Spiral Knights - Most Skilled PvE Guild

Most Skilled PvE Guild

104 replies [Last post]

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 12:19

Strudul

Just curious which guild you guys think is the most skilled at PvE. (A guild that focuses on PvP can still be skilled at PvE. Guilds with PvP priorities should still be considered).

Let me define what I would consider skilled:
-Tier 3
-Ability to clear levels fast
-Ability to clear levels without dying
-Does not require use of health trinkets
-Does not require use of high defence shield (can perform just as well with a Proto shield for example)
-Don't need/ use shivermist
-Stay in fights
-Does not need to purely spam sword charge attacks
-Don't hide away from the fight
-Are aware of their team and don't get their team killed
-Keep their cool in a fight

I can see this getting controversial, so I would like to point out this is not a discussion about what defines "skill", just about guilds/players that fill the criteria stated.

If say there is one amazing player in the guild, but the rest are average, then that guild can not be classed as "skilled" (in my opinion). The majority of players in the guild should be "skilled" in order to count.

This does not define the best guild, as there are many preferable traits that are important to people in a guild.

Hopefully this thread can avoid the usual conflict that occurs :D

Now, discuss....

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 12:57

Mysteryzx

THAT

Is about what I hope to make of Discord......a bunch of non-exploiting, skilled players that know what's going on and how to pay attention to the fight.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 13:25

Xylka-Mkii

Strudul, I really hope this

Strudul, I really hope this thread doesn't get hijacked by rage people.

now to say that criteria...
"-Tier 3
-Ability to clear levels fast
-Ability to clear levels without dying
-Don't use health trinkets
-Use Swiftstrike Buckler or Barbarous Thorn Shield only
-Don't need/ use shivermist
-Stay in fights
-Don't purely spam charge attacks
-Don't hide away from the fight
-Are aware of their team and don't get their team killed
-Keep their cool in a fight"

In order, I am:
Yes
Yes
For the most part. Sometimes AT&T decides to troll my ping.
I use them.
I made challenges in which you have no shield. Only made it a third of the way.
Yes
Yes, so long as we know rushing in like a idiot with a broken shield will kill us.
Yes
Yes
Yes, unless the Slags are trolling us again at Vana
Whoever doesn't do this needs to take a break for a moment and recollect for a strategy

Mind If I post this on my guild forum? I think it would be nice for discussion there to raise their awareness, since only 1 or 2 of them use SK forums besides me.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 14:20

Strudul

@Xylka

"Mind If I post this on my guild forum?"

Go ahead. Maybe put a link to my guide and videos as well :D

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 14:31

Canine-Vladmir

um...Kage No Sensi

i never die whn im with them.
im a Gambit (Guild) and i love my guild but not all of us are skilled (im the guy who wont shut up during a fite)
but yea kage no sensi are pretty good but do violate some of YOUR standards (lots of trinkets and modules). i dont think theres a guild who doess ALL of this
so........

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 14:43

Strudul

@Canine-Vladmir

Nothing wrong with using trinkets as long as they are the Damage Bonus, CTR or ASI ones (modules).

But if you are in need of extra health/ defence, then that is a sign that you aren't as "skilled".

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 14:58

Salad-Dodger

''-Don't need/ use shivermist''
Might as well call it ''Most skilled Guild in FSC'', seeing as shivermist is near enough useless everywhere else but there.

''-Use Swiftstrike Buckler or Barbarous Thorn Shield only''
and how does what shield a person/group of people uses make any difference to how skilled in PvE the guild is?

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 15:05

Strudul

Oh hai muppet

"Might as well call it ''Most skilled Guild in FSC'', seeing as shivermist is near enough useless everywhere else but there."
More reason as to why it shouldn't be used....

"and how does what shield a person/group of people uses make any difference to how skilled in PvE the guild is?"
Why should you need any other shield? SSB and BTS give stat buffs which should be (and are) much more valuable to the more skilled players.
There is no reason for a skilled player to need a different shield. They should be able to keep out of situations that require a shield with better defence and continue attacking.

