Spiral Knights - Ettiquette and Bombers

Ettiquette and Bombers

52 replies [Last post]

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 11:40

Darkbrady

There's countless threads and posts about people QQing about bombers, Nitro specifically, and how they ruin their gameplay and send monsters flinging across the screen at them blah blah blah.
Yes, all valid points I understand, but it is, actually a two-way street.

Fact is, that when I use Nitro (I don't like using it much, but sometimes it's just the best option) I make an effort to make sure it won't majorly disrupt my team. I like bombing by circling the enemies and bouncing them back and forth so they don't go too far out of control, or accidentally fly out of my focus.
Now, people whine and cry all the time that bombers cause so much hassle, and that nitro causes so much lag and QQ, whine, cry, moan.

But y'know what? I'm startin' to get sick of people who want me to do things their way, and have no respect for what I do. If I fling the odd slime if your face, you can kill it, get over it. If you knock every mob out of my rads, I can't do donkey nuts to anything. Ever since the patch, wolver dens are the easiest thing in the world for me; spike shower and a few spare minutes and I'll walk through them without being scratched. So why do people have to KB mobs OUT of my rads and INTO me? I'm a bomber, my armour is like wet paper bags, so you pushing monsters into me will get me killed a LOT worse than what happens if I push a monster into you, especially since I can't just "swing/kb/safe", at least not without a lightning fast weapon switch.

And this *especially* applies to RSS, where placement is absolutely critical. If I drop an RSS at the foot of three zombies and you troll in and KB them all miles away then get your face eaten, I'll be lucky if a single shard hits them. If you stay back a second, odds are that all three will just die on the spot. This is even more the case for kats that are hard enough to place for without them being knocked left right and centre.

Now yeah, I get that bombers generally get designated as a support class in groups, but I honestly feel that that's only the case *because* swordies make bombing so difficult. Sure, I can support. But sometimes it's not practical, or there's simply no need to. If we're blasting through a run fast and easy, why bother dropping statuses when I can just help kill faster? Me and my gf (who is a swordie) run through everything fine, and fast. I support when it's appropriate, but when damage is the answer, she knows how to not get in my way, showing a fine example of how the two can go well together without inherently shunning dps bombers to support status that don't need to be.

TL;DR?!
Next time you think about bitching about bombers and how they ruin your life, take a second and consider just HOW often you make their life ten times harder. Stop KBing mobs out of rads that do not immediately need to be attacked. Stop attacking mobs that are sitting next to an RSS drop. You want bombers to be considerate? Start being considerate to them, too; it will go a long way.

/rant

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 11:57

Ccrusader

TOTALLY AGREE!!!! Very nice

TOTALLY AGREE!!!!

Very nice "rant" and very well thought out...
I am a swordsman at heart, but lately have been loving to bomb.... and i totally agree with you man!
Thanks for putting this into words.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 12:06

Nordlead

sorry, I'd listen to your

sorry, I'd listen to your rant, but I don't know what any of your abbreviations mean. I know, all the cool spiral knights people know what they are, but I can't keep up with it especially when they aren't on the wiki list of commonly used abbreviations.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 12:10

Darkbrady

KB = knockback RSS = radiant

KB = knockback
RSS = radiant sun shards, a bomb that fires shards in compass directions only, instead of a radius, making it difficult to place effectively
Nitro = Nitronome, the annoying blast bomb that KBs mobs everywhere, while causing a flash and screenshake
TL;DR = too long; didn't read

Think that's the only things I shortened o.o

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 12:35

Rangerwillx

I agree.

I agree, but you might want to say this instead of using the inappropriate word. Or something like this.
"....next time you think about being a jerk to bombers, and.." to save Eury the hassle to edit out the inappropriate word.
*shrugs* Just trying to save the GM's time.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 12:38

Geekfox

Sorry for asking but...

What's QQ?

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 12:43

Darkbrady

It's like a wee set of eyes

It's like a wee set of eyes that have wee baby tears comin' out of the sides.

