Blitz is exceptionally great against gremlin and undead. Blitz charge is able to one-shot them even without damage type advantage.
Though, it'll be a mess when I blitz gremlin bomber because bombs fly everywhere from him. And it's hard to blitz kats at tier 3. ;x
Also, on knockdown/canceling attack charge part, theoretically all guns have potentially this chance if you apply enough damage to them on certain amount of time. Some certain enemy charge attack makes them easier to get knocked down as well, ex: shooting on zombie wanting to puke their rainbows.
Gunslinger PvE Guide: How useful is x gun when I upgrade it to 5*?
Fri, 02/10/2012 - 05:33
#52
Blitz Needle
Fri, 02/10/2012 - 06:37
#53
Well there are some things
Well there are some things that get knocked down from just taking damage, like barking wolvers.
A blitz charge or callahan bullets, for example, have a few more things where they can knock things down.
Gremlins being one for Callahan, and also biting wolvers are two examples.
The thing about these is that they are unreliable. I have been in groups and at certain depths where gremlins are not knocked down.
After depth 26, I noticed wolvers no longer were knocked down by Callahan other than barking.
So unless there would be some really hardcore knockdown research, I am shaky on what else to say besides stuff having the ability to knock down things. I'll maybe be more specific, thank you.
Fri, 02/10/2012 - 16:09
#54
on knockdown
Things get knocked down reliably until the 2nd half of a tier.
Though, I'm not sure if that only applied to t3 or if it happened at any tier. Can't really test right now, but for example, doing shoot-pause, you can knockdown-lock a wolver in say, depths 19-22 (each shot will knock down). After that, you'd need to do 2 shots in order to knock down a wolver.
Fri, 02/10/2012 - 13:13
#55
some useless info.... that probably you won't need to reply >_>
Damage bonus takes part on knocking down. Do you have max damage bonus?
Based on my experience, at Depth 26 fighting vs Mecha Knight.
With med sword damage bonus, glacius charge can't cancel his charge attack. I am forced to shield right after releasing charge.
With vh/max sword damage bonus (forgot exactly), glacius charge can cancel his charge attack, and I can continue a few swings after charge. However, next depth 27/28 (forgot too), I can't cancel their attack charge even with max sword damage bonus.
Fri, 02/10/2012 - 14:50
#56
Are you sure it is based on
Are you sure it is based on damage? It was depth 27 and 28 that the wolvers stopped being knocked down for me, similar to your depth 27 and 28 experience.
I do have very high damage bonus though which might be comparible to that sword with your sword bonuses? It's hard to really test this unless someone purposely tried to I think.
Fri, 02/10/2012 - 15:08
#57
Not damage?
Try depth.
I'm fairly sure that's it.
Fri, 02/10/2012 - 15:16
#58
I hear that
I hear that knockdown/interrupt is based on damage in a certain amount of time. Like, 20% of monster hp within 3 seconds. But the point of it being depth relate is almost the same, as monsters grow in strength each floor down.
Fri, 02/10/2012 - 15:18
#59
I'm pretty sure its related
I'm pretty sure its related to depth. However the callahan's second bullet can still knockdown for a few extra depths than the first bullet
Fri, 02/10/2012 - 23:57
#60
+1
that's a nice guide for gunners, i hope you finish it.
Sat, 02/11/2012 - 09:07
#61
To my knowledge knockdown is
To my knowledge knockdown is based on damage dealt in a specific time window.
Sat, 02/11/2012 - 16:43
#62
also....
knockdown based on party member amount too, I meant monster max hp (which also means deeper depth = more max hp). Doing solo is easier to knock everything down. Btw my example was with 4 party members.
Sat, 02/11/2012 - 21:15
#63
Ninja'd section 5
Ninja'd section 5 (shoot-pause / unload-reload) on the guide.
Open for your editing - post any feedback below!
Sun, 02/12/2012 - 11:35
#64
@The-RawrcakeNice job on
@The-Rawrcake
Good job on section 5.