I would also like to point out that I clearly said that this should not be a discussion about how to define "skilled".

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 15:10

Salad-Dodger

oheystroodewl

Going by the rest of your criteria, a skilled player should be able to handle runs with any shield, including 0-3* shields. Stat buffs and things like UVs shouldn't affect their skill or how they fight. Just saying that I don't think gear should come under criteria for a skilled player, especially in PvE.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 15:24

Cocosnake

of course it's Coup De Grace

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 15:27

#10

Strudul

heyagainmooput

True.

But the point I was trying to make was that using extra items for defence should not be necessary.

I don't think players should need certain items to be called skilled. But there are certain items they really should not use/ need to use.
It isn't "you are skilled if you use X", it is "you are showing a lack of skill if you need to use Y".

I judge UV's slightly differently. You should not need them, but if you have the funds, it makes sense to use them.
However, to me it shows a lack of skill if you prioritise shield and armour UVs over weapon ones.
A need for more defence implies:
-You take a lot of damage
-You are scared of dying
-You are shielding when you could/ should be attacking instead

It is very hard to judge skill because there are just so many variables, but the criteria given, show (to me at least) signs of "skill".

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 15:35

#11

Mysteryzx

I prefer to not have UVs on my armor/shield

Feels like it takes away too much of the "challenge" :P

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 16:10

#12

Cryoworld

I think you mean "Most

I think you mean "Most Skilled PvE Guild According to My Definition of Skill."

Also, I noticed that most of what you want is people that essentially have good connection and played a fairly large amount of bullet hell type games, since you seem to prioritize dodging over controlling.

Besides, whats the problem with shivermist? It's handy for keeping dodgy mobs still and preventing zombies from swarming. Heck, its good in pretty much everywhere that isn't a freeze level. A shivermist in a shadow lair is a great boon, since there often lots of mobs and it's very easy to get swarmed in tight spaces, since most of the floor is covered in traps.

Wouldn't the ones with the most skill be able to do well without trinkets, or any such artificial boosters, such as Swift's ASI or BTB's damage? Why define such specific parameters that are speed over ones that help with survival?

Are you asking for a group that survives while speed-running or one that survives while killing everything?

Why not define it in terms of accomplishments?

Sorry, but this all just seems a bit silly.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 16:41

#13

Juances

"-Don't use health trinkets
-Use Swiftstrike Buckler or Barbarous Thorn Shield only"

So a bomber with some mist bombs (AoA, VT, VV) + volcanic set will never be a pro?
Juances is sad.

Dont need any trinket, hearth pendants are the only appealing things and swtistrike/BTs are useless with this.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 16:48

#14

Strudul

@Cryo

"I think you mean "Most Skilled PvE Guild According to My Definition of Skill."
I did kinda say that

"Also, I noticed that most of what you want is people that essentially have good connection and played a fairly large amount of bullet hell type games, since you seem to prioritize dodging over controlling."
You can control while being offensive. E.g. attacking to cancel attacks whilst knocking enemies into one area.

"Besides, whats the problem with shivermist? It's handy for keeping dodgy mobs still and preventing zombies from swarming. Heck, its good in pretty much everywhere that isn't a freeze level. A shivermist in a shadow lair is a great boon, since there often lots of mobs and it's very easy to get swarmed in tight spaces, since most of the floor is covered in traps."
It is a waste of time/space.
If you continue to attack enemies they can't go anywhere.
If you continue to attack enemies they won't swarm.
Heck, it's useless pretty much everywhere.
If people are skilled enough, they don't need it. They can kill much faster without it and do not get swarmed.
It also limits how you can control mobs when attacking. You can not knock them back, and it becomes harder to attack multiple enemies at once.

