Barbarous Thorn Shield is just better in almost every way. Are they that lazy?
Why do people still use Aegis?
Fri, 04/20/2012 - 09:24
Fri, 04/20/2012 - 09:38
#2
maybe
a little of both lol.
Fri, 04/20/2012 - 10:46
#3
Because missions give all the
Because missions give all the recipe, people don't like to think too much and it's cheaper than alternatives.
Fri, 04/20/2012 - 11:08
#4
Maybe they just want to make
Maybe they just want to make sure they have extra swords on them & they are too poor for side blades and parrying blades.
Fri, 04/20/2012 - 12:30
#5
It could be anything!
Objectively, BTS is the better shield, but there are plenty of reasons why someone might use the Aegis. They might be cheap, lazy, want to be different, just like the way it looks, etc.
Granted, there are no good gameplay-related reasons to use Aegis over BTS, but I can definitely understand why people would do so.
Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:56
#6
SKILLS > GEAR
Because in Spiral Knights SKILLS > GEAR
And the difference between those two shields is so small that it's rather a matter of aesthetics preference which one you take.
If you are skilled player you can beat any level with any of those shields. If you are not skilled enough you will fail no matter which shield you take.
Fri, 04/20/2012 - 14:05
#7
...
Dem Shiny Knifes.
And because BTS came after Aegis. All OOO has to do is make the Cobalt Line different in terms of Defence.
Like High Normal & some-what Lowish Elemental/Shadow/Piercing Defence.
Fri, 04/20/2012 - 16:36
#8
So it seems like everyone
So it seems like everyone agrees that it's laziness.
Fri, 04/20/2012 - 16:58
#9
no reason to use it
If you insist on a piercing shield for a non-swordsman, Royal Jelly Shield is better than Aegis in every way possible…
Fri, 04/20/2012 - 18:38
#10
Normal/Piercing Shields
The four 5* Piercing/Normal Shields are all slightly different:
- Aegis- Slightly higher Normal defense than Piercing defense though it has the greatest balance between the two.
- Barbarous Thorn Shield- Again, slightly higher Normal defense than Piercing defense. Lowest total defense of all four but brings a Sword Damage Bonus: Medium to make up for it.
- Royal Jelly Shield- Higher Piercing defense than Normal defense. Also resistant to Stun and Sleep.
- Ironmight Plate Shield- Much greater Normal defense than Piercing defense. Also resistant to Stun.
Taken from the Spiral Knights Wiki. This is all based on the assumption that the stat bars are correct. Shield Health is supposedly the same for all Shields.
So as can be seen, Royal Jelly and Ironmight Plate specialize even further in how they defend, Barbarous Thorn trades defense for offensive Sword power, and the Aegis is like the reference point or baseline for the others being more flexible for its use (whether or not this is enough to really make a difference however is debatable).
Fri, 04/20/2012 - 19:01
#11
It's cheaper to get
Fri, 04/20/2012 - 19:30
#12
Batabii did you just lazily
Batabii did you just lazily ignore all of the comments explaining that there are other reasons?
Aesthetics is one. BTS look like complete crap, some people don't use swords, then you have to factor in money after you consider those two things. Also, this is a skill > gear game as someone said. Keep that in mind.
Saying "Everyone agrees that it's laziness" is just ignorant. Especially because you assume all take the BTS in your OP.
Personally, Royal Jelly Shield all the way for non-swordies.
Fri, 04/20/2012 - 19:37
#13
You gotta be kidding me. BTS
You gotta be kidding me. BTS looks badass, it's the best looking shield in the game as far as I'm concerned. Not only that, but the Crest of Almire, which looks almost the same (only better), is STILL more useful than Aegis, so I really don't see how "it looks cool" is a reason. Second, all 5* shields in the game are the same cost. Surprise! And the Bristling Buckler is essentially free. Also, the majority of players has at least one sword, and if you don't, it pretty much cripples you against close range threats. Even so, the tiny bit of extra defense that Aegis provides is not at all worth lacking all stat resistances and bonuses of every other piercing shield.
BTW skill may be important, but it can only get you so far. Why handicap yourself with terrible gear?
Fri, 04/20/2012 - 20:58
#14
@batabii
1) It is cheaper because they give you the 2* and all the recipes for free with missions, compared to having to farm snarby for the 2* and then spamming Basil or paying out the bum for the other 3 recipes.
2) Aesthetics is an argument for another time, both look pretty good.
3) Every player is given a proto sword at the start of the game. Whether or not they decide to follow up on that is their choice.
4) There is literally only one, count 'em (one), line out of ALL weapons that is debatably less effective at close range. That is the Pulsar (sans charge).
5) BTS also has no status resists.
