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Triple O: Hypocrites. Announcements contradict Actions greatly.

67 replies [Last post]
Wed, 03/07/2012 - 17:48
Rommil's picture
Rommil

Triple O Announces on 2-01-12:

The Supply Depot
The Supply Depot is a new feature that is connected to the mission interface. The Supply Depot is a place where players can purchase items associated with missions with energy. This includes accessories, weapons, gear, upgrades and even energy packs.

One of the things we’ve learned from player feedback and our data is that item availability is an issue for many new players. Finding what you need is important and the Supply Depot will allow you to never miss the item you need.

However, items in the Supply Depot must be earned. Items are added to your personal Supply Depot as you rank up.

Lastly, it's worth noting that the Supply Depot is built to exist in a world where crafting and unbinding is an important part of Spiral Knights. It is our expectation that the players that choose to use the Supply Depot will be active crafters, unbinders and Auction House patrons like our current players.

Actions:
Create a supply Depot that sales gear at every level cheaper than an actual player can EVEN UNBIND (not to even begin to consider mats and recipe costs).

Now, you'll notice they throw on this little beauty at the end " It is our expectation that the players that choose to use the Supply Depot will be active crafters, unbinders and Auction House patrons like our current players." REALLY? Come now, how could they possibly begin to believe that these players would engage in these activities? They say this so that they can then play stupid as players voice their displeasure at todays actions. So they believe that people will by 5* gear for 3500 ce, unbind it for 4000 ce and then engage in interpersonal trades and AH? uh...no they don't.

Furthermore, this is an intelligent and intentional design to cut out all player to player trading, more or less. Tell me, three rings, how can i possible create, unbind, and sell gear for less then, or even @ 3500 ce and not lose my @** on every transaction? The only pieces that will have any value now will be the token items, as they as of yet do not have a stupid cheap priced one in depot.

So triple O admits to understanding the importance of the player economy, admits to receiving the feedback of how important this is to us, and then they go off and completely undermine it.

Now, i realize a vast percentage of players won't be quite intelligent enough to connect the dots to how these is a willful and malicious destruction of the interactive player economy, and i already know which of those "below-the-line" players will come in with QQ and "I don't see the issue," posts. But to the reasoning, big-picture few who get it, this is unquestionably an underhanded move made from underhanded motives.

Please OOO explain to me how your announcement and your actions are not a direct contradiction to one another.

p.s. i guess on the brightside, i have all max UV'd weapons and armors, all i'd ever need or want. 85% of you don't understand this yet, but vh ctr weapons, max UV'd armors, these things are about to get 100x more rare, and cost 10x more going forward. Wait and watch, its coming. That is, of course, until OOO sees that some few are eeking out a profit on this, then they'll "fix" that too. And either let you buy UVs or Put them in AH for cheaper than players can realistically achieve themselves.

OOO whats a 3 part economy. They make and sell, you play, you use your credit card. A world where players barter and swap, and interact with one another is not something that entices them. They'll stock the shelves, you'll need your credit card to leave the store with goods.

I don't mind at all OOO trying to make profit and maximize profits, but to destroy the inter-player commerce is more or less unforgivable, as its 80% of the endgame content for anyone who has done FSC 5million times, and already tiring of Seerus.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 17:55
#1
Rommil's picture
Rommil
OOO

And yes, there is a disappointing amount of complaints leveled with most new updates. I believe the vast vast majority comes due to the fact that three rings blatantly ignores the age old addage "if its not broke, don't fix it." There was not a thing broke with the currents system, yet, we just saw a wide-sweeping changes that need not have been made.

I understand that in their view, the system was broke for what they wanted when they made the waaaay back 5-17 changes. But the current system we had, and the economy that had sprung from it, was not broken in any way, at least, not in any real way. The only way that it didn't "work" was that too much ce, crowns, and items were exchanging hands, rather than disappearing completely. This change makes it harder for ce, items, and crowns to exchange hands between players. Now, insted of 5000 ce going from one player to another for a clean item, 3500 ce will go from one player to OOO and effectively be sucked from the world, lest someone charges a credit card to put it back into existance.