Means crying/sad over somethin', altough people also use it to mean whining, complaining, moping, throwin' tantrums etc.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 12:46

Demonicsothe

crying face. In the same

crying face. In the same family as T.T but with more of a whining connotation.

Justified rage and rant. I've seen good nitro's just block monsters from entering a room or a cooridor, and allows the team to polish off the other enemies.

But not everyone is as good as you. Most people complan about poor placement of bombs, and excessive useage in places where a sword is better. Educate the aspiring bombers, make the forum QQ less about them.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 12:50

Darkbrady

Oh yeah, I'm definitely not

Oh yeah, I'm definitely not tryin' to say that swordies are wwrong for complaining, there definitely are a lot of stupid nitro placements and I think unless someone is particularly amazing with nitro, should generally always make a point to keep that as a spare option rather than their main bomb of choice, just because it's *so* easy to accidentally cause problems and tends not to pay off for it unless it's on mobs that don't KB much (best bomb ever for Lumbers, if you ask me, they never even take a swing).

My problem is that clumsy nitro users aside, a lot of folk completely fail to take into consideration how their actions affect the bombers, irrespective of the skill level of the bomber in question, and tend to run headlong into combat without a thought for the big (now more obvious than ever!) bomb rad that's next to them.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 12:58

Demonicsothe

Generally on a dive, one

Generally on a dive, one wishes to kill asap, and reduce the time spent. Swords, in the game's current condition, tends to do higher dps than most other weapons. Yes, there are occasions where a bomb is more suitable, not denying that.

Just something to consider, since the priority right after staying alive is killing the monsters. Huge knockbacks are just unpredictable for people not watching you directly.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 13:01

#10

Batabii

use electron vortex Your team

use electron vortex

Your team will thank you.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 13:12

#11

Demonicsothe

Yes. That. Best utility bomb. Although getting too close to that big circle of monsters is not safe, since they can still attack you while spinning.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 13:13

#12

Alice-In-Pyroland

This isn't just something

This isn't just something that happens to bombers, in almost any PUG group you run the risk of running with idiots whom will complain about nigh on anything. I've seen people criticize sword users for taking Brandish line swords into a depth instead of the Sealed Sword line for example. If you don't want to deal with morons, they only sure fire way to do so is not run with randoms which really applies to nigh on every online game.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 13:21

#13

Darkbrady

Totally aware that sometimes

Totally aware that sometimes bombs will work off slower, and for that I tend to keep back and get stragglers, or go alternate paths, find some other way to make myself useful if support isn't neccesarry, but that's not to say that bombs and swords can't co-efficiently dps together, and tehre's a lot of maps that's especially true, such as Scarlet Fortress, where the mobs scatter around a lot and can shoot.

As for KBs, I avoid Nitro typically, I don't really use anything that causes knockback. I use vortexes and never see a problem, but when, say...the wolver den example. I'm yet to see a swordie manage to wipe out a T3 wolver den as fast as you can do it with bombs. Swordies need to chase them aroudn while dodging (now sidestepping) the bites, and dealing with teleports. I stand in one place and drop bombs and they all teleport to me, and die.

Is there any reason for swordies to run in and KB them all over the place, slowing the whole thing down? No, but they do that anyways.

EDIT:
@Batabii:
Love the vortexes, although swordies are able to knock the mobs out of the vortex before it explodes. Both useful, and annoying depending on how capable the swordie in question is. Typical method is just dropping them in front of fireboxes and then lining them up in front of you as you packpedal, letting all the mobs funnel to you graciously and get shocked, vortex'd and damaged, leaving ample space for swordies to attack from the rear w/o hassle.
Yet, somehow people would rather just not let the mobs anywhere near the vortex *sigh*

@Echoez:
About PuGs, definitely, but I'm starting to notice that even guildies (even ones that bomb themselves, occasionally) have a habit of not thinking it through. In general, I'm just starting to notice a lot of swordies who simply don't think beyond "run, swing, shield, swing". It's like a rush for the kill, when there's no reward to. Running a GY earlier was a nightmare when my guildy who DOES use bombs absolutely insisted on attacking every zombie that I dropped an RSS at, and she certainly did not kill them faster than..well, insta-kill.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 13:54

#14

Psychodestroyer

...