Personally I usually execute full combo and rarely get hit during recovery.
For me, so called "shoot-pause" is rather a plan B, which I apply if something really goes wrong... or when I'm surrounded by horde of mad devilites.
Fri, 02/24/2012 - 20:53
#65
Added section 8, about
Added section 8, about sidearms. Open for editing. It is probably missing stuff etc.
Guide is not updated for the missions update regarding Pepperbox and Antiguas yet.
Still need to finish the armor section adding on the new / free player friendly armor.
Currently not playing this game because of two things: 1. Network lag, and 2. The people behind the game. Great game, not so great people working behind it. Disagree? Open your eyes, look at things like shadow keys. Think they quit being greedy? Look at prestige. etc. etc. etc.
But I figured I could finish a part of this guide.
Fri, 02/24/2012 - 21:24
#66
just wondering
From my experience I feel that it is far easier and safer to use my nova driver over the magnus in fiend stratums.
Anyone else feel the same?
Fri, 02/24/2012 - 21:30
#67
Yes, Trying.
My all time
Yes, Trying.
My all time favorite gun for devilite levels is Hail Driver. The freeze is great for kiting them solo, and helps you get off more attacks.
Split bullets just compliment the freeze and damage done on packs of devilites.
How it works, they dodge into the bullet. Sometimes even don't dodge the bullets. Hail is great for hitting wings as well as locking them down. Amazing for kats, I prefer it over Callahan on trojans since I can get off two shots instead of one as well as clip splits. If I freeze trojy, even more damage.
I never use any other gun in Dark Cities besides Hail Driver, but I prefer to keep that somehwere out of the guide, because someone can manipulate a Polaris or piercing gun to take out the Devilites quicker / more effectively and such, trying to avoid bias and all that. But I might consider it.
Sat, 02/25/2012 - 02:10
#68
outdated
You need to update the calahan/argent peacemaker to full shadow/elemental damage because of the recent update.
just so ya know.
Sat, 02/25/2012 - 02:11
#69
This is a good and detailed
This is a good and detailed guide.
Hopefully there will be more people willing to try out gunning afterwards.
Sat, 02/25/2012 - 04:21
#70
Great Guide
Gives a good general overview for newcomers to understand what each gun is used for and some good tips overall.
Some notable things to mention: Valiance bullets are fast enough to hit dodgers, and it's the only gun that can deliver point-blank knockback without charge (making it incredibly useful in clutch situations), the Valiance charge attack has huge knockback, comparable to Leviathan charge attack knockback. When using Catalyzers it can be in your interest to shoot twice, then charge for the 3rd shot to avoid reloading since the charge is so quick, plus you get some extra damage. The Callahan charge attack has much more range than it's normal shots. The Pulsars charge takes a fairly long while to charge, so it's not quite as handy without CTR UVs/trinkets to use when mobs get too close for comfort. Biohazard has better DPS against a single target without poison compared to the Umbra, and it's charge attack makes it a bit better in groups larger than 3. It also seems that all charge attacks that can inflict a status effect has a higher chance to cause the effect than regular shots (including Catalyzers). The Blitz Needle's charge attack is very strong, when using full Deadshot and a CTR Trinket it dispatches Zombies in FSC faster than any other gun (using it at point blank, keep in mind), and as far as I can tell the speed of the bullets are the same charged/non-charged.
Sat, 02/25/2012 - 10:34
#71
To maximize the damage of
To maximize the damage of guns, specifically alchemers (and Magnus?) because of their small clip, you must use a trick that I didn't find in this guide.
Normally you need to pause for a short moment after shield canceling before shooting again or else you'll reload. To circumvent this pause after shooting/canceling, you must switch weapons then immediately switch back. To switch weapons instantly, you must have have your weapons bound to individual keys. If you time everything well, you'll achieve a higher damage rate than shoot-pause or unload-reload.
To reiterate: shoot Gun, shield-cancel, swap to X, swap back to Gun, shoot, etc.