Whereas a new player used to come along, give OOO thier money for ce, then give another player CE to buy their way to end game, now they give OOO their money, and then they give that CE right back to OOO for endgame gear. (even in the previous example, OOO was swiping 4k ce for every unbind. but still, 2k ce was going through the player's hands. we cannot have that.)

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:05
#2
Rommil's picture
Rommil
Lastly

I have a tendency to over-explain my position. The long and short of this whole thing is that OOO's actions directly contradict their announcement. Again, they claim that they expect supply depot participants to engage in unbinding and AH market. How are you going to buy gear for 3500 ce, unbind for 4k ce, (now 7500 ce) and then try to seed this into the market, when any player on the game can buy that same piece for 3500 in their own supply depot?

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:18
#3
Realnight's picture
Realnight
give me a minute

Here's the thing though, most of the unbind activity on the AH is with boss items or special UV'd gear - which the supply depot doesn't touch.

Other than those two cases to compare the prices of unbinding to the Supply depot is kind of unfair since it has always been cheaper to make regular items yourself than to buy an unbound one. (In fact it is still cheaper to make an item yourself with recipes then to buy in the Supply depot).

So really all the Supply depot does is give a place for player to look up gear (other than the wiki which by the way is a pain to explain to new player) or if they want it really quick but don't mind over paying buy it. These same players that buy from the Supply depot though still will want UV's gear at some point and the only way for them to get it is through Punch (normal) or the AH (normal). Plus if by some lucky chance they make something that is worth a lot with Punch they might choose to unbind and sell in the AH for profit (normal).

In others words I don't see the problems your seeing.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:11
#4
Alynn's picture
Alynn
+1

Supply Depot and Hall of Hero stopped item trading.
Very soon, people will have everything they want, and will have nothing left to do.

Spiral Knights is coming to an end.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:13
#5
Demonicsothe's picture
Demonicsothe
+1

+1

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:18
#6
Myllakka's picture
Myllakka
---

There's no point in selling non-token 5* items without great UVs anymore. Yeah, I don't see how this could possibly be bad for the sellers, OOO. It's obviously perfectly balanced!

/sarcasm

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:19
#7
Mayaura's picture
Mayaura
Please explain more about the affect of or on Unique Variants.

You say they will get rare and thus more expensive. Why? Yes, the supply depot sells gear for less than players can, but the gear has no unique variants, so players can still craft and unbind and sell gear with unique variants, and make money doing so, can't they?

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:25
#8
Demonicsothe's picture
Demonicsothe
@Mawashimono

That is a prediction by Rommil, that OOO will start selling uv's on featured auction.

And as for the 2nd part of your post: Supply depot items have no chance of uv upon acquiring. Thus, you must roll on said items to obtain a good uv. Most likely, one will be spending more than 20k to get good uv's on it. Or they ragecrafted, in which case, the item did not come from supply depot.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:27
#9
Thimol's picture
Thimol
-----

I was indifferent to this until I saw the Mercurial Set in there.

Then I peed a bit.

+1

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:28
#10
Derpules's picture
Derpules
Hasn't P2P trading been UV trading for quite a while?

You've been around for ages, Rommil, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I am honestly amazed that anyone ever bothered trading bound non-UVed gear in the first place. Why would anyone do that when crafting is cheaper?

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:42
#11
Tom-Awsm's picture
Tom-Awsm
@Derpules

Because they are lazy and rich.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:53
#12
Uuni's picture
Uuni
+1

I second this

They should only sell recipes in there or charge 6000-8000ce for 5* gear which is kinda redundant

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 19:05
#13
Rommil's picture
Rommil
@ all

@ mawashimono: since we are friends i will explain to you in game how by crippling the non-UV economy this cripples the UV economy in the long-run.

