plain sword, sadly.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 07:04

#15

Kupoo

Katanas do not work that way

Personally, if there ever are katana swords, I'd be rather disappointed if they had a Calibur-styled charge. I mean, okay, so you've got a katana. It's a long, elegant blade, capable of slicing through enemies in your path with graceful, flowing slashes. You proceed to clumsily fling it around in a circle the same way you would if you were wielding a giant fish. What??

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 12:00

#16

Round-Shinigami

Kupoo But you're ok with

Kupoo
But you're ok with swinging around giant scissors?

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 13:00

#17

Softhead

I am.

Katana's don't work with Levi. Elegant slashes would be better in 4 slashes with a single dash slash that does 4 slashes when an enemy gets hit by the dash slash. Would fit better.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 13:17

#18

Nacho

I guess that a Atrumvindex´s

I guess that a Atrumvindex´s version of the katana attack would make much more sense. A katana works way to different from a normal sword.

But i think that before katanas we will be having cows first. A lot of people have been suggesting em and even i made my own post about it. http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/36355

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 14:28

#19

Dark-Flare

When did the cow thing start...?!?!?!

A four hit combo would be interesting, since there is none currently. Maybe for weapon accessories, they could take a trinket slot, but appear on your weapon...

@Psychodestroyer
BRO. http://alltheragefaces.com/img/faces/large/okay-okay-l.png

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 15:06

#20

Softhead

Elaboration!

Note:
All 5* have wider arcs, and status can affect players.

Katana 3* A sword used by a group called Samurai warriors.

Folded Katana 4*

Wind of Zanzestu 5*

Fire: Smouldering Katana 4*

Shadow Inferno 5*

Ice: Frosty Katana 4*

Nitrogen Blizzard 5*

Shock: Plasma Katana 4*

Blitzkreig 5*
Blitzkreig has yellow shock effects instead of blue.

Poison: Virus Katana 4*

Baterium Blade 5*

Stun: Broadkatana 4*
Slower speed for stun and more dmg

Blackout 5*

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 16:52

#21

Round-Shinigami

I'm afraid anything that

I'm afraid anything that works significantly different than levi will be a very niche weapon (rarely used). You can see many FoVs, Levis and DAs (as I said earlier) but not many of anything else. That is because only levi and FoV can hit 3 times on a boss/trojan or push away all enemies around you.
Brandish type of weapon is a good thing for one-on-one fights, which don't happen often in clockworks. It is useful in T2 arenas where you can fight monsters separately (run away - strike - run away), but its totally useless in, say, Firestorm Citadel, where a crowd of zombies just pushes you into a corner, leaving you only one option - to be eaten.

No kickback = bad weapon. No matter how elegant, if it gets you killed, nobody's going to use that. Kickback is really important for a very simple reason: in Spiral Knights you can't take even 3 hits without losing most of your health. If you only lost 3-5% each time, faster weapons would be more popular (probably) as they'd give you illusion of faster kills. Currently weapons that do lots of damage and push enemies away are more popular. Simply because they're able to interrupt enemies and save your life time after time after time.

So I'll ask again: why can't a good weapon also look good?

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 17:51

#22

Softhead

Hey!

Kick/knockback can be a team killer! Some knock back is added but in comparison to CIV. Fast, some knock back and a four hit combo and four hit charge that affects an area of people works to.

BTW: Brandish is used ALOT as a recomended wep. In your oppinion you don't prefer it, others yes. To me, my Temp Cali sucks with charge unless a target is stationany. Barely get more than one hit than 3. The only reason I have it is of Bombing and going to CIV.

On your last post. You said anything that works differently from Levi will rarely be used. But Sealed Sword lines are prefered more than Levi for specilased. You contradicted yourself. Also, Archeron is the best shadow sword prefered(GF has self curse) and it's a Brandish.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 18:59

#23

Round-Shinigami

Atrumvindex To be

Atrumvindex
To be super-precise:
Out of all "normal" swords Leviathan Blade (calibur line) is most popular, IMO. Less popular sword lines: Troika, Cutter, Spur. First is simply SLOW, second is fast but gets you killed easily, third has no 5-star variant and has low damage compared to levi (calibur).
Out of all "elemental" swords Divine Avenger (sealed sword line) is most popular, IMO. Brandish variants are less popular, at least among people who do regular FSC runs (other parts of clockworks are too simple or not profitable).
Out of all "piercing" swords BTB (barbarous thorn blade, "snarble" line) seems to be more popular, though I use flourish, seen a few rigadoons.
Out of all "shadow" swords... can't tell, really. I use levi, others use a wide variety of weapons, no specific preference noticed.

