Spiral Knights - Not being able to play an unlimited amount of time for free is TERRIBLE for the longevity of this game.

Not being able to play an unlimited amount of time for free is TERRIBLE for the longevity of this game.

87 replies [Last post]

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 08:23

#51

Icee

Reasonable proposals, rather than "gimme elevators for free"

You get up to 109 free ME a day, or about 1-2 hours of play for free. Let's estimate about 40 hours per month of free play. If, on top of that, you spend $10, you get another 3500 energy, for a total of up to 80 hours a month without ever buying a single energy from the exchange. If you want to be more economical, you can spend $50 for 20,000 and get each level of play for a mere 2.5 cents. I think that cost is reasonable. Elevator costs are needed to drive the profitability of this game. Like the OP, I've spent money on SK and I feel I've gotten a very good deal on my purchase.

If you want to play a whole lot, this game is going to be a bit expensive compared to subscription-based games, but that is how micropayment systems have to work. If players get too much for free, they will be far less likely to pay and will create a server and support burden without generating revenue to cover these costs. Many players are spurred to pay by the desire to keep playing (I know I was), and eliminating elevator costs completely would thus cost OOO paying customers.

I can understand the frustration for someone used to a subscription model, but the fact is that this game cannot introduce a true subscription model without segregating the subscribing players onto their own servers where they wouldn't be able to interact with free players and micropayment players. Puzzle Pirates does this, and the subscription servers have proven far less popular than the micropayment servers, but OOO still runs them so I assume they are still profitable enough to be worthwhile. Nonetheless, the fact that OOO chose not to use a similar dual-payment-option system here should tell you that they don't think starting new subscription services is worth their time and effort.

Instead of simply demanding free elevators, you could propose a payment system that would allow for unlimited or expanded elevator access for a reduced cost compared to current CE rates. A realistic proposal would have to make economic sense for OOO as well as for the player. In other threads I have posited a system of purchasing an expanded and faster-filling mist tank. For perhaps $5 a month, you could double your mist capacity and double its refill rate. For a daily player, that means you get $10 worth of play for only $5, but the mist energy can't be traded like CE can, you can't carry leftover mist over to the next day let alone the next month, and you'd still need to buy some CE to craft top tier items. The tradeoffs between mist and CE make this a good deal for certain players while still being a reasonable option for OOO to offer.

Another possible solution for people who want to pay for unlimited play time is to sell an elevator pass for cash. For a monthly fee ($10 seems right to me), a player could purchase unlimited elevator access, but energy would still be needed for crafting and reviving. Again, daily players who want to spend 4+ hours in the dungeons each day would find this a good deal and OOO would still make a decent profit on this sale.

I personally don't think anything needs to change, but the above possibilities seem to me to be reasonable additional payment options that could be added for those who do want alternatives.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 08:41

#52

Arydrall

Legacy Username

To all of y'all who are

To all of y'all who are complaining about the price of energy...

What, did you expect to not have to pay forever?

I've so far logged in about 30 hours into the game, and have put in a grand whopping total of seven dollars. What can seven dollars get me in the real world?

Almost two hours of entertainment in the movies
Close, but not quite, two gallons of gas in my car
One meal of fast food
Maybe a cheap game of indeterminable quality on Steam/XBLA

I'm sitting on a pile of 900 CE right now in my tank. I usually burn through my 100 mist tank every day, then go on with my life unless I'm feeling like getting more done. You all act like that 100 is SUCH a small thing. Yes, it goes fast. But you know what?

Making that 100 last awhile is a game in itself. Every time I jump into a dungeon, i'm weighing choices. What's going to earn me the most? Is it worth it to craft that new shiny sword right away, or is the one I have good enough considering it's still earning heat? I'm sitting on a pile of equipment I have to master. Not all of it is awesome, but they all are interesting choices that I'd like to have maxed out for whatever content they add in the future.

Here's the deal. Yeah, CE's going to go up. Why? Because people are going to pay for it, when the supply is low. My first purchase was for like, what, 700 energy at 2.5 or whatever? do you KNOW how long you can make that stretch? We're like what, two or three weeks in from the release and so far it's half a regular MMO, skill plays a heavy part in how you can keep playing, and patience can bring you in more energy if you've been stockpiling materials. If you have the investment too, you can play the energy market and slowly regain another 100 so you can rush through.

Or, like me, when you're done with your 100, you can just STOP and play something else. It keeps the game fresh.