@ denurple: yes laziness. and not all laziness tho. If you are someone who makes good money, have a family, enjoy the game and don't want to use up all that enjoyment endlessly grinding, then buying some of your 5* gear is a viable option. Its all about how much you value your free time. What is it worth to you? it takes over a few hours to take somethign all the way up to level 5*, or you could spend a few bucks and buy it premade as 5*. If you make 30-50 bucks an hour, and only have an hour or so a night to play, its probably in your best interest to spend a little real life money and get there quicker. Again, how much is your time worth?

also, no matter who you are, the game only has so many hours of fun in it. How many hours of that fun do you want to waste leveling gear vs. playing with the end-game gear you want to use on the end game content.

@ Demon, you are right. But i think that we are going to see a whole-lot-less great UVs coming and going due to this.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 19:05
#14
Rommil's picture
Rommil
agreed

+1.

Also, uuni is right.

And to everyone who doesn't understand after reading rommil's post; you don't understand, so take my word, he is right. I guess the do say ignorance is bliss tho.

This is pawn posting on rommil's account, lol.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 19:05
#15
Doomskull's picture
Doomskull
OMG

+1, SO MUCH THAT THIS F**KING GAME WON'T HAVE TO COLLAPSE ANYMORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

/Sigh OOO

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 20:11
#16
Mayaura's picture
Mayaura
"pawn posting on rommil's account"

Wait....wha...?

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 20:11
#17
Shoebox's picture
Shoebox
HAHAHA SO MUCH FOR THAT

I remember when they said crafting and exploring the clockworks was the core experience of Spiral Knights.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 20:12
#18
Mayaura's picture
Mayaura
And also,...

3* gear and below is still profitable, right?

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 20:26
#19
Whereismyface's picture
Whereismyface
I don't even...

Guess i'll chime in too and add my voice to this, looking forward to seeing what sort of weak attempts are made to justify this, should be good for a laugh if nothing else.

It's rare to see a horrible decision of this scale made in games, just not rare enough.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 20:52
#20
Shoebox's picture
Shoebox
Ask Runescape!

If by 'rare' you mean every F2P MMO in existence has made this mistake at least twice, then yes it's rare.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 21:05
#21
Treizeknight's picture
Treizeknight
Romney's Tirade translated

'I was making a living as a middleman selling 5* gear to people who didn't want work for it and made a 1k to 3k CE profit per piece. Now Three Rings has destroyed my market by selling the gear themselves. Let my tears drown them like a mighty monsoon.'

Economy's that are run by players will always end badly, they ought to put the rest of your lot out of your misery and re-release the old promos via energy deals. Then the only way you'd be able to make a fast buck is being at the mercy of the RNG for lockboxes and UVs.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 21:03
#22
The-Rawrcake's picture
The-Rawrcake
I am anti-social and would

I am anti-social and would prefer it if I interact with NPCs that have no soul than players with one.

+1 to OOO.

-2 to player-ran economies.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 21:08
#23
Rommil's picture
Rommil
@ shoebox

uhh....i've already explored the clockworks. all of it. About 1000x over. '

Look, it kills the economy of the game. They created a OOO monopoly of non-UV'd 5* gear by fixing the price at a rate such that no human player can ever hope or even began to compete with. The player-based economy is down-town spiral knights, and OOO just moved in as wal-mart, and we are now going to die a quick and horrific death. The bazaar will slowly (or quickly) liquidate its remedial goods for as little loss as the forum can.

"but rommil, this gear doesn't have UVs on it! that stuff will still....." Sure, a few novelty shops and the occasional antiques store will sorta survive. But it'll be scarce, far and few between.
this isn't a mistake, just like it wasn't a mistake that the two new items they added are permabound to our characters. its all a subtle trap to take the in-game economy away from us players and position it in such a way that instead of a giant interacting organism, its just 1million individual relationships b/w triple O the player and the players wallet.