"Wouldn't the ones with the most skill be able to do well without trinkets, or any such artificial boosters, such as Swift's ASI or BTB's damage? Why define such specific parameters that are speed over ones that help with survival?"
If skilled you can survive whilst still going fast. You don't need ANY trinket or defence. But since you won't be taking much damage, why waste trinkets on defence. And why not buy damge/asi boosters, it speeds things up and is a sensible choice.
I purposefully charge through spikes/fire or tank attacks if it will speed things up. I know I can take the hits and there are plenty of hearts all over the place. Yet I still don't feel the need to get heart pendants e.t.c.

"Are you asking for a group that survives while speed-running or one that survives while killing everything?"
Anyone can survive while killing everything. Skill shows when you can do it faster and take no damage (or are in control of the damage you take).

"Why not define it in terms of accomplishments?"
Such as?
If you mean things like completed shadow lairs e.t.c, then that is a terrible idea. Most people have done a SL yet there are massive variations in the levels of skill of those players.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 16:44

#15

Strudul

@Juances

I am gonna go ahead and say mist bombing requires no skill...
Sorry but it just doesn't.

Many bombers also bring guns/swords too which will benefit from SSB/BTS and certain trinks.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 16:46

#16

Strudul

@Mystery

I have some UVs on some of my armour because they were cheap and I can afford them.

My primary shield (SSB) has ele low which I got while crafting.

The "challenge" is part of it, but also I prefer to waste my money elsewhere.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 18:02

#17

Mysteryzx

So......

I can't be considered "skillful" then? :(

/cry
/sob

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 18:21

#18

Wyvernblast

listen

Strudul, skill does not depend on gear, at all.

this thread is too opinionated to be taken seriously. the best guilds would have appropriate gear. Not everyone plays the way you want them to and that does not show a lack of skill, instead it shows their better then you, at playing in a different style. whether you meant this to just annoy people or not, welcome to the internet, you just tried to put parameters on something that's completely based on opinions. this thread is going to go nowhere fast.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 18:36

#19

Dancinjen

Once again with this bombing

Once again with this bombing requires no skill? Really? Are we gonna take this route AGAIN?

I have done entire levels, bomb only solo... and that includes only using my shivermist. I in fact do use bombing trinkets now... but i did all this BEFORE i had bombing trinket or gear. I used to do levels solo in like my divine mantel and vog cub cap. lawl. My shield is VERY important to me, but I don't NEED it. Yeah I can do levels without my shield and do a lot of dodging and killing, but that's just silly. It's more efficient to have my shield and trinkets.

I've done bomb only runs to the core with no deaths, and I'm not talking about easy stuff either like zombies. I'm talking fiends and wolvers bomb only. Haze bombing does take skill. It takes knowing where the mobs are going to drop, knowing attack animations, when to dodge when to place a bomb where... what is going to hinder or help the team. Some times I do find it necessary to drop a shivermist. The only reason I use shivermist during vana fights is to control the lag. That may seem a bit silly... but if people are running circles around him and he's hitting and dropping stuff my lap top can't handle that... on top of trying to dodge any fire that appears on the floor. So, when I'm in a run with people that's one thing that I try and ask is to let me use shiver on the vana fight only... or at least tell me ahead of time that they don't want shiver so I can equip other things that will make me useful to the fight.

I do carry a sword most of the time that can help me in sticky situations if i need it... it's mainly for breaking crystals and treasure boxes so i don't have to keep planting bombs over and over to break them. As for actual mob fights, nope I'm pretty much bomb only.

I can say swords take no skill. I am a good swordswoman but I don't because it's too easy to do. I don't even have anything that's for swords. I jsut find it boring and easy. I like bombs because I have to strategically place them. Swords are just slash and hack to me and no fun, but that's just my opinion.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 18:42

#20

Mysteryzx

YAY

I'm being defended :D

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 19:31

#21

Hetero

skill curve on this game is

skill curve on this game is so low that this topic is only fodder for jokes. You can literally solo all content in this game in sub par gear, there is no race to clear content etc because any new content is cleared on release day, essentially this thread is moot. hth

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 19:33

#22

Iron-Volvametal

...