Graviton Calibur combo.

Best crowd killer ever. Especially in RJP.

Electron works too.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 14:14

#15

Darkbrady

in RJP I always go for

in RJP I always go for Graviton. Slowing them down ever so slightly with shock doesnae nearly make up for the extra damage Graviton pulls on them <3

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 14:36

#16

Trying

Polaris spammer what every

Polaris spammer
what every vortex bomber hates

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 14:55

#17

Bopp

common thread topic

This is a common thread topic. I can't tell how it's different from this one, in which Darkbrady is also participating.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 15:23

#18

Xylka-Mkii

+1 anyway I'm a Swords

+1 anyway

I'm a Swords person, but at least I don't whine like a 10 year old.

They wanted to play like that, so how about you complainers stop doing that and let them play their way. Don't like it? Then how about you go solo.... O WAIT, FSC is too hard for you, I forgot. :P

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 15:24

#19

Darkbrady

That thread is about people

That thread is about people who complain about bombers being disrespectful to party ettiquette by spamming bombs inappropriately and making the life of swordies harder.
This thread is about non-bombers being disrespectful to the party ettiquette by ignoring bombers' needs and making the life of the bomber harder.

I'm basically saying that for all that people complain about bombers and nitro, people have a shocking disregard for the bombers and how much they affect them by knocking mobs out of rads.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 15:25

#20

Rusvul

Burn them all!!!

I guess I'm a hybrid bomber more than anything; my armor set is a mix for a good compromise of CTR and protection, my other weapon is a Levi, and my primary bomb is an Ash of Agni (with a freezing atomizer as my alternate - I should level that up, I guess). The guys I usually play with love to beat up on flaming bad guys that have been softened up by a flurry of bombs, or to wind up with a big charge attack when they're frozen. However, I do know how challenging it can be when someone's using a bomb with lots of knockback and they scatter the baddies. It takes some skill and planning to work with that style of bomb in a team.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 15:35

#21

Jonathansiu

I LOVE nitros and bombers,

I LOVE nitros and bombers, but having the screen shaking every 2 secs and a blue trollface filling up 3/4 my screen are just too much for me. I winced every time the bomb goes off and it's giving me a heart attack. However, I have nothing against the monsters bouncing back and forth and it actually sounds fun to me. It would be MUCH better if they could add an option where you could turn off the shake screen function.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 15:43

#22

Darkbrady

@Rusvul: Haze bombs are

@Rusvul:
Haze bombs are alright, because the haze is pretty large (on 5*s , anyways) and remains around for a while afterwards, allowing mobs to walk into them after the det, and since they're support bombs it tends not to be a worry if a mob gets KBd out of the rad. My main issue is with people knocking mobs away from dps bombs, that do absolutely nothing if they don't hit, such as RSS and DBB.

@Janathansiu:
Completely agree, even as a bomber it drives me mad. KBin' lumbers and retrodes around in small circles/back and forth is surprisingly useful tactic, as they spend their whole time tracking you to prepare and attack and never get around to it, but never send them far away enough to be a hassle. It requires pretty high CTR though becasue you need to plant the bombs before the previous ones go off or they get too much time. But doing it that way allows swordies to walk in and batter them away without causing hassle to either player.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 15:47

#23

Fehzor

Heh

I have an electron vortex with slime high. I use it for RJP.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 16:05

#24

Darkbrady

Would totally love one of

Would totally love one of those o_o

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 16:45

#25

Rangerwillx

Uhhh...

"Graviton Calibur combo.

Best crowd killer ever. Especially in RJP."

I laugh at this. The Brandish line is much better for that :3

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:44

#26

Batabii

@psychodestroyer why calibur?