6) There is absolutely no limit to how far skill can take you in this game. People have soloed FSC in full proto gear, weapons and all. Not having flashy specialized bonuses is not a handicap by any means.
Fri, 04/20/2012 - 21:10
#15
Batabii, it's called having
Batabii, it's called having an opinion. Not everyone likes using the same stuff you do. Some may want it for purely aesthetic reasons. Even if it may be better, some people prefer to be frugal. You do get the recipes for the entire Aegis line for free now, which makes it one of the cheapest shields to make, since you no longer have to buy the recipes.
Is that not clear? You do NOT have to spend 39k cr (3, 4, and 5* recipes.) on recipes. (Because you get them all for beating missions. That fact that you get these recipes for free means that you spend less cr making an Aegis than you do any other shield)
Barbarous thorn shield might be better than Aegis, but it also costs quite a lot more to make than the Aegis does. (By that, I mean that you have to buy the recipes, which have inflated prices.) The price for buying the BTS recipes is 61.7k cr (also the 3, 4, and 5* recipes(Of which also vary, since people price recipes differently)) from AH, since it is a boss recipe and cannot be purchased via Hall Of Heroes. (Also, this takes into account people that look for the cheapest buy price, and don't bet on recipes.)
Fri, 04/20/2012 - 21:47
#16
@dukeplatypus
1)Granted, but it's well worth it, and the missions still cost energy. Plus you only need to beat snarby 3 times to get the shield, and he's only a tier 1 boss.
2)Fine
3)What do you mean "follow up"? Proto sword is a useless one-off that's basically for training purposes and little else. There is literally no sword in the entire game worse than proto.
4)If you try to spam a gun at point black, you're likely to get pounded. Guns don't tend to push enemies (or yourself) at close range. As for bombs, they take too long to charge, all but guaranteeing you'll take a hit, even after the charge buff. The only bomb I recommend using against greavers is the RSS. Even the DBB is risky unless you can catch them by surprise.
5)That's because sword attack bonus medium. At least it has SOME bonus, unlike aegis, which only has a SLIVER more defense than BTS.
6)completely missing the point. Aegis is still a bad shield. And just because people HAVE doesn't mean most will, nor is it ultimately worth the challenge. For the record, how many people have done vana with full noob gear, NO weapon slots or trinkets, and still not revived? Because some people seem perfectly willing to waste 1000s of CE, which defeats the point of a noob gear challenge.
@cryoworld
OK so you save 39kcr on recipes. But you waste about 91,000 crowns on the energy it costs to craft it! And if people weren't so impatient, they could easily get BTS recipes for a flat 40kcr. It's well worth the wait. In the meantime, as people have mentioned, there's plenty of adequate shield recipes in hall of heroes.
Fri, 04/20/2012 - 22:33
#17
@BatabiiThat's a poor
@Batabii
That's a poor argument to use. All 5* shields, weapons, armor, etc cost the same amount of CE to make. That is an irrelevant point to make.
The Aegis recipes (in addition to the cobalt, levi, valiance, and nitro) are all give to you upon beating the respective missions. That makes the Aegis the single cheapest 5* shield in the game. The reason? You need to only pay for the CR, CE, and mats to make the shield. You do not need to buy the recipe for the Aegis, nor its previous lines.
Also, Basil is a finicky prick that does not like to have the recipes in stock, and since it cost 50 ce to meet him once, it becomes a arduous journey, if not an expensive one, to go down repeatedly to basil to try and find the recipes you need. For many players, it is simply easier to just buy it off of AH, as many are not willing to repeatedly run the clockworks if the recipe they want is within easy reach for a couple thousand extra crown.
Fri, 04/20/2012 - 23:24
#18
That's like saying "a toaster
That's like saying "a toaster is cheaper than a microwave". While technically true, you get what you pay for.
And why would you constantly spend 50ce to see basil? Don't you ever join other parties?
Fri, 04/20/2012 - 23:45
#19
You should just accept that a
You should just accept that a lot of people are not rational or informed. They just go for the easy path.
It's a shame but that's it. As someone famous said : "Imagine the QI of the average voter. Now imagine that half of the population is more stupid than that".
Sat, 04/21/2012 - 06:49
#20
a lot of people are not rational or informed
Yeah that's pretty much what I was thinking all along.
Sat, 04/21/2012 - 08:35
#21
BTS looks like utter crap.I
BTS looks like complete utter crap. crap. crap.
I prefer the Ageis's aesthetics much more.
But that is only an opinion, much like how you think the BTS looks awesome.
Sat, 04/21/2012 - 12:20
#22
Why the hate for Aegis?
I use
Why the hate for Aegis?