PLEASE. STOP WHINING. The game is fun. What the hell did you expect, Sega and Three Rings to give you a back massage while you act like a victim and cry when you haven't given them anything? It's A GAME. A GAME. Not some god given right.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 08:42

#53

Hassohappa

Legacy Username

So far I haven't paid

So far I haven't paid anything into the game and have played an unlimited amount of time. Unless you are blatantly incompetent you can still earn enough money from a T1 run to buy 100 CE and have money left over, and a T1 run only costs 60 CE + whatever you spend on gates or being bad. Perhaps it will not always be that way, but for now it is and your statement itself is totally absurd even if it were true. Not being able to play a game a company spent four years developing infinitely without paying them any money is a terrible setup? This pretty much has to be a troll.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 08:47

#54

Raul

I apologize, it was more of a

I apologize, it was more of a warning in this thread, but you have made similar threats in other threads and I just took to commenting on it here.

Oh, OK. I was going to say, I didn't start that up in here lol.

Again, I understand personal attacks have no place here, but unless you feel like you're in danger or something, I wouldn't take it so seriously as to report it. I understand this is supposed to be a kid friendly place, but you're an adult and you can handle it. If someone is saying awful things to a defenseless kid, then fine, go to the admins.

Hmm, my crippled thing is a sore spot for me. I lost my entire life and gained a new unfavorable one. It's a pretty big deal to me. I let my emotions get in the way and if you knew me, you would find that funny. Oh they read trust me lol, I get my warnings, which I try to follow but grr sometimes man sometimes.

I feel we have grown here. Hopefully others will follow suit.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 09:00

#55

Metaknight

Yes. Lets agree to disagree

Yes. Lets agree to disagree from now on. :)

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 09:06

#56

alkanshel

Legacy Username

Pfft. To hell with that.

I disagree with that sentiment.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 10:05

#57

kyoushu1

Legacy Username

[quote]I'll put in atleast

["I'll put in atleast $20-50 a month into this game for as long as I'm playing it."]

That's not a good business model though. Much larger, higher budget games with way more content only cost $15 a month to play (ie. WoW)
The appeal of these smaller F2P games is that you can enjoy yourself without being forced to pay, but there are good incentives for you to do so. F2P games depend on occasional micro transactions from most players and very large, continuous ones from a small group (ie. people like you). For even 2 microtransactions a year, they're already making around $20 which is what most developers would charge for a small or independent game. Spiral Knights is heavily instanced, and it's not a free-roam MMO, so I can't imagine that the server costs are that crippling that this wouldn't be enough money.

I think Dungeon Fighter Online does the fatigue/CE system much better than Spiral Knights.
A full bar of fatigue lasts a lot longer in DFO. You have 150 fatigue and each room in a dungeon uses up 1 fatigue (dungeons are typically 6-12 rooms). Whereas on Spiral Knights, you're using 10 CE a floor, and a full tier is about 8 floors. You get way more playtime from DFO right now vs Spiral Knights, and DFO's still making a lot of money with their business model because you can use real money to pay for avatar items, rare items and other things. You also don't need to use fatigue to craft or obtain items in DFO. What they do is offer monthly packages where you can use real money to buy a set of rare weapons, armor, avatar items, pets, etc, and then they have a constantly running gatcha system that allows players to roll for items.

Also, the most important thing about DFO is that the fatigue bar resets on a daily basis in the morning.
So if you finish the day with 0 fatigue, you're back up to 150 at 6:00 AM rather than waiting 22 hours for it to regenerate. I think a lot less people would complain about the overinflation of CE if the CE just reset at a set time everyday.

You can't just look at it as Spiral Knights on its own. You have to look at pricing vs its competition.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 10:07

#58

Metaknight

@kyoushu1

Wow. I would actually love an immediately reset at a certain time of day. And I would love if I could choose what time of day to make that happen at. And maybe have the option to change what time of day that is, but make it effective the following day or whatever so you couldn't rig it.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 10:11

#59

Icee

Price isn't the only way to compete

DFO gives you more playtime for free because it gives you far less quality. I had never heard of the game, so I had to look it up. The graphics in the video on its home page would have been right at home on my old Windows 3.1 machine that I used to use to play Street Fighter II in the early-1990s. If you want dated graphics with jerky animation, you can get a lot of it for free (and not just from DFO), but Spiral Knights offers a better product and can thus charge more for it.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 10:34

#60

Metaknight

@Icee - I never heard of it

@Icee - I never heard of it before either but I checked the site out. Those are actually pretty nice sprite graphics. It might be oldschool, but its better than Street Fighter II era.. maybe more SNK in the late 90's, early 2000s or something. That said, it actually looks pretty cool. I don't think SK exactly blows it out of the water, graphically speaking. Gameplay might be another story, but I'm just commenting on it from what I saw of the graphics. Not trying to take away from your point, I just wouldn't be so quick to sneeze at it thats all.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 11:45

#61

Unbounded

Huh...

