Spiral Knights - Gun DPS factoring Reloads?

Gun DPS factoring Reloads?

5 replies [Last post]

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 11:23

Darkbrady

Been wonderin' lately, has anyone ever clocked up and compared the two Gun DPSs against each other?

We all know that reload-dodging is generally the safer route to go, since it locks you in slower movement while reloading and unable to shoot/shield, but ignoring safety etc (let's assume you go blast around rambo style and not worry about safety) is dodging the reload actually higher or lower DPS?

I mean considering that, let's take an Alchemer for example, to skip the reload you need to wait till the gun is back at the hip, which takes just under half as long as a reload I'd say, and you need to do that between every shot; a single screw up forces a reload. By that point, is it not just faster to spam shots and deal with the reload then spam some more?

I've not done any real testing myself on the issue; has anyone else? Is reload dodging actually faster/slower than firing as intended, as well as being safer?

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 11:36

Somenubcake

yes we

yes we have
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/28726
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/23492

the issue of being safe really depends on how you play. if you are one of those people who don't really pay attention to positioning, then shoot pause shoot will be the safest way. if you do pay attention to your position relative to other monsters, then you can totally get away with unload and reload without getting hit at all.

EDIT:
a special note about using alchemers for unloading vs pausing: if you want to consistently spawn ricochets inside your target, it would be better to unload due to the fact that you don't have to re-aim after every pause (more re-aiming = more chances for error, which will lead to less dps)

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 11:41

Bopp

I would love to see this

This has been discussed many times (for example in the original "Ask a Master Gunslinger" thread), but I have never seen real data. It would be great to have such data. Here are two obstacles, which should be surmountable.

First, the wiki doesn't even have damage figures for many of the guns. We need to get that done, before we can compute DPS.

Second, the speed testing procedure for full clips is very straightforward --- you just keep firing full clips as fast as possible, and see how many you can finish in a minute, say. The testing procedure for full-clip-minus-one seems a bit harder to standardize, because more skill is required, to get maximum speed without ever accidentally firing that last shot.

Edit: Thanks for those data links, Somenubcake. They're a start.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 15:37

The-Rawrcake

The thing about testing that

The thing about testing that is that there are already guidelines on when to and when not to unload your clip for guns without even needing to look at DPS. Can someone think of when you would think unload vs. don't unload in a PvE situation that does not already have a guideline of what to do in that situation?

I guess one would be a boss where you would try to optimize DPS and the boss doesn't try to hurt you so no survivability needed.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 15:46

Darkbrady

Well just in general when

Well just in general when you're circle strafing a room popping Alch shots; nothing's hitting you (either chasing you and not reaching, or is otherwise preoccupied with party members) and you're wondering whether to unload-reload or just shoot-pause. When surviving isn't an issue the DpS starts to crop up in your mind.

Altough if your point was that in situations like that it's really not enough to matter, I feel you; just circlin' around a room won't matter much whether you kill them in 14 or 16 seconds, short of horribly bad luck or coincidental projectiles/lag, but one does begin to wonder which would be more worthwhile to do.

Or as you say, perhaps Snarby, the R.Twins, Vana's Mask... Won't be gettin' hit back by them and you're workin' in a limited time frame; you wanna optimise your dps output on them.
unload-reloading feels natural to me; spam your bullets them reload, spam then reload. Shoot-pausing feels weirdly unnatural, having to hold yourself back and stop between shots; I fully understand the concept, but just the actual actions behind it feels unnatural :(

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 15:56

The-Rawrcake

Vana's mask already has a

Vana's mask already has a guideline. Shoot-pause. This is because of the projectiles from the circling fire orbs can still hit you while mask it watered / split off little dark red fire orbs. If you watered a giant dark red orbitting fire orb, it can also spawn right before it smacks you. Best to have time to shield it and not reload.

Roarmulus twins, I would say this is a good situation to know what is better DPS, but things like a scuttlebot could stealth attack you but that is way to noticable. So yeah, this is a good situation to know.

SL Snarbolax is guidelined. Shoot-pause. unless you managed to get both snarbolaxes stunned by the bell. And if you are talking regular snarbolax, that won't really matter he dies in like two hits anyway ><

Other guidelines:

1. You know that two bullets / three bullets or whatever is enough to kill the enemy, you unload-reload
2. Survivability, this is always a shoot-pause and takes priority to most situations but not all
3. Need burst damage because there is a short time of vulnerability (one example is a mecha knight after shielding). If survivability is necessary, see number 2 regardless.

There are also more but I did not sit down and write the book yet :3

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Gun DPS factoring Reloads?