Hi recently I have decided to start gunslinging I already have 5* Shadowsun and Nameless so I was thinking about getting a alchemer the only problem is I don't know which to get I heard the frost and nova are the lowest DPS so I m leaning towards shock or fire.
Alchemer Gun Lines
Sun, 01/15/2012 - 11:34
Sun, 01/15/2012 - 11:45
#2
Nova driver has the most
Nova driver has the most damage per shot, and thats all it has. No dot, or cc abilities.
Hail driver is freeze upon shot. Generally not prefered because to get dps on an alchemer, you want the shots to ricochet. That same ricochet will unfreeze the monster.
Magma driver is fire dot, obviously useless against fire resistant enemies. It does have the highest single target dot of all alchemers.
Storm driver inflicts shock. Shock deals less dot than fire, but paralyzes movement when being damaged by the status. As the shocked monster is suffering damage, monsters that are next to it also suffers the damage.
Umbra driver is a nova with shadow damage.
It should be noted that on a per shot basis, nova/umbra does more damage. The status alchemers trade some damage to inflict status effects
Sun, 01/15/2012 - 11:48
#3
you mean elemental?
The primary consideration in choosing a handgun (or sword) is damage type. One alchemer is shadow, and the others are elemental. Which do you want? For reference, here are all of the pure non-normal 5-star guns:
* piercing: Callahan, Blitz Needle, Plague Needle
* elemental: Nova Driver (pure damage), Storm Driver (shock), Magma Driver (fire), Hail Driver (freeze), and Polaris (shock, knockback)
* shadow: Umbra Driver, Biohazard
I agree with Batabii about the drawbacks of the Hail Driver, although I know of better gunslingers than me who like it. Among the elemental alchemers, the most popular options seem to be Nova Driver (for maximum damage) or Storm Driver (sacrificing some damage for a useful status).
Sun, 01/15/2012 - 11:53
#4
I have...
Well I already have a blitz needle and am working on a biohazard so yes I am looking for an elemental weapon and so far it seems nova is better, but what about magma I heard that magma does more dps overall because of it's fire status.
And is the damage difference from the nova and magma driver's initial shot without the status a big difference.
Sun, 01/15/2012 - 13:05
#5
Status damage isn't affected
Status damage isn't affected by damage bonus abilities (bonus from Trueshot Modules and Shadowsun Set, UVs vs. something) so go for Nova if you plan on doing Shadowsun + 2x Elite Trueshot Module, if you aren't getting the trinkets i'd still go for Nova
Sun, 01/15/2012 - 15:16
#6
magma would be way better and
magma would be way better and used more often but it fails hard in fsc(well, not as bad as taking umbra there, but...)
Sun, 01/15/2012 - 16:08
#7
I'll recommend shock. Here's
I'll recommend shock. Here's why;
Nova driver does exceptional damage, and is best with a CTR UV. (like any alchemer). It is an all-around good gun.
Hail driver: Don't underestimate the freeze. It can be a lifesaver in some situations. It does break it's own freeze though.
Magma driver: Great everywhere but FSC, for obvious reasons. The fire makes everything a snap
Storm driver: Same DMG as hail and magma, but the shock status comes in handy plenty of times. The shock holds the enemy in place most of the time, and also does damage. It is the beat elemental alchemer for use in lockdown too, because once someone is shocked, they are almost guaranteed to be dead.
Side note: Today, I hit someone with a Voltedge charge, and they died of shock trying to escape)
Lastly, you can use storm drivers on quicksilvers. It actually helps them kill each other faster. Just make sure you keep your shield up.
Mon, 01/16/2012 - 12:52
#8
i went Umbra driver as its
i went Umbra driver as its beast.
Mon, 01/16/2012 - 16:18
#9
Not Storm
The Storm Driver is totally outclassed by the Polaris as all elemental alchemers are. If you want a shock gun, get a Polaris.
My favorite elemental alchemer is the Magma Driver. I love the damage over time, especially when ricochets catch an entire cluster of enemies on fire with just one or two shots. For fire levels, I carry a Hail Driver instead, not because it does fabulous damage, but because ice extinguishes oilers (eventually), so it's a must-have status somewhere in your loadout for non-FSC fire levels. I'd get more damage per bullet out of a Nova Driver than the Hail Driver, but the freeze is useful enough that it's worth about a 10% damage reduction. It'll take at most 2 extra bullets to kill an enemy with Hail instead of Nova, so I find that a worthwhile tradeoff for the added crowd control and oiler extinguishing.
