So now plenty of recipes are avaliable on hall of heroes. The basil market has been ruined, ooo can now remove Recipes secion in AH.
They just took away chance for extra money for mid ranged F2P players who could resell some recipes to make their runs more profitable.
i hate my life. Now i am supposed to GRIND for Cr. D:
All in the name of philosophy "The poorer the players is the higher propability of him buying CE with real money" great OOO
Counterpoint:
In exchange you can also jump ahead to profitable levels through the missions to make your 10 mist gain more crowns. Also many of those recipes that people were selling were bought by F2Pers.
I noticed that as well, fortunately I normally stock things I want to use in the future, so I have just learnt the ones I wanted, and am now just selling off everything else. It was however a "nice" surprise to find out I had 126k cr of product that was suddenly only worth cost, and after crown inflation is added its not been a good day.
@Sir-Didymus the levels are not more "profitable", yield more cr per ce perhaps... but you are making the stand mistake of thinking because you can get more crowns, your more wealthy, you not as EVERYONE can get more crowns so you are as wealthy relative to anyone else as you were. And a side business has been closed down.
I'm actually not bothered that recipes are more available. This also doesn't count the fact that there are no five-star recipes for hall of heroes yet.
Honestly I thought the hall of heroes would be more helpful to new players trying to progress. *shrug*
Never used recipes as a big source of income myself, usually sold them in guild at cost. Experienced long time players were already skipping the non-profitable levels, this gives new players without a lot of friends the same chance to start at profitable levels. I assume that this will be one of those things that could be argued about all day long with points that favor each side.
Recipe sales were nice but eh, it wasn't a crucial part of the game for me, so I won't miss it too much.
What bothers me about it is that Basil is now pretty much worthless. I mean, what's the point of even having him now?
@Sir-Didymus they were already doin it BUT in odrer to do that SOMEONE had to reach terminal and start inviting them. Now they can do it without any hassle at all.
And recipes not being crucial part of the game. When you read guides how to make money, ther it is! Recipes reselling! What are the other ways to earn money? Im not talking about lotteries like ragecrafting and punching things since its random and it cant be considered as a income source.
There is recipes resellng (or was), selling mats, pure crown gringing. Now when recipes market is going down (and will with relase of T3 missions) there will be only 2 things left. What will be next? Materials bound on accquiring? Will you say then "meh materials are not crucial thing of game"?
There's a lot to love in this update, imo, and a lot of it for f2p players. For one thing, the 'hall of heroes' provides the steady availability of common, desirable recipes, which previously had to be dived for, or purchased from the AH. True, the market for reselling these recipes is going to dramatically change, but f2p players starting the game will no longer have to grind levels for the chance of catching one at a Basil, or pay extra at the AH from someone reselling. For all the f2pers NOT in the recipe market, this is a huge plus--and I would add, any cr inflation in the in-game economy doesn't effect the prices of these recipes since they are delivered from an NPC. Lastly, on the topic of energy, yes, energy prices are currently going up as demand for ce goes up in response to the introduction of new content--and they will go back down again whenever the next promo rolls out. Probably some Spring thing (I request bunny ears).
The dynamics of the in-game economy are changing, and this effects how YOU made money--just like the introduction of UVs, just like the binding patch, just like the introduction of accessories, featured auctions, should I go on? Sorry to hear you have to find something new to vendor, but seriously, take off the tinfoil hat and enjoy the new content while things rebalance. You'll find something else to sell.
Is it just me, or do all the F2P players want OOO to go bankrupt?
Seriously, players buying CE is a GOOD thing. After all, you can thank all the P2P players for any gear above 3* (ya, I'm talking about that sword you love so much)
also, what i kinda think of when i read your post is something like: "RAWR!!! CANT MAKE MONEY OFF LAZY PEOPLE?!?!?!?!)
Basil as a runemaster would be rather epic.
I'll say something relevant later.
lol tinfoil hat.
Surely this will increase the value of the recipes that aren't featured in these halls?
Not precisely, because the demand for those do not go up. The same amount of people who wants a crest of almire recipe will stay the same.