Sat, 02/25/2012 - 11:16
#72
Hmm, interesting Golfdinger.
Hmm, interesting Golfdinger. I'll try that out.
Sun, 02/26/2012 - 00:02
#73
Errrr I think that's more
Errrr I think that's more leaning towards the exploit side of thing instead of intended use.
Sun, 02/26/2012 - 00:08
#74
i equiped all 4 of my
i equiped all 4 of my alchemers and tried the change weapon thing. u fire so fast it's not even funny and u never have to reload. i just shot, pause a tiny bit, spacebar to change to next weapon, repeat
Sun, 02/26/2012 - 01:00
#75
@LomaseAny unintended use
Any unintended, beneficial use is an "exploit". Shield cancelling itself was an "exploit" when first discovered; it has since arguably become an intended use through the dev's acceptance of it.
Sun, 02/26/2012 - 10:39
#76
Hmm, I equipped my Hail and
Hmm, I equipped my Hail and Nova and switched between the two and noticed how fast you could fire. It's pretty interesting.
The issue that you might run into is using up multiple weapon slots for one purpose.
Sun, 02/26/2012 - 11:29
#77
I really don't see any
I really don't see any difference in attack speed at VH ASI. Shield cancel doesn't do anything for a Driver at VH ASI. You can't switch weapons until you can fire again, and the small delay in switching weapons is about the same as the delay before you can fire again without reloading.
I have attack on LMB, Magma Driver on 'E', and Voltedge on 'Q'. Doing LMB -> Q -> E. Putting Nova Driver on 'Q' and swapping back and forth does seem a little bit faster than normal but is not really worth it.
Sun, 02/26/2012 - 15:56
#78
@Otaia
I have 2 Callahans and I can show you how fast you can shoot by swapping. It's not really noticeable with alchemers, but I'm sure there's a bit of a boost if you can get the timing right.
Thu, 03/29/2012 - 17:17
#79
Completely changed this
Completely changed this guide, took out a lot of the stuffing.
Makes it smaller, and more to the purpose of directing players who have questions about specific guns. Easier to keep up to date, and easier to scroll through.
In the future, I might add other stuff as I used to have.
Open for editing.
Ask any questions if you want.
Thu, 03/29/2012 - 23:08
#80
eheh
Lovely guide but few bits need to be added/corrected.
Elemental Guns;
Magma Driver: Magma Driver does hard DPS ammoung alchemers but as a status alchemer it does 30% less raw bullet damage but due the proc it'll surpass others most of the time..The proc goes up 50+~ in t2 100+~ in t3 every 2 secs for 8 secs it can apply on multiple targets and has super decent proc rate!!
Note: Proc damage depends on monsters fire resistance in some stratas you'll encounter fire affined monsters (such as FSC) that can't be ignited but your bullets will still do full elemental damage which will be equvelent to Hail and Storm driver.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W-EJCG1dw8 < Magma in action
Hail Driver: ricochet breaks it's own freeze proc that might get frustrating time to time.
Argent Peacemaker: will NOT outdps magma and nova if target can be ignited even tho you'll need to put extra effort and will lack area of effect damage because the hitbox only 1 block remember as an elemental gun you'll pick on Undeads and Constructs which will come in big groups most of the time.
Shadow Guns;
Umbra Driver: Charge will 1 shot the menders without triggering dodge ability. Perfect for 'overall usage' in both pve and pvp
Biohazard:Has better dps then other shadow guns also have better aoe utility specially helpful in t3 with the menders arround due it's decent poison proc and good damage output it'll kill menders with 1 clip(3 bullet) with 2 elite trueshot module without triggering the shield it charge will not hinder your movement ability much even with med charge bonus from level 10 heat alone!
Charge explosions doesnt suffer more than 30% of regular shot damage because it does two times of regular shot damage if had it benifit from extra damage it'd be overpowered with 2 or more catalyzer user
Note: Talk to other gunslingers with biohazard take their opinion watch a movie or two from youtube some gunners swing on Umbra some on Bio find your gamestyle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krJtNczQ5zU < Abathur Biohazard & Blitz in action
Sentenza: same as AP extra effort for barely equvelent output with umbra..biohazard better for jellies and menders, Umbra better for regular gremlins and fewer jellies.