@psychodestroyer why calibur? just use one of the brandish line's charge attacks, or the BTB if they resist that. much more useful. Actually FoV might work great with a charge too, just stand in the middle. DVS might work nicely too, given it's short range. Wouldn't calibur just fling them out of the blast?

Also that's a good time to use vials.

@darkbrady Vortexes are not damage bombs. What little bonus you get from Graviton vs slime is irrelevant when you can just smash them with faust while they're stuck.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 18:38

#27

Darkbrady

Ever used vortexes with max

Ever used vortexes with max damage when it has type advantage? It pulls its weight for damage, don't doubt it. That's not to say that if a sword user were to take a swing it would be more damage than teh swordie, but if it came down to elemental or shadow, the graviton *will* deal more damage, and will deal serious enough damage at that. I can walk through Scarlet Fortress using nothing but Vortexes and just watch them all drop dead from the implosion alone.

Just becasue it's not an outright dps bomb doesn't mean the damage it deals isn't worth it; try it sometime.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 18:41

#28

Psychodestroyer

Well, the brandish line may be better, NOW. I dunno, I don't have a brandish.

But before, my tempered calibur had around 196-203 damage per hit on the charge hit, and that can hit up to 3 times.

The Gravition does significantly less damage, even with the slime bonus that comes with shadow damage (last I saw anyway).

By using a Calibur charge attack on a Gravition, you have multiple enemies all clustered in on one point, which you then smash with the charge attack, doing significantly more damage than regular attacking. ESPECIALLY if more than one hit lands.

And if you're even luckier, the explosion will still do it's damage as they fly out of the explosion. BONUS.

This works great when you're low on HP or something, or just kiting large numbers of opponents. It pins them down in one tightly packed group, allowing for you to land a definite hit, provided they don't hit you while you come in to attack.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 18:53

#29

Darkbrady

Again, I wasn't saying that

Again, I wasn't saying that the damage was enough that sword users might as well sit back and watch the show, definitely lay into them like; but I'm saying that the bomb alone /does/ cause significant damage that can stack up nicely with swords, and certainly high enough damage that it's worth using graviton over electron for slimes.

With my gear, I can drop a vortex, step back and watch them get sucked in, then have another one dropped by the time they get exploded outwards and almost immediately get sucked in again. Having sword attacks from behind/the side of this will floor them in no time. Adding shock to the equation for a sizeable damage drop just...is pointless.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 22:42

#30

Velcro

@Psychodestroyer: The key is

@Psychodestroyer:

The key is that Brandish has almost no knockback on a cluster AND the charge itself. Before the buff, I used to deal around 400 for a regular hit, 500 for the third hit in the combo, 800 for for charge hit, and 200 per explosion at around depth 26.

The charge itself is very quick in execution and animation delay, AND you step forward during the charge meaning you don't need to even be next to the enemies in the Vortex before releasing the charge because you lunge into them.

Furthermore, the charge attack counts as the first hit in the combo, so following up with 2 more strikes gets you the 2nd and 3rd hits in the combo. And hey, the third attack can cancel attacks so you're safer that way.

So against 4/6 of enemies you deal 800 + 200 + 400 + 500 = 1900 damage to enemies in the front (with Max! Damage) which is about 4 zombies receiving the full brunt of the attack most of the time. The others would usually take 2 explosions at least, maybe one of the follow-up attacks.

With the buff, the damage is even better.

@ FoV w/ Vortex:

It is good in theory, but personally it needs a specialized set to get fire resistance and damage bonus as well as CTR. And with the buff to Brandishes I still don't know if it's a better choice.