So let me get this straight: Skype and the OP are basically saying "Because the price of free CE keeps rising, Free players won't be able to afford CE anymore, and as such they'll stop playing. More players will stop playing, and eventually the game will become a ghost town and die."

Isn't that a bit of a slippery slope?

I can agree to the point that it's harder for NEW players to get into a game, and if you can't effectively keep new players the game will eventually die. But players who are already hooked onto the game? They're much, much harder to get rid of. Players already immersed in the game can earn money through selling materials, (drops from monsters in the clockworks), and earning money from their accumulated minerals. (Trust me, those add up.)

People already playing keep playing because they LIKE the game, and there are very few, (if any) games like spiral knights out there. With that in mind, it's doubtful people would stop playing because they can't afford as much extra playtime. What WOULD happen is people will try harder to earn CE.

Heck, the fact that people want to complain so badly about CE just shows how addicted they are.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 11:57

#62

weirdguy

Legacy Username

heh

more people will make the cycle go FASTER, so this will be even crazier than beta

how many mmos have you played in which more people made the economy change slower?

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 11:59

#63

zizzefex

Legacy Username

"So let me get this straight:

"So let me get this straight: Skype and the OP are basically saying "Because the price of free CE keeps rising, Free players won't be able to afford CE anymore, and as such they'll stop playing."

No your missing the point as well as many others. I do not care about the price of CE in crowns. I care that PAYING players only get 35 hours of gametime for $10 of REAL MONEY (based on 100CE/hour of dungeon crawling). Don't say you can buy CE in crowns... because this is a temporary occurrence that will not be true for very long when people have all the gear/recipes they want. When people stop selling their CE... this won't be true at all.

This is a ridiculously tiny amount of gametime compared to any Pay to Play MMO or any Free to Play MMO.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 12:06

#64

weirdguy

Legacy Username

how about this

at some point people will not even bother to buy crowns with CE anyway

so we will see how prices will work then

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 12:06

#65

anisoptera

Legacy Username

I care that PAYING players

I care that PAYING players only get 35 hours of gametime for $10 of REAL MONEY (based on 100CE/hour of dungeon crawling).

This is like arguing that Wario Ware only has 15 minutes of gameplay because it only has 100 minigames that are played for about 5 seconds each. Technically true and completely missing the point.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 12:15

#66

weirdguy

Legacy Username

yeah

That's probably the reason why I rented that game instead of buying it.

Maybe we should be arguing this in the other direction: instead of trying to make energy cheaper by yelling at the players, we should be yelling at the creators to give a major increase to how much energy you get for your cash.

On the other hand, all the paying people still have to carry the monetary burden of free players...

so, wat do

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 12:16

#67

imoutofnames

Legacy Username

You make good points but your

You make good points but your argument is invalid since your post is on the premise that you HAVE to pay to play and that you cannot play as long as you like without paying. Both of these statements are false.

In one run (~60ME) you can easily make enough crowns to buy 100CE and this is not including materials. If you include materials you could probably get anywhere from 200-400CE. (possibly more depending on your drops) You also forget to mention that you get two mist tanks which can easily get you past the beginners hump where you can't play as much as you like since your equipment is too weak.

one t2 run, using <100 mist energy I get well over 5k crowns and plenty of materials that if I wanted to I could sell and make another 5k. Not to mention you aren't adding in the crystals which even though they are only 5 crowns each, if you do enough levels you can get a hefty amount of crowns.

So really as long as you don't play the "ohhh something new I must buy it" style of play and take a more "I will make sure I have enough to buy this + buy CE for my next run" you can play as long as you like.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 12:21

#68

zizzefex

Legacy Username

"Maybe we should be arguing

"Maybe we should be arguing this in the other direction: instead of trying to make energy cheaper by yelling at the players, we should be yelling at the creators to give a major increase to how much energy you get for your cash."