Look at the war hammer and DR. Used to be, people would roll take a few shots, some would get vh ctr/asi on the bomb and hammer, they'd unbind and sell to those who HAD TO HAVE VH CTR/ASI (or keep themselves if they were one), ce would change hands there would be lots of interactions, some people would get rich, some rich people would spend their acquired CE to get the items. (but buying max UVs from the randoms lucky enough to get them was always cheaper than trying to do it yourself). But now the new items are perma-bound, so everyone who wants a max UV on it must individually get it themselves. And those who don't really care about that but take a roll and get super lucky, well, they cannot sell it and get more CE to play the game for free.

I'm not trying to be overly cynical, but it really is an insidious plot to force everyone to pay more. Just most don't see it yet. But it is. And this is going to force the price of CE pretty damn high too. just wait and see. By stagnating the player to player commerce CE prices are going to soar.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 21:10
#24
Shoebox's picture
Shoebox
-2 to player-ran

-2 to player-ran economies.

Next Patch:

CE can only be bought with real money and crowns are being phased out in favour of CE. We're also deleting Mist Tanks and making the game charge you $50 upfront for your Proto Gear!

Happy Credit Knights everyone!

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 21:11
#25
Treizeknight's picture
Treizeknight
Oh, and you're warning us out

Oh, and you're warning us out of the goodness of your heart?

Those who have the most to lose in times of change, tend to scream the loudest.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 21:14
#26
Rommil's picture
Rommil
-5

i'm with shoebox.
We have also decided to phase CE out of the game, and you will now enter you CC billing info when you sign up. Your credit card will automatically be charged a rate of 1 cent per second that you are logged in. But the mission interface will still be free when u log in.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 21:15
#27
Shoebox's picture
Shoebox
THE RENT IS TOO DAMN LOW!

Those who have the most to lose in times of change, tend to scream the loudest.

It's a video game, dude.

Nobody has anything to lose except PIXELS.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 21:16
#28
The-Rawrcake's picture
The-Rawrcake
"Look at the war hammer and

"Look at the war hammer and DR. Used to be, people would roll take a few shots, some would get vh ctr/asi on the bomb and hammer, they'd unbind and sell to those who HAD TO HAVE VH CTR/ASI (or keep themselves if they were one), ce would change hands there would be lots of interactions, some people would get rich, some rich people would spend their acquired CE to get the items. (but buying max UVs from the randoms lucky enough to get them was always cheaper than trying to do it yourself). But now the new items are perma-bound, so everyone who wants a max UV on it must individually get it themselves. And those who don't really care about that but take a roll and get super lucky, well, they cannot sell it and get more CE to play the game for free. "

This paragraph-monster-thing makes my heard hurt SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 23:23
#29
Treizeknight's picture
Treizeknight
Because hyperbole is overrated

Romney's logic reminds me of the battle with Zant in Twilight Princess.

As the battle wages on, he becomes more erratic and insane.

@Shoebox
I take it you've never witnessed the splendor and avarice of the Team Fortress 2 black market economy.

Edit: I'd like to know where the personal attacks are because saying you'll get a mod to ban me really fits well in my analogy.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 21:18
#30
Rommil's picture
Rommil
and

to bring it back to perspective for anyone who can't see the forest from the trees

Announcement:
Lastly, it's worth noting that the Supply Depot is built to exist in a world where crafting and unbinding is an important part of Spiral Knights. It is our expectation that the players that choose to use the Supply Depot will be active crafters, unbinders and Auction House patrons like our current players.

Actions:
Create a supply Depot that sales gear at every level cheaper than an actual player can EVEN UNBIND (not to even begin to consider mats and recipe costs).