Note: i wouldn't spend money on this one as a gunner.
Ps: Harry Callahan <3
Thu, 03/29/2012 - 23:15
#81
Dunno, Disagree with Regalya
Dunno, Disagree with Regalya on a few things.
I find it hard to believe a biohazard will out dps an umbra. I really do. Are you counting ricochets?
All guns, minus callahan, will proc dodge. Doesn't matter how you aim it so they dodge into it, bullets will proc the dodge. Actually, if you miss a callahan shot, enemies will still dodge. It just somehow is able to hit before the dodge proc.
Sent/ap does the "easiest" single target damage. A skilled alchemer user will do more damage, but sent/ap has a lower skill requirement to do good with it. If you don't get ricochets, ap/sent will do a nice amount of damage over alchemers.
Sentenza is the better shadow gun for dealing with gremlins. Fast shots, multiple shots in a clip. This lets you proc a dodge and shoot for bullets before reloading, taking advantage of the dodge cooldown.
Biohazard is only better than umbra in jelly hordes if you are able to gather enough jellies for explosions to matter. Otherwise, umbra will win in dps. Jellies are easy to clips, and almost mindless shooting into a pack will guarantee ricocheting bullets.
Fri, 03/30/2012 - 05:44
#82
Regalya, most of your
Regalya, most of your information seems to be on observation and not actual tests.
Note the difference between "AoE" and "Single target" damage as well.
Also, some of it I included.
Fri, 03/30/2012 - 10:44
#83
@Demonicsothe
If you talking
@Demonicsothe
If you talking about taking advantage of shouldershot to get double hits then alchemers suprasses apart from that bio will come up top due clipsize/damage diffrence
Dodge? whats with it as a gunner you learn to shot 1 block behind the gremlins in earlyer tiers dodge hardly ever been an issue for an avarage+ gunner :o
Antigua line doesn't shine over Alchemer line in any useful aspect.
I highly disaggree that sentenza better shadowgun for dealing with gremlins sentanza will give them chance to heal,shield and resurrect others while Umbra charge and bio clips will not.
For bio vs umbra dps me and most of my other veteran gunner friends find that bio dps surpasses umbra.
@The-Rawcake the test resaults will not be so diffrent since we're testing those weapon while using them on diffrent stuations "on paper" tests doesn't allways apply the encounters you get in clockworks mobs arent training dummies thats why many wiki and other source datas aint accurute when it come to the practical use.
Fri, 03/30/2012 - 10:52
#84
/shrug
I'm willing to believe
/shrug
I'm willing to believe a bio will out dps umbra, if you provide numbers. Total shots per minute. Or total clips per minute, whichever you want to test. All with the same bonus and on the same depth. Preferably, a T3 depth/d28 to have the most accurate numbers.
Then we can theory craft about ricochets and dodges after we have numbers.
Fri, 03/30/2012 - 11:15
#85
Don't have exact numbers but
Don't have exact numbers but it should be like Umbra has 10-15% more damage per shot but Bio is 10-15% faster and has 3 shot clip instead of 2 plus decent poison proc which is extra 10% damage.
Fri, 03/30/2012 - 11:26
#86
Still need numbers. Not that
Still need numbers. Not that I don't believe what you said is true. It could very well be. But numbers won't lie. Take the antigua vs alchemer test rawr put up last week. Most people assumed ap would deal more dps against single targets. But the test showed that with a somewhat decent amount of ricochet, nova wins in damage output.
So, numbers. Even if you want to argue clip size, real damage numbers cannot be argued.
Fri, 03/30/2012 - 11:34
#87
We'll have to ask someone
We'll have to ask someone else for the numbers because i cba to run tests just to get numbers on both guns nowadays.