If the recipes are not featured in the halls and demand has not gone up, but less people are doing recipe runs then supply will drop. The problem is if prices increase for something too much then everyone will start doing recipe runs again to try to cash in. Also if they only have 2 and 4* recipes in the hall then a market should still exist in much the same state as it currently is for Basil's 3 and 5* recipes.
"lol tinfoil hat.
Surely this will increase the value of the recipes that aren't featured in these halls?"
As nick said in one topic, more will come, stay tuned. As i said before T3 missions and hall of heroes with those recipes is just a matter of time. This problem starts now and will escalate in future, we cant be narrowmined "its only up to 4* recipes, no problem now" the problem will appear in future when all recipes will be avaliable in hall of heroes
The next update will have HoH recipes binding on purchase.
Does that really fix anything, though? There's no market for recipes if everyone can get them for Basil prices whenever they want.
Our intention is to provide a player who wishes to craft with every opportunity to do so. The HoH is designed to make various play styles obvious to players as well as directly provide them with the means to act on them. I understand that this change impacts the market for selling recipes, but it is a change that is for the better of the game as a whole.
More clarity, happier players overall.
[edit: meh too slow (again :P) I'm just going to stop trying to post in context here now :3]
That's fine by me, although I'm not sure there's much of a reason to have Basil in the game anymore at all after (if?) you make 5* recipes available in HoH. That makes the terminals pretty boring, too.
The more pertinent question is: "Does it matter that there is no market for recipes?". When did the purpose of the game become do Basil runs for recipes and sell them on the market? The game is about exploring the clockworks and helping restore the Skylark. Basil runs are something the players themselves created as a get-rich-quick scheme and was probably never intended by the developers. Does it matter than some players can no longer make lots of money this way? I think killing the recipe market will help players actually focus on the actual game instead of having most of the party drop out when they reach Basil.
EDIT: Darn, Nick beat me to the punch. D:
The Clockworks remain 'the wilds' of the world with a more chaotic layout and open experience. Missions are the more guided, more obvious track for experiencing content. Both have their merits.
It makes people have to unlock the Hall of Heroes to get access to any recipe they want.
To me it looks, like now it's even more extreme that most of the cr in the game come from gambling in one way or another. Selling recipes used to be a slightly more relieant and player-skill-involving way besides "plain grinding".
Also, the npc's are giving really awful "playing style advice", unless the the balancing update will really turn the whole game around so it actually will work like that.
Also, why have gates when you can play boss areas whenever you want? The vast vast majority of players prefer doing boss areas to regular floors because of the higher profit levels there (i.e. actual profit rather than loss). And newbies who don't understand the nuances of profit will be running missions instead of gates anyway.
I dunno, if you're shifting the game entirely to missions and this is just a transitionary period, that works, it just seems like a lot of the game mechanics you developed originally are being obsoleted. You need to make the gates enticing somehow or else they're going to be relatively deserted with very few parties to join.
I actually have been lately experimenting with setting up bomber equipment, but since I've been playing a while I'm pretty well acquainted with what is and isn't good equipment for a bomber, even though I have never been one. It seems to me this will help people branch out faster. And heck, I wouldn't complain to see more players who aren't swordies running around everywhere. +1 from me.
@Kalaina:
While I get where you're coming from, I gotta admit, I do love running beast and jelly strata from time to time, whether they're going to be profitable or not. Yes, I do have a pass so I can do that, but it makes me happy to run around and just have fun without worrying about profit in those strata. And as I think someone pointed out, rightly so, in another thread, once we reach 5* prestige levels, 5* materials will be asked for in prestige missions, and people will want to grind for those mats rather than for basil recipes.
Yes, I like missions, but no I won't stop doing regular clockworks for them, because I really do enjoy doing clockworks not for profit, just for fun.
@Ufana
Selling recipes wasn't reliable. The recipe market is always in flux and you aren't always guranteed a profit. Heck you aren't even guranteed that Basil will carry profitable recipes. If you want reliable, grind up your CR the old fashioned way. If you want more rewards then you will have to take more risks, or as you call it: "gambling".