This is very true and the only other way to make the game fair long term for paying players. You should get 70 hours minimum for $10 bucks..... more like 100 hours to be even remotely close to any Pay to Play MMO. Especially considering upgrades still take energy... as do other extras such as trinkets. 3500CE/$10 is ridiculously low as the game stands right now.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 12:57

#69

Thrull

Legacy Username

Obviously the answer is to

Obviously the answer is to create 10 accounts, pay 0.75c each to get them all paid status, equip them for T2, and marshal the power of your 1000 mist energy Crown farming armada.

Edit for disclaimer: I am in no way condoning what could be construed as an abuse of the mist energy feature. Rather, I am highlighting the extent to which certain players may go to avoid the barriers they perceive as preventing them from playing the game.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 12:22

#70

weirdguy

Legacy Username

well

in the future, you probably won't be able to clear the bar for CE prices unless you're doing the best runs, and you'd have to have good gear for that.

basically all the newbies get shafted because we don't care about them

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 12:25

#71

zizzefex

Legacy Username

"In one run (~60ME) you can

"In one run (~60ME) you can easily make enough crowns to buy 100CE and this is not including materials. If you include materials you could probably get anywhere from 200-400CE. (possibly more depending on your drops) You also forget to mention that you get two mist tanks which can easily get you past the beginners hump where you can't play as much as you like since your equipment is too weak."

This is only true right now while people are willing to sell you their CE. This won't be true for long... maybe you missed the part where people said CE prices went up to 22k crowns/100CE.

"one t2 run, using <100 mist energy I get well over 5k crowns and plenty of materials that if I wanted to I could sell and make another 5k. Not to mention you aren't adding in the crystals which even though they are only 5 crowns each, if you do enough levels you can get a hefty amount of crowns. "

T2 runs cost 80 energy (8 floors). If your lucky you'll get 6k. Again.... you won't be able to buy back the energy it cost you to run that eventually when people stop selling their CE. You will be limited to 1 run a day unless you spend a ton of money ($10 bucks for 35 hours of gametime) to continue to play.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 12:36

#72

imoutofnames

Legacy Username

Except your post is running

Except your post is running off the assumption that prices will go that high again and that no one will sell CE.

You can't use the closed beta as proof that you are correct because they limited the number of people allowed into the game. With no new people coming in and more people needing energy of course the price is going to go insanely high. Now that the game is actually fully released we will see a similar effect for a while until more people join. With more people and rising prices the incentive for people to buy CE with real money rises meaning two things.

1) People who buy CE will be less likely to spend their crowns on CE lowering the number of people buying
2) With more people who have CE floating around and high prices people will then sell their CE to get crowns also lowering the price

Again, I don't like having my time limited without changing my gameplay but the fact is as more people enter the game the problem of expensive CE is likely to disappear and the price will settle somewhere where people will be able to purchase it without needing to wait for their ME to recharge.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 13:01

#73

Unbounded

"35 hours for 10 dollars"

Heh, you've gotten 35 hours of gameplay for 10 dollars of real money, and I've gotten around... *Checks*

80 hours of gameplay for 0 dollars of real money.

Clearly you're just not spending wisely.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 13:28

#74

ElementLord

Legacy Username

*ahem*

I personally don't mind the costs, at least not now, I used to, but then i realized that energy being needed for most everything was actually a good thing, as it kept the game from getting old too fast, if you could play it 24/7, people would have completed most of the game in a week or so. With the costs, it keeps the game entertaining for longer, as well as gives a real sense of achievement when you get through a whole tier or craft something sweet.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 13:37

#75

Arydrall

Legacy Username

As I said earlier, I bought

As I said earlier, I bought like, however much the 2 buck and 5 buck gets you. I still have 900 energy left. I've played as much as I've wanted since release. That's included some three-four hour sessions. There are also days I only play for my 100 energy and leave it at that.

I'm just frustrated with people that complain so much. I sincerely hope that the devs don't get too reactionary over the mass of complaints. I hope they take it as a compliment that the game is so fun that people won't shut up about wanting to play it more. Because, man, I thought I would be bored with the simple concepts in the dungeons, but every time it's fresh. Every few days, the dungeons change. I keep seeing new things, new layouts. That'll probably not last, but there's a lot of variety here, variety that unlocks OVER TIME. And this is only in tiers one and two. I'm a pretty unskilled player, and I'm just having a blast.