Fri, 03/30/2012 - 12:38
#88
Could you please post this on
Is this on the wiki page?
I know we have one for swords, not sure about guns. http://wiki.spiralknights.com/User:Jdavis/Swords#Elemental_Swords
Fri, 03/30/2012 - 14:23
#89
I have had bad experience
I have had bad experience with the wiki people in how they got mad at me before and called me out on what I was saying being total hypocrites. Not only that, you have it open for editing from everyone on the wiki, I think... right?
No offense to Regalya but I want to use you as an example. I am not meaning to attack you or anything, I understand that a raw observation might tell you something such as this example: "because this gun shoots 3 bullets and umbra shoots 2 in every clip, Bio must be better." First of all, take into account split bullets from the alchemers. In addition, you are making up false numbers such as 10-15%.
Again, Regalya, I see you do your own logic behind what you are saying and I am not meaning to offend you, just use you as an example.
Regalya is stating information that could either be somewhat true or terribly false and he is making assumptions based on observations without any support. If Regalya could edit my wiki thing and add in false information, guess who has their name tagged on the guide and who is going to be responsible for false information? Most likely me :/
Though I am not 100% sure how the wiki works. If there is some way that I can lock my guide, then maybe I can create my own little page or whatever like Bopp's guide.
Then it can go the other way. Someone can edit it for good. For example, if I was to make Bopp's swordsman guide better, I would edit out "or handguns" because no you do not always focus on having specialty damage type for handguns. That is a misleading two words in a parenthesis. Example of this situation is Supernova vs. Polaris, as well as Neutralizer vs. Biohazard.
Any feedback on this is nice. Until then, I will be working on this forum thread.
Fri, 03/30/2012 - 16:01
#90
None taken don't worryMy
None taken don't worry
My assumptions coming from gaming 'experience' for example i am hitting 100 to jelly or a gremlin lets say in depth 16 with a biohazard then hitting 115 with umbra with same equipment and so i can say hmm umbra does 15% more damage then bio it 'seems' but on wiki it might say umbra does 30% more per bullet.
in a same way i can test the weapons speed and come up with roundabout number aswell it might have been my current gear that favor one gun from other also i can ask to other people like me who use the weapons for quiet some time how their weapons fare and we can have general opinions from ingame usage instead of some static paperwork dummy numbers that doesn't allways fit to ingame encounters which might lead people to think the gun worse or better then it's actual performance.
Game does not run on paper entirely you need to try and see how it goes sometime and i'll say that again me and my other gunner friends who owns/ed both umbra and bio thinks Bio>Umbra regardless what number you came up with from paper.
Sat, 03/31/2012 - 15:39
#91
well "paper" numbers count
well "paper" numbers count for something. Nobody can just magically come up with numbers like "15% more damage" on their own. I realise that we don't attack training dummies 24/7, but there has to be something out there to consider that is the truth. Though it may be a test on a training dummy, at least it is a truthful "paper" number. So you should consider it as "the truth on a training dummy"
Your observations, however, would just be considered "false observations".
"The truth on a training dummy" vs. "false observations" --- which would people prefer in a guide?
Have you and your gunner friends had an alchemer ever? Have you learned how to position the split bullets?
If one would do raw observations, the general answer I would expect is "awmg awmg alchemers numbers errrrvrywhere!!!" not "awmg awmg gun that shoots 3 slow moving bullets with no real AoE potential on their own at all!"
Fri, 03/30/2012 - 16:46
#92
Don't get pissed lad ;)
I
Don't get pissed lad ;)
I don't get it how did you accur that me and my friends asumptions is totally false right on the bat..
they don't sound off the chart are they? be little more objective.
Sat, 03/31/2012 - 00:58
#93
I was doing the Jelly king
I was doing the Jelly king mission and brought the umbra & bio. This is results vs slimes on level 14 with no gun damage bonuses.
Biohazard - 63 x 3 = 189
Umbra - 79 x 2 = 158
That's a difference of 31, or about 20%.