@Kalaina-Elderfall
Well that is one way of looking at it, but that's just it, you're only showing one way of looking at the situation. Sure some people see all floors leading up to the boss floors as an obstacle that is better avoided, and I guess OOO finally thought why not give those players what they want? Are you complaining that now that OOO is letting you skip all those floors you never liked anyways that you want to force players to go back to how it was before and grind up to the boss floors every time they want to make a boss run? That is not to say that everybody will play that way. I don't think those with elevator passes will feel as inclined to repeat boss stratums over and over again so they will probably keep playing however they wish to. I think this actually lets F2P players compete in terms of crown generation to elevator pass users.
Yeah there will probably be crown inflation if that was all there is to it, but thankfully OOO also added a materials and crown sink with the mission system. It may not be significant now, but once you are high enough in ranks the sinks start working much better.
I agree with the idea that the recipe market has been ruined. Honestly? I don't much care, even though I (theoretically) could have made a lot of money that way, as the OP pointed out. On the other hand, now I can buy recipes on the cheap, and therefore don't need as many crowns as before. Another plus? More players will be dumping crowns into the HoH instead of trading to other players, so that will offset inflation a little. There's no way I expect it to offset the inflation caused by all the new content, but it's something, as Nodocchi mentioned.
Nodocchi has it right that players will be looking for materials now more than ever. Access to crafting via recipe availability has been much improved, along with the missions that require certain materials. This also provides incentive for players to look to dive into specific strata in search of these materials.
The market's changing, and you'll just have to try your best to keep up.
I think the larger issue should be finding a new use for Basil at the Clockwork Terminals.
i.e. Maybe he has accessories on rare occasion.
Really the issue is the loss of 'rare' hunting at Basil for extra profit. Find a new use for Basil.
Prior to missions, most of us just ran boss areas without running the floors before anyway, so there's really not going to be much of a change there except that people are going to not be in the gates. My biggest complaint isn't so much that this has ruined the gameplay, but rather that it has made gates rather pointless. Sure, they still provide mats and new areas, but... what if the Tier 3 missions do the same? Like if they give us a T3 decon zone mission and an Aurora Isles mission or something. Why go to gates then when we can get what we want without it?
Basically, I'm not complaining that the game is ruined, but I'm seeing a future of gates being a meaningless game mechanic, unless they make all of the T3 missions downright intolerable. Seems like the game is now becoming missions rather than what we're used to, which is fine if that's what they want to do, but I don't like having meaningless game mechanics, especially if it's something as complex and interesting as gates.
maybe ... it could be something like most recipes are available through hall of heroes, but basil sells recipes at a 10% discount .... ? idk XD
also with the boss jump gates... i actually like this, but the downside is not as much opportunity to get rare recipes And no prize wheel :1
I'm not going to say anything about recipes since I haven't gone on since the release of missions (school). I can say that I make pretty decent cash in other ways......yeah, you know what I'm talking about. It does involve skill though. And yes, it is legal.
The only purpose Basil currently serves with the mission system stopping at 6-2 is for 5* and token upgrade recipes.
Assuming once the missions expand, 5* recipe access will also be provided.
This leaves the token upgrade recipes.
We all know players aspire to get their DA's, GF's etc.
Having to grind through Basil's selection only to hope to get the upgrade recipe you want is pointless.
The Hall of Heroes, conveniently has space for another merchant at the back. Suggest adding another merchant who sells token upgrade recipes.
From a game / story / business perspective - Basil's business has effectively been nerfed.
Logically, he should pack up shop or start selling something else.
(Same can be said for Kozma's wares and Vatel's recipes are in the same boat.)
Not all players, presumably will play missions - but the large majority of them will - especially if they are guaranteed 5* recipes at base cost.
Having a 2 tiered system once 5* recipes are available in the HoH is pointless, and really - only serves to confuse new players.
As for the AH - recipes should ultimately be removed.
A nice gesture from OOO would be to buy any recipes a player doesn't want / can't use from them at base cost should this happen.