@ Graviton over Electron:

Electron is without a doubt better than Graviton in ALMOST all situations. The only even remotely conceivable example where Graviton is better is if you're in a disorderly PUG that doesn't contribute to the damage. Assuming you have a party that can use the Vortex, though:

If you're soloing and have Max damage on your Brandish then if the enemy is weak you will kill the enemies in the front with a charge + 2 attack follow-up with the explosion. Most enemies in the Vortex, if alive, merely require 1 or AT MOST 2 hits to kill. Also the shock can help to negate knockback thus increasing your damage AND also stops enemies from attacking for a moment. Furthermore the shock alone in a clustered group might be stronger than your Graviton damage anyway. In the situations where Graviton is equivalent to Electron (where you gather large groups so the fling-effect is negated) then the shock will surely deal more damage. Personally I prefer a CTR UV on my Vortex also, but I'm a Gravity Sword-Bomber so maybe a full bomber could use the damage with CTR Max! already.

Finally, if you're in a group that can use Vortex, releasing just two sword charges (hopefully either 2 Brandishes or 1 Brandish + 1 DA) from opposite ends will kill most enemies as well.

You say the Graviton deals significantly more damage with damage UVs. Electron just did 113 on d19 against a neutral target. We'll assume 250 at d28 (which iirc is about right) so against a weak enemy that's about 400 ish, a strong enemy being like 100 ish. Max Damage is 30% iirc so that's 120 extra damage. So a difference of about 500 damage between the two...

Hmm, running the numbers, I'd still argue it's overkill, but if you were a pure bomber I can see the benefit to damage UVs and using Graviton if you already have Max! CTR.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 22:53

#31

Darkbrady

I don't have any useful UVs

I don't have any useful UVs on my set at all, I use Mad Bomber so I always have max damage/max CTR rate.
In destrux factories and RJP shock is just never ever worth it. The shock bonus is nice, but won't cause enough hassle to the mobs overall to be worth leaving them alive longer. Dropping the Gravi lets them take a pretty serious hit being weak to it (Gremlins especially, since they're strong against elemental) and get flung around. Damage is nice, and the control is nice, especially in RJP when numbers can get out of hand in small areas.
I've never really found any real use to having them shocked overall, it just never seems to make up for the loss of damage per explosion, especially since I can drop new vortexes next to them before they're even finished being blown up.

Everywhere else, however, I'd agree. Anything that isn't weak to shadow, or strong to elemental, Electron is the way to go. I just like having both to maximise so I can switch out when I need them; Scarlet Fortress especially, is an amazing place for Electron, excepting only the fact that Kats seem to have a nasty habit of being able to escape the vortex if they dash just right; still trying to figure out how exactly to counter that, but I'm not really in there enough.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 23:05

#32

Velcro

It seems we just have

It seems we just have differing styles then. I don't chain Vortices. I plant one, charge my Brandish, and usually kill the group. If not, one more Vortex will finish the group.

There I rather have the shock for added security and less chance for team angering with the fling.

Also there isn't really a good way to counter Kats flying out of your Vortex. Your best bet is to walk into a room with it charged and drop it so that they get sucked in as they charge at you.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 23:12

#33

No-Thanks

Zelda

"About PuGs, definitely, but I'm starting to notice that even guildies (even ones that bomb themselves, occasionally) have a habit of not thinking it through. In general, I'm just starting to notice a lot of swordies who simply don't think beyond "run, swing, shield, swing". It's like a rush for the kill, when there's no reward to. Running a GY earlier was a nightmare when my guildy who DOES use bombs absolutely insisted on attacking every zombie that I dropped an RSS at, and she certainly did not kill them faster than..well, insta-kill."

it should be perfectly legit as long as the other person doesnt complain
the reward is the fun and usually the issues should be minor in easy maps
what u could do is
-run away from party members(unfortunately u wont get to interact with other people much this way)
-see them as obstacle(which makes it alot more exhausting)

i hate complaints about bad visibility tho, because ive never been in a position where i could put all the blame on a bomb's visual effects alone, thers always more to it than just a bomb's shiny light

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 23:34

#34

Psychodestroyer

/shrug

I never had a brandish. And this was in T2, I think you're talking about T3 damage.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 23:38