I use it because I like it, I dont care for a sword damage bonus. There is more to weapons/armor/shields than just their stats.
Sat, 04/21/2012 - 21:03
#23
what? that's pretty much the
what? that's pretty much the entire point of shields. And shields don't have costume slots either. So you're pretty much making the game harder just to look pretty.
Sat, 04/21/2012 - 21:56
#24
Then why isnt everyone wearing wolver?
Sat, 04/21/2012 - 22:08
#25
I like to look pretty, now
I like to look pretty, now shut up.
Sat, 04/21/2012 - 23:56
#26
wolver is overused and
wolver is overused and there's other resistances besides piercing or fire.
Sun, 04/22/2012 - 05:07
#27
tl;dr the ending bits.
Oh Yes, lets ALL OPTIMIZE, Batabii, then we can ALL be Snarbies, Vogs, and Skolvers. Cause that doesn't make the game boring AT ALL.... =.=
Yes, lets ALL F*#%ING Optimize so YOU dont have to make stupid threads about BASHING others opinions.
Here, this thread in a nut shell: "BTSis WAAAAy better, cause you get bonus, so everything else SUX :P I also dont give a $!## about YOUR opinions, Cause optimizing is BETTER. So F^&% you."
End of story.
Not only am I famous, but I inspire Hipster...ness... Yeah.
~Tsu
Sun, 04/22/2012 - 07:20
#28
Batabii are you Juances in
Batabii are you Juances in disguise?
Oh yew.
Sun, 04/22/2012 - 09:47
#29
My look at this...
First off, I like to point out that the Aegis not being better than the other peirce shields does not imply that it's BAD. I use it a lot in the right situation and its been fairly good.
As for the reasons why I got the shield...some of it might be considered what everyone else has said. However, I'd like to point out that originally, before the missions, I did have some interest in getting BTS over Aegis, and always kept 25k CR on me very often in case I cam across it. HOWEVER, I never considered it a huge priority, and often found myself spending my money on other gear that I actually wanted or needed.
And when missions did come out and I got Aegis for free, I was actually very tempted to craft it. Not just because it was free or for the asthetics (Which I do prefer over BTS, but not saying that BTS is utter crap either. It's just a preference on my end), but because I had yet to get a 5* pierce defense shield. Now I already had my hands on the 4* version of the Targe, but in all honesty, I did not consider +medium attack a huge priority; there were other things I simply wanted to craft, and I had a lot more fun doing it than, say, doing runs in the clockworks or getting money for a single shield.
So yes, in short, for me, I got Aegis because it was much less of a hassle, and that I've been needing a decent 5* pierce defense shield for a while. In all honesty, I don't find myself handicapped with it; handicapped might as well imply that I'm missing a leg, or in the games case, I'm using a 3* weapon in a tier 3, at the last depth. That's not the case here.
Mon, 04/23/2012 - 07:16
#30
I still like aegis better (my
I still like aegis better (my aegis stands roarmulus laser, YEAH!!), I mean I use bombs, so I like a flexible shield (so that if I'm bored I can sleep on my shield)
Mon, 04/23/2012 - 08:02
#31
Oh yeah, we all forgot this
Oh yeah, we all forgot this common misconception : most beginners think Aegis is the all-rounder shield, because you can easily find the recipes.
@Supermind it's not. All-rounder shields are those with only normal : VPS/APS/Omega Shell.
Mon, 04/23/2012 - 12:37
#32
Because I needed a shield
Because I needed a shield with Piercing defense and using the free Aegis recipe the mission system gave me is cheaper than grinding for the BTS (pointless as I don't use Swords) or the Royal Jelly Shield (Basically the same and doesn't look as good)
Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:24
#33
With normal+pierce
@batiboy--If you are not a sword user aegis is better vs Jelly King
.....
hehe see what i did :P
Mon, 04/23/2012 - 23:00
#34
@Pawn
Aegis is the same thing as BTS, just with no sword DMG boost.
Tue, 04/24/2012 - 02:33
#35
I still am hearing the same
I still am hearing the same arguments: "it's pretty" and "I'm too lazy to craft something that I don't just get the recipe handed to me for".
I'm still not seeing any reason why people waste CE costs on a shield that is ultimately outclassed by nearly any other 5* shield.
BTW I just got my Crest of Almire today. So much better looking than Aegis :P
Tue, 04/24/2012 - 02:37
#36
Selective reading
The "laziness" argument is more properly the "reduced cost" argument. That, plus the "I use no swords" argument, seems reasonable enough to me. The other pierce shields offer a negligible increase in defence, and many people don't really value Stun on a shield. Why *not* Aegis, then?
Tue, 04/24/2012 - 02:47
#37
There's plenty of other easy
There's plenty of other easy to get 5* shields, as mentioned earlier. Basil is NOT a requirement for most of them.