My Urge to Respond in this Thread is so Massive, but I can't, because the GMs put a Shock Collar on my Neck for "Trolling" his Last Thread.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 20:30

#23

Eldibs

To avoid causing/being a part

To avoid causing/being a part of rage, I will just say that, in your definition of skill, maybe change "Doesn't use X" to "Doesn't need to use X." The reasoning behind that change should be obvious.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 20:42

#24

Phnxbane

Yay for the KnS mention :D

-Bane Ω

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 21:33

#25

Ah-Bard

Had done proto helm armor and

Had done proto helm armor and shield with regular weapon and 2 sword dmg trinket in fsc. Died twice cause fire hurts and default is like 7 bars?

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 03:06

#26

Metagenic

rofl

So a bomber wearing Mad Bomber in a shadow + status stratum has no skill? Rofl. He evidently does think bombing in general is for noobs.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 04:08

#27

Alice-In-Pyroland

Hetero speaks the truth. And

Hetero speaks the truth. And in the small range of skill that does lie within the game, utilizing generic swordsman sets with asi and dmg bonuses isn't difficult whatosever, the sheer speed of your shield cancelling ensures you don't get hit. If you desperately want to prove a brometer for skill, playing without the ability to shield cancel whatsoever would be a far better display, even if entirely arbitary.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 05:06

#28

Our-Little-Ajo

I don't know if I'm good

I really don't know if I'm good at all, but I think the game is easy when clear lvls is about.

I do runs just with my brother, and without shield, because (i don't know if this it is true) he thinks that going without shield increases luck, and you get more and better items.

For me is really fun go kill any boss without shield.

I'm not saying I'm good at all, I do a Boss run once a week, but I do it that way and without much trouble.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 07:17

#29

Strudul

Well that didn't take long.

@Mystery
You may be skilled, but that does not mean you have to apply your skill all the time. Skill is about having the ability to do something. Someone could do runs in the most defensive set, but because they do not need it, they can still be considered "skilled".

@Wyvern
I never said skill depends entirely on gear. Everyone seems to be getting hung up on "Use Swiftstrike Buckler or Barbarous Thorn Shield only".
I should probably re-word this to "does not require very defensive shields but has the sense to use the most advantageous shield"?
I never said people should play how I want them to. But you can not honestly say that holding shield and walking around takes skill....

@Dan
Haze bombing does not require skill <_<

"My shield is VERY important to me, but I don't NEED it."
There we go then, feel free to call yourself skilled.

" Haze bombing does take skill. It takes knowing where the mobs are going to drop, knowing attack animations, when to dodge when to place a bomb where... what is going to hinder or help the team."
This is experience/knowledge (although most of SK is experience/knowledge) and not really skill.
Anyone with a good amount of experience in the game could bomb with ease.

"The only reason I use shivermist during vana fights is to control the lag. That may seem a bit silly... but if people are running circles around him and he's hitting and dropping stuff my lap top can't handle that... on top of trying to dodge any fire that appears on the floor."
Lag is something I can't fit in anywhere, so I am just gonna ignore it for this thread. Having lag doesn't make you less skilled, but it makes it harder to prove your skill.
Would you say that using shivermist in this situation requires skill.....I think not.

"I jsut find it boring and easy. I like bombs because I have to strategically place them. Swords are just slash and hack to me and no fun, but that's just my opinion."
No offence, but it sounds like you use swords like a noob with no "skill". There is much more than just "slash and hack". Yes, using swords only really requires hacking and slashing, but there are definitely things that a "skilled" player has to consider which I have covered before.

@Hetero
Skill curve is low, yet there are so many people that I would have to class as "unskilled". You can not say everyone is on the same level.

@Eldibs
I do agree. Should have thought it through a bit more.

@Metagenic
I don't think any class is for noobs, but I do find gunning and bombing easy and boring.

@Echoez
I have done multiple runs without shields (due to forgetting to equip them or the shields being broken)
This is definitely harder, but I still managed to do T3 arenas solo.

