lol Mika, hard to believe anyone could look at the OP here and bring themselves to read every post; a lot of mega-posts here, I'd never be able to read all these posts from scratch! Good stuff though :)
Sudaruska: The Highlander Loadout
actually i read everything too, and loved it until when my head exploded.
im using a nooby variant of the loadout with no trinkets and is working good for me.
mine is
heavy demo set
grintovec
electron vortex
shivermist buster
swiftstrike buckler
works fine on t2 :P havent done a lot of t3.
i replace the grinto with a faust of non-undead/fiend t3 althorough i did a level with grinto on lower t3 and wasnt so bad, but ill get anthoer weapon slot and use my kilo pulsar for gun puppies(mainly cause the other option is a needle shot). ill work on a triglav.
@Echoez:
No proof whatsoever, going based off of my experience/personal judgement of Khorovod vs. Avenger, I could just have sworn that the Khoro's arc was wider at the sides (as in, hit mobs farther to your sides, whereas the other needed mobs to be closer in front of you), however the DA seems to be catching the same mobs as Khoro now, so either the DA has an equal hitbox, or it's just my imagination entirely. I think I addressed that earlier, (may not have e.e) but I don't blame you for not readin' all these megas.
I can't remember where that was said at all, but if it was hidden somewhere in the OP I'll try look for it and remove/reword it to keep accurate.
When the Sudaruska came out, I was happy to see that there was something to balance out the weaker/normal damage - that its range was greater than DA/GF.
After extensive testing, I found out they have the same exact hitbox, and that DA/GF/SS all have hitboxes that extend further than their graphic.
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Q2: Aye, never had any problems with that myself. My Khoro is +10 ofc, but no other CTR bonuses. If the Suda's charge is longer then I couldn't say, but the Khoro can get in with some very slightly time to spare, assuming you pre-switch and start charging before the vortex det's. Haven't actually tried it with the DA yet as the projectiles are more awkward to fit into the crowd, and the main damage swing involves you being in their faces; I like the Khoro charge for vortexes becasue it lets me stand beack and hit, but this is also because I tend to do this to mobs that hit me hard, such as Mech Knights, Lumbers etc, on the basis that my shield might as well be my forehead for all the good it does against those guys.
@ bolded: You can lay down the DA's projectile at swing range and it'll work, pretty sure. That aside, if you tend to charge attack vs mechas and lumbers, you deal more damage to them using DA- whether you're swinging or charging 9_9;
I have full fallen atm... and its great! MAX on my suda... but i think i like dodging a lot... so.. my Goal!
*Meurcuial Set
*Sudaruska! Asi low... or i'll level my asi med kamarin
*Iron slug/Venom Veiler
*The other of the above two if i get a weapon slot...
*CTR trinket
*CTR/Damage trinket
This is so i can dodge like crazy... when there's no lag...
~Tsu
heavy demo set
grintovec
electron vortex
shivermist buster
swiftstrike buckler
Heavy demo will work fine until you get some trinky upgrades; the damage is nice, but not as important as fast-action with this build. The ASi/bombCTR is what it's all about, you can afford to drop a wee bit of damage bonus until then and never really miss it. Grintovec might hurt though, you'll wanna get that bad boy upgraded!
*Meurcuial Set
*Sudaruska! Asi low... or i'll level my asi med kamarin
*Iron slug/Venom Veiler
*The other of the above two if i get a weapon slot...
*CTR trinket
*CTR/Damage trinket
VV? Guess that'd work to reduce defences, could really hit them hard as nails then, but does it really do enough to pay off losing out on a control bomb?
instead of a control bomb i have mercurial... which'll boost me just enough to dodge better...
Its not like i USE control bombs anyhow...
and let me revise that list...
*Meurcuial Set
*Sudaruska! Asi low... or i'll level my asi med kamarin
*Iron slug/Venom Veiler
*The other of the above two if i get a weapon slot...
*ASI trinket
*Damage trinket
This way i'll have max on suda, high on slug, and a nifty ability to dodge!
Night!
~Tsu
Mmm, I like control bombs for more than keepin' safe; vortex allows you to clump them all together to get a free swing/charge in on them all at once, w/o any worry about missing them or them dodging. The shock effect just adds some more damage on top. The freeze is purely just a pause button though, and by far the least important weapon on the loadout.
i've found i dont hit the pause button... i just move... and i'm quite good at it...or, at least i was tonight... running straight at puppies w/o getting hurt...
So i think setting a massive debuff and then smashing the crud out of them will work wonders...
~Tsu
Pause button's good for groupwork, especially when things start to go south, but never thought of usin' VV as an alternative to Shiver. I don't actually use shiver that much, I just keep it handy as a justincase, but VV would be as regularly used as the vortex; it's somethin' I'll definitely try :)
If my party gets to crazy with the swords, i'll just support their nooby attacks by spamming the VV... >:3
I just got the 2* and the only wish i have... I would love to have the 5* up the poison (Other status for the others) up to Med...
You could; this build perfectly accepts Troika or Sealed Swords and will do fine. As for Triglav vs. Suda, you might find...well, people don't like it much due to the way that it freezes, cancelling the KB that's generally crucial to any troika style, and this build especially.