As for "team killer" - who forces you to blindly go and throw a charged attack at every opponent without thinking? I don't kill my mates with my charged attacks and I almost always do 2-3 hits with my Levi. Maybe you're just doing it wrong? Also, ever tried going solo? Less lags, less health on monsters, you keep anything that drops and nobody throws a charging Lumber your way. Awesome!

With my last post I meant that a "normal" damage sword that works differently than Levi might not get much attention. I did not mean Levi is used more than DA.

"Archeron is the best shadow sword prefered"
By who? Who made the poll, where are the results? Or you checked game data on server?

I'll repeat the basic idea: I want a craftable weapon that works exactly the same way leviathan (calibur) does, but has a more elegant look. That is all.
I wouldn't mind if it worked differently, as long as it wouldn't be another autogun (stand still while attacking, unable to shield, move) or cutter (walks you into every trap possible, charged attack leaves you standing still for a while, half of swings don't hit and as a result - low damage). As long as its charged attack's damage is comparable to Levi's triple hit charged attack, otherwise it will be just another winmillion/sudaruska (interesting weapon nobody seems to use).

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 19:15

#24

Softhead

@op

The Archeron is on the Swordmaster guide on the Wiki. Here is an statement.
Unlike the other 5* Brandishes, Acheron inflicts Normal/Shadow damage and lacks a status effect. Otherwise, its attack patterns are identical. The Acheron is a popular choice to use against the Royal Jelly as its speed will allow great damage and quick shielding. Unfortunately, it lacks the Curse status so Gran Faust can still be more useful than Acheron in the battle despite being riskier to use.

Another from poster number 7 on a Archeron v GF
Sticking with your Acheron and getting a DA is a good plan. Then you can get either FF or BTB, and you've got all the swords you'll ever need.

For completeness, I must emphasize that Acheron and GF are not the same when it comes to damage. Here are data on regular attacks:

•Acheron: 966 damage per combo, at about 35 combos per minute, produces 563 damage per second.
•Gran Faust: 773 damage per combo, at about 32 combos per minute, produces 412 damage per second.
(The damage per combo comes from the wiki, for Stratum 6 slimes/gremlins. Disclaimer: I measured the combos per minute, but not repeatedly, so they're approximate. They were both measured with ASI medium. Also, they're actually for Glacius and DA, not Acheron and GF, but those numbers should be about the same?) So even if these numbers are somewhat off, Acheron does significantly more damage. Of course, Gran Faust's swing is broader, so you can sometimes hit multiple enemies, doing a lot of damage; but timing this is delicate enough that it's not really a route to high DPS.

In charge, Acheron does 613 + 166, while GF does 682 + 190. Both projectiles have the ability to hit multiple times, I think. So GF's charge does a bit more damage. Of course, it also curses sometimes; then again, it curses sometimes. ;)
.

From same person
Against gremlins I see no contest. Stratum 6 gremlins are fast, and the speed of Acheron really helps. If there's room to maneuver, then you can charge Acheron over and over again without worry. In an arena, where a gremlin mender is semi-protected by a crowd of other monsters, an Acheron charge takes it out nicely. So does a GF charge, but always with the worry of curse.

Against slimes, GF is arguably a bit better. Its long reach, wide sweep, and large knockback mean that you can smash whole crowds of slimes, doing huge damage. Of course, you have to be careful not to get hit between the first and second strokes of the combo. Although GF is arguably better, Acheron is good enough. And slimes are simply not as difficult as gremlins, so I'd rather optimize for gremlins.

In my opinion, GF's ability to curse is more cool than useful. It can help with large monsters such as the Royal Jelly and lichen colonies. But small monsters simply die from regular old sword damage, before the curse even has a chance to kill them

Different
I'm not a sealed sword fan. I'm not a fan of the GF/DA. It's slow. I will say DA is waaay more useful than GF in T3 and maybe worth getting for FSC but as for jelly? Acheron. Most definitely. It's fast. You get more swings in coupled with high damage, and not chance of damage to you or a team mate. There is a lower chance of interrupted attacks. I hate when I'm mid swing with my avenger and I get attacked. On top of all that, throwing up a shield right after using a seal sword is much slower than the other weapons I have used.