@Feller
I could not judge without seeing you play :/
Playing without a shield implies a decent level of skill, but it depends if you are actually still getting in there and attacking or if you're running away and just spamming charge attacks.

I am pretty sure running without a shield does nothing to drop rate....

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 10:56

#30

Rangerwillx

Staying on topic..(I very rarely get into arguments of this sort on the forum) I think Apathy is the most skilled in PvE and PvP.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 07:34

#31

Griseolar

Topic title should have been

Topic title should have been "Most skilled PvE Guild according to MY opinions (which are facts)". Just saying.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 08:13

#32

Strudul

@Rangerwill

But.... The people I know in Apathy fall into the criteria I set... This would mean... That... Maybe... D:

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 10:13

#33

Nowaaymaan

Here's my little extensive

Here's my little extensive analysis on many of the popular guilds. I'm not trying to offend anyone and won't respond to someone who's been scarred by reading it and feels the need to reply. This is only my view on the many guilds in Spiral Knights.

Guilds who do a lot of random recruiting won't meet this criteria. Several of their players tend to be below average.
-Knightmare
-Coup De Grace
-KaD.
Etc. (you know which ones you are)

These are the guilds who stand out to me.

-The Ivy League: After many players branched off from Coup De Grace, this guild had several good members. I'm not sure if they've turned out like the majority of the popular guilds and randomly recruited people. This guild may be a good candidate.

-Guild: Many people think this guild is very good. I completely disagree. Several of the people I've played with from this guild are below average, and the members that are actually good or fairly decent like to troll. I remember responding to four different members from Guild on Exile's sword speedrun (two I know were from Guild, the other two claimed to be). Every dislike that popped up resulted right after a member from Guild decided to troll. How ironic. This may be off-topic but it's impacted how I view this guild greatly. You guys should recruit people who know how to conduct themselves, be it in-game or somewhere else.

-Apathy: This guild has so many great PvE and PvP players in it. I've played with so many of them and they all seem to know exactly what they're doing. They also fit each point in your criteria.

-Order of Venus: Again, many great members with only a few unskilled. I'm pretty sure that Rhip trains the unskilled. I've enjoyed playing with many members from this guild.

-Grundel Warriors: These guys are great in PvP, and also good in PvE. I've never seen any of them run with a Shivermist.

There may be more that I missed, but I can't think of them. Also, lay off Strudul guys. This is how he thinks of skill in Spiral Knights.

Edit: I forgot to mention Unity. This guild also has many great players in it.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 10:16

#34

Strudul

@Nowaaymaan

This is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you for actually answering the question (with a really good answer).

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 17:28

#35

Aiolya

Yeah well, good luck runing

Yeah well, good luck runing Dark City D24-28 with a swiftstrike buckler.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 18:35

#36

Njthug

I don't think this post was

I don't think this post was needed at all the best GUILD in this game is Three Rings, unless you can somehow play better and 3 hit vanna with a crow-bar not take any damage, oh did I add they have striker ability as well....

Yes, I am sorry Reign of Choobski, Knightmare, Echo of Sausage, Uniting, Coup De Love, Order of Viagra, One Knight Stand, etc. do not match up to the skills of the guild called Three Rings.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 18:42

#37

Iron-Volvametal

^Win.^

'Nuff said.

*BBzzzZZZZZzzzzZZztTtTtTTTT!!!*

Gah, fudge this Collar!

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 18:44

#38

Wyvernblast

@ strudul which is why gear

@ strudul
which is why gear shouldnt even be listed as a requirement for skill.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 16:02

#39

Xylka-Mkii

Ignore this post

[Erased for good.]

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 20:28

#40

The-Rawrcake

Strudul is the guy who said

Strudul is the guy who said that anyone who does not wear Wolver line armor deserves to be shot.

Then continues to say how people using certain gear aren't skilled?

Take a hint and never take his threads seriously... he is a complete joke, and he doesn't even try to be...