A complete contradiction from what they claim to "expect" and what they created with this update. OOO cannot begin for a second to stand behind that claim in light of this update.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 21:20
#31
Rommil's picture
Rommil
lol@rawrcake

that was not my most-well constructed paragraph ever, i'll admit XD

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 21:22
#32
Shoebox's picture
Shoebox
Organs are now supported by Steam Trading!

I take it you've never witnessed the splendor and avarice of the Team Fortress 2 black market economy.

If by black market economy you mean people selling their kidneys for hats, then yes.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 21:25
#33
Ultimort
Economy's that are run by

Economy's that are run by players will always end badly, they ought to put the rest of your lot out of your misery and re-release the old promos via energy deals. Then the only way you'd be able to make a fast buck is being at the mercy of the RNG for lockboxes and UVs.

Sorry, I wont play another "free" MMO where I can't compete with the people that can afford to shell out $30+ a month on in game content. Yes, i realize this means that OOO doesn't need to give a damn about me, what with not being a paying customer (i was happy to buy an ele. pass, but i wont pay for gear and missions and god knows what other excuses they come up with to make people pay them).

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 21:26
#34
The-Rawrcake's picture
The-Rawrcake
"that was not my most-well

"that was not my most-well constructed paragraph ever, i'll admit XD"

This sentence makes my head hurt SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO good.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 21:27
#35
Rommil's picture
Rommil
@ treizeknight

personal attacks are uncalled for. please quit and edit your posts or i'll ask a mod to ban you.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 21:47
#36
Kleuse
Sorry, I wont play another

Sorry, I wont play another "free" MMO where I can't compete with the people that can afford to shell out $30+ a month on in game content. Yes, i realize this means that OOO doesn't need to give a damn about me, what with not being a paying customer (i was happy to buy an ele. pass, but i wont pay for gear and missions and god knows what other excuses they come up with to make people pay them).

I agree. In the end, it's all just virtual pixels and if OOO thinks I'm going to rip apart my budget to play their game, then the hell with that. I bought a +15% energy pack and a ele pass on discount simply because I wanted to get to my idea of an endgame faster. Since OOO has eliminated that endgame of marketing, I feel like a victim of the classic bait and switch. Oh well, QQ, etc.

@Treizeknight - If you truly believe that part about player-ran economies ending badly, then you really aught to look at other mmo's out there atm. Eve-online has a RL degree holding economist on staff analyzing it's ingame market just because that aspect is so popular. TERA online, a new game coming out is stealing eve's 'ingame-item-that-equals-30-days-of-gametime' idea just to draw people who like to play virtual markets. That's just two very successful examples of a highly popular mmo play style. To so easily disregard it makes you blindly and willfully ignorant at best or a godawful troll at worst.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 21:52
#37
The-Rawrcake's picture
The-Rawrcake
LOL this was a good laughSo

LOL this was a good laugh

So you are conspiring and trash talking OOO in this entire thread,

and the best option to deal with someone giving you troubles is to call in a mod to come and clean out the personal attacks in this thread????? Which is yours?????

Let us hope when you call in a mod they entirely skip over all of your posts by accident.

(Don't take this as an attack Rommil, I see your logic and agree with most of it :3 I just need to point out something that made me chuckle)

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 21:56
#38
Mejezfeld's picture
Mejezfeld
Calling it now

Certain posters here are sock-puppets set up by whoever in OOO, Steam, or SEGA is making the more blatantly profit-oriented "freeloaders out!" changes.

They have every right to prove to us this isn't the case and to say I'm making libelous statements and pull me off the forums for it though.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 22:00
#39
Rommil's picture
Rommil
I

don't even know how to get a hold of a mod. I wish we had a pm button and i'd have just pm'd u this explanation, lol. Basically, i called treizeknight out for his trollish behavior in the bazaar forum, and then ignored every comment he has ever made since then. I was hoping to chase him out of this thread so we could have at least moderately intelligent discussion.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 22:03
#40
The-Rawrcake's picture
The-Rawrcake
If anyone reads this entire

If anyone reads this entire thread

-30 IQ

I am so sorry for you :(

It screws with the mind.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 22:10
#41
Kleuse
Certain posters here are

Certain posters here are sock-puppets set up by whoever in OOO, Steam, or SEGA is making the more blatantly profit-oriented "freeloaders out!" changes.

