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Thoughts on the Missions System

7 replies [Last post]
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 23:59
Agazide's picture
Agazide

The crown counter was a great addition to the end-of-run summary. They should have implemented it in the Arcade clockworks a long time ago, though.

The giant gears by the ramps in the clockworks are awesome. I love the details like that. I also love steampunk.

Zombie jump attack change - all in all, reverting it to a direct damage attack fixed it because the grapple attack was broken before, but it’s a shame they weren’t able to fix the grapple attack. It mades zombies a lot more dangerous in crowds and created situations where knights had to save each other by smacking the zombies off each other, which required teamwork and was a lot of fun when it happened.

The mission in which you go through levels infested with kamikaze bubble ghosts was polished, unique, and generally epic. There should be more unique missions like that, as I feel a lot of them are just clockworks levels put together. Maybe a stealth mission in which you’ve got no weapons till the end or something like that.

Mission system in general is polished and works well, and the DLC “expansion” system is accessible and unintrusive.

However, missions feel a little disjointed - I get that, storywise, we’re going through a beast zone in order to find a passageway to the gremlin zone so that we can get blueprints or whatnot, but it feels like two unrelated levels, one after another. There ought to be blocked up elevators strewn around the beast zone or such, things that show you’re actually searching for a way into the gremlin zone. Similarily, there should be clues as to where the captured knights have gone in the rescue missions. Needs more detail.

The Roarmulus related missions need a change - there’s a whole thing about looking for the blueprints in order to figure out what Project R is, but you can just… scroll to the right from the missions bar and read about the Roarmulus Twins mission from there. I’m sure that’s an oversight.

The longest nonboss mission is like three levels long, making missions seem casual, but I’m sure hardcore DLC will fix that.

The Slime Arena mission seems kind of sloppily put together. It’s essentially an arena level with a wall in front of the first two elevators, resulting in a really awkward-looking level layout. Move the rewards/health room to the center and get rid of the unneeded elevator wings on the right, that will make the thing look more polished. The Arena King - There’s got to be a better explanation than the Arena King. Have stands full of monsters watching your gladiatorial-style fight or something. Also, the level seems a little flat. I think a longer staircase between each battle zone would make for more epicness, as well as a closeup shot from the beginning showing how far it is to the top of the arena.

All the knights you have to rescue are just reskinned mechknights with reskinned spurs. They are invincible and weak in combat. This makes the rescue missions seem pretty flat - just get the knights out and kill everything, because there’s no penalty for leaving the knights behind, and the knights can’t help you fight anyway. I put my shield up and watched my four knights get their butts handed to them by a swarm of gremlins and mechknights for 15 minutes. They take forever to die, and do little damage - this makes the knights basically not there in combat. There should be some penalty for having them die, perhaps you need to spend a pip of health to revive them or something. They should also have useful functions in combat - low level poison bombs are appreciated and unobtrusive, heavy swords would make them more impressive, guns that stun mobs, ect. Maybe make it so that each knight looks unique and has randomized gear. Make knights more relevant in combat and to the mission.

Maybe fix the mechknights while you’re at it - There’s only one mechkit for all three tiers, and so they’re essentially worse than useless at T3. Fix them by having them not shield against your own projectiles, allowing knights to walk through them, and making it so they won’t shock PC knights.

I really want a large-scale combat mission. I’ve always had a huge thing for watching AI fight each other, and it would be really cool to see maybe a dozen outmatched spiral recruits fighting a horde of organized Gremlins. You’d get a sense that you were doing something, turning the tide of the battle and being powerful.

There are no easter eggs and there should be. This game is awesome because there’s so much detail in it. Easter eggs in the ready room. Easter eggs in the knight camps. Easter eggs in mission rewards. More awesome stuff.

The prestige missions where you have to turn in gear and supply packs bother me. It costs a significant amount of capital to turn in a 4* item, and this means Prestige is more a function of a player’s disposable income than their skill. I think it should stick to mats and crystals, and the Prestige Missions should be much more difficult than usual.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 00:56
#1
Schattentag's picture
Schattentag
Wow, lots of thoughts

After reading all of that, I don't think there's anything major that I can really disagree with, so I'll just share on individual parts.

I also loved the Soldier Graveyard. Like you said, it was unique and intense, and I'd like to see more of these missions with really specific scenarios. A stealth mission would be great, and I'm sure people would also enjoy having one in some form or another (see Derpdederpderp's post in my Class Missions thread).