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 21:13

#41

Dancinjen

Do I have the definition of

Do I have the definition of skill wrong?

Let me check...

(goes to check)...

As defined on dictionary.com

skill1 [skil] Show IPA
noun
1.
the ability, coming from one's knowledge, practice, aptitude, etc., to do something well: Carpentry was one of his many skills.
2.
competent excellence in performance; expertness; dexterity: The dancers performed with skill.
3.
a craft, trade, or job requiring manual dexterity or special training in which a person has competence and experience: the skill of cabinetmaking.
4.
Obsolete . understanding; discernment.
5.
Obsolete . reason; cause.

Oh look..

DING DING DING there is knowledge! Part of having skill is knowledge. A part of bombing is knowing where things need to be placed.

I know I'm mocking you in a sort of mean way... I feel like you create these kinds of threads to be a show off. This thread doesn't have the effect that you're wanting here. You're saying... look these people are good according to what I say is good, because I'm awesome and you all should only ever listen to anything I have to say because the only opinion that matters is mine and the only time you should have an opinion is when I give it to you. I'm not saying that is your intentions... or you're that way at all. To get the effect that you're wanting, the kind of discussion you intended... the topic could have been approached sooo much differently.

For example:

What do you consider makes a good PvE guild and why?

I think a good PvE guild is a guild that works together to achieve goals in the game. A guild that will teach and learn from each other. Where the Officer team and veterans have good knowledge of the game and the community.

To me.. knowledge and experience is skill.

To say guns, bombs, and swords are better than any other I think is silly. Which is the point I, sadly, attempted to make when I said swords were easy and all they are is hack and slash... which I personally feel that way... and thinking that way is okay... but at the same time I'm not going to call people who are sword only less skillful. My type of thinking is different and therefore I don't find any pleasure in using swords.

It's like someone being an auditory learner and calling someone unintelligent for being a hands on learner because they don't get it until they actually see it and do it themselves. It's just silly. For me, I get mentally overwhelmed when there is too much going on in the screen. I usually do better in smaller parties. Like a party of one or two. In bombing I can look at everything from a wider perspective and gather everything up in one area and bomb them. I have different tactics that I use for different situations... when it comes to swords I get overwhelmed by the amount of things on the screen if it's more than five... just how my brain functions. I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels this way. But I'm sure people that sword only have their own special tactic they use with their shield canceling. I'm not all up on that shield canceling. I try not to shield unless I really have to, because it stops my charges when bombing.

Sorry gunners, I don't know much about gunning because I don't gun... ever. I'm pretty sure I would have the same reaction I do with swording. But i love having a good gunner in a team. Usually when I am on a run with just one other I want someone with a gun.

Basically, can we stop this whole haze bombing or whatever has no skill because I think it's silly to say that about any class. Every class has their purpose and their strong suit. Plus, when you're trying to actually have a conversation thread, such as this topic, it gets EVERYTHING off topic.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 21:34

#42

Traevelliath

...

No offense... but this thread makes me want to reach through my computer screen and strangle you.

How does a player get "skilled" at a game? Well, they play a game a lot, correct? What happens when you play Spiral Knights a lot? Well either you are throwing yourself blindly at Lockdown (and most likely coming out as a bloody smear on the other end), or you are running around the clockworks, gathering crowns and shiny materials for later use. What do you do with said crowns and shiny materials? You MAKE ITEMS!

Who would play Spiral Knights FREQUENTLY enough to become "skilled" at the game, while not spending any of their hard earned money on some nice loot? The only reason people tend to target good gear as a sign of a poorly skilled player is either when said player is goofing off, or they bought their way to where they are. Both situations are RARE occasions, and its unfair on people like myself who poured 760+ hours into this game... and now you are calling me unskilled because I like having a Penta-Heart Trinket? You are calling me unskilled because I like a Shivermist user in a FSC run? You are calling me unskilled because I use a shield that can at least block ONE attack in Tier 3? You are calling me unskilled because I died several times in a Red Roarmulus Twin run?