As ::tinfoil:: as this is, I can't help but remember thinking the same thing in my previous F2P mmo adventures when an obvious cash grab is introduced. It's hard to tell if the fanboys like rawrcake and treize are just as you say; forum staff alts with the deliberate objective of propping up the game owner's decision in the minds of forum readers. It makes good business sense if you think about it. The staff is already paid to moderate the forums, and this is a backhanded form of moderating/marketing.

In the end though, I like to think it's more likely that there really are people so dedicated (read: addicted) to a game that they will defend every terrible decision to the bitter end.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 22:19
#42
Gwenyvier's picture
Gwenyvier
Everybody is forgetting

Everybody is forgetting something rather important. The supply depot gets more items the further you go in the mission system. I'm in the 7-3 missions right now and I still don't have access to the 5* items. To get 5* items you have to be in the 8-1 to 9-1 missions... in other words you'd already be 4*-5*. This will not stop the sale of higher end gear to lower level players. All it does is allow already 5* players to buy a vanilla item for 3500 CE.

~Gwen

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 22:36
#43
Kleuse
This will not stop the sale

This will not stop the sale of higher end gear to lower level players.

So you are saying that a player will pay a higher CE price (read: unbind price is currently higher than SD price w/o factoring in mats/recipies/etc.) to get a 5* item from someone who unbinds rather than gather the recipies/mats themselves or purchase from the Depot? ::boggle::

You do know what a price floor and a price ceiling is, right?

EDIT: please remember that you are able to get to 8-1 in all 4* gear with help from friends/guild. If you have neither of those you can get there very slowly as a solo 4* geared player.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 22:34
#44
Derpules's picture
Derpules
@Rommil

"If you are someone who makes good money, have a family, enjoy the game and don't want to use up all that enjoyment endlessly grinding, then buying some of your 5* gear is a viable option [. . .] also, no matter who you are, the game only has so many hours of fun in it. How many hours of that fun do you want to waste leveling gear vs. playing with the end-game gear you want to use on the end game content."

I agree entirely, and I was probably overstating the case when I implied that hardly anyone would do it. Still, I contend that the vast majority of P2P traders do not, and will only buy 5* when it's the only way to get a good UV, or when they want SL gear but aren't ready to do SLs. If non-UV 4-5* trading dries up, that will only affect a small proportion of all P2P trades, which are mostly by low-level players for unbound 2-3* gear or by players of all levels for gear with valuable UVs. It will affect the AH even less, since so much AH trading is in 2* trash.

Furthermore, the supply depot's lower prices only help those players who don't have time to grind, no? Maybe the benefit to those players should outweigh the desire of other players to trade in their unwanted 4-5*s for extra CE/cr.

FWIW, I'm not an OOO plant, lol. Just someone who has bought and sold many thousands of CE worth of gear, absolutely *none* of it 4-5*.

(Well, except an MoS with a great UV on it earlier today. But that can't be bought from the depot.)

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 22:52
#45
Kleuse
FWIW, I'm not an OOO plant,

FWIW, I'm not an OOO plant, lol. Just someone who has bought and sold many thousands of CE worth of gear, absolutely *none* of it 4-5*.

Just what a sockpuppet is paid to say! Haha.

The serious part of your post has merit. I agree that not alot of 4-5* non-uv gear is traded and I contend that now it will be completely eradicated in favor of handing over cash directly to OOO. This is the meat of rommil's disagreement. Whether or not it effects a large or small portion of players is irrelevant. Rommil and other were able to play SK whilst spending less $ by trading in this way. Three Rings stepped in and undercut them to a point where this is now impossible.