As for the disjointedness, I'm not entirely sure the extent to which the rank missions are supposed to be related. Many of them do seem to lack any substantial connection with other missions storywise, and I feel like there could be a few explanations for this. Some of the missions are clearly just introductory missions to sort of showcase the different damage types, so they don't really need to connect to the story much. Others have their own little stories behind them, like Geo Knights getting stranded somewhere. These missions are exactly that - missions. Maybe it's strange that Spiral HQ needs every single player to go down and rescue Geo Knights, but that's what's up. All that being said, I definitely wouldn't mind if missions (at least the rank ones, the "main campaign" of Spiral Knights) were a little more fluid in terms of their storyline.

I like the Arena revamp idea, hands down. I especially like the idea of having monster "fans" lining the arena to watch the fight, as you may have seen in my Class Missions thread.

I had no idea the knights could die, honestly. I just saw them get hit and assumed they were invincible. Giving them a more tangible health total and requiring their protection are both things I support (again, that Class Missions thread). I haven't played through all of the missions yet, but I'm still waiting to see something like what was showed in the original Mission System Preview - a real fight with fellow knights.

As for Mechaknight Kits, I actually sometimes just use those to pull some enemy aggro off of me for a bit. Making them actually viable fighters would be cool, though.

Like I said, waiting on a real fight with the NPC's...

Easter eggs are cool, but they're kind of gimmicky really. I don't see a whole lot of purpose in adding them.

I guess I can agree with having Prestige Missions be more challenging - something actually worth rewarding prestige. As far as I can tell, the difficulty of Prestige Missions do currently scale according to your rank, but they're still really easy to do. It's still unclear as to how prestige is going to be used in the future, but in any case I feel like it should be a little harder to build up.

Cheers.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 05:08
#2
Wuvvums's picture
Wuvvums
"There should be some penalty

"There should be some penalty for having them die, perhaps you need to spend a pip of health to revive them or something."

ONLY if they change their AI because frankly, they're impossible to protect in some levels. I saw one going around trying to attack Grimalkins(which, surprise, killed it) and the others derping and trying to attack monsters through walls in deconstruction zones, and yet could still be hit by the bombs. I'm a little glad that they didn't give us an escort requirement for them because their AI is horrible at the moment.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 08:46
#3
Severage's picture
Severage
@OP:

I agree with Wuvvums on the penalty to die thing, because on CSK levels they're nearly impossible to protect. Grimalkins slay them very quickly, and they move so sluggishly that they are never within candle range even when you are (Not to mention, they run up and start to slash at the Grimalkins anyway). Soloing CSKs without losing your companion knight would be very difficult.

Mechaknight Kits are really only useful in T1 to be quite honest; where nothing hurts you. In T3 a zombie can kill them, and in T2 a single Retrode blast will kill them, or about a full combo of (enemy) Mecha Knights will kill them (Yeah I know the other constructs do Elemental Damage, but they still die uber fast). Unless you're fighting Jellies, the Mecha Knights die very quickly, and really provide very little help anyways. On Arenas, they block up kiting techniques, rendering them useless (And usually get slaughtered), and anywhere else they are just in the way all the time.

All in all, even though they're a more rare item drop, they're pretty useless.

+1 To Easter Eggs. 'Nuff said.

I'm in partial agreement with your Prestige mission ideas; although it *is* really based on your capital rather than your skill, it essentially sinks some of the crowns you get from doing the Missions back into no-man's-land. I think the Material Sinks are great, that way I can stop selling 100x of every existing material 1*-3* to Vatel, and the Prestige missions are quite easy, usually around the same difficulty as any other mission. I see it as a daily mission you can do once you've completed all the normal missions. I do find that many Prestige Missions are Fiend-based though, which many people have trouble with, so one could argue that they are potentially "harder" to the general populace.

~Sev

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:06
#4
Agazide's picture
Agazide
Yeah.

Okay, nix the penalty for dead rescuees thing. Maybe a reward for having them *not* die?

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 17:43
#5
Tovvok
I agree

WITH EVERYTHING YOU SAID straight to the point!

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 17:59
#6
Severage's picture
Severage
@Agazide:

Ehh I don't know about that either since they're practically invincible on any stage except for CSKs.

It may be suitable if their AI wasn't so horribad but at the moment I think there's a reason they didn't add any penalties/bonuses on keeping them alive...likely because in most of the Testing, they suicided so much...which is also probably why they have loads of health (Yet for whatever reason they must be weak to Shadow or something because Grimalkins tear them apart).

~Sev

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 05:26
#7
Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle
Agreed. Better NPC knights

Agreed. Better NPC knights would be really cool.

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