Possible solution would be to turn Basil into a sort of "black market dealer" in that his wares change often, but they're also cheaper than Hall of Heroes' prices. If the concept of calling it a "black market" bothers people then call it a discount shop or whatever suits your fancy. The idea's still the same - Basil's wares change but if he has what you're looking for, it's cheaper to get it from him than the Hall of Heroes.
I'd like to suggest ideas to prevent competition between Basil and HoH but OOO basically shot themselves in the foot there, since this system creates a competitive environment to happen regardless of the terms at this point. And that'd be good, but then they went and gimped the competitive spirit by making HoH recipes bind-on-acquire, which I'm actually getting pretty tired of seeing. It's like OOO treats it as if it's duct tape and uses it to fix pretty much whatever people find a problem with.
That striker knight is really someone to look up to. Standing there in his wolver... what a guy.
Well having read Nick response it clear the recipe business is dead and we will just have to see if this is a good or bad move for the game over all. However what 3 rings could do to help the player economy, would be to put a Auction House terminal along side there mission shop (or just replace it), is that is too much they could make the mission shop source materials from AH or player donations from prestige missions. It does seem at the moment, that the mission system does everything it can to hide the fact you can trade with other players, which is also a valid playing style.
I think making the hall of heroes recipes 50% more expensive would be a good idea. Many players used to do "Basil runs". What are they doing now, after they finished the missions? I mostly log in, try to "roll" an uv by crafting with my ME and then stand around until at some point I time out. Somehow, I have less things to do now than before this "content addition".
@Jacobey Boost was also made mostly redundant by the new update, since all of his wares are available from the supply depot fairly early on. Then again, Boost is available in more locations than the Supply Depot. The gear vendors could eventually become unnecessary as well, though you can still get 0* gear and pay in crowns with those merchants.
y wud they make people in the hall of heroes sell stuff like chroma anyways, if u jst made t2 how wud u hv tht money :P
Boost will be replaced by Kozma in the next update and Kozma will now open the Supply Depot.
@Nick I approve of that change. Sticking Boost everywhere, while definitely convenient if you happened to run out of a slot unlock half way through a gate or forgot to buy a shadow key or something, felt a little bit like sticking a giant credit card terminal around every corner.
Basil still has work, at least with 5* recipes and RT recipes.
As far as the clockworks go, It's a perfect place to put new content that isn't boss-related. Themed strata, minibosses, etc. I'm hoping they remove Snarb, JK and RT from the clockworks, actually. I'd rather have more random stuff. Also, it'd be a good chance to create new bosses, since they apparently haven't wanted to put multiple bosses in one gate. Removing old bosses from the clockworks = new boss space.
"The next update will have HoH recipes binding on purchase." -N
"Our intention is to provide a player who wishes to craft with every opportunity to do so." -N
"More clarity, happier players overall." -N
My guildmate asked to be teleported to the Hall of Heroes so he could buy a 4* recipe. For whatever reason, it didn't work and he couldn't join, so i bought the recipe for him, only to find that it was bound to me when i tried to trade it to him.
Obviously, i was a bit irked on the inside. And he felt bad about asking me to go get the recipe for him. But i told him it was okay and not to worry about it.
But...What exactly is the point of binding recipes that are widely available now?
If your intention is to provide a player who wishes to craft, with every opportunity to do so, maybe you shouldn't keep us from trading recipes to our friends.
To prevent exactly the scenario you described. So that you have to earn the massive supply of recipes and have to use Basil to get the unbound ones in the clockworks.
3 rings is making such horrible decisiosn lately
@Nick
You should really consider reducing the amount of recipes sold. Keep it to 4 sets or whatever. This is really taking away some of the most important elements which has kept me around. Hunting for recipes and being forced to do gates in order to get them, resulting in great populations at the gates. The gates are almost redundant right now NICK. Not only are there missions that replace the bosses, but finding that 1 recipe at basil isn't worth it anymore.
Just the Boss Token lines recipes are missing, so all other recipes will be worthless while those will be worth a ton.
Goodbye recipe trading.