Gran faust a VERY frustrating weapon. Yeah, you level it out completely you get a speed increase, then if you get lucky and roll a CTR and speed in increase or whatever... MAYBE it will be useful. But by far go acheron. You'll be less frustrated later on. Then if you get curious and want to try out a gran faust by all means go ahead but I would go with the acheron in the beginning.
.

Acheron stats:
Stratum 1 Stratum 2 Stratum 3 Stratum 4 Stratum 5 Stratum 6
Versus Slimes and Gremlins
Hit 1 and 2 44 - 48 56 - 62 115 - 116 123 - 129 197 - 251 270 - 292
Hit 3 52 - 63 69 - 82 141 - 150 156 - 162 254 - 325 356 - 382
Charge 77 - 92 108 - 121 210 - 230 242 - 259 394 - 497 547 - 613
Explosion 20 - 23 27 - 29 60 - 58 61 - 64 103 - 122 148 - 166
Versus Beasts and Constructs
Hit 1 and 2 39 - 39 45 - 49 95 - 90 94 - 97 150 - 189 198 - 203
Hit 3 47 - 54 58 - 67 121 - 124 125 - 124 209 - 268 291 - 292
Charge 72 - 84 96 - 106 195 - 204 211 - 221 349 - 440 481 - 531
Explosion 16 - 20 24 - 26 48 - 47 50 - 53 78 - 96 106 - 117
Versus Fiend and Undead
Hit 1 and 2 23 - 24 28 - 32 59 - 58 60 - 63 96 - 121 128 -135
Hit 3 28 - 33 36 - 42 74 - 76 78 - 79 129 - 165 180 - 185
Charge 42 - 49 57 - 64 115 - 122 127 - 134 209 - 264 290 - 322
Explosion 10 - 13 15 - 17 31 33 - 36 52 - 65 72 - 81

GF
Stratum 1 Stratum 2 Stratum 3 Stratum 4 Stratum 5 Stratum 6
Versus Fiend and Undead
Hit 1 26 - 27 33 - 36 66 - 68 67 - 70 115 - 144 152 - 153
Hit 2 31 - 37 43 - 45 85 - 88 90 - 93 151 - 190 208 - 225
Charge 46 - 56 63 - 73 129 - 137 141 - 153 232 - 297 327 - 362
Projectile 13 - 15 17 - 19 32 - 35 36 - 39 58 - 74 91 - 90
Versus Beasts and Constructs
Hit 1 43 - 45 53 - 57 108 - 109 106 - 108 184 - 231 241 - 234
Hit 2 52 - 61 71 - 74 141 - 144 146 - 149 247 - 311 338 - 363
Charge 79 - 96 107 - 123 219 - 230 236 - 253 389 - 497 545 - 600
Projectile 20 - 23 26 - 28 49 - 53 55 - 58 87 - 106 119 - 131
Versus Slimes and Gremlins
Hit 1 48 - 53 65 - 72 128 - 135 137 - 144 229 - 288 311 - 328
Hit 2 57 - 69 83 - 89 161 - 170 177 - 187 292 - 368 404 - 445
Charge 84 - 104 119 - 138 239 - 257 267 - 291 434 - 554 611 - 682
Projectile 25 - 28 30 - 33 62 - 68 68 - 72 116 - 147 168 - 190

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 19:35

#25

Slayzz

@Round-Shinigami 12k CE?

@Round-Shinigami 12k CE? Ouch!
Acheron looks like the katana to me. (maybe a bit more range and speed could make it fit your description). Also, I think it would be cool if the charge would send an arc of something out to hit enemies, instead of a Levi spin.

Sat, 12/17/2011 - 06:04

#26

Round-Shinigami

Slayzz I'm totally against

Slayzz
I'm totally against charges and spins instead of a 360-degree 3x swing. Anything that doesn't hit enemies behind you is nearly useless in actual fight, they won't stand in line to hit you.

Atrumvindex
Damage per minute is applicable in other games, where you compare 32 hits vs 29 hits to kill an enemy. In Spiral Knights damage per minute is a USELESS parameter. If you just stand and swing, you'll be hit and your attacks will get interrupted, and in some 3 seconds you'll be dead on the ground. The best way to fight in SK is hit and run, so its not hits per second that matters, its amount of damage per swing.
Stratum 1: anything dies in 1 swing from any of my swords. Does it matter if I do 10% more damage? No.
Stratum 6 (final): while soloing with DA I kill zombies with one charged attack. Does 10% damage difference matter? Not one bit. In a party of 4 I defeat gun puppies with 4 swings (2 combos), second swing interrupts gun puppy. Can any of brandish swords do the same? No idea, I sold my combuster a while ago, sold acheron long before that.