#35

Darkbrady

@Velcro: Aye, that's the jist

@Velcro:
Aye, that's the jist of what I@ve been tryin' to do is gauge their distance and plant it accordingly, such that they dash and finish on top of the vortex, and get trapped in place. It's tricky, but do-able.
And yeah, I'm not saying this about vortexes to change anyones mind, I was just pointing out that assuming shock is immediately better "Because the damage difference is negligible" is short-sighted and uncreative at best; one has to explore these things to find out, and in cases like RJP, that helps a lot to have the extra damage.
Your way makes enough sense, shocking them as a precedence to attack with swords, but I never really sword, and either let my gf lay into them or just chain the vortexes (well, I do that regardless). Vortex chaining can be slow in some situations, but it's a ruuthlessly efficient way of killing large crowds in an extremely safe (literally harm-free) manner, such as T3 armoured gremlins in dstrux zones that can be a total nightmare to deal with once they start to surround you.

@No-Thanks:
Well with RSS there's no visibility/lag issues, the graphical effect is minimal, and if any normal mob is standing on top of an RSS, it will die, so attacking it and KBing it away will do nothing but waste time, and most of these people shold be well aware of that fact.
Point and case; if they were about to go up and attack a monster, and I dropped a Nitro nearby and it flung the mob miles away, *I* would be getting shouted at, and be the source of aggravation. My point is that people complain about bombers w/o any consideration to how hard they make it for us

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 01:02

#36

No-Thanks

Zelda

"Well with RSS there's no visibility/lag issues, the graphical effect is minimal, and if any normal mob is standing on top of an RSS, it will die, so attacking it and KBing it away will do nothing but waste time, and most of these people shold be well aware of that fact.
Point and case; if they were about to go up and attack a monster, and I dropped a Nitro nearby and it flung the mob miles away, *I* would be getting shouted at, and be the source of aggravation. My point is that people complain about bombers w/o any consideration to how hard they make it for us"

i think thats too generalized

has every person, who complained about ur bombs, also knocked monsters away from ur RSS? or has every person, who knocked monsters away from ur RSS, also complained about ur bombs? if not, then its very unlikely for them(the ones, who complain) to even be able to consider how hard it may be for us(bombers), because they(the ones, who complain) werent present at all times and most importantly they wont be paying attention to every little incident, that a bomber may have to deal with

tl;dr a person would have to witness a bomber having had a hard time in order to understand, that it may be hard for a bomber. and it must be obvious, nothing sneaky, that no1 notices, so most probably they wont have any idea unless they bomb themselves

i personally, despite having bombed, wouldnt hesitate attacking a monster JUST because thers some bomber waiting for his RSS to explode, thats not gona steal my fun in a room, where i dont have the choice to abandon the group of monsters and go find another 1 for me alone. but ive never complained about a bombs knockback unless u consider calibur/pulsar to be a bomb. the only bomb ive ever complained about is ice bomb(the people who think, they make my life easier without dealing any damage)

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 01:43

#37

Darkbrady

Thus, the point of this

Thus, the point of this thread. Everyone QQs about bombers and is seemingly ignorant of how much hassle they cause us, so I think it's about time it was made public that which I would otherwise have thought obvious; KBing a mob out of a bomb rad will in fact make the bomb useless and cause grief for the bomber.

And it's a bit self-centred to say that you'll attack a group of mobs waiting for an RSS to det becasue you're bored, when the RSS det time is all of half a second. I can drop an RSS and have it det and kill all the mobs around in the time it takes for you to take a swing, so if you really are just bored and want to do stuff then...hell, just tell the bomber to relax and he can sit back and enjoy the free heat/crowns. If you actually want some help, then contain yourself for literally a second for the det charge to go off, especially since after it does go off, the odds are the mobs will die faster than you can bring them down.