And skilled players, well...they find ways to be self-sufficient really quick, so hey, not a problem, right?

Furthermore, that hour per 100 figure that everyone's touting is kind of flawed. I think it's accurate if you're doing nothing but RUSHING THROUGH the dungeons. Go solo if you want to stretch it out. not only do you get all of the materials, it also forces you to play smart, slow down, and become a better player through it.

Or hey, how about you craft some additional weapons at the lower rankings? Experiment with different types, decide what you like, or create sets for different dungeons.

Can't wait to get back home to play some more.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 13:40

#76

Njthug

You guys have to realize..

This game is not 20 years old or even well 8 years old. Yes, its been in the preview stages for a long time, but that was to gain feedback fix bugs and see if players are addicted to this game. This game just entered the market, and is already doing well. The Dev's will add mini-games and such to this game sooner or later. Rome was not built in a day, World of Warcraft was not made in 1 day, Runescape was not made in 1 day, and New York City was not made in a day. The best things in life takes days upon years to be close to perfect. If you played this game during the start of preview *No I have not I joined I think the 3rd preview stage, but the changes these Dev's did to this game is amazing...I went away for a month and came back and this was a NEW GAME* This game will not die out trust me if Three Rings feels it is and somehow needs more capital there will be people waiting to invest in this game, and I will be one of them. Some of the best Dev's, a very well thought out economy system, and in general a great game. You may be sad that your so called 10 hours gets you x amount of playing time, you have to realize part of the game is selling materials, items, etc. Make an item which a lot of people want with a nice Uv, trust me you will get a pretty penny if its a good item with a good Uv. Farm T3 for Flame Souls, Shadowsteel, and many more items and sell them for 5k Crowns to 20k Crowns people will pay and use that money on Ce. This game is FAIR to all sides F2p and P2p, P2p just can do stuff 20x's faster due to the energy they have, but sooner or later a F2p Player can reach up or surpass the p2p player.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 13:41

#77

alkanshel

Legacy Username

See, I thought about experimenting

but as a free player, I kinda watch my CE like a hawk. I could diversify down a new branch, but that's three recipes and ~350 CE I simply don't have at the moment.

Diversification is a luxury for lower-price times and/or buyers. I don't begrudge them that, I'm just saying there already exist benefits beyond 'if you pay money, you can continue playing.'

As a side note, I like seeing new stages, but I'm really, really sick of Emerald Axis and Perimeter Promenade. They've been on every other tier 2 route in existence for a week now. :P

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 13:44

#78

Arydrall

Legacy Username

Alkanshel, I completely agree

Alkanshel, I completely agree about Emerald Axis. That place can die in a fire.

A really big fire.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 13:49

#79

alkanshel

Legacy Username

Well

It's actually pretty easy now that I've gotten the hang of it, but there's only so many times I can hear that music before it starts haunting my dreams. Actually, it already has. Anytime I'm not busy, I hear the music...

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 17:34

#80

zizzefex

Legacy Username

"Heh, you've gotten 35 hours

"Heh, you've gotten 35 hours of gameplay for 10 dollars of real money, and I've gotten around... *Checks*

80 hours of gameplay for 0 dollars of real money.

Clearly you're just not spending wisely."

I am spending it very wisely. I have almost a full set of 5 star gear and I am self sufficient... for now... because that only is true while people are out there to sell me CE.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 18:27

#81

Milkman

Now I'm no economist but can

Now I'm no economist but can someone explain to me how the crown price of CE, affects how many people are buying CE with real money? If it is because nobody will buy the CE with crowns due to the high price and so the buyers of CE with real cash aren't getting any crowns, then won't the CE sellers just end up reduce their selling price hence reopening the CE market for people who don't want to pay real cash?

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 19:32

#82

anisoptera

Legacy Username

Now I'm no economist but can

Despite claiming you're no economist, you seem to have a better grasp of economics than average for this forum.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 21:06

#83

Unbounded

@ milkman797

The only reason people think the crown price of CE affects how many people buy CE with real money is the idea that they're getting more bang for their buck. If the price you can net for selling CE increases, but the cost of CE remains the same, then people are more likely to buy CE because simply, it's worth more.

On the point about CE sellers lowering the prices, they probably won't because they really just don't have to.

The price of CE is really freaking inelastic. It's the life of this game. It's used for virtually everything, and people WILL buy CE for almost any price.
Crafting, including high level crafting flat-out requires CE. Playing the game for extended periods requires CE. There's little chance that people would "just stop buying" CE.