......

I'm going to go drown a puppy now

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 21:37

#43

Milkman

:tcejbuS

After much deliberation I have come up with a list of best PVE guilds:

One Knight Stand: These guys are so good that nothing (whether person or monster or inanimate object) can survive to see the sun rise the next morning.

Big Black Guildo: I mean seriously. They are big and black. When you see these guys you wanna get out the way. Unfortunately monsters aren't smart enough to do so.

Elephant Balls Posse: Ordinary posses are scary enough. So you definitely don't want to mess with an Elephant Balls Posse.

Smelly Panties: Seriously these guys stink. I don't know why I even mentioned them.

Big Juicy Melons: With a pair of these, you can rule the world. Devilites especially fear this guild.

Echo of Sausage: Sausage is dangerous enough at the best of times. Nobody has lived to tell the tale when their echoes are about.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 00:24

#44

Strudul

@Nj
How is Three Rings the most skilled guild? Maybe you don't understand skill, but usually it is not skilful to use god mode e.t.c
I have not seen one show of skill from any GM, but it would be nice to see them to make a video of them playing properly.
Nice try though <_<

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 03:31

#45

Metagenic

Wow

I can't believe I once defended this guy against people calling him an opinionated wolver clone. Guess I was wrong. What he's trying to say here in a nutshell:

"the most skilled PVE guild must be one full of swordsmen because gunners and bombers don't count as skilled so yeah…"

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 04:46

#46

Hadn

...

Technically you wouldn't need any special gear at all to be classified as "skilled".

A guild who uses Proto Armor, 2 Weapon slots (with a choice of 2 out of the 3 proto weapons) and a proto shield would be deemed the "most skilled".

This game is about patterns, any gear better than proto would mean you are needing something "extra" to assist your skill.

Stupid thread is stupid.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 05:23

#47

The-Rawrcake

Strudul.He was joking. Calm

Strudul.

Nj was joking. Calm down. It is possible to joke in your threads, mainly because they are complete jokes, such as yourself...

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 06:45

#48

Strudul

@Wyvern
If you look, you will realise gear is not listed as a requirement for skill, but the opposite.

@Rawrcake
Using wolver is common sense, not skill.

@Dan
"Part of having skill is knowledge. A part of bombing is knowing where things need to be placed."

There are multiple definitions for words, which is why for the majority of my posts is has had "skill" in quotation marks. Knowledge does play a large part, but knowing where to place bombs requires very little knowledge.

"I know I'm mocking you in a sort of mean way... I feel like you create these kinds of threads to be a show off. This thread doesn't have the effect that you're wanting here. You're saying... look these people are good according to what I say is good, because I'm awesome and you all should only ever listen to anything I have to say because the only opinion that matters is mine and the only time you should have an opinion is when I give it to you. I'm not saying that is your intentions... or you're that way at all. To get the effect that you're wanting, the kind of discussion you intended... the topic could have been approached sooo much differently."

Please do continue.

I am not sure how this is my showing off....? If anything I am doing the exact opposite. I am asking people there opinions on who is skilled.
It could have been approached differently, but if I don't define what I am looking for then a good answer can not be acquired.
Think of the OP as my requirements, the idea is to find a solution that fits those requirements, not change them. You can suggest alternatives, but in the end, the goal is to fulfil the requirements. So far only one person has really managed to do that.

"What do you consider makes a good PvE guild and why?"

I don't want to know what makes a good guild, I can work that out for myself. I clearly said at the top this is not about what makes a good guild.

"To say guns, bombs, and swords are better than any other I think is silly."

But one can be classed as better when given certain requirements. Unfortunately as soon as requirements are set, every starts to cry.