Umbra Driver is great, and every gunslinger should have one, but it's not really in the same discussion as the elemental alchemers.
Mon, 01/16/2012 - 16:52
#10
Polaris is not for for
Polaris is not for for parties though: it does do more damage, but the nature of the gun is very irritable for fellow party members. If you actually want to help your party, get a storm driver.
Mon, 01/16/2012 - 22:16
#11
In normal cases, Nova is a
In normal cases, Nova is a better elemental gun than other status-effect alchemers. However, bear in mind that this gun would be used most often in FSC, so the situation would be a bunch of undeads crowded in a small room. Nova is pretty good in 1v1 situation, but when it goes to FSC, it should take you some time to take down every single zombie, even with help from you teammates. Therefore, storm driver should be better than nova in this particular case, as the shock would both spread to adjacent zombies AND cause quite a lot of damage to a pack of zombies.
Tue, 01/17/2012 - 15:31
#12
Alchemers are NOT outclassed
Alchemers are NOT outclassed by Polaris unless you're firing into a corner or at a turret. Well-placed alchemer shots will kill standard enemies faster than anything but autogun charges. Polaris is good as a utility gun when you need to move some enemies around, but it's very, very poor as a DPS gun because it actively moves its targets out of its own range. When was the last time you saw a pure gunner using a pulsar?
I like my Nova because it will consistently kill enemies one hit faster than the others. Storm would be my next choice if you need some extra crowd control, but I'm a "bump 'n' run" kind of gunner and like my enemies to move consistently and predictably, which shock is poor at facilitating.
Tue, 01/17/2012 - 17:21
#13
there's very little love for
there's very little love for the magma here :O... the magma is great for dealing with a group of enemies but u have to inflict burn on multiple targets (70damage per tick hurts). would love to have a way to calculate which gun deal better dps (nova or magma) against various group sizes though...
@Arquebus: couldn't have said it better myself (about the pulsar line).
Tue, 01/17/2012 - 17:33
#14
@Icee
Polaris is more of a sidearm for Swordsmen. If you're a Gunner, you'll definitely want Storm.
The Polaris is better for clearing immobile mobs (Gun Puppies, Polyps), much better than the Alchemers too. However, the knockback of the Polaris will knock targets away which will lower DPS (Unless monsters are packed in a corner, of course). And Guns already have a small DPS anyways, so for Gunners they will prefer Alchemers. The Alchemers have little to no knockback, and with a well placed shot can do pretty good damage because of ricochets hitting a single target. Not only that, but ricochets may also hit other enemies, kinda like having a Polaris and it's little blast.
*EDIT*
Then I look past Icee's post and see someone already posted this. Oh well.
Tue, 01/17/2012 - 18:01
#15
nova!
In clockworks I run Umbra, Nova, and Callahan with a swiftstrike shield shadowsun and two damage trinkets.
Polaris is not very team friendly. I'd recomend a sentenza or AP as a 4th weapon if ya need one, just so you can break blocks faster.
Status effects are nice, but if you want status reliability in clockworks grab a bomb :)
Tue, 01/17/2012 - 18:12
#16
You should probably get an
You should probably get an umbra and either nova/ magma/ storm.
-Umbra does some of the best dps for a shadow gun, considering it is fast and does good damage (biohazard has slow bullets, sentenza is weak)
-Nova is more powerful (elemental) but lacks status
-Magma has great dps, but doesn't work in FSC
-(my recommendation)Storm's shock is really great if you kite a lot (which as a pure gunner you should) since the monsters are in large groups and the shock will spread AND add up (damage-wise)
-Hail is better as a swordsman sidearm, since you can freeze, then hack 'n slash. (it only unfreezes if you get the ricochet to hit or you fire twice... So use wisely! X)
Tue, 01/17/2012 - 18:44
#17
I still say Polaris for shock, but elemental alchemers are great
A pure gunslinger should only be using elemental guns against undead and constructs. That means that a lot of what you're shooting with your elemental gun would be turrets (howlitzers or puppies), which don't get knocked back at all, and lumbers, which don't get knocked back much. A skilled gunslinger can use a Polaris in a group effectively and without upsetting teammates. I do frequently.