If you get one ricochet on a slime, that umbra number jumps up to 237.
I used to bring the biohazard around when it first came out even though I stopped using that charge. (seriously, too much of a gimmick)
Cool, more dps. I thought. Well the bullets are too slow for slimes and gremlins to be reliable from afar. Getting close was a pain.
Gremlins and slimes show up in groups very frequently, so that umbra bounce was useful, even when I didn't know about shoulder shots.
In my opinion, the umbra is better than the biohazard.
---
On a related note, Polaris vs alchemer.
The 3 shot, more dps argument can be applied to the polaris' near shots that don't cause knockback. You can do near shots and be in a very similar situation as the above. However, the way many undead and constructs work, I found this to be practical. When things started to group up, I'd switch to expanded shots. I found the polaris to be more verstile than my storm driver. (However, I did not know about shoulder shots at the time, now I just use the AP or a sword.)
Sat, 03/31/2012 - 17:05
#94
x
Editing out what I said,
x
Editing out what I said, sorry Regalya I am going to stop before I possibly get myself in trouble. As you said, I shouldn't get so mad over this.
I'll just move on, and we can both go about our own businesses in different threads and whatnots.
Fri, 04/06/2012 - 19:18
#95
So for newbies?
So what is the first gun I should be working on making? I am currently using a Prismatech and Shadowtech gun. Should I just continue upgrading these, or am I better off using another gun?
Fri, 04/06/2012 - 19:28
#96
Those are perfectly fine
Those are perfectly fine Ezekius. In fact, I believe those are the only accessible guns for new players, besides the blaster line. You might consider changing those guns to the ap/sent equivalent in the future if you enjoy the antigua mechanics better. But for now, those guns are good for you.
Fri, 04/06/2012 - 19:53
#97
cool
Ok, seemed like those 2 covered all mobs, so I could switch when I do crap damage with 1 gun.
Next question is armour. I am currently using Wolver set, so do I continue down this armour line is there better to get? I also have no idea what to do for shields--but I have some owl shield right now.
Fri, 04/06/2012 - 20:06
#98
Hmm. Are you aiming to begin
Hmm. Are you aiming to begin the game as a gunslinger? If so, hold on to your wolver, at it seems to be your only armour at the moment. Once you have the resources to buy a piece of gunslinger gear, I suggest you do. They start at 3*. So if you can find a cheap (12k-16k cr) piece on the aucton house, buy it. Otherwise, complete the missions to access hall of heroes and buy the recipe from there, then craft using your own energy.
Owlite is a good shield for elemental. You should also receive a free defender, a piercing shield, from the missions. Are you in T2? T2 deals specialized damage, so switch off between the shields to defend against piercing and elemental sources.
Sat, 04/07/2012 - 05:18
#99
Well, Hall of Heroes recipes
Well, Hall of Heroes recipes are not tradable, so that would not work. You could see what the prices are for just the recipes, not items are on the AH, or do some Basil runs in tier 2.
Sat, 04/07/2012 - 06:06
#100
Nyan nyan nyan nyan....
@Ezekius
Guns tend to need quite a lot of damage to back it up, but that does happen eventually. For example, 2* alchemers are hopeless, 3* are meh, get to 5* and they'll really start to shine. Swords are best for players that are just starting, since it provides enough damage, but once guns get past 3 stars they'll start becoming quite useful, I find.
In light of recent interactions, I found the thread I made back when catalyzers first came out.
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/15403
tl;dr:
- Answers the length of time: each charge lasts for 20 seconds.
- Tagging a smaller enemy --> sending it into a boss/larger group of enemies is probably a viable tactic for catalyzers. (In the last post, I mention the vana fight, but no, it's really only a viable tactic in practice vs Royal Jelly and maybe Twins).
------
The main use of a Catalyzer's normal shots is that they will detonate charged orbs created by this gun's charge attack.
Since they're affected by things like damage trinkets, they offer the potential for higher DPS vs 1-2 enemies than charging.