It's getting more and more difficult to play SK as a "true" F2P game. Unbinding high level gear was one method. Basil runs for recipes to resell was another. Both were destroyed all at the same time an 'expansion' to the game was released for cash purchase only. OOO is telling F2P players to hit the road.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 22:58
#46
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor
Very true. 4 and 5 star items

Very true. 4 and 5 star items are supposed to be rare, right? Thats why the whole unbind thing happened? Right?

This is like looking at the tip of the iceberg though... the problems in SK go far further down than the supply depot.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 23:12
#47
Poopsie's picture
Poopsie
@Gwenyvier

Ignoring CE spent + accessibility level at supply depot, people could just buy 2* to bypass tier 2 and 4* to bypass tier 3 barrier, then they can get 5* sooner or later. So I don't think it will stop them that much. I am just not sure when 4* items would be available after few rank mission.

@The-Rawrcake
This game is MMO, and if you're saying you're anti social, you should at least keep it for yourself. We need to deal with other people eventually almost any day on this game... whether it's bad or good relationship.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 23:13
#48
Derpules's picture
Derpules
Basil runs still work. They're just less profitable.

Ashtail gear recipes still sell, for one. I know, I do it. Also, BTS and other stuff not in the HoH, needless to say. You probably wouldn't rely on rec-selling as a primary source of income any more, but it still helps if you're judicious in your choice.

And Rise and Fall allows any T2 F2P to play indefinitely while making modest profits. 3k gross each time for under 2k in energy costs. Not so bad.

I do feel that OOO has made many missteps recently. I just don't think the depot is one of them. Or rather, I kinda do, but in a different sense, in that I see it as a trap for noobs who don't realise what a bad deal depot prices are. Almost as bad as buying clean, bound gear from other players. . . .

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 23:33
#49
Treizeknight's picture
Treizeknight
Ill-savy merchants like

Ill-savy merchants like Romney tend to hate me because I like to start from positions of strength when negotiating a deal. Perhaps if he took the time to see how experienced merchants counter-haggle with me, and create a deal that both parties agree to, he wouldn't be so fast to levee personal attacks against me, such as accusing me of being a troll. As for my alleged personal attacks against him, I would like to see where that's the case . I'm just making wry observations that he has a lot to lose due to the patch and I'm just enjoying the satisfaction of pointing it out.

@Kleuse That's because stuff like EVE is serious business as well and people in that game are more than likely to track you down and kill you in real life if you renege on a major deal. Second, the fact that a company hires an economist is irrelevant to the argument of player controlled economies. Actually, it favors my side because it shows that the company is more interesting in reading trends to better manipulate to economy to maximize profit. Finally, where does being able to buy time come from? While there is the possibility to create a middle man, it starts and ends with the company. Also make sure people don't blow up your transport when you're moving those credits. Heard someone lost 1.4k in real money that way.

The free market never works unless there are massive safe guards

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 23:53
#50
Gwenyvier's picture
Gwenyvier
@Kleuse

"So you are saying that a player will pay a higher CE price (read: unbind price is currently higher than SD price w/o factoring in mats/recipies/etc.) to get a 5* item from someone who unbinds rather than gather the recipies/mats themselves or purchase from the Depot? ::boggle::"

Seeing as it is well known that crafting your own item is cheaper, yet people have still been doing what you just said... yes, that is exactly what I am saying. Also it is unlikely somebody with access to the later items in the Supply Depot would be the ones buying unbound 5* items, or even the 5* item from the SD of an item they have as 4*. A 4* person might buy a 5* item from a line they haven't been working on though to jump it straight to 5*. It would most likely be somebody in 2-3* who does not have access to them yet who will still buy unbound 4-5* items.

Edit: And just got to the 8-2 missions, you do not get access to 5* items until 8-2, where you would already be close to 5* anyways.

~Gwen

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