Of course, that's assuming it's still within reach. I mean, the price can't raise to say, 20k crowns per 100 CE. At that point it's far out of reach of the majority and though it's still really inelastic, less people will actually be able to buy it.

What should happen, (though I admit I only have a minor grasp of economics and this should be taken with a grain of salt), is the price won't drop, but continue to gradually rise as more and more players start earning more and more crowns. Eventually it should stabilize(at least temporarily) when the endgame is reached by the majority, at around that price.

Though I'll say this now: All this arguing about CE is pointless. It's pretty obvious three rings won't do too much to keep players already immersed in the game hooked other than the update every so often because they don't even have to. Moreover, the majority of the players in the game won't exactly stop buying CE anyway. Sure, they won't enjoy the rising prices, but they'll suck it up (although reluctantly), and continue to buy energy from other players for ever-increasing prices.

Now, they MIGHT do more to get new players into it in the first place, but that's only if what's being done isn't already working. (The mist tanks)

Buuuuut those are just my thoughts on it. Take it however you may. :P

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 21:13

#84

dreampod

Legacy Username

Now I'm no economist but can

There are two interrelated problems.

The first problem is that there is very little in terms of crowns leaving the economy. With the exception of buying recipes and alchemy there is nothing that removes crowns fromt the game (buing or selling items/materials/CE just shuffles ownership but it is still there) and lots more entering the game everytime someone runs a level. Once a player has gotten the 5* recipes that they need and a good gear set the only thing they are going to spend crowns on is on gates or buying CE, neither of which actually removes them from the economy. This means that there is a constantly increasing amount of crowns in the economy which causes inflation. Without money sinks this is going to continue to grow worse and worse the more players achieve the Tier 3 plateau. Worse yet is that the players earning the most also have the least use for it they are always going to be able to outbid advancing players for CE.

The second problem (caused by the first) is that the price of CE has already passed the point you can buy enough on a Tier 1 run to do another and is rapidly approaching the same point for Tier 2. That means for these players the only choice is to buy CE or play solely with ME, this takes CE from being something that speeds up your progression to something you must buy or you basically can't play the game. This means that in order to reach Tier 3 players are going to have to take impossibly long times (I doubt it could be done in less than 6 months solely using ME) or pay cash. The increasing value of CE also means that buying less of it will get you farther and thus decrease the amount you need to purchase to reach higher tiers of play. This makes it progressively easier and easier to reach Tier 3 simply by paying $20-30 at which point they are now contributing to the inflation. The only way to sustain this sort of system is a constantly and exponentially expanding playerbase which is not realistic to expect.

I think it is completely reasonable to expect that most item sales will be made in CE within a month or two because crowns will have lost most their value. Without money sinks (specifically targetted towards higher Tier players) the economy is going to crumble. We are already seeing the beginning and it is just going to accelerate. A simple solution like having gates have a crown cost of (Depth x 100) would go a long way towards stabalizing the economy and place soft cap on what anyone can realistically expect to sell CE for.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 21:34

#85

spookas

Legacy Username

djbiznatch - I think you're

djbiznatch - I think you're misunderstanding something. When Skype's post ends with "EDIT: don't use bad language on the forums" or something, it isn't him telling you not to swear or else, it's an admin telling him not to swear and editing those words out of his post. Hope that clears it up.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 21:40

#86

chibikalak

Legacy Username

@dreampod I think there are

@dreampod I think there are crown costs for certain gates already, though it is so minuscule that it doesn't matter. At the time of posting, the rightmost accessible gates cost 200 to go down to tier 2, and I imagine more for tier 3. I was just noticing earlier today that there really is nothing other than recipes to pay for. Except! Just yesterday someone in Haven 1 was paying 100 crowns for everyone's bronze bolts and ended up with 1.3k of them. He didn't say what they were for. So I guess we can try to buy everyone's else's materials and take screenshots. That's one use!

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 22:52

#87

Metaknight

@spookas

oh that would make sense. its too bad that text changed by admins isn't clearly marked. i'm not sure if this forum software is sophisticated enough for that (the options they give US are certianly limited), but it would be nice if they at least signed it "~admin" or something. if that was truly the case. i understand the need for censorship at times, but i would like to know when people are being censored.

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Not being able to play an unlimited amount of time for free is TERRIBLE for the longevity of this game.