After all, it is the point. Bombs will bring down groups faster than swords.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 01:46

#38

No-Thanks

Zelda

if it was that simple id tell everybody to relax, but having some common sense i expect ppl wana enjoy the game with me, not just wait in the corner like a tool to revive me in case i die, which is very unlikely anyway if im on my own

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 01:54

#39

Alice-In-Pyroland

wouldnt hesitate attacking a

wouldnt hesitate attacking a monster JUST because thers some bomber waiting for his RSS to explode, thats not gona steal my fun in a room,

But you're quite content stealing his or her fun? Unless you're at the very end of a depth or immediately before a party button you can easily take the oppurtunity to go on ahead and the find a new group of mobs, instead of not only interfering with the bomber's enjoyment but also slowing down your party.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 01:57

#40

Darkbrady

Well look at it this way. You

Well look at it this way.

You think that waiting almost an entire second before watching a spectacular display of ten-dead-zombies is ruining your fun in the game?

Imagine how much of MY fun is ruined, when I plant the bomb and want to see said display, then some swordie comes along and KBs them all away. My bomb hits nothing whatsoever and I have to wait another five~ten seconds for that one swordie to actually manage to kill all those zombies and potentially die in the process.

If you're talking about "fun-ruining" and lack of patience, then the swordies who are doing that are still completely in the wrong by wasting a hell of a lot MORE of the bombers time. You have to wait half a second for a bomb to det before you go and find new mobs anywyas. I have to sit in the corner and watch you KB all my kills left right and centre making it impossible for me to do anything at all.

Fun-ruining? You got it! You're have pretty much the type of attitude this rantthread is addressed to; either complete ignorance, complete selfishness or complete unwillingness to accept a variation other than whatever it is you feel like doing.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 02:08

#41

No-Thanks

Zelda

#39 u put it the wrong way, i attack zombies with the intent to kill them not thinking about the bombers bomb. in ur case id be doing the exact opposite.

i was embracing this thread because i find it unreasonable to be blamed for using a bomb, but apparantly all u do is talk me and everybody else, whos just trying to enjoy the game and coincidentally bothering u, down. yet i tryed my best to imagine myself being in the position of a swordie, a bomber AND a gunner

good luck achieving something constructive with this thread, peace out

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 02:15

#42

Darkbrady

/ attack zombies with the

/ attack zombies with the intent to kill them not thinking about the bombers bomb../

Point and case. People don't think. Yet, if a bomber does something to upset them then BOOM! (pun?) There's some explaining to do. People get kicked, instructed to change weapons, arguments are had. As soon as someone does something to bother these swordies in question, there's trouble, yet the swordies act without thinking, even if it is ultimately the worse course of action.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 02:18

#43

Yeriq

Bombers are fun to party with

Bombers are fun to party with if you got half the brain to figure one out.

If the bomber is skilled and has the right selection of bombs, I either pull aggro and he kills everything(ie. dragging the mob across an ash of agni) or he kills everything and I take pot shots with whatever gun I have (ie. corridor, he slaps Nitros, pushing the mob away and I just unload my clip down range).

If the bomber is a nutcase and spams Nitro then I let him go ahead and get himself killed (LOL) or more likely get booted off the group (ROLF).

My point is whining is a waste of time and not fun.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 02:18

#44

No-Thanks

Zelda

do u even read what i write? i did NOT complain about a bombers poom, u put us all in 1 group and treat us alike despite our differences

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 02:25

#45

Darkbrady

I'm not saying that "the only

I'm not saying that "the only people who screw bombers over are the ones who complain". I'm saying that despite a lot of people complaining, that there's also a lot of people (a...LOT...) who screw bombers over, and that half of them actually complain about bombers.

It doesn't matter if you don't complain about bombers...you're still makin' their lives harder by being selfish, which is the point of my rant.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 02:42

#46

Psychodestroyer

Actually...

Dark is right. People tend to not care about bomber's endeavors to deal damage with their little toys, they just try and kill everything.

Not saying this is a bad thing, but I know I don't like it when I gear up for an assault only to find my opponent is no longer there.

Be more considerate of other players tactics, and if they can't already guess, spell out your plans to them so they DO get it.

I find there's too much discrimination because of gear in these parts. People don't like polaris/pulsar users, nitronome/blast/any heavy explosive bomb users, calibur/levi charges and other. (some even think gunners are totally useless)

My point is, if you wrok in a team, work AS a team. what is there for a status bomber to do if his teammates keep knocking away his targets? What use is a swordsman is a gunner blows his target away? What use is a gunner if he can't even shoot anything due to his opponents flying all over the room?