People who don't value stun have never faced vanaduke (though, arguably, you won't be taking a shield to vanaduke anyway). Besides, wouldn't you rather play it safe and get a shield with SOME bonus?
Also, I'm pretty sure a large majority of players use at least one sword. If you don't you're really leaving yourself open to close range attacks. There's guns that are bomb substitutes and bombs that are gun substitutes, but neither is a good substitute for a sword.
Tue, 04/24/2012 - 02:54
#38
Like I said
reduced cost, not ease. Those recs are free.
Obviously you won't take a piercing shield other than BTS to Vana. It's quite reasonable not to be too concerned about stun on levels where you'd actually use a piercing shield. There are lumbers, and that's about it.
I'm pretty sure you're right about the proportions. Yet there *are* pure gunners and bombers out there. Quite a few of them.
On a non-stats note, I'm still not sure why you dismiss the "it's pretty" justification. Is it really so inexplicable that someone might sacrifice some stats because they like the look of it?
Tue, 04/24/2012 - 04:17
#39
In this game, heck yes.
In this game, heck yes. Helmet and Armor has costume slots. Shields do not. Would you equip a horrible weapon like the Wrench Wand for a t3 run just because it "looks good"? I hope not.
Tue, 04/24/2012 - 04:28
#40
No
because I'd get destroyed. But I certainly hope I'm capable of running T3 with a shield that's identical but for lack of sword dmg med.* The analogy isn't appropriate.
Huge performance loss for aesthetics? I wouldn't do it (although some might!). Small performance loss for aesthetics (and to save some cr)? Eh, why not.
*Which, as pointed out, isn't even useful for some people. For those people, they're just giving up stun resistance, which isn't a huge deal.
Tue, 04/24/2012 - 05:20
#41
Few reasons
1. Cheaper. Not
Few reasons
1. Cheaper. Not everyone has the time to get an 40k for a shield when you just get the recipes for free.
2. Bombers and Gunners. Sometimes they want a piercing shield that doesn't slap them in the face with a SWORD damage bonus.
3. Hipsterness. Ya.
Tue, 04/24/2012 - 05:33
#42
Not very hipster since its
Not very hipster since its probably the second or third most common shield. If they want hipster they'd get Darkfang.
Tue, 04/24/2012 - 05:38
#43
@Ndogten
Royal Jelly Shield is technically cheaper since you can get the 3* for free, and has more pierce defense than Aegis…
Tue, 04/24/2012 - 06:31
#44
^Ooh.
That's a good point.
Okay, so maybe there is no reason to use Aegis beyond aesthetics.
Tue, 04/24/2012 - 07:00
#45
It's all a matter of preference.
Aegis has more defense than BTS. The medium attack damage bonus is what compensates BTS for it's lower defense, and it's a shield meant to be used by players who prefer swords.
To tl;dr this entire thread, scroll up to post #10 made by Procorus.
Tue, 04/24/2012 - 07:25
#46
@derpules
They don't give you the rock and royal jelly shield recipes for free, though.
Tue, 04/24/2012 - 07:46
#47
post #10 definitely
"To tl;dr this entire thread, scroll up to post #10 made by Procorus."
I totally agree. I don't understand why this thread keeps going in circles. A rational knight who never uses swords will forgo BTS in favor of a shield that offers more defense. You don't even need to consider cost, aesthetics, or this bizarre "skillful players dislike good equipment" idea.
Tue, 04/24/2012 - 07:58
#48
> Because in Spiral Knights
> Because in Spiral Knights SKILLS > GEAR. And the difference between those two shields is so small that it's rather a matter of aesthetics preference which one you take. If you are skilled player you can beat any level with any of those shields. If you are not skilled enough you will fail no matter which shield you take.
...
No. You'd think so, but a "truly skilled player" would also make the best selections when it comes to gear for the task at hand.
Tue, 04/24/2012 - 08:34
#49
@ fradow, oh yeah, although I
@ fradow, oh yeah, although I hate all the other shields, because no shields look round (except for Jelly shield, duh)
about COA, it's half good and bad. I mean, my friend COA breaks on roarmulus laser. Plus, it doesn't have the additional two swords
Tue, 04/24/2012 - 14:54
#50
> No. You'd think so, but a
> No. You'd think so, but a "truly skilled player" would also make the best selections when it comes to gear for the task at hand.
To be a truly skilled player, you also have to be able to deal with mostly everything that can come at you with whatever you've got, which is (sometimes, coincidentally) in my eyes, not the best gear.
Because maybe some people don't exclusively use swords and they prefer a cheaper, better shield instead of a useless damage bonus?