" thinking that way is okay"

And that is your opinion and you can think whatever you like and I won't stop you.
But you have to see the hypocrisy that when I voice my opinion everyone turns on me (which is pretty amusing by the way)

" I usually do better in smaller parties"

I often agree with this as when you are alone you can control everything and you aren't being sabotaged by your team. In order to be truly effective as a team you have to build that chemistry.
For example, Me and Mister-chilled didn't run together for a long time and had become unsynced. But after doing several runs with each other, we now function perfectly together. We both know exactly what the other is doing and doing FSC has become more of a flawlessly executed dance routine rather than a fight.

@Traevelliath
"No offense... but this thread makes me want to reach through my computer screen and strangle you."

You have got problems, get help.

"Who would play Spiral Knights FREQUENTLY enough to become "skilled" at the game, while not spending any of their hard earned money on some nice loot? The only reason people tend to target good gear as a sign of a poorly skilled player is either when said player is goofing off, or they bought their way to where they are. Both situations are RARE occasions, and its unfair on people like myself who poured 760+ hours into this game... and now you are calling me unskilled because I like having a Penta-Heart Trinket? You are calling me unskilled because I like a Shivermist user in a FSC run?"

When did I say you shouldn't buy new stuff? I just said you should prioritise what you buy.
A more skilled player would (and should) take offensive trinkets over defensive. They don't take much damage and don't have to worry about death, so can focus on just killing stuff faster.
A less skilled player on the other hand needs to extra defence/health in order to survive. The majority of shiver users use it to lower the chance of getting hit because they lack the ability to play effectively without it. A more skilled player does not need a good shield as they have the ability to keep out of situations where they will have the need for tanky shields.

"You are calling me unskilled because I use a shield that can at least block ONE attack in Tier 3? You are calling me unskilled because I died several times in a Red Roarmulus Twin run?"

You tell me.... I still die in UFSC, usually due to a disagreement of where the fire actually is, but I would not say that is due to lack of skill. I could line up my movement for hours and still clip the fire.

@Metagenic
I'm gonna say the skill cap on gunners and bomber is much lower as there is much less to worry about. They are usually further away from direct combat, or are just running through.

@Hadn
"Technically you wouldn't need any special gear at all to be classified as "skilled"."

True....

"A guild who uses Proto Armor, 2 Weapon slots (with a choice of 2 out of the 3 proto weapons) and a proto shield would be deemed the "most skilled"."

Not quite....
People that CAN do that, may be counted as skilled. But even then, is running around in circles shooting them skilful? Is hitting once and running away skilful? They would still need to play skilfully.
I would consider a guild of people that ONLY do this either stupid, bored, or have waaaay too much time on their hands.

@Rawrcake
Congratulations Captain Obvious, you have saved the day once again. We are forever in your debt.

(In case you couldn't tell.... this is a joke too.)

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 07:51

#49

Hadn

@Strudul

Having extra damage (offense) is also considered a defense, seeing as you don't have to avoid as much and kill things quicker making your (not yours personally so don't find this an attack on you.) "skill" less... skillful(?)

Edit: Also I'm not claiming I'm skilled (before you sail that boat again). I use gear that makes the game easier so I can casually play but still reach the same outcomes. I'm lazy, go figure.

------------Personal Opinion Bubble------------

Being able to dodge attacks takes more "skill" than being able to release a charged voltedge at a group of enemies.

Sure every "class" has its advantages but Swords have no disadvantages...

- bombers are left vulnerable while charging (takes "skill" to avoid attacks while charging),
- gunners have next to no knockback which gets enemies crowded quicker (takes "skill" to avoid attacks / avoid getting cornered)
- swords ... well.. they have knockback with any heavy 2 swing sword, plus they can shield cancel between attacks so where is the disadvantage?

Having no disadvantages doesn't equal skill. Sure it is the most logical route, but being able to survive as a gunner / bomber takes more of an effort and/or "skill".

------------Personal Opinion Bubble------------

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 07:30

#50

Metagenic

Which proves my point

I'm gonna say the skill cap on gunners and bomber is much lower as there is much less to worry about.

If you refuse to think that anyone other than a swordsman has skill, then you might as well not expect people to take you seriously.

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