It should be noted that I have tried this build with fast swords, and although it rocks the socks having high dps and crazy fast swings, with the lack of KB, the lack of swing arc, and the lack of shields, you find yourself either getting pummelled into the ground, shielding too much and have it breakin' often, resulting in no shield and/or using the bombs/gun far more than the sword, thus defeating the point. It doesn't really suit fast swords at all, due to the lack of defensive capabilities. I'm sure someone could make it work though, with a few build tweaks or an unusual playing style.
that the 2nd swing dinnae ( ;p ) freeze anymore? Cuz the suda dinnae ( ;p [again]) stun anymore.
The charge still causes freeze, but the point of the troika charges is to cauase an enormous KB and send everythin' to the next room, since the recovery time on it is huge, leaving you vulnerable to anythin' next to you. Somethin' that gets frozen will get stuck in place next to you and be able to attack you while you're recoverin'. The same issue applied with the 2nd swing, but thas no the case anymore, which I honestly think works out better for it, unless they could rig it so that the freeze applies after the KB.
@OP: I love the idea of this build. However, I'd think that a somewhat more mobile gun would be more useful. I use a similar build, but i'm only in t2, with 3* items. I mainly use the Kamarin, and I love it. I can't wait to make it into a Sudaruska. Anyway back on topic, I use a firotech alchemer, and I think that it complements the slow sword style nicely. It deals elemental, which is effective against 2 out of 3 of the tower types, which are the main thing a swordsman would be using his gun on, and is neutral against polyps. Either way it deals good damage, you still have mobility while using it, and the fire status effect is, as you said, great for adding a little consistent damage. I don't know how the magma driver stacks up against the volcanic pepperbox, but I know that I prefer the alchemer's dynamics hands down over those of the autogun.
Wow, old post bump~
Anyhoo, I went with the Pepperbox for teh "ohko" vibe. The pepperbox charge is one of the highest dps outputs in the entire game, and being normal type never has a penalty against it, meaning it ravages turrets, large mobs (lumbers/trojans), groups and bosses alike. Anything I don't like that is tricky to Suda to death can be destroyed with Pepperbox. It may not be mobile, but that's why the other weapons have shock, stun and freeze; the weapons themselves are restrictive, but enact a lot of crowd control to allow freedom while using said slower weapons.
Alchemers are great, and I love using my Storm Driver, but I just never saw it as a fit for the vibe of this build. The damage and spread is nice, but it just doesn't compare to a flat-out pounding. That, and it's elemental damage, while I personally prefer normal type, as this build was made specifically to be a "can be used anywhere" loadout.
That's why I went with it, anyways~
a nice way to avoid being hit after the second swing freeze would simply be attacking the monster from behind, or the sides, speciall for darkfang thwackers (although it sucks for mecha knights and giant lichen colonies when they charge). as for the charge attack, do it from a nice distance, or from the side/back too.
Freeze is only Triglav; Suda stuns and allows teh KB. So all the monsters get flung across the room, then stunned so that you have more than enough time to walk away while they're slowly waddling towards you.
As for lichens...Pepperbox charge sorts them right out, I don't go anywhere near them with swords~
I hate reminding people this, it's so depressing.
A an avid pepperbox user myself I can confirm that there is no "anti-knockback" that goes with the pepperbox.
Instead you have to run up to enemies with the charge, and when the guns sprite is right up in their face, you release it so that almost every bullet in the charge (two or three might miss) goes and delivers it's fiery payload and knocks them back.
By the way, normal attack is pretty good but it has no knockback whatsoever.
P.S. I've been planing to update the gunning guide on the wiki with his but I just haven't got around to it.
There used to be a suction effect with Pepperbox that got switched to KB when the gun buff happened (after I made this thread and after I took a hiatus for a few months). I did like the suction as it let me pick out select targets, such as healers and bring them to be all beam me up scotty style. Now with the KB though, I just get up in their face and unleash~
@Darkbrady: you mentioned that your Khorovod does more net damage than the Acheron due to hitting several targets for high damage, and implied that the knockback makes it safer. You only compared it to the Acheron's normal swings, but you forgot what makes them famous - their charges. I've used my Acheron to OHKO whole packs of Gremlins and still had time and distance to do it again. It offers much the same safety as Khorovod for much higher damage.
A lot of it depends on your playstyle of the build. I use it in a very hybrid-y fashion and not so "constant attack mashing". I'd switch between weapons a lot and take time to drop bombs. When you do that, the situation differs; for example, having a big group frozen or chasing you; a quick, wide swipe from a Suda would hit them all, hard and leave you time to continue what you were doing. With an Acheron you'd only hit one or two and have far less KB. Charging wouldn't be conductive in that scenario. Usually, given the chance to unleash a charge at a frozen target of choice, I'd prefer the Suda for the massive KB and the stun. Hefty damage doesnae hurt, but it lets me do what I want. I use the brandish charges more of a method of firing out shots in all directions to create space for myself.
Not to say that you're wrong at all, just that certain playstyles make use of things differently.
lol Mika, hard to believe anyone could look at the OP here and bring themselves to read every post; a lot of mega-posts here, I'd never be able to read all these posts from scratch! Good stuff though :)