As for royal jelly: in theory, Acheron is better than GF when fighting royal jelly, but in reality:
Acheron charge: 259 + 64x2 (average amount of explosions) = 387 damage per charge
Gran Faust charge: 291 + 72x3 (its nearly impossible to miss royal jelly with charged attack's projectile) = 507 damage per charge
Levi charge: 180 x3 = 540
Attack speed doesn't really matter as you won't be standing still taking hits waiting for next charge to be ready. Curse and self-curse are ignored for the sake of simplicity.

As for gremlins - I just use Levi Charge to kill them in one attack. Works in most of cases, throws them flying otherwise (and mates can finish them off while gremlins try to get up). As for jelly - thanks to kickback you can swing once and run away, avoiding getting hit when using a GF. You can't do that with Acheron, unless you rely on charged attacks, which are slower than GF's first swing. I use Levi vs jellys, they're slow and easy to push into a corner to finish them off with a charged attack.

Levi charge does the most damage out of the 3 swords. Yes, "normal" sword does more damage than Acheron or Gran Faust vs monster vulnerable to shadow damage. All thanks to the multi-hit charged attack. Its very possible to hit 2-3 times on each and every charge if you know how to swing it. Also, "CTR" UV helps a lot. There's one CTR High calibur on Auction, go grab it now!

"Gran faust a VERY frustrating weapon."
I read somewhere learning to drive manual "stick" transmission was the most horrible experience someone had as a teenager. Learning to drive a car with a "stick" took me like 30 minutes and I never cared again. It depends on how you do it.
I use DA with ASI VH + CTR MAX bonus and I'm totally happy with it. Its fast, it charges in 2 seconds and sends everything flying. I use same Levi (ASI VH, CTR MAX) and I am totally happy with it. But not with its looks. Leviathan blade, compared to "earlier" versions, is simply ugly.

PS: Levi + DA cost me around 40k ce. Do I regret spending so much on 2 weapons? Not one bit. What else could I get with this money? A scissor blade with a ton of UV re-rolls at best. Or a few accessories that don't help me fight.

Sat, 12/17/2011 - 06:30

#27

Softhead

So, you in general want a

So, you in general want a blade that wouldn't fit with the Levi (Katanas v Broadswords) with your levi Uv rolls. Yes Levi is ugly compared to the design of CIV. But the knockback of Levi ruins the up to 3 hits. I can never get more one unless i'm a bomber with freeze. I'm not a swordsman, I'm a bomber.

The Katana should be faster and stronger than Levi to work ingame. Japan's weaponry used to be the most advanced and the Katana should work like a faster, stronger Levi because Levi is a BROADSWORD not made using folded steel.

Sat, 12/17/2011 - 07:44

#28

Round-Shinigami

Atrumvindex To be exact: I

Atrumvindex
To be exact: I don't care weather katanas used to be better than broadswords, its not related to Spiral Knights universe in any way. What I want is different looks for a good weapon.
PS: if you want to hit more than once with levi's charge, try to get your opponent to walk near a wall or any other object that will prevent them from flying away. I often get 2-3 hits with charge - if they hit a wall, it counts as 2nd levi charge hit.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 11:01

#29

Round-Shinigami

Elevator pass did come back

Elevator pass did come back as $6/30d offer, maybe, just maybe, I'll be able to get my nice-looking curved sword, too?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:03

#30

Neodasus

and I want a greataxe unique

and I want a greataxe unique weapon

but neither us gets what they want so why bother

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 22:31

#31

Metagenic

…lolwut

Acheron has 5 Polaris-esque explosions, who said it's a weak sword?

Fri, 01/20/2012 - 12:03

#32

Melisan

"Anything that doesn't hit

"Anything that doesn't hit enemies behind you is nearly useless in actual fight." What crap you are spouting.
The brandish line is easily comparable to the DA mainly due to it's faster charge time, the ability to move at full speed whilst charging and it's knockback (kickback is more related to recoil).
The levi is one of the least used weapons at end game level, you generalise at first then you specialise.
They ALWAYS put katanas in mmo games and i'm pretty tired of it, a slight nod with the Acheron is all that's needed.

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