I'm not pointing out anyone directly, but there are people who think they're the only reliable player in their team, and so don't rev, attack recklessly, knock away enemies from allies that they were handling fine, and blame everyone else for dying.

'Team' isn't just a nice title. If you're in one, work as one. You want something done, say it. Be considerate of your team members. If you have close to full HP, then the nice thing to do would be to pass over that spare healthcap on the floor to the dying comrade.

Of course, there are players who can't carry their weight i the team, but they have their own problems to sort out. Just don't make it HARDER for them.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 08:00

#47

Gospel

+999999

I support you 100%

I'm not a bomber at all, I'm a full swordie... (with a gunner's heart)
But my respect is really for them bombers (the full ones are a very rare breed)

If luckily im the leader of a party and a swordie b****es about our bomber, i kick em without second thought...
these morons cant appreciate the sacrifice of bombers at all.

I dont own (yet) a Shivermist for FSC, but i always appreciate when one partymate has one. Indeed that person is not a full bomber, but when the time comes for Vanaduke and this poor fellow just stands in to freeze, MISSING ALL THE FUN ACTION, I really aim to help out just to make his/her job easier (by steering them Slags away and clearing the floor of fire).
On Fiend levels like Fiendish fray, and you are lucky enough to have someone with DBB, OH THE JOY OF ME!

A fully working party is one that adapts to the tactics of ALL its members. When one person whines because he cant do things his/her own way, then problems will really occur. Adapt for the sake of all... that is how a player should always be!

But, we will also have to consider that there really are bad bombers around... to them, meh

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 13:14

#48

Halifix

I don't care what weapons you

I don't care what weapons you use. If there's enough enemies, find your own to kill and leave mine alone.

Fortunately, if I happen to have vortexed all enemies together with none to spare, practically every weapon that isn't a haze bomb, Cutter sword, or Gran Faust can use a charge attack against that mob.

These should be the target priorities depending on your weapon:
Swords: Healers, demons
Gunners: puppies, zombies
Bombers: jellies, large mobs

Of course, this is all situational.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 18:43

#49

Darkbrady

Swordies putting their focus

Swordies putting their focus to healers is something I totally agree with , but don't see as much as I'd like. The best bombs for Menders aer vortexes, and they can still heal throgh that (silkwings are neither here nor there, since DBB shreds them), but they're awkward to kill as a bomber, espeecially with dodge and their habit to outright run away; it's sad the amount of times I see swordies going after a group of lumbers in the arena (and either spending all their time running in circles, or getting hammered into the floor) while ignornig the healers :(

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 21:15

#50

Bopp

those priorities make little sense to me

The priorities listed by Halifix don't make much sense to me. Why are zombies a priority for *anybody*? They are slow and have no long-range attack. Yes, healers should be a priority for sworders. But a skilled gunner can snipe healers out of a crowd even better than a mediocre sworder. Why aren't healers a priority for gunners? Another counter-healer tactic is Ash of Agni or Venom Veiler. So maybe healers should be a priority for bombers, too.

In general, I agree with the sentiment of this thread. Bombers should keep in mind that sworders aren't wrecking them deliberately. Many sworders just don't have enough experience playing with bombers, and haven't figured out the optimal tactics yet.

Here an example. We're in a wolver den. You drop a Dark Briar Barrage next to me and run away. One wolver is within its blast radius, and he's giving me a funny look. I want to wait for that DBB to go off, because I know that it's powerful. But the wolver is a threat to me (not you), and I can kill him very quickly, and while I'm killing him his attacks will be disrupted. So should I kill him, or run away to find another target? Because with DBB's fast charge time, you will have probably dropped another DBB on the next group of wolvers too. See what I mean? I'm a well-meaning sworder who is trying to treat you well, but even I am going to just kill that wolver.

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