The unexpanded Polaris bullet does almost as much damage as a bullet from the Storm Driver, and you get three instead of two plus the option to shoot from a distance and expand for more damage. The three shot clip is the biggest advantage, because you can shoot twice, pause, and shoot twice without reload, which is a better rhythm for most people than shooting once and pausing. You lose the ricochets, which is good and bad; you won't accidentally blow up an exploding block near your teammate nor accidentally hit switches, but you also won't get to hit as many enemies per shot.
There are many situations in which I carry a Polaris and a status alchemer, especially for Concrete Jungle and Candlestick Keep levels. In my experience, I haven't felt any need to ever shelve my Polaris for a Storm Driver. Elemental alchemers are wonderful and I use them just about every time I play, but I can use something other than a Storm Driver and let the Polaris cover my need for a shock gun.
Tue, 01/17/2012 - 20:36
#18
@Icee
"A pure gunslinger should only be using elemental guns against undead and constructs. That means that a lot of what you're shooting with your elemental gun would be turrets (howlitzers or puppies), which don't get knocked back at all, and lumbers, which don't get knocked back much."
zombies, retroids and metaknights are common (WAY more common than lumbers). why are you disregarding them? and those get pushed back as if they are those super bouncy rubber balls.
"The unexpanded Polaris bullet does almost as much damage as a bullet from the Storm Driver, "
the storm does the exact same damage as unexpanded shot. but the storm is at least 3x as likely to inflict a shock status as an unexpanded polaris shot. combine that with the ability to spawn ricochet inside the target, you have a very reliable shock inflicting gun (way more likely to inflict shock than a polaris).
"and you get three instead of two plus the option to shoot from a distance and expand for more damage"
the storm is just out-ranged by like 2-3 squares (explosion radius included). you are letting it expand for more shot damage but it also knocks your target away, making u do LESS dps than without the knockback. also the polaris's bullets are snail-paced, decreasing your dps even further. given that the nova driver does the same amount of damage as the polaris expanded shot AND you can spawn ricochet with the nova, the nova is a way better gun for dps.
from a dps perspective:
3 clip advantage is not that great because you can spawn the storm's ricochet inside the enemies. therefore you are doing 4-6 instantaneous hits every magazine with the storm (versus only 3 hits with the polaris). in addition with VH ASI, it doesn't really matter if you reload or not (see http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/28726 post 10 and http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/23492 [artic's got slightly slower trigger finger than i do]).
from a mobility point of view:
yea 3 clip is great for this since you can do the most shots while avoiding reload. but you can totally empty your magazine, reload and not get hit. just be aware of your position relative to your enemies (com'on it's not that hard to do...)
TLDR:
for shock infliction: storm is better than the polaris
for dps: nova driver is better than the polaris
Tue, 01/17/2012 - 21:13
#19
I still wouldn't buy a Storm Driver
Knocking back a retrode isn't a bad thing. Knocking a retrode back away from your party can help keep its laser out of range for blowing you up. When there are a lot of retrodes (they tend to spawn at least 3 at a time), it's plenty easy to aim each of the three Polaris bullets at a different retrode, so there is no DPS dropoff. Also, retrodes tend to populate clockwork tunnel levels, which have lots of corners that allow you to make optimal use of the Polaris.
Retrodes and zombies don't move quickly or dodge, so it's easy to hit them even with the Polaris' slow bullets. Polaris is not the best weapon against zombies, which is why I generally carry an alchemer where I expect to find zombies. Magma Driver is the best against zombies because they are weak against fire in addition to elemental damage (fire ticks will do more damage to a zombie than most other enemies).
In summary, the Polaris is the best against turrets and good enough against retrodes and zombies so, as I said, I see no reason to have a second elemental/shock gun. Because of the prevalence of arenas and the guaranteed waves of turrets therein, every gunslinger should have a Polaris. The Storm Driver is a great weapon, but if you already own a Polaris, and you should, it's simply not worth 1000+ CE to craft the Storm Driver. Get a Magma Driver instead and you'll have a more well-rounded gunslinger loadout.
On an unrelated note, the cryotech line (Hail Driver) seems to be the only status-inflicting gun line that can inflict its status on phantoms.
Edit to add: Mechaknights are difficult to shoot anyway, because they put up their shield. A good gunslinger times the bullets so 2 out of 3 will get through before the shield comes up again. With ricochets from alchemers, it can be more difficult to time this for a group of multiple mechaknights, but that can be overcome with patience. Regardless of what gun you're carrying, in a party, it's best for the gunslingers to concentrate on other enemies and leave the mechaknights to the bombers and swordfighters.
Wed, 01/18/2012 - 02:09
#20
I may be biased, but I think
I may be biased, but I think I generally do more damage with my Hail Driver than my Nova.
I should probably note that I mostly use charge shots since I can have CTR Max (CTR Med on alchemer + Trinket)
Frozen enemies make it so much easier to line up internal ricochets.
Wed, 01/18/2012 - 13:03
#21
Actually, knocking back a
Actually, knocking back a retrode whos already planted the line, won't push the line back. At least this had held true pre-nerf. Post nerf, its not a problem anymore. Zombies are not weak to fire, they are just inherently weak to elemental damage. Spamming polaris on every elemental weakness monster is a preference for some players.
Hail driver may possibly do more damage than the nova, if you take the time to let them thaw. Nova damage is higher, even on charges. Alchemers all benefit from ctr anyways.
Thu, 01/19/2012 - 07:39
#22
Gunslinger checking in
I have all the Alchemers, and a Polaris. Quite simply, the Alchemers outclass the Polaris on everything except puppies. I don't carry the polaris anyhwere but FSC, simply because it isn't worth it.
Magma Driver: Fire damage is a plus, and great overall gun. My backup to Storm
Storm Driver: Main elemental gun, use charge, usually one shot puppies in parties of 3 because of internal riccochet. Shock generally immobilizes enemies.
Hail Driver: used when solo because freezing things is key
Nova: Holy damage batman, but lack of status is a hinderance
Umbra: kills slimes ded. gremlins too.
I also carry an AP, because I enjoy it very much, and I have a seldom used Callahan. Blitz only comes on fiend areas and FSC with me.
Polaris is nice, but it knocks back EVERYTHING but puppies, and i find only the first expanded bullet does damage. After that they are wasted. Also a rude party gun if not used properly.
The alternate way to gun with Polaris is to shoot in a triangle, trapping the enemies in a slew of explosions. At that point, it is bawse, but i find too often another enemy ends up ruining the triangle.
In closing, I find alchemers to be more reliable damage dealers, but Polaris is an acceptable substitute, if you must.
Thu, 01/19/2012 - 12:36
#23
@perronius
how do you:
do internal ricochets?
shoot in a triangle?
Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:39
#24
@Odinthefather
I know you didn't actually ask me this question, but yeah xP
Internal ricochets: Charge up an alchemer line gun, then aim slightly off-centre of the target. Quite hard to do, but if you're careful you can get bullets spawning within the enemies. I can OHKO t3 zombies and the like in this manner with my Prisma Driver charges.
Shooting in a triangle - from what Perronius said, basically I think this means spreading out the Polaris shots, two on either side and then one in the centre so the enemy isn't knocked to the side so much.
Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:43
#25
aha
k ty
Thu, 01/19/2012 - 19:43
#26
"I have all the Alchemers,
"I have all the Alchemers, and a Polaris. Quite simply, the Alchemers outclass the Polaris on everything except puppies."
Listen to him, he has experience. If you are using Polaris on something that
A. Isn't a gun puppy
B. is intended to be DPSing
C. doesn't need to be knocked back for survival
Then you are silly, even while solo. Polaris is a utility gun. Not a DPS gun. Alchemers have greater damage by far when there is more than one, and much less annoying.
Get an alchemer, not a Polaris. And try to ignore the people that haven't used both alchemers and polarises.
If you were to get a Polaris, it is after you get the alchemer.
Polaris is good in FSC, for survivability, and on gun puppies.
Thu, 01/19/2012 - 22:39
#27
Polaris for
Polaris for puppies/howlitzers. And occasionally polyps, if I can't get close. But that is all. I love my volt driver, and I refuse to substitute a gigawatt for it. Unless I happen to be soloing fsc that day. But otherwise, alchemers ftw.
Nova should be highest, actually. Cryo is bad simply because the ricochets tend to break the ice, and shivermist